Change my mind: NTR

[danteworks]

Oh yeah, I may have gone off-topic a bit, heh.

About the second point and people just searching for the corruption tag and blackmail tag- they're already doing that. But as we know, there is never enough fapable material out there in the world!
It's just that the ntr can amplify those fetishes for them. Again, by not being the type who immerse yourself as the mc, they just see some weak mc that is being used for a story plot to advance to their desired fetish. The innocent girl with (or liked) by a guy that gets overthrown by lust (either by blackmail, corruption, or something else).

The same can be achieved by the cheating tag, reminder that the Ntr tag is specific for chucking the player character.

 

[danteworks]

Hmmm, personally overall I prefer to have NTR in h games but I do not enjoy the fetish itself, in fact in games in which the NTR content is optional or unavoidable you won't find me playing them (well some optional games perhaps, some are quite nice overall)

Personally I'm someone that likes to have both extremes on a game, if I can have a harem I want to have NTR too, I find it very fulfilling to earn the harem rather than following a few routes. In fact I thought about it quite a bit to see why I'm like that and... it's because I enjoy challenges.

In strategy games I like to defeat enemies that are stronger and more prepared, pushing my ability to the fullest and when I win in that situation I get a sense of accomplishment. The same it happens to me in h games.

I can play the hardest game with NTR on if I can at least manage a way to get my harem or good ending. A lack of good endings would take all my motivation to play the game.

Overall I should say that rather than NTR I like the challenge in itself, knowing that I can lose, I can be defeated and that whatever I'm doing matters, even more I detest unavoidable NTR (unless it is part of the start of the game and it serves as a storyline motivation) and optional NTR (I hate to let others win).

I don't consider myself a NTR fan because I don't enjoy the NTR scenes but I do the challenge it implies. However that I don't enjoy them doesn't mean that I hate them, even more sometimes it can give me a sweet revenge in the future and it is satisfying too.

good answer. how would you explain someone playing ntr games with unavoidable Ntr content?

 

[HopesGaming]

The same can be achieved by the cheating tag, reminder that the Ntr tag is specific for chucking the player character.

Of course, and no doubt many more tags out there that can satisfy the desired outcome for those people.
But doesn't change the fact that NTR can (and is) be used for that.

 

[danteworks]

Of course, and no doubt many more tags out there that can satisfy the desired outcome for those people.
But doesn't change the fact that NTR can (and is) be used for that.

I can excuse using Ntr as an predictor Of how good corruption and blackmail is for players who do not insert themselves in the player character at all, but it would have to be alongside corruption and blackmail, and not a predominant search for Ntr

 

[crewfalcons]

I am happy to agree to disagree about the Cuck lifestyle. But I maintain that Ntr is specific for one thing only, and if you search for Ntr games, you must be after the Cuck fetish. You told me about your anal sex fetish, and I agree that it doesn’t mean you necessarily enjoy interracial. I have expressed the same using the bbc example. But I would question your honesty if you had arrived onto that game by searching for the interracial tag, then claiming that interracial isn’t a big deal for you, and that you were only after the anal scene.

if you wanted anal fetish, you would search for the anal tag first. This is not negotiable and not a matter of opinion.

Haha well I applaud your steadfastness to say the least. Like I originally stated, people are going to have different opinions. I don't enjoy cuckoldry nor a lot of fetishes out there. Me personally, I'm a little more open minded and like listening to differing ideas and beliefs or rationales and evolve my thinking on why people do the things they do (part of my curiousness in human nature I assume).

If someone says they like something for one reason and it's perfectly logical and thought out, who am I to claim they can't hold that point of view or rationale? What gives me the power or position to say "you're wrong.. my definition or my understanding is the way to think so shove your point of view for all I care"?

I know you see it as black and white - and that's perfectly fine. Some people don't and have their own views and positions. As long as they're logical and rationale that's fine. You don't have to agree with them, but they are entitled to their own opinion just as much as you are to say the least are they not?

 

[DawnCry]

good answer. how would you explain someone playing ntr games with unavoidable Ntr content?

If it's at the start it can be more as a storyline setting and it isn't truly focusing on NTR because you don't truly like or care about the characters yet, however if it's at the mid or late part of the game then the person must enjoy the NTR fetish, because most people dislike playing a game in which no matter what you do you can only lose.

It's kind of like... why bother fighting and playing the game if there is no way to win? only because you enjoy that type of content of course. If you play a femdom game with no reverse you must like femdom, however if there is reverse and you can do maledom it gets different.

 

[danteworks]

Haha well I applaud your steadfastness to say the least. Like I originally stated, people are going to have different opinions. I don't enjoy cuckoldry nor a lot of fetishes out there. Me personally, I'm a little more open minded and like listening to differing ideas and beliefs or rationales and evolve my thinking on why people do the things they do (part of my curiousness in human nature I assume).

If someone says they like something for one reason and it's perfectly logical and thought out, who am I to claim they can't hold that point of view or rationale? What gives me the power or position to say "you're wrong.. my definition or my understanding is the way to think so shove your point of view for all I care"?

I know you see it as black and white - and that's perfectly fine. Some people don't and have their own views and positions. As long as they're logical and rationale that's fine. You don't have to agree with them, but they are entitled to their own opinion just as much as you are to say the least are they not?

So here is my line. You are allowed to eat a lot of junk food, making you obese. You are not allowed to claim that junk food actually lowers cholesterol and that for you personally, subjectively, it makes you healthier.

The same is for NTR. I accept that people like NTR and cuck fetishes. But i take issue with the denial that playing cuck games for the cuck element does not mean you have a cuck fetish.

 

[fffffffffffk]

So here is my line. You are allowed to eat a lot of junk food, making you obese. You are not allowed to claim that junk food actually lowers cholesterol and that for you personally, subjectively, it makes you healthier.

The same is for NTR. I accept that people like NTR and cuck fetishes. But i take issue with the denial that playing cuck games for the cuck element does not mean you have a cuck fetish.

What if they want to laugh at cucks and cuck plotlines?

I actually do this with the Tyrant because the renders are passable.

 

[danteworks]

What if they want to laugh at cucks and cuck plotlines?

I actually do this with the Tyrant because the renders are passable.

So far I've assumed that NTR advances the eroticism but if its funny enough to warrant any potential distastefulness I think that's okay. Perhaps I may laugh along with you.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I’m consistent with my fetish standard. If you don’t think there is rationality, you will never gain wisdom.

If you say so. But, having already lived more than half of my life expectancy, I don't care this much to gain more wisdom or not.

the player chooses the fetish, and the question is why.

Alright, it was fun to see you workaround what you answer to, to be able to stand on your feet even when it mean voluntarily ignoring what you answer to. As fun as seeing you pose as the smart guy who know better than whoever don't agree with him, or pretend that you talk unemotionnaly about the subject, while more than half of your saying are purely emotional.
But it's time to break the truth to you...


The player don't "choose the fetish", he "give in to the fetish". Simply because fetishism refer to none-living objects and to body part ; but there's debate on this, and not everyone agree to see partialism as being effectively part of fetishism. Which mean that NTR, urology, scatology, BDSM, incest, and all the others, can be either a sexual practice, or just a fetish. And the two are totally different things.
Unlike sexual practices, which have for goal to satisfy the desire, with or without an orgasm as result of this, fetishism have for goal to raise the arousal, without intent to lead to an orgasm. The fetish create the desire that will, later, be satisfied by a sexual practice that can be totally unrelated to the fetish who raised it.
And, obviously, one absolutely not imply the other. You can have urology as sexual practice, and stay totally unexcited by urology as fetish. Like you can have it as fetish, and be disgusted by it as sexual practice. The two of them don't address the same part of the mind, fetishism being a fantasy, it's something that you feel, and you can feel it at the first or third person. This while the sexual practice is a reality, it's something that you live more than you feel, and that, obviously, can only be lived at the first person.
Therefore, by definition, having a NTR fetish mean that you like this kind of stories, and... nothing... more. It absolutely not imply that you also like the sexual practice, as long as being a weak cuck can be seen as a sexual practice. Exactly like the fact to have an incest fetish doesn't mean at all that you want to bang all your relatives.

And, like I said before, what you would had understood if you had done some search on the subject before talking so passionately about it, fetishism being the opposite of phobias, there's no rationality behind it.
Which don't mean that there isn't a rational reason at start of the fetish, like, by example, those who have a stocking fetish, because one of their first sexual memories was their mother putting her stocking on, or off, when they were starting their puberty ; which is the main reason behind this fetish.
Since I don't remember the name of one of the authors, I can't find it (the result are polluted by porn), but in the 90's (if I remember correctly), a study was performed on men being born between the 30's and the 70's. The younger the men were, the less there were ones with a stocking fetish among them. But for the older, most of them had memories implying their mother and her stockings, and among those for who at least one of this memories had a sexual meaning, only few ended with a stoking fetish.
Therefore, despite the rational origin of the fetish, the resulting process is, for it, totally irrational. Exactly like it is for phobias, who all have a rational origin, that later led to an irrational result.


In conclusion, I say it already, but you didn't even started to question yourself on this, your premise is totally wrong, and so, also is all your reflection and its conclusion :

if you enjoy the feeling of being ntr’ed that speaks to your psychology and it means you have the predisposition to doing it in real life.

This is in total contradiction with all the psychiatric studies regarding fetishes done since Alfred Binet gave is sensual meaning to the word, at the end of the 19th century.
But you're surely the one that is right here, you're so smart, surely way smarter than the hundred of psychiatrists who, unlike you, studied the subject.
And obviously it's rationally that you wrote this, and not because you think so low of people who have a NTR fetish (which isn't my case), that you want to belittle them as much as possible. Which, if you were right, would mean that you are giving them an orgasm each time you validate a comment on this thread...

 

[Steve Carter]

So if I play Alien: Isolation and enjoy it I secretly want a penis shaped alien to bite my face off in real life?

 

[danteworks]

More

If you say so. But, having already lived more than half of my life expectancy, I don't care this much to gain more wisdom or not.




Alright, it was fun to see you workaround what you answer to, to be able to stand on your feet even when it mean voluntarily ignoring what you answer to. As fun as seeing you pose as the smart guy who know better than whoever don't agree with him, or pretend that you talk unemotionnaly about the subject, while more than half of your saying are purely emotional.
But it's time to break the truth to you...


The player don't "choose the fetish", he "give in to the fetish". Simply because fetishism refer to none-living objects and to body part ; but there's debate on this, and not everyone agree to see partialism as being effectively part of fetishism. Which mean that NTR, urology, scatology, BDSM, incest, and all the others, can be either a sexual practice, or just a fetish. And the two are totally different things.
Unlike sexual practices, which have for goal to satisfy the desire, with or without an orgasm as result of this, fetishism have for goal to raise the arousal, without intent to lead to an orgasm. The fetish create the desire that will, later, be satisfied by a sexual practice that can be totally unrelated to the fetish who raised it.
And, obviously, one absolutely not imply the other. You can have urology as sexual practice, and stay totally unexcited by urology as fetish. Like you can have it as fetish, and be disgusted by it as sexual practice. The two of them don't address the same part of the mind, fetishism being a fantasy, it's something that you feel, and you can feel it at the first or third person. This while the sexual practice is a reality, it's something that you live more than you feel, and that, obviously, can only be lived at the first person.
Therefore, by definition, having a NTR fetish mean that you like this kind of stories, and... nothing... more. It absolutely not imply that you also like the sexual practice, as long as being a weak cuck can be seen as a sexual practice. Exactly like the fact to have an incest fetish doesn't mean at all that you want to bang all your relatives.

And, like I said before, what you would had understood if you had done some search on the subject before talking so passionately about it, fetishism being the opposite of phobias, there's no rationality behind it.
Which don't mean that there isn't a rational reason at start of the fetish, like, by example, those who have a stocking fetish, because one of their first sexual memories was their mother putting her stocking on, or off, when they were starting their puberty ; which is the main reason behind this fetish.
Since I don't remember the name of one of the authors, I can't find it (the result are polluted by porn), but in the 90's (if I remember correctly), a study was performed on men being born between the 30's and the 70's. The younger the men were, the less there were ones with a stocking fetish among them. But for the older, most of them had memories implying their mother and her stockings, and among those for who at least one of this memories had a sexual meaning, only few ended with a stoking fetish.
Therefore, despite the rational origin of the fetish, the resulting process is, for it, totally irrational. Exactly like it is for phobias, who all have a rational origin, that later led to an irrational result.


In conclusion, I say it already, but you didn't even started to question yourself on this, your premise is totally wrong, and so, also is all your reflection and its conclusion :



This is in total contradiction with all the psychiatric studies regarding fetishes done since Alfred Binet gave is sensual meaning to the word, at the end of the 19th century.
But you're surely the one that is right here, you're so smart, surely way smarter than the hundred of psychiatrists who, unlike you, studied the subject.
And obviously it's rationally that you wrote this, and not because you think so low of people who have a NTR fetish (which isn't my case), that you want to belittle them as much as possible. Which, if you were right, would mean that you are giving them an orgasm each time you validate a comment on this thread...

Strawman arguments must be easy to make

 

[danteworks]

D

So if I play Alien: Isolation and enjoy it I secretly want a penis shaped alien to bite my face off in real life?

If you like it due to the scares, you can infer that you like horror. See bbc example

 

[Steve Carter]

D

If you like it due to the scares, you can infer that you like horror. See bbc example

What if I like NTR games because of the anxiety it creates and for me watching a significant other get fucked (or potentially get fucked if NTR is avoidable) by someone else creates a lot of anxiety? It doesn't mean I want it to happen in real life, it is just something in particular that creates anxiety and just like in a horror game I like that anxiety.

 

[danteworks]

What if I like NTR games because of the anxiety it creates and for me watching a significant other get fucked (or potentially get fucked if NTR is avoidable) by someone else creates a lot of anxiety? It doesn't mean I want it to happen in real life, it is just something in particular that creates anxiety and just like in a horror game I like that anxiety.

I think the anxiety part is part of the draw to ntr. It doesn't mean you will play it out in real life, but it does mean that you have that fetish.

The reason you don't play it out in real life is because there are consequences in real life but there would.be nothing stopping you if ther were no consequences, as you have the affinity to that feeling and associate it with pleasure

 

[Steve Carter]

I think the anxiety part is part of the draw to ntr. It doesn't mean you will play it out in real life, but it does mean that you have that fetish.

The reason you don't play it out in real life is because there are consequences in real life but there would.be nothing stopping you if ther were no consequences, as you have the affinity to that feeling and associate it with pleasure

If you really want it to happen in real life though then there would be no anxiety. There's only anxiety if you don't want it to happen (like getting your face bit off by a penis shaped alien).

 

[danteworks]

If you really want it to happen in real life though then there would be no anxiety. There's only anxiety if you don't want it to happen (like getting your face bit off by a penis shaped alien).

An example I can find is people going to horror carnivals and roller coasters - some people can't understand the whole experience and view it as counter intuitive but to some it's a thrill.

 

[obibobi]

If you really want it to happen in real life though then there would be no anxiety. There's only anxiety if you don't want it to happen (like getting your face bit off by a penis shaped alien).

You can have reasons for wanting something to happen while also having reasons for not.

Gore fanfiction is weirdly popular with women but you would have a hard time finding one who actually wants to be eaten. In real life they would probably get some thrill from being prey but this is massively outweighed by wanting to avoid immense pain and their need to survive.

 

[Fliptoynk]

Anyways, we can't generalize everything. Some treat it so-so like the rest of the fetishes, others are into it, others avoid it, etc... Putting words into others' mouths won't help much. 'Done that last year and all I got was infraction warning

 

[loikl]

Talking about NTR is always complicated (especially in this page), and it is so because the term has been distorted a lot, some consider that, if in a game, another man other than MC has sex is already NTR, just to give an example.

Personally I think there are NTR scenes very good and well done that are exciting, and it is not bad to see and enjoy them, the problem is when the game abuses this and you end up cucked for the least and ridiculous reason without being able to avoid it.

Regarding the issue that you raise, I think that if in a game there is NTR and you enjoyed it does not make you a cuckold but if you predominantly look for these games over others or suggest to the developers that include this fetish is probably a cuckold (it is not a bad thing, but it is not for me).