Duke Greene

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Feb 6, 2018
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That's something I'd like to praise about Hollow, the protagonist there was definitely the best one, even in comparison to Theo in Gaia.
I'm of the opinion that Leon is one of the worst Venus Blood protagonists, especially in the Chaos route. He's little more than a thug who relies on Anora's power to do most of the corruption.
That being said, Venus Blood has a huge bias for Law since Abyss and Gaia is one of the games where it really shows. The only one I'd say favors Law even more would be Lagoon.
 
Dec 1, 2021
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I'm of the opinion that Leon is one of the worst Venus Blood protagonists, especially in the Chaos route. He's little more than a thug who relies on Anora's power to do most of the corruption.
That being said, Venus Blood has a huge bias for Law since Abyss and Gaia is one of the games where it really shows. The only one I'd say favors Law even more would be Lagoon.
This whole talk about the chaos/law is giving me Vietnam flashbacks to Shin Megami Tensei and all the crazy-ass discussions I had with people about it.
But I guess in that series, the problem was the opposite of this one, in SMT the law route is always the worst.

Anyway, I did not play those two venus blood games you mention, that's probably because I don't understand Japanese and I refuse to use machine translations though.
 

Iexist

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Jul 20, 2018
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I heavily disagree with a bunch of what Duke Greene said and to me it feels like they read a completely different story from what I read if they got to that opinion when it comes to Hollow... However, at this point, we're veering way too much into subjective assessments and preferences.

The only objective assessment we can make, when it comes to Gaia's storyline specifically, is that Theo's turn to Chaos is way too sudden and not well built up enough.

I'm also sure we can all agree that it feels stupid that none of the Mikos or their attendants side with him even when you have them at 99 Training with a bunch of events and affection under their belt. Like. I get Milia sticking to her guns no matter what. She's absolutely a paragon more than any of the others. However, I could see Tomoe and Tamamo just sticking with Theo for the dick, same with Shigure. Though, again, this is more of a preference thing rather than anything objective.

Moving on though, still a pretty good story compared to a lot of stuff, even some non-H media has weaker stories than a lot of VB...

In any case...

kidlat's comments about Commanders reminded me about some of my musings on them.

For one, I disagree that Lucretia is useless as a Commander. With a title, she can have maxed Self-D barrier, which is pretty damn valuable, especially if you ever intend to go through True Law on higher difficulties, but there are points in the Chaos run where you run into some pretty annoying Self-D stuff too. Hell, on higher difficulties, those damn Ninjas from Takamagahara can hit pretty hard when they die and force you to heal, simply because Self-D ignores defense. Absolute Cure is never wasted. Her Division Heal isn't bad. Amplification is not bad to boost healing and excellent on any divisions with a heavy emphasis on end of turn damage. She's not perfect, but all in all, you can definitely fit her into a bunch of places in a pinch and she'll be useful.

Shigure on the other hand I agree that she's terribly weak. You can, theoretically, dogpile a bunch of top tier offensive items on her because she has a Two Hander and a One Hander as her gear, but, I don't think you can do that in any way that won't result in her self-destructing against anything with decent counter on them. Or Dimensional Slash... but Dimensional Slash is always its own sort of problem that can only really be solved with a ton of Evade, maybe Flank Null and prayers that the Devs weren't too sadistic and didn't put something like 50+ Flank attack on a 75 Dimension Slash Units with who knows what else.

She's still serviceable in the lower difficulties... but you're gonna replace her fast tbh unless, for some reason, you want to run a complete Ice team or something...

Orte is meh. In theory, if you could somehow max her Parry and Evade, you COULD turn her into a strong unit that can face off even against Dimension slashers, but, I don't think you can do that AND give her enough offensive stats for the effort to be worth it. Not to mention that you'd need Day Attuned for her if you want to use her at any time. I'd say she's worse than Shigure tbh... Having Double Claws isn't helping her case. I mean, sure, you could, I dunno, drop two Agaterams on her if you really don't have anything better to do with T9 claws and use her as an Evade/Parry tank that still does some damage... but I'd say there are better combinations to work with for various divisions.

Speaking of Jank units though...

I wonder what the hell people were smoking when they came up with Synthetic Tamamo? Like. Sure, IF she's the Leader and IF she's facing an ideal composition of enemies, she can Sap 198... but that only works on the Division directly faced by the division she's in, and the Man boost is... Uh... Yeah. Not sure if you can build around that. Maybe with Heretic Theo as a Damage Dealer and/or Sweeper? Tentacle Rider for Surround Null, more Man Boost, Spell Barrier and Maybe some Self-D barrier? You could reach 100 Spell Barrier with a Vanaheim... and 95 Self-D with some titles and that one beast thing... Hm... Maybe throw in Belios too? Blah. Seems needlessly convoluted overall in terms of using this unit...

I wish I knew what they were thinking when they made this unit.... Aside from memes with the number 6 literally everywhere...
 

kidlat020

Active Member
Jul 5, 2017
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For one, I disagree that Lucretia is useless as a Commander. With a title, she can have maxed Self-D barrier, which is pretty damn valuable, especially if you ever intend to go through True Law on higher difficulties, but there are points in the Chaos run where you run into some pretty annoying Self-D stuff too. Hell, on higher difficulties, those damn Ninjas from Takamagahara can hit pretty hard when they die and force you to heal, simply because Self-D ignores defense. Absolute Cure is never wasted. Her Division Heal isn't bad. Amplification is not bad to boost healing and excellent on any divisions with a heavy emphasis on end of turn damage. She's not perfect, but all in all, you can definitely fit her into a bunch of places in a pinch and she'll be useful.

Shigure on the other hand I agree that she's terribly weak. You can, theoretically, dogpile a bunch of top tier offensive items on her because she has a Two Hander and a One Hander as her gear, but, I don't think you can do that in any way that won't result in her self-destructing against anything with decent counter on them. Or Dimensional Slash... but Dimensional Slash is always its own sort of problem that can only really be solved with a ton of Evade, maybe Flank Null and prayers that the Devs weren't too sadistic and didn't put something like 50+ Flank attack on a 75 Dimension Slash Units with who knows what else.

She's still serviceable in the lower difficulties... but you're gonna replace her fast tbh unless, for some reason, you want to run a complete Ice team or something...

Orte is meh. In theory, if you could somehow max her Parry and Evade, you COULD turn her into a strong unit that can face off even against Dimension slashers, but, I don't think you can do that AND give her enough offensive stats for the effort to be worth it. Not to mention that you'd need Day Attuned for her if you want to use her at any time. I'd say she's worse than Shigure tbh... Having Double Claws isn't helping her case. I mean, sure, you could, I dunno, drop two Agaterams on her if you really don't have anything better to do with T9 claws and use her as an Evade/Parry tank that still does some damage... but I'd say there are better combinations to work with for various divisions.
and therein lies the problem with lucretia doesn't it? since we're both talking of mid-game where self-D matters, but she also matters just as much in the treasure hunt team. so its either commit to treasure hunt or use her as a support/heal.

but it really doesn't take too much brain power to ultimately decide to place her in treasure hunt. simply because there are far better dps-ers and support than her. if she's gonna be stuck in treasure team then those support skills may as well never existed.

by the time late-end game rolls in? I don't even know never reached this far in the game. the goddamn rng drop made me drop this game entirely. see my review on why the gameplay for this SUCKS. and yes, even with the help of the UI mod.
 

Nemo de Nemo

Member
Jul 30, 2020
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Compare this to HOLLOW, where progressing past a certain point on training means you are locked out of further mingle progression (and vice versa). I can't remember because it's been too long, but I think FRONTIER was like that as well.
In Frontier, a goddess is locked out of mingle at 0 divinity (at which point they turn dark) and locked out of training at 100 mingle (they were saved by the power of Loki's love ^u^)

I'm of the opinion that Leon is one of the worst Venus Blood protagonists, especially in the Chaos route. He's little more than a thug who relies on Anora's power to do most of the corruption.
That being said, Venus Blood has a huge bias for Law since Abyss and Gaia is one of the games where it really shows. The only one I'd say favors Law even more would be Lagoon.
Have you played other VB games other than Gaia, Hollow, and Frontier? Asking for references sake as I only have Loki and Leon to judge off of.
Also it fits for Leon to be specialized in pure power as his gift and disposition are well suited to the role while Anora's gift and physical build forces her into a supportive role to complement Leon's ambitions in battle and strategy. I won't deny that Leon is quite reliant on Anora to do most of the corruption, but said corruption is integral to both their goals on conquest. Also, pretty sure Leon is awful at complex magic utilization considering his actions when in a vacuum (seperated from Anora, basically).

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Is there a specific route order I should play Gaia in? Law/Chaos first or does it not matter much in this game/story?
 
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Iexist

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Jul 20, 2018
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and therein lies the problem with lucretia doesn't it? since we're both talking of mid-game where self-D matters, but she also matters just as much in the treasure hunt team. so its either commit to treasure hunt or use her as a support/heal.

but it really doesn't take too much brain power to ultimately decide to place her in treasure hunt. simply because there are far better dps-ers and support than her. if she's gonna be stuck in treasure team then those support skills may as well never existed.

by the time late-end game rolls in? I don't even know never reached this far in the game. the goddamn rng drop made me drop this game entirely. see my review on why the gameplay for this SUCKS. and yes, even with the help of the UI mod.
Uh wut...? Self-D matters all the time. What are you on about? It doesn't matter in all phases of the game, but in the late stages in Law, like, 30% of the divisions you face have some measure of Self Destruct. And that's just on Easy. Hell, when you go into the Phoenix missions, there's these 'perfected embryos' that have Self-D 300. That means they do 3 times their health in damage... and that's only if they don't have Max Power Attack too... which you can bet your ass they will in the higher difficulties, along with who knows what else.

Chaos too also has Self-D, but less of it than Law, but there's some nasty warp beasts in some stages with it.

Pretty sure the non-story mode will have it too in enough amounts to make you seriously regret not building it up in all of your main divisions, if not all divisions period, because in Gaia, it's much, MUCH harder to control which enemies will run into which troops. Which means it's significantly more difficult to ensure that just the prepped divisions run into some murder-blend division that will take yours down with it.

You get 4 Commanders that can easily max Self-D Barrier, and one of them is Crimson Dress Milia (who has it by default), which can be janky to use because of how she's set-up. Another is one of the Vanilla special units, but she needs T9 and T10 gear to reach her full potential. This includes Lucy. There's then... hm... ~4 units-ish that can reach Max Self-D Barrier easily without jumping through massive hoops? About that many I think. I'd have to check. Considering that if you want to tackle Despair B5, you'll likely want all of your divisions to be invulnerable to the N00b killer problems, Lucretia is gonna have quite a bit of staying power in some division or another. Even if you don't use her all the time, you'll definitely want to swap her in when those monsters that can one-shot anything when they die start popping out.

Sure, you have the option of, I dunno, having 50-ish Self-D barrier on a division that also has 50-ish Godly Resist on all attacker units... but that's gonna be hard to make fly and you'll still be taking damage because these get added multiplicatively. Your goal in division building is to ensure you take as little damage as possible while hurting the enemy as much as possible. With the exception of stall divisions of course. I suppose you can try to skip-out on Self-D on those ones.

As for Treasure Hunting... I don't know why you'd bother using Lucretia there when there are a lot more units with better TH that can be built up. Especially since there's no difficulty requirement for unlocking Arcana, so you can literally unlock ALL Arcanas on Easy, and then build up the ultimate TH division... which will not include Lucretia because she can't reach high enough. Might include Swimsuit Mary... but I'm not sure how the min-maxing looks there since 2-H weapons don't have any with TH on it... but she does get a wooping 56 with her title which can be raised to 68 with that one T8 robe. After that, you obviously want Shamash, Pandora, Luna, Captain Maiden and Dreaming Onikage.

Sure, this division dies if anything sneezes at it... but at the same time, it has enough TH on it to unlock up to Tier 11 on Easy. I tested it. Got T11 ore to drop on the Law final boss (It's about 3/15 chance, from my testing, but I'm not gonna re-run that fight over and over more than this to see the exact odds... Even if it only takes a few seconds, most of which is clicking through the battle banter. XD). T12 you can cheese with Keys.

Now... Legitimately FARMING for all of this stuff would be hell anyway. It'd work better on Normal, possibly even hard if you can optimize a Division enough to act as baby-sitter even against overwhelming odds... and even then, you'd absolutely have to sweep whatever's in front of the TH division with extreme prejudice.

Eventually, it'll just get tedious, much like a lot of stuff... which is why, much like in Hollow, I honestly, totally, absolutely recommend that once you unlock the ores, regardless of what method you used to do so... that you just cheat the ore amounts and get the gear like that. The grind is NOT worth it. It wasn't worth it in Hollow. It's not worth it in Gaia. It will never be worth it in any VB game ever... but it will likely always be in all of them until the ends of time because this sort of needless grind is a thing in Asian culture and some people legitimately enjoy it.

The sheer Grind you need to get all the gear is absolutely one of the worst aspects of Venus Blood, though I personally don't feel like it detracts that much from the game. Hell. Gaia is actually better than Hollow in some aspects, if only because it lets you unlock 99% of the stuff on any difficulty. So you don't have to do stuff like go to Berzerk 5 for unit X, go to Thanatos for Unit Y, must be this difficulty at the minimum to have enough Law+Chaos points to unlock the last Arcana... etc. Getting all the good shit in Hollow was much more tedious... and then you don't have as much stuff to look forward too in terms of using said good stuff.

If not for the Labyrinth Reset, I'd likely have loved the game just as much as Hollow tbh. Well, maybe a little less. Leon and Anora made for a much cooler couple, and Julia was and is best girl I don't care what anyone else says. Dragon Waifu is best waifu. Also, Theo smokes, which reduces his cool factor by a huge amounts of points for me.
 
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Duke Greene

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Feb 6, 2018
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Have you played other VB games other than Gaia, Hollow, and Frontier? Asking for references sake as I only have Loki and Leon to judge off of.
Most of them except Savior and Ragnarok iirc. I did start playing Ragnarok but dropped it around the middle. As a sequel it kinda annoyed me. I'm not especially fond of Gaia either, mind you.
Also it fits for Leon to be specialized in pure power as his gift and disposition are well suited to the role while Anora's gift and physical build forces her into a supportive role to complement Leon's ambitions in battle and strategy. I won't deny that Leon is quite reliant on Anora to do most of the corruption, but said corruption is integral to both their goals on conquest.
Anora is not simply a support though, she's the lynchpin. Without her Leonhardt would be nothing. He can't even corrupt the other girls to his side without her, something every single other VB protagonist can do. That being said, my disaste for mind control in general (it always feels like cheating to me) probably colors my view :HideThePain:

I don't want to derail this thread more but I'll add that I agree with Iexist that Gaia has one of the weakest Chaos routes.
 
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Blessed be whoever made the guides for this game, they are so clear and easy to understand that I wish I had found one like this for Frontier. I basically had to stumble through the different endings of that game.
 
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Iexist

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Jul 20, 2018
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Blessed be whoever made the guides for this game, they are so clear and easy to understand that I wish I had found one like this for Frontier. I basically had to stumble through the different endings of that game.
Yeeeeah... The lack of a solid story guide is the other reason why I'm unlikely to go back to give Frontier another chance. I just don't have that kind of time to spend on any one game.

Even though I still ended up spending way too many hours on Hollow... and now Gaia... anyway. XD

Screwing around with Divisions is just fun... even if it's less fun in Gaia because of the lower numbers and the fact that the majority of the battles are encounter battles.
 

doctahmasta

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Oct 9, 2021
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I just found one thing I really don't like about Gaia: The limit for unit number. No matter how, you can only have 144 units I think? That might seem a lot, but it really screws your process of collecting the key of destiny exclusive character. In Hollow, you can recruit all the common one so that whenever you use key of destiny, you will always get the extra characters.

In Gaia, you need to save scum that shit.
 

DuniX

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Dec 20, 2016
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I just found one thing I really don't like about Gaia: The limit for unit number. No matter how, you can only have 144 units I think? That might seem a lot, but it really screws your process of collecting the key of destiny exclusive character. In Hollow, you can recruit all the common one so that whenever you use key of destiny, you will always get the extra characters.

In Gaia, you need to save scum that shit.
Can't you get them without a title?
 

Iexist

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Jul 20, 2018
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Can't you get them without a title?
The point he's trying to make is that in Hollow, you could recruit all of the fodder units yourself, which reduced the pool of key candidates considerably. As a result, you could use less keys to obtain the units you wanted, and just dismiss whatever it was that you didn't need, while re-recruiting the relevant units as needed for titles, though you could obviously use them and build loyalty first so you got the Triumph bonus too.

In Gaia, because of the extremely hard limit on units, it's impossible to do that sort of thing, because the pool of units is far too big.

Now, the thing is, this isn't entirely a bad thing, because units summoned through keys don't count towards the limit imposed by the egg slots, so that can be helpful at times. However, I am not aware of if they allow you to completely bypass the 144 limit or not.

Might be worth testing, but I'm not sure I can be assed to reach the needed values to unlock all of the visitors and then get to experimenting with keys. The whole "Rebuild your dungeon every damn run" thing is.... EXTREMELY tedious even with mass cheating to speed things up. Hollow's Infrastructure investment and the ability to make Infrastructure divisions that basically just sat there looking pretty and made income, was a very friendly system. I also don't remember what the heck Frontier had...
 

Nemo de Nemo

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Jul 30, 2020
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I also don't remember what the heck Frontier had...
Frontier's system for income was basically a group of 5 maps adjacent to each other. Each map had a collection of nodes and each node would house a building type. Your income would gradually increase as each story chapter needed you to take over these nodes until the enemy faction/s were destroyed. The player could also spend tool points (medalion money) to replace a building on a specific node. The easiest example would be replacing a forest node (level 1 tool point producer) with a store building (level 2 gold producer) or cathedral building (highest gold producer).
 

xxblaisexx

Newbie
Jul 25, 2018
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I'm still on very early game and have one question about Lucretia, why she have Bounty hunter 5 + 6 as comander if she can't attack? I know treasure hunt applys to the entire party, but bounty hunter it's only when that specific unit kill something, is there a why to make Lucretia deal dmg?
 

kidsadrzsd

Newbie
Jul 25, 2019
37
4
The point he's trying to make is that in Hollow, you could recruit all of the fodder units yourself, which reduced the pool of key candidates considerably. As a result, you could use less keys to obtain the units you wanted, and just dismiss whatever it was that you didn't need, while re-recruiting the relevant units as needed for titles, though you could obviously use them and build loyalty first so you got the Triumph bonus too.

In Gaia, because of the extremely hard limit on units, it's impossible to do that sort of thing, because the pool of units is far too big.

Now, the thing is, this isn't entirely a bad thing, because units summoned through keys don't count towards the limit imposed by the egg slots, so that can be helpful at times. However, I am not aware of if they allow you to completely bypass the 144 limit or not.

Might be worth testing, but I'm not sure I can be assed to reach the needed values to unlock all of the visitors and then get to experimenting with keys. The whole "Rebuild your dungeon every damn run" thing is.... EXTREMELY tedious even with mass cheating to speed things up. Hollow's Infrastructure investment and the ability to make Infrastructure divisions that basically just sat there looking pretty and made income, was a very friendly system. I also don't remember what the heck Frontier had...
i thinks key system in gaia is good, in previous game key seem to be useless.
Some unit can only be unlocked by using key.
 

doctahmasta

New Member
Oct 9, 2021
11
3
I'm still on very early game and have one question about Lucretia, why she have Bounty hunter 5 + 6 as comander if she can't attack? I know treasure hunt applys to the entire party, but bounty hunter it's only when that specific unit kill something, is there a why to make Lucretia deal dmg?
I think bounty hunter and treasure hunter effect applies to the whole team rather than the individual. One thing I kinda noticed is that the effect might not apply for multiple division battle, as in the only enemy team who will be affected by treasure hunt will be the one the treasure hunt team directly faces.
 
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