Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

[Thundorn]

Understandably this is an emotive topic for some, but i feel that arguing over the semantics is not especially constructive

Regardless of where things began, what morals are at play and what the catalyst was, this is the situation that we find ourselves in. Games which are purely incest driven are bound to draw attention, particularly if they make no effort to conceal the "forbidden" content of the game.

Rather like facebook have changed certain aspects of their community guidelines over the years, and we have all had to either adjust or stop using it, this is precisely what we must do with Patreon. I am always baffled by people who post things onto platforms like facebook which they know they shouldn't, and then go on a rant when they get a temporary ban for it.

As @darthseduction mentioned a few posts back, it doesn't take a great deal of time or effort to "clean" your patreon so that if you get reviewed, you will come out of it ok.

We all love a good rant. It is cathartic. But at the end of the day, if we want to continue to use Patreon and enjoy the facilities that it provides as well as its considerable earning potential, we have to play by their rules. If your game has a bit of incest in it, put that content in a patch that is only available to people who choose to download it from elsewhere.

 

[ASLPro3D]

Understandably this is an emotive topic for some, but i feel that arguing over the semantics is not especially constructive

Regardless of where things began, what morals are at play and what the catalyst was, this is the situation that we find ourselves in. Games which are purely incest driven are bound to draw attention, particularly if they make no effort to conceal the "forbidden" content of the game.

Rather like facebook have changed certain aspects of their community guidelines over the years, and we have all had to either adjust or stop using it, this is precisely what we must do with Patreon. I am always baffled by people who post things onto platforms like facebook which they know they shouldn't, and then go on a rant when they get a temporary ban for it.

As @darthseduction mentioned a few posts back, it doesn't take a great deal of time or effort to "clean" your patreon so that if you get reviewed, you will come out of it ok.

We all love a good rant. It is cathartic. But at the end of the day, if we want to continue to use Patreon and enjoy the facilities that it provides as well as its considerable earning potential, we have to play by their rules. If your game has a bit of incest in it, put that content in a patch that is only available to people who choose to download it from elsewhere.

So well said!

As I said earlier, it was bound to happen, they warned people against the content and they had time to make changes... this really shouldn't have been much a shock.

 

[miserab]

There seems to be a whole lot of games that feature incest on Patreon. Is it a kink that is so popular you basically have to have it in your adult game to make money there?

 

[User_215882]

Not necessarily. It's just the easiest taboo to mod. For me, I would back a game that has a decent story, good art, and a good dev that is consistent and easy to communicate with. You don't need any one fetish to make it. You just need the drive to continue on even if you're not getting that much support.

 

[ASLPro3D]

Not necessarily. It's just the easiest taboo to mod. For me, I would back a game that has a decent story, good art, and a good dev that is consistent and easy to communicate with. You don't need any one fetish to make it. You just need the drive to continue on even if you're not getting that much support.

Exactly!

 

[Bueno]

I don't understand why my landlady is so upset about me banging my roomie.

 

[User_215882]

Because she propably set up some clause that forbids any hanky panky between roommates. I mean my land lady hates it when I hold orgies, but she never told me I couldn't.

 

[DSSAlex]

She has a responsibility to create a safe environment for her lodgers. Banging her and all of her tenants that look suspiciously similar will inevitably cause uncontrollable drama. It's a bad look.

 

[RomanHume]

Our team is new to the whole Patreon model. We went that route when deciding to put a project together because it was so well established by our predecessors.

Reading about all of the trouble Mr. Dots is going through, I am getting the impression that Patreon is the only game in town for this type of structure and that baffles me.

Our team has mostly backgrounds in data science, so most of programming knowledge is rooted in statistics, C++ and R. We only know the very basics when it comes to web design. But how hard would it be really for someone to create a Patreon replacement for adult game devs? Just curious.

 

[User_215882]

I don't think it's hard. I think everyone is thinking about it and not doing it. I don't know the first thing about creating a website, how to set up PayPal (no one is going to use their actual CC for porn), and then getting the bigger devs to transition over. Everyone is talking and no one is doing. Personally I think this would be a golden opportunity for a porn website like Brazzers or pornhub to create a patreon like sub page for adult games.

 

[Barioz]

Because she propably set up some clause that forbids any hanky panky between roommates. I mean my land lady hates it when I hold orgies, but she never told me I couldn't.

That's why you set up a roommate agreement. Sheldon and Leonard did it and look how well everything goes... :biggrin:

 

[RomanHume]

I don't think it's hard. I think everyone is thinking about it and not doing it. I don't know the first thing about creating a website, how to set up PayPal (no one is going to use their actual CC for porn), and then getting the bigger devs to transition over. Everyone is talking and no one is doing. Personally I think this would be a golden opportunity for a porn website like Brazzers or pornhub to create a patreon like sub page for adult games.

I didn't know if maybe the cost of capital for the server capacity was prohibitive or if it was just the technicals.

 

[DSSAlex]

I don't think it's hard. I think everyone is thinking about it and not doing it. I don't know the first thing about creating a website, how to set up PayPal (no one is going to use their actual CC for porn), and then getting the bigger devs to transition over. Everyone is talking and no one is doing. Personally I think this would be a golden opportunity for a porn website like Brazzers or pornhub to create a patreon like sub page for adult games.

It's not a technical challenge. It's a cultural one (and the problems of processing payments/paying vendors).
Setting up your own website and adding a subscription offer isn't super hard but you're not likely to get many takers all on your lonesome. And without a shitload of transactions the fees will not be great.
There's a few websites that are sort of Patreon-alikes but thus far they seem to only reach out to far right wing YouTube people who were kicked off Patreon. That makes them feel sketchy. I wouldn't feel super great with those guys having my banking details.
With Brazzers or PornHub I'd be able to trust them. And if at launch they had picked up Dark Silver and MrDots as their flagships that would go a long way toward attracting enough audience to sustain their growth.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Our team is new to the whole Patreon model. We went that route when deciding to put a project together because it was so well established by our predecessors.

Reading about all of the trouble Mr. Dots is going through, I am getting the impression that Patreon is the only game in town for this type of structure and that baffles me.

Our team has mostly backgrounds in data science, so most of programming knowledge is rooted in statistics, C++ and R. We only know the very basics when it comes to web design. But how hard would it be really for someone to create a Patreon replacement for adult game devs? Just curious.

Maker support is out there. Dots can't use it because stripe is unavailable in his area. There are other sites as well. One is named for fur fetish content, found it either in this thread or the patreon alternative one, but seems to be made because if the censorship and welcomes all comers.

Patreon isn't the only game, it's simply the most well established. The folly of our market system is that we as consumers don't like change, so we go with what's comfortable. That and the ability to turn a profit at a lower price is why the bigger companies are able to shut out any real competition.

 

[Hypothetical]

I didn't know if maybe the cost of capital for the server capacity was prohibitive or if it was just the technicals.

The basic problem is creating a platform that's resilient to the problems that arise when a lot of people think what you're doing is objectionable, immoral, or disgusting. How do you deal with financial institutions dropping you or changing requirements? How do you deal with hostile media coverage that encourages the public to apply pressure to business partners and infrastructure providers? How do you deal with the fact that the stuff you're enabling may be legal in some jurisdictions but not others?

The problems are actually most similar to those facing dissident political movements, which is why Hatreon regularly comes up in these discussions, but I wouldn't count on it being around long term. The folks behind it are trying to make a political statement, not a business.

If you're just trying to make a general Patreon alternative, I don't think you'll have much luck. There's already Patreon, there's soon to be Drip, and the game is theirs to lose. If you're trying to make a Patreon alternative centered around unpopular stuff and/or porn, I don't think you'll have much luck either. You'll have way more problems to deal with of all sorts than Patreon, and I suspect the money to be had isn't that much. The fact that sites like this one exist is a testament to the fact that only a tiny fraction of the people interested in what you're selling are willing to pay for it. If the platform only gets a tiny cut of that... well, that isn't much money.

 

[DarthSeduction]

The basic problem is creating a platform that's resilient to the problems that arise when a lot of people think what you're doing is objectionable, immoral, or disgusting. How do you deal with financial institutions dropping you or changing requirements? How do you deal with hostile media coverage that encourages the public to apply pressure to business partners and infrastructure providers? How do you deal with the fact that the stuff you're enabling may be legal in some jurisdictions but not others?

The problems are actually most similar to those facing dissident political movements, which is why Hatreon regularly comes up in these discussions, but I wouldn't count on it being around long term. The folks behind it are trying to make a political statement, not a business.

If you're just trying to make a general Patreon alternative, I don't think you'll have much luck. There's already Patreon, there's soon to be Drip, and the game is theirs to lose. If you're trying to make a Patreon alternative centered around unpopular stuff and/or porn, I don't think you'll have much luck either. You'll have way more problems to deal with of all sorts than Patreon, and I suspect the money to be had isn't that much. The fact that sites like this one exist is a testament to the fact that only a tiny fraction of the people interested in what you're selling are willing to pay for it. If the platform only gets a tiny cut of that... well, that isn't much money.

Adult content is 20% of Patreon's bottom line. So actually, at 1/5 of their earnings, I'd say plenty of people are willing to pay for it, and it is plenty of money.The problem isn't earning money on an alternative platform its convincing people to trust you, the new guy, when Patreon already exists. To put it in perspective, you have to think about being a small business owner in a 1 walmart town. Do you try to compete with walmart directly? Or do you offer something walmart doesn't? Put simply its not possible to compete directly with walmart, They'll operate at a loss until you're out of business. So what you do is offer something they don't.

In the case of Patreon, you offer a platform that is free of censorship, and you find a funding mechanism that makes that possible. I hate to say it but there is one, and I hate that it is this, but cryptocurrency doesn't give a rats ass. Its largely untraced and available to be purchased and used as you see fit. It would make it possible to avoid the issue of High Risk as well. You don't have to show your wife what you bought with the bitcoin, so all she knows is that you bought bitcoin. It wouldn't be as popular as Paypal, there are more steps involved, but it would allow anonymity, not show up on your shared credit card as whatever smut you were buying, and it would allow the creators to create whatever they want.

 

[Thundorn]

Incest is fairly low hanging fruit in terms of game content because it is simple. All you have to do is rename a character from Janice to Mom and suddenly any sexual interaction seems much hotter because it is taboo. Patreon has said that it doesn't have a problem with incest per-se, so long as it is justifiable within the story, they site Game of thrones as an example of this.

The problem with trying to run your own Patreon alternative isn't the mechanics of it. Using wordpress you could knock one up in an afternoon for very little expense, but imagine having to moderate thousands of profiles, and to have to make consistent and fair decisions about whether or not someone is adding content that is acceptable.

Advertising your site as "no censorship, anything goes" will not just attract fetish devs, it will also attract ********** and other things which will quickly land you in Jail if you don't deal with it in a responsible and timely fashion.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Incest is fairly low hanging fruit in terms of game content because it is simple. All you have to do is rename a character from Janice to Mom and suddenly any sexual interaction seems much hotter because it is taboo. Patreon has said that it doesn't have a problem with incest per-se, so long as it is justifiable within the story, they site Game of thrones as an example of this.

The problem with trying to run your own Patreon alternative isn't the mechanics of it. Using wordpress you could knock one up in an afternoon for very little expense, but imagine having to moderate thousands of profiles, and to have to make consistent and fair decisions about whether or not someone is adding content that is acceptable.

Advertising your site as "no censorship, anything goes" will not just attract fetish devs, it will also attract ********** and other things which will quickly land you in Jail if you don't deal with it in a responsible and timely fashion.

No censorship doesn't mean, illegal content is allowed. That's a fallacy and you know it. Most of the western world already has laws against even cartoon underage characters. They've been in place for like a decade now. Yes, you'd have to moderate it, but as you are a company making money you simply hire people to do that work. Again, I'm not sure where you're going with this. It's like you're intentionally putting up a strawman to have it be shot down.

 

[Thundorn]

No censorship doesn't mean, illegal content is allowed. That's a fallacy and you know it. Most of the western world already has laws against even cartoon underage characters. They've been in place for like a decade now. Yes, you'd have to moderate it, but as you are a company making money you simply hire people to do that work. Again, I'm not sure where you're going with this. It's like you're intentionally putting up a strawman to have it be shot down.

Not at all, I'm simply attempting to help people understand why someone doesn't "Just create a new patreon with no censorship" Because the logistics of it are far more complex than just starting a website with a payment gateway.

Similarly, Just hiring staff is somewhat unrealistic. Until sufficient income were generated, that would be impossible. Patreon themselves only take 5% and realistically Creators will come to the site a lot faster than patrons will, meaning that you would be moderating hundreds, possibly thousands of pages of content, long before you were in a financial position to hire extra staff.

You misrepresented my comment. I said that promoting your new site as "Patreon without the censorship" will automatically attract people who intend to upload illegal or questionable content. It doesn't matter whether that is your intend when starting up, that is simply a fact of life.

 

[mor joc]

This is a terrible thing for the new developers. DS and Mrdots are well known and popular developers they can start a new safe game on patreon and have their main game available through other means. Long followers will understand and new followers will have trust in them. On top of that, they have the resource to continue making 2 games at the same time.

But for a new and upcoming developer, it's actually impossible. Just consider my situation current situation for this.

I was trying to make a game for quite sometimes. It contains all little bits of things I liked from popular adult games and molding them into a unique setting and the storyline for the initial release was complete. It contained almost all the hardcore fetishes like incest, ntr, rape, blackmail, non-consensual sex and so on. The choice system was designed as such if the player wants to access those fetishes he can choose to the proper choices to get those scenes for the first time and those fetishes will be unlocked for the rest of the game else the player will experience just the vanilla part of the story. As you can see with the scope the basic text for the first version was quite long and took a lot of time to finish. But then I heard about new patreon rules. And on that instant, I almost lost my will to continue with it. Because I knew if I had continued with it on my own without any help or motivation it would take 4-5 months for me to release a new version or worse it would get abandoned at 0.01b and I absolutely hate those games. So I left the project but then after playing some more games and recent releases, I thought I can make patches to fix things up too. So I started to sanitize the story. I had to remove blackmail, rape, non-consensual sex and any future possibility of beastiality because there is no way to make them look safe. After a lot of cuts and edits, it was ready and some of the cgs are also completed but then I saw whats going on with DS and MrDots.

DMD was sanitized, but patreon still forced him to remove it and start a new game. I did not release my game yet, I have no fans and after releasing my first version or two if patreon does same to me I have no choice but to abandon the game. I don't have the resource to maintain 2 games. I have to work 60 hrs a week and then making my game at night with only 5-6 hrs of sleep. Even if I can make 2 games with the fake slow 2nd game on patreon no way in one or two months I have enough fans who will trust me and go to patreon and pledge on my fake game just for the development of my main game.

Patreon was a great site. People feel safe putting their money there. By no other means, creators can make enough money through other sites and donations. It is a steady monthly source of income and I don't expect my patrons to give me money and search the game on google. And the way patreon is banning games now. We won't be sure in a couple of months they will also create rules for developers who are creating unsafe games as their 2nd project and tell them to drop the project or drop the patreon page. As a developer, I am unable to find a light at the end of this tunnel. I can't see how I am able to create rich games and keep the players happy with these rules and lack of support and funds. As a player, I can't see how any good games will be made in future and how the new promising developers will get ideas out to us when we can't help them.

The very basic requirement that leads to patreon's creation is again at stake. Patreon that opend a new way for independent creators have closed the their door for Adult content creators. Unless some powerful and trusting company can take their place I am afraid patreon will continue crushing the new indie-adult game creators where many like me will lose their hope of getting their game out.

I apologize for this long rant. I am frustrated and feeling hopeless. This is the second time I picked up my project and got disappointed. But I really wanted to know what my fellow new developers are thinking about this problem and how they want to counter it.