VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.4.0] [Ceolag]

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I mean im Kaija fan but I do agree with the people that dislike Kaija too. The Kaija haters have a valid reason to dislike her the minute she became our girlfriend even a small lie can sour a relationship depending on the person. The difference between them and me why I like Kaija is simply my personality and im a very understanding and forgiving person without those traits any normal person would probably not like Kaija and move onto a different LI tbh.

I'm still running a love path save. I don't like Kaija but I don't hate her either. I actually admire her loyalty to her cause. I think she made some poor decisions and deserves to suffer the consequences for those decisions like anyone.

I don't want her for my MC because she can't be loyal to him when her loyalty is to the Templars first. He will always be second and that is not a healthy relationship. How many times do we see divorce because one person is 'married to the job'. Usually men but more and more women these days. On the love path Kaija starts to show doubts about the Templars but at this stage in the story the Templars are still her first commitment.

 

[ThorinKing]

Its not something I thought about to be honest. My issue is not about Kaija's capability, or her gender, its about her motivations and actions. Your chasing a path and an attitude that doesn't exist with me at least. I can't speak for others.

I'm not saying it's everyone - but such a noxious reaction to the character generally speaks to this duality in the way many men look at things based upon what our roles are supposed to be, and while that isn't "make me a sammich then suck my dick before I slap you silly" misogyny, it is the form of it that tells us a woman killed in war is different than a man killed in war, or being torn up using force to defend yourself against a woman that you wouldn't hesitate to use against a man - our brains are just wired to be the protector and ass-kicker, not the protectee and the one that needs to be shielded. So, when those roles get turned on their heads, some react badly.

No, it may not be the only reason - you may just not like redheads, tats (less likely reasons - but there are some...) and, from your comments, the concept of any lie for any reason now causes you to just reject the deal and walk away rather than try to salvage it. One of (I think your) comments about a little lie to get laid was okay but this isn't that (paraphrase) struck me as inconsistent: to say one is okay, while the other is not doesn't really align - but that's me and my moral and ethical compass, and all of us have a slightly different "true north" based on our experiences.

 

[ThorinKing]

I don't fucking caring about their mission or organisation, if they wanna protect it they can do it away from MC's life.

You're right: they should have abandoned him and his sister in a forest rather than try to protect them from the evil of the world and keep them shielded from it for as long as they could. Shame on them for loving their children!

And, I guess anyone from a "machismo" culture sees anyone that has a basic ability to empathize and understand as "woke". How sad.

 

[Elduriel]

No, it may not be the only reason - you may just not like redheads, tats (less likely reasons - but there are some...) and, from your comments, the concept of any lie for any reason now causes you to just reject the deal and walk away rather than try to salvage it. One of (I think your) comments about a little lie to get laid was okay but this isn't that (paraphrase) struck me as inconsistent: to say one is okay, while the other is not doesn't really align - but that's me and my moral and ethical compass, and all of us have a slightly different "true north" based on our experiences.

oh come off it... yeah just one lie. She continuously lied to her boyfriend during their entire relationship when it came to her work, and more than that their entire relationship started off and was based on this lie. You don't do that to your partner and expect to "salvage" anything afterwards. She straight up tells you she'll be always first and foremost loyal to the Templars. So fuck her.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

No, it may not be the only reason - you may just not like redheads, tats (less likely reasons - but there are some...) and, from your comments, the concept of any lie for any reason now causes you to just reject the deal and walk away rather than try to salvage it. One of (I think your) comments about a little lie to get laid was okay but this isn't that (paraphrase) struck me as inconsistent: to say one is okay, while the other is not doesn't really align - but that's me and my moral and ethical compass, and all of us have a slightly different "true north" based on our experiences.

Chasing girls to get laid was 40 years ago when I was young and my morality was governed by my dick. Even then I knocked back more than I said yes too. I wasn't about screwing girlfriends or ex-girlfriends of friends or relatives. Sadly some off my friends and relatives were not so considerate towards me.

I didn't say my comment was okay, I was pointing out the difference between stupid things we do in life compared to deliberate actions that seriously fuck people up as in what Kaija did and what his parents did. It was never going to end well and they knew it but did it anyway.

I'm not comfortable with the timing of the MC picking up the girl in the bar and fucking her either when his relationship is still in the grey zone. I wouldn't do it in RL. Its not going to be given much air time because its an optional event and not part of the main story line. I didn't come across it until my third play through. Although I'm wondering if you will see that as some latent form of misogyny or some such thing.

Its been interesting but 2:30AM and time for me to get some sleep. Have fun.

 

[ThorinKing]

oh come off it... yeah just one lie. She continuously lied to her boyfriend during their entire relationship when it came to her work, and more than that their entire relationship started off and was based on this lie. You don't do that to your partner and expect to "salvage" anything afterwards. She straight up tells you she'll be always first and foremost loyal to the Templars. So fuck her.

 

[xapican]

I don't want her for my MC because she can't be loyal to him when her loyalty is to the Templars first. He will always be second and that is not a healthy relationship. How many times do we see divorce because one person is 'married to the job'. Usually men but more and more women these days. On the love path Kaija starts to show doubts about the Templars but at this stage in the story the Templars are still her first commitment.

Yes, you told us about your Love save path. And in my books, that speaks a lot about your nobility.
This is mainly the point were I blatantly fail, to look through your prisma, even more on the Love path, I like to be fair, to everybody, (what is a very difficult task) I might be not so understanding nor forgiving as Dessolos describe himself.
on the Love path you can see that Kaijas prioritys start to sway.
In my way to view the world, I know that priorities change, and if they don't well..., blessings with cosmic "love" and the paths separate, and just this way is that on the "Love path" makes me give her a second chance, with all the caution given of course.
In my contemplations, I also take into account tha Kaija opend up as It was clear that MC, were introduced to the secrets of the order, and she did this only because she had Backup, in this, (I suspect that Hilda, and Linnae decided to take him on board due to the situation)
The other thing what picks my interest is that both, "father and mother" are High ranked Knight Templars, wouldn't be surprised that the propsal from the father towards Kaija, were to give his "wive" a bit more of air Hilda, was the one who protected both, MC and Jess as they were little childs, and as they started to grow up and discovering their own path, they needed an extra "Bodyguard".

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Yes, you told us about your Love save path. And in my books, that speaks a lot about your nobility.
This is mainly the point were I blatantly fail, to look through your prisma, even more on the Love path, I like to be fair, to everybody, (what is a very difficult task) I might be not so understanding nor forgiving as Dessolos describe himself.
on the Love path you can see that Kaijas prioritys start to sway.
In my way to view the world, I know that priorities change, and if they don't well..., blessings with cosmic "love" and the paths separate, and just this way is that on the "Love path" makes me give her a second chance, with all the caution given of course.
In my contemplations, I also take into account tha Kaija opend up as It was clear that MC, were introduced to the secrets of the order, and she did this only because she had Backup, in this, (I suspect that Hilda, and Linnae decided to take him on board due to the situation)
The other thing what picks my interest is that both, "father and mother" are High ranked Knight Templars, wouldn't be surprised that the propsal from the father towards Kaija, were to give his "wive" a bit more of air Hilda, was the one who protected both, MC and Jess as they were little childs, and as they started to grow up and discovering their own path, they needed an extra "Bodyguard".

I wasn't going to. I gave it some serious thought (a bit too much for a game lol). I'm willing to cut Kaija enough slack to see if she can redeem herself as have other LIs in similar situations in other games. I see value in following her love path. I don't always follow every LI path in games, just the ones I find interesting enough I want to know more or what happens with them.

The love path is particularly interesting because we see Kaija's trust of the Templars waiver. The trust is still in place but its a little shaken. How will that play out?

How will Ceolag bring the couple back together despite the rift between them. I think the MC is a fool if he does, but I'm interested enough to want to know what will happen.

Kaija is still an interesting character, I don't have to like her to recognise that. Interesting does not have to equal 'liking' a character.

A lot about this game fascinates me, moral questions aside. Ceolag has a done a fantastic job world building and developing characters. Kaija is controversial but look at the attention she has generated. Its good work. I'd be over the moon to create a character that generates as much attention as Kaija.

Or I could just need more sleep

 

[Maviarab]

I wasn't going to. I gave it some serious thought (a bit too much for a game lol). I'm willing to cut Kaija enough slack to see if she can redeem herself as have other LIs in similar situations in other games. I see value in following her love path. I don't always follow every LI path in games, just the ones I find interesting enough I want to know more or what happens with them.

The love path is particularly interesting because we see Kaija's trust of the Templars waiver. The trust is still in place but its a little shaken. How will that play out?

How will Ceolag bring the couple back together despite the rift between them. I think the MC is a fool if he does, but I'm interested enough to want to know what will happen.

Kaija is still an interesting character, I don't have to like her to recognise that. Interesting does not have to equal 'liking' a character.

A lot about this game fascinates me, moral questions aside. Ceolag has a done a fantastic job world building and developing characters. Kaija is controversial but look at the attention she has generated. Its good work. I'd be over the moon to create a character that generates as much attention as Kaija.

Or I could just need more sleep

Eveything you said here I agree with. Despite my hate for her, I also have a love path for for the same reasons, it's interesting and curious to see where it will go.

That aside, for everyone eho does no follow every path, you also learn a little more too on her path, so worth doing it for lore/story points alone if no other reason.

 

[nitkonikic]

I wasn't going to. I gave it some serious thought (a bit too much for a game lol). I'm willing to cut Kaija enough slack to see if she can redeem herself as have other LIs in similar situations in other games. I see value in following her love path. I don't always follow every LI path in games, just the ones I find interesting enough I want to know more or what happens with them.

The love path is particularly interesting because we see Kaija's trust of the Templars waiver. The trust is still in place but its a little shaken. How will that play out?

How will Ceolag bring the couple back together despite the rift between them. I think the MC is a fool if he does, but I'm interested enough to want to know what will happen.

Kaija is still an interesting character, I don't have to like her to recognise that. Interesting does not have to equal 'liking' a character.

A lot about this game fascinates me, moral questions aside. Ceolag has a done a fantastic job world building and developing characters. Kaija is controversial but look at the attention she has generated. Its good work. I'd be over the moon to create a character that generates as much attention as Kaija.

Or I could just need more sleep

Running "love" path with Kaija is well worth it. Granted, I am running it more as a "actual friend" route that has very high points score, but MC won't engage in any physical activities with her (handholding is fine, kissing and whatever else happens is not).

Nice to see how her character develops on that route, but also want to see how she ultimately reacts once MC sides with Elves, disrespects Templars, or ends with another girl.

I don't like Kaija. At all. She doesn't deserve forgiveness, but skipping her route would exclude some of the work Ceolag does, and I quite like what he's doing, so might as well run it.

 

[Dessolos]

handholding is fine

this part made me and Joshy excited

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

this part made me and Joshy excited

You two kids need a room

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Running "love" path with Kaija is well worth it. Granted, I am running it more as a "actual friend" route that has very high points score, but MC won't engage in any physical activities with her (handholding is fine, kissing and whatever else happens is not).

Nice to see how her character develops on that route, but also want to see how she ultimately reacts once MC sides with Elves, disrespects Templars, or ends with another girl.

I don't like Kaija. At all. She doesn't deserve forgiveness, but skipping her route would exclude some of the work Ceolag does, and I quite like what he's doing, so might as well run it.

And I have love path for more petty reasons. I expect a point in the game we can double-cross Templars, so I play Kaija love path as my main one. Also I try to be good with all the Templars, as much as possible. Training with Kaija and sword training with Linnae is a must too. I don't even choose maybe paths, all the way in for Kaija. Only missing points coming from when Fiona path crosses theirs. When the time comes and hopefully Ceolag will put an option, I will make MC betray all of them. Let them taste their own medicine.

 

[Elduriel]

And I have love path for more petty reasons. I expect a point in the game we can double-cross Templars, so I play Kaija love path as my main one. Also I try to be good with all the Templars, as much as possible. Training with Kaija and sword training with Linnae is a must too. I don't even choose maybe paths, all the way in for Kaija. Only missing points coming from when Fiona path crosses theirs. When the time comes and hopefully Ceolag will put an option, I will make MC betray all of them. Let them taste their own medicine.

I like it. While I'm not a fan of her either, I also have that path with her just to see what happens.

 

[Maviarab]

And I have love path for more petty reasons. I expect a point in the game we can double-cross Templars, so I play Kaija love path as my main one. Also I try to be good with all the Templars, as much as possible. Training with Kaija and sword training with Linnae is a must too. I don't even choose maybe paths, all the way in for Kaija. Only missing points coming from when Fiona path crosses theirs. When the time comes and hopefully Ceolag will put an option, I will make MC betray all of them. Let them taste their own medicine.

I like it. While I'm not a fan of her either, I also have that path with her just to see what happens.

 

[NeroZee]

She is dead. The blonde woman who helped Alex killed her.

I guess i must have missed it, since i dont remember reading about it.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I like it. While I'm not a fan of her either, I also have that path with her just to see what happens.

View attachment 3472501

 

[xapican]

I guess i must have missed it, since i dont remember reading about it.

In the scene where Medb makes her entrance, into the Templar council, to deliver the ultimatum, before she leaves the Blonde (Karina) tells it.

 

[NeroZee]

In the scene where Medb makes her entrance, into the Templar council, to deliver the ultimatum, before she leaves the Blonde (Karina) tells it.

Oh thanks, a shame kinda liked her design and also biased towards succubi, RIP.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Oh thanks, a shame kinda liked her desigh and also biased towards succubi, RIP.

There are a lot where she comes from no worries.