Change my mind: NTR

[polywog]

The game:
The girl you like won't give you the time of day.
You worship the ground she walks on, despite her putting you in the friend-zone.
Every Friday you cash your paycheck, and run over to her apartment building and show her the receipt where you paid her rent for her. She doesn't invite you in because her roommate has the flu and she doesn't want you to get sick, but she lets you lick her boot, and you can almost imagine seeing her panties a little bit while you're down there.

This goes on for a few years. Your co-workers see what's going on, but you're blind to the situation.
Your co-workers have tried to set you up with other girls, but you aren't interested, you're in love with what's her name.
They have told you that her roommate is a man, and even shown you pictures of him, but you don't care, she's the love of your life.

So one day your co-workers decide to do you a favor and NTR you. On Friday you pay her rent as usual and you go to lick some boot, but this time her door is open. You think this is your lucky day, first time ever you walk in to her apartment.
You walk around looking at her stuff, hmm for someone struggling to pay her bills, she sure has a lot of nice things (you live with your landlady, and don't even have furniture because you give away all your money) you hear noises coming from the bedroom area. You hear "oh god... oh god" and you think she's in trouble, you forget all about your boner and you burst into the room to rescue her. You freeze in shock... you've never seen a real naked girl before, except in porn, but this isn't just any old porn star, this is the love of your life's breast bouncing all over the place while she's getting plowed by 4 guys wearing the same company uniform as you. You immediately self-insert and begin to watch as your cocks simultaneously pleasure all her holes like you've always imagined. Your pants are the wettest they've ever been, ans your co-workers finish jizzing on her one by one. They leave, and you rush in to cuddle with her... finally!

 

[anne O'nymous]

Because you are changing an existing relationship into something else.

Like I said, it apply only in corruption games that have incest as background.
If you start a relationship with one of your coworkers, you don't gain power over them, even if the said coworker is your boss. And there's absolutely no reason for this to be different because it's an incestuous relationship.

A son fucking his mother becomes "the man of the house".

He don't need to fuck his mother for that, just to be old enough and the father must not exist, or just not be here.
Many fathers says to their son, when going on a job trip by example, that they now are "the man of the house". I'm pretty sure that none of them imply that he can now mess with his mother.
Anyway, since when being "the man of the house" is a question of power, and not a question of responsibility ? Or more precisely, since when it became again a question of power ? 50's are far away behind us.

A father fucking his daughter completely "owns" her, and is not "giving her away" to some future husband.

Same here, many fathers already do this, and they aren't in an incestuous relationship with their daughter. Forced marriages aren't anything else than a father enforcing the fact that he own his daughter and her future, and it's far to be something limited to the middle east.
The only difference is the notion of "giving her away". Yet, many of those fathers continue to control the life of their daughter even after their marriage, and expect to see their authority prevail over the one of their husband.

In the case of sibling incest, the power dynamic is different as there is no party which is naturally stronger, but there is often still a form of rivalry, which gets an additional dimension because of the incest.

Where is this additional dimension in, by example, Sisterly lust ? The only case where there's power is if you choose to submit the middle sister ; yet it's optional and you can choose the romantic route.
Hell, the MC don't even have power over his mother. Would he be in position of power, that he would just tell her to shut the fuck up when she discovered that he was also banging one of his sisters. But no he's afraid as fuck that she kick him out of the house. And this despite the fact that he know for sure that she's totally addicted to him. He even ask for her agreement when he decide to move the family in a place where they'll be safe, despite the fact that now all the family rely on his money.
In My sister, my roommate, it's the opposite, by giving in the incestuous relationship with his sister, the MC lost all power.
In Haley's story, it's even worse. The MC is reluctant to take the power that his sister is voluntarily giving to him, both on her life and on her sexuality.
There's also Sister, Sister, Sister, where the MC use his mind power to force his mother and sister to open to the incestuous relationship they already wanted, and not a single second gain power over them because of this relationship ; not even in the sequel, Cuntswell Academy.
I could also name games like Freeloading family, by example, where, according to the point system introduced recently, you'll loose if you aren't lovely enough with the step-sister ; therefore, treat this relationship as a question of power, and it's a future bad end for you.
On this side, there's also I love daddy. If the MC (the daughter) act like a bitch in power now that she's in a relationship with her dad, you'll have one of the many bad ends. As far as I remember, the only way to have the good ending is to let the mother continue to own the power.

All of them are among the best incest games especially because of this. They treat incest as what it is, a question of love, not a question of power.


Note: No need to answer, it's totally off topic. But still it needed to be said. It start to be tiring to see all those cheap "make them your slaves" wanabe incest games.

 

[SkyRebel]

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[polywog]

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

Maybe I'm just oversimplifying things, but in my view:
cuck = weak
cheater = whore
And I can't identify with either.


See here:
https://f95zone.to/threads/what-is-cuckolding.20634/
Basically I agree with you, but apparently the meaning changed.

Here's the crazy thing:

Cuck= The person who steals the female e.g. the Cuckoo, who initiates the offspring sabotage.
Cucked= The weaker party who gets sabotaged

I'm not sure who started using the term Bull in relation to cuckoldry scenarios, but to me it's disingenuous.
So do you see that the perversion of the term has in essence become an implicit affirmation of the "Bull's" role in a cuckoldry scenario since the term that should refer to the Cuckoo's role has been swapped with the "Cuckoo'd" meaning that the Cuckoo/Bull isn't to blame, but the Cuckoo'd/Cucked. My point is, the next time you're out hunting and you hear that famous Cuckoo bird call from the trees, aim in that general direction and unleash hell.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Here's the crazy thing:

Cuck= The person who steals the female e.g. the Cuckoo, who initiates the offspring sabotage.
Cucked= The weaker party who gets sabotaged

What's interesting, is that the inversion of the definition isn't limited to English.
In French (at least) also, the definition of "cuck" past from, "the guy who cuck the husband", to, "the husband himself". And this happened during my life, so between the 70's and now. But we have no equivalent for "bull".
One of the explanations gave stand that nowadays life style made us less aware of what happen in the neighborhood. Therefore, unlike in the past where all the village was aware that X was cucked and knew by who, we now just know that X is cucked. Having no use of the word "cuck", since we don't know who he is, we slowly started to give it the opposite definition, in an attempt to still use it.

 

[ChaosOpen]

Here's the crazy thing:

Cuck= The person who steals the female e.g. the Cuckoo, who initiates the offspring sabotage.
Cucked= The weaker party who gets sabotaged

I'm not sure who started using the term Bull in relation to cuckoldry scenarios, but to me it's disingenuous.
So do you see that the perversion of the term has in essence become an implicit affirmation of the "Bull's" role in a cuckoldry scenario since the term that should refer to the Cuckoo's role has been swapped with the "Cuckoo'd" meaning that the Cuckoo/Bull isn't to blame, but the Cuckoo'd/Cucked. My point is, the next time you're out hunting and you hear that famous Cuckoo bird call from the trees, aim in that general direction and unleash hell.

The bull is called that because the cuck is entirely submissive to him. The bull decides how much time he spends with his wife, how much engagement he is allowed in their sexual activities(ranging from whether he can have sex with her to whether he can watch), and even has the power to spontaneously declare that the cuckold relationship is over and the cuck must break ties and leave. Everything is decided by the bull and the cuck is expected accept it without protest.

Also, keep in mind that cuckolding does not apply to anyone whose partner cheated on them. A cuck is someone who enjoys their partner having sex with others while he lives a submissive life. Whether his partner cuckolds him because that is what he wants or she tolerates him because he gives her financial security without asking for any form of affection isn't differentiated, both are cucks.

Not all NTR games feature cucks as the MC, some are not cucks but simply have their partner cheat on them, they are heartbroken but the relationship is none-the-less over. Cucks actively derive pleasure from a partner having sex with another, whether it is from a sustained cuckold relationship or her cheating on them and leaving, if they enjoy that scenario, whether personally or vicariously, they're a cuck.

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

The bull is called that because the cuck is entirely submissive to him...

Also, keep in mind that cuckolding does not apply to anyone whose partner cheated on them. A cuck is someone who enjoys their partner having sex with others while he lives a submissive life. Whether his partner cuckolds him because that is what he wants or she tolerates him because he gives her financial security without asking for any form of affection isn't differentiated, both are cucks.

I think you might have missed my point... I was saying that to use the term "cuck" to refer to the "cucked" is a grave misuse of the language. It's like calling someone who is murdered a murderer or a murder... See how it doesn't make sense?
The Cuckoo bird is what cuck is derived from, but the Cuckoo doesn't get "Cuckoo'd", he does that to other species of birds. You following me now?

 

[DownTheDrain]

The Cuckoo bird is what cuck is derived from, but the Cuckoo doesn't get "Cuckoo'd", he does that to other species of birds.

I didn't know that. Doubtlessly this revelation will serve to spice up my sex life considerably.

 

[polywog]

I think you might have missed my point... I was saying that to use the term "cuck" to refer to the "cucked" is a grave misuse of the language. It's like calling someone who is murdered a murderer or a murder... See how it doesn't make sense?
The Cuckoo bird is what cuck is derived from, but the Cuckoo doesn't get "Cuckoo'd", he does that to other species of birds. You following me now?

It's the female cuckoo who lays her eggs in other bird's nests. She even goes so far as to throw other eggs out of the nest. The other birds raise her baby as if it were their own. "He" cuckoos don't lay eggs, so only females can cuck you.

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

It's the female cuckoo who lays her eggs in other bird's nests. She even goes so far as to throw other eggs out of the nest. The other birds raise her baby as if it were their own. "He" cuckoos don't lay eggs, so only females can cuck you.

I'm glad you noticed that, and you'll have to pardon the liberties I've taken- all in the interest of brevity and accuracy. I don't know if I've ever heard of a woman referred to as a cuck, or as getting cucked, it's always in reference to the male role which goes a long way in establishing the misogynistic origin of cuckoldry. It's always been a male past-time. So again, understanding that it is the female Cuckoo who does the "cucking", it still doesn't change my initial point that "cuck" should refer to the one initiating the cuckoldry, not the other way around.

 

[ChaosOpen]

I'm glad you noticed that, and you'll have to pardon the liberties I've taken- all in the interest of brevity and accuracy. I don't know if I've ever heard of a woman referred to as a cuck, or as getting cucked, it's always in reference to the male role which goes a long way in establishing the misogynistic origin of cuckoldry. It's always been a male past-time. So again, understanding that it is the female Cuckoo who does the "cucking", it still doesn't change my initial point that "cuck" should refer to the one initiating the cuckoldry, not the other way around.

It's called reverse NTR,

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, and needless to say, it's rather sparsely populated. It's called reverse NTR even though it is technically just NTR, they use "reverse NTR" to distinguish games in which the gender roles are swapped; it is also known as cuckquean. The one I posted isn't a very good example though, as it's mostly cheating rather than true netorare.

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but the pickings in reverse NTR are incredibly slim and none seems to be true NTR in the vein of

You must be registered to see the links

where the wife cheats and is about the leave the MC but the MC says he wants her to stay and let him watch.

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

It's called reverse NTR,

You must be registered to see the links

, and needless to say, it's rather sparsely populated. It's called reverse NTR even though it is technically just NTR, they use "reverse NTR" to distinguish games in which the gender roles are swapped; it is also known as cuckquean. The one I posted isn't a very good example though, as it's mostly cheating rather than true netorare.

You must be registered to see the links

but the pickings in reverse NTR are incredibly slim and none seems to be true NTR in the vein of

You must be registered to see the links

where the wife cheats and is about the leave the MC but the MC says he wants her to stay and let him watch.

Ah yes, the ol' seductress thing. Yeah, seductress or succubus is a lot easier to say than reverse NTR .
And it's probably common in Japan, which is why VN artists tend to stay away from it, since it's not much of a fantasy when it actually might happen to you.

 

[ChaosOpen]

Ah yes, the ol' seductress thing. Yeah, seductress or succubus is a lot easier to say than reverse NTR .
And it's probably common in Japan, which is why VN artists tend to stay away from it, since it's not much of a fantasy when it actually might happen to you.

Actually, I think it's because of harem VNs, there probably isn't a market for female cucks when the guy can simply have sex with both women. You can see it in my examples, the second example with the netorase, the guy never breaks up with the girl and always has sex with his girlfriend after her cuckold session, so she never actually gets cucked, it's more like she is forced to wait her turn.

Compare that with male netorase in which the guy lives a life of celibacy as the girl stops having sex with him entirely and develops a preference for the other guy over her husband. I haven't heard of a netorase which doesn't end in full netorare. Probably because the type of masochist that watches NTR is looking to be completely submissive, the bottom rung of the relationship who doesn't have any say in the power dynamic. As an example, in Please Bang My Wife (the only NTR I have ever watchedand will ever watch) and the ending left me sick. In the epilogue, it was his birthday and the wife completely ignored his party then when she came home later she just handed him a DVD of her having sex while he was singing happy birthday to himself. She then threw his birthday cake to the ground and told him that he can clean it up after he watches the DVD, then she leaves to go back to her boyfriend.

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

there probably isn't a market for female cucks when the guy can simply have sex with both women.

And so you agree with me that cuckoldry is mainly a male endeavor? I mean, maybe someone should look into lesbian cucking

 

[ChaosOpen]

And so you agree with me that cuckoldry is mainly a male endeavor? I mean, maybe someone should look into lesbian cucking

There are 8 titles under "lesbian NTR." 3 of which are in English, 7 of them feature a girl stolen from a guy by another girl(in all of them you play the male), and one is a lesbian relationship in which a guy steals away the MC's girlfriend(this is the only one you play a girl, I have played this one and it's basically a side plot of one girl where she leaves you but you go to one of the other targets afterwords and hook up with them, so happy ending). From what I can see, there isn't an NTR with three girls and no guys on vndb.

So, to answer your question, NTR certainly seems to be a male only thing.

 

[polywog]

I'm glad you noticed that, and you'll have to pardon the liberties I've taken- all in the interest of brevity and accuracy. I don't know if I've ever heard of a woman referred to as a cuck, or as getting cucked, it's always in reference to the male role which goes a long way in establishing the misogynistic origin of cuckoldry. It's always been a male past-time. So again, understanding that it is the female Cuckoo who does the "cucking", it still doesn't change my initial point that "cuck" should refer to the one initiating the cuckoldry, not the other way around.

Cuckoldry for hundreds of years has meant the same thing. You are a cuck, if your wife gets pregnant by another man.
Either by trickery or adoption, you raise another man's child. This includes being tricked into marriage by a pregnant girlfriend.

In more recent times, paternity tests were invented which made it easier for cucks to figure out why their wife's son looked like the mailman. Multiple court cases resulted in finding that if you act as father to a child you are responsible, regardless. A bit of a catch 22. If you are sure the baby is not yours and you don't want to be cucked, you must make your declaration, and throw the slut out... if you allow her to stay, you cuck yourself.

Women's rights, took away a man's responsibility for his wife, as he could no longer control her. If she were to cheat, it was her responsibility.

Thus the current expanded definition of cuck. One who allows his wife or girlfriend to have sex with other men.

As for the cuck "fetish" A sexual fetish may be regarded as a non-pathological aid to sexual excitement, or as a mental disorder if it causes significant psychosocial distress for the person or has detrimental effects on important areas of their life. Enjoying watching others have sex, means you are a cuck. For example watching porn, makes you a cuck.. you chose to get off by watching, rather than participating. POV porn is not cuck, because you are participating.
Except for POV porn in which you watch others have sex, that's extra cuccky.

 

[thecardinal]

And so you agree with me that cuckoldry is mainly a male endeavor? I mean, maybe someone should look into lesbian cucking

A female cuck is called a cuckquean, so that might aid you in your search for that sorta content. But cuckolding seems to be mostly a male fantasy, according to Pornhub data.

 

[polywog]

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

For example watching porn, makes you a cuck.. you chose to get off by watching, rather than participating. POV porn is not cuck, because you are participating.
Except for POV porn in which you watch others have sex, that's extra cuccky.

I tend to prefer POV stuff, as I find watching other dudes get laid a bit weird. Buuuut, once or twice a year I get down on the glory hole thing.
But wouldn't POV where you watch others have sex just regular porn? Or are you referring to a film where the cuckold himself holds the camera?