Start of month update
Hey Folks,
This is my first public post in a while, but just wanted to get a message out to patrons and non-patrons.
Firstly - I'm back! As some of you know, I had some real-life stuff to sort out. Nothing sad or tragic (and no personal issues, etc.), just stuff that kept me away from the game (professional exams, changed job, etc.), but nothing to bore you folks with. Although the latest "distraction" was my girlfriend ended up in hospital after cutting her finger (tendon) while slicing vegetables. I did warn her about eating veggies (for her it almost qualifies as cannibalism!) Only joking of course, I was very sympathetic when it happened (I think my exact words were: "Is that your HJ hand?"). But I'm back in the saddle with regards to game development... (And Aeilion didn't take a break at all, so at least one half of the team was keeping the fire lit),
Secondly - As per my previous post, I turned off payment for December, based on the fact that I couldn't commit to getting out an update this month. Thanks a lot for those of you that suggested I take the money and run (I was tempted), but in the end I couldn't do it, so I left payment OFF. However, for any new patrons (or increased pledges) in December, you will be charged (not my option, it's just how Patreon works), but for those that signed up in or before November (and didn't increase your pledge this month), you shouldn't be charged.
Thirdly, Aeilion is creating an advent calendar of renders for December. I'll post Dec 1st-4th renders shortly (for Patrons only, because I'm not risking the wrath of Patreon - they get very touchy about partial/implied nudity in public posts). The calendar features characters from the game. And as I said, it is 100% Aeilion's work (so no credit to me)!
Fourthly (I know that's not a word!) - Thanks a lot to ALL Patrons for your continued (and previous) support. Without you folks, I would still only be on Episode 2 or 3.
Fifthly (I've started so I'll finish) For those non-patron "watchers" out there. Go on.... I know you want to join the party and get a peek behind the magic (albeit stained) curtain and see all the fun we have behind the Patron-only wall....
Now, I need to get back to the game. I owe Aeilion some script to catch up with his renders....
Will update again very soon (and keep you posted regarding Episode 9 progress). And we're also overdue a poll, so let me get something you can debate / vote....
CG
Episode 8 was another Acting Lessons situation for me. Except that it wasn't a character that was killed off, but my respect for the MC and Katie. The way they act during the party made me actively dislike both of them, to the point that I don't want to pursue her or even play as this guy anymore. The "optimal" solution to the party is psychotic and made me root for these people to go to jail. I'm aware that you can solve it in a less extreme way, but it's still creepy and you can't choose to not talk like a douchy frat boy going all "I'm totally going to beat you up, bro."
Really liked the game up to this point, but this was garbage. But everybody else seems to love it, so it's just not for me I guess.
Episode 8 was another Acting Lessons situation for me. Except that it wasn't a character that was killed off, but my respect for the MC and Katie. The way they act during the party made me actively dislike both of them, to the point that I don't want to pursue her or even play as this guy anymore. The "optimal" solution to the party is psychotic and made me root for these people to go to jail. I'm aware that you can solve it in a less extreme way, but it's still creepy and you can't choose to not talk like a douchy frat boy going all "I'm totally going to beat you up, bro."
Really liked the game up to this point, but this was garbage. But everybody else seems to love it, so it's just not for me I guess.
I agree with you about the way Katie/MC behaved in Chapter 8 can really turn you off, and I'm not trying to defend that part of the game, but because you no longer want to pursue Katie, the best way for you is to actually not go through with the revenge and purposely fail that part.
In this scenario, you would lose points with Katie, but it doesn't matter because you aren't planning to pursue her. More importantly, the MC never went through with the revenge and thus, never done the despicable acts that made you hate him.
Having said that, my MC is trying for the harem route (minus Zarah), so while Chapter 8 does leave a bad taste in my mouth, I'm not going to pretend as if my MC is a saint. He really is trying to screw Katie, her sister, her mother, and her two best friends after all.
Episode 8 was another Acting Lessons situation for me. Except that it wasn't a character that was killed off, but my respect for the MC and Katie. The way they act during the party made me actively dislike both of them, to the point that I don't want to pursue her or even play as this guy anymore. The "optimal" solution to the party is psychotic and made me root for these people to go to jail. I'm aware that you can solve it in a less extreme way, but it's still creepy and you can't choose to not talk like a douchy frat boy going all "I'm totally going to beat you up, bro."
Really liked the game up to this point, but this was garbage. But everybody else seems to love it, so it's just not for me I guess.
I have to disagree with you. If you pay attention to the storyline about the things that Roger and Natasha have been doing at school, not just to Katie but it comes across as they have been bullying everyone at school with maybe a few "friends" as an exception. Hell, even the way Roger treated the MC from the beginning of the party, calling him a fag and talking shit to the MC, someone he didn't even know, should have been a huge indicator that Roger and Natasha are a couple of a-holes that I honestly feel got everything they deserved. As you can probably guess, I hate bullies and have no issues with them getting a taste of their own medicine. Besides, it's not as if the MC treats everyone that way, just those that deserve it. (With the exception of when he is joking around with Katie of course.)
In this scenario, you would lose points with Katie, but it doesn't matter because you aren't planning to pursue her. More importantly, the MC never went through with the revenge and thus, never done the despicable acts that made you hate him.
I guess I could do that, but that's kind of beside the point. It's not like this is some deep RPG where you get to choose what kind of character you are. I could choose to "skip" this event, but clearly the dev has envisioned the MC as a person who is fine with doing this stuff, so it's likely that there will be more about his character that will rub me the wrong way in the future. Also skipping all of Katie's content is probably like missing out on 30% of the game, so meh.
Having said that, my MC is trying for the harem route (minus Zarah), so while Chapter 8 does leave a bad taste in my mouth, I'm not going to pretend as if my MC is a saint. He really is trying to screw Katie, her sister, her mother, and her two best friends after all.
Yeah, but to me there's quite a bit of difference between "tehehe I'm a horny bastard who's trying to get into five different girls' pants at the same time" and "let's make some revenge porn and knock some people's teeth out, also how about some sexual assault and public humiliation? I really need it to get into my sisters pants, also they totally deserved it, okay?"
I have to disagree with you. If you pay attention to the storyline about the things that Roger and Natasha have been doing at school, not just to Katie but it comes across as they have been bullying everyone at school with maybe a few "friends" as an exception. Hell, even the way Roger treated the MC from the beginning of the party, calling him a fag and talking shit to the MC, someone he didn't even know, should have been a huge indicator that Roger and Natasha are a couple of a-holes that I honestly feel got everything they deserved. As you can probably guess, I hate bullies and have no issues with them getting a taste of their own medicine. Besides, it's not as if the MC treats everyone that way, just those that deserve it. (With the exception of when he is joking around with Katie of course.)
I disagree that they "deserve it" but even if I agreed I don't think that it's okay to do whatever you want to them to get even. They call people names and spread rumors so it's okay to beat them up and rape them? That's the logic that leads to cutting off hands for theft, but I guess some people think that's a great idea too.
I disagree that they "deserve it" but even if I agreed I don't think that it's okay to do whatever you want to them to get even. They call people names and spread rumors so it's okay to beat them up and rape them? That's the logic that leads to cutting off hands for theft, but I guess some people think that's a great idea too.
You can't rape the willing. It was consensual with Natasha, and the MC never once touched Roger in a sexual way. Sammy's blowjob scene was not only all Sammy's doing, but was also consensual, at least until he later found out it was Sammy. The MC wasn't even in the room when it happened, so you should be hating Sammy for that, not the MC. As for "beating people up", it was one punch, and the pos deserved it.
You can't rape the willing. It was consensual with Natasha, and the MC never once touched Roger in a sexual way. Sammy's blowjob scene was not only all Sammy's doing, but was also consensual, at least until he later found out it was Sammy. The MC wasn't even in the room when it happened, so you should be hating Sammy for that, not the MC. As for "beating people up", it was one punch, and the pos deserved it.
It's not consensual if you are consenting under a fraudulent presentation of the facts. If I Roger = you, and sammy = your brother, did you consent to sex with your brother?
Regardless of the consent, what happened to them is the kind of thing that leads real life people into mental illness and self-destructive behaviors. It was psychological and physical rape. You can make the 'it's a game with fake characters argument so no person was harmed 'with some justice... but you're not doing that. You're making non-virtual paralels arging that rape can be justified, and we're just going to have to strongly disagree on that score.
You can't rape the willing. It was consensual with Natasha, and the MC never once touched Roger in a sexual way. Sammy's blowjob scene was not only all Sammy's doing, but was also consensual, at least until he later found out it was Sammy. The MC wasn't even in the room when it happened, so you should be hating Sammy for that, not the MC. As for "beating people up", it was one punch, and the pos deserved it.
Sammy told the MC what he was planning to do but interestingly enough it's not shared with the player. Maybe the dev realizing that most people would go "wtf, get away from me you psycho" but apparently the MC thinks it's a sweet plan. Also there's nothing consensual about it. That is rape.
Sammy told the MC what he was planning to do but interestingly enough it's not shared with the player. Maybe the dev realizing that most people would go "wtf, get away from me you psycho" but apparently the MC thinks it's a sweet plan. Also there's nothing consensual about it. That is rape.
Regardless of what the MC thought of the plan, you are still blaming the MC for "raping" Roger even though the only thing the MC is actually guilty of here is not stopping Sammy. It doesn't matter how you want to spin it, the MC didn't rape anyone. And as for that scene, the whole thing is one big grey area because Roger was recorded begging for it and he was genuinely happy and excited all the way through the act. He never once complained about it, he never protested it nor did he ever ask to stop.
That said, I understand that you're going to cling to your opinion, and I'm going to stick to mine on the matter, so I'm not going to clarify it any further.
Regardless of what the MC thought of the plan, you are still blaming the MC for "raping" Roger even though the only thing the MC is actually guilty of here is not stopping Sammy.
No, I'm blaming the MC for being a terrible human being for thinking this was an acceptable thing to go along with to get into his sister's pants. It doesn't matter that he didn't do the actual deed himself.
It doesn't matter how you want to spin it, the MC didn't rape anyone. And as for that scene, the whole thing is one big grey area because Roger was recorded begging for it and he was genuinely happy and excited all the way through the act. He never once complained about it, he never protested it nor did he ever ask to stop.
So if I tied you up and blindfolded you and told you Taylor Swift was going to suck your cock and you consented to this experience, but then I brought in a hobo I paid 10 bucks to suck your cock you would call yourself getting sucked off by a hobo a consensual experience? That's an interesting perspective.
I prefer games where the choices are important and lead to consequences, so it suits me.
After that if you had not seen the trick coming because it's not exactly said (Sammy plan) then I can understand your point of view. But the fact remains that you are not forced to follow this path.
And so the MC can quite stay in what you envision. Unless you really find that defending the honor of your friend (conquest?) And her physical integrity is a bad thing of course. In this case ... it does not meet your expectations.
Hell, even the way Roger treated the MC from the beginning of the party, calling him a fag and talking shit to the MC, someone he didn't even know, should have been a huge indicator that Roger and Natasha are a couple of a-holes that I honestly feel got everything they deserved.
Totally agree. And I'd like to add that Natasha was planning to humiliate Kathy in the same way, showing a video to everyone in the party. Both deserved all.
I prefer games where the choices are important and lead to consequences, so it suits me.
After that if you had not seen the trick coming because it's not exactly said (Sammy plan) then I can understand your point of view. But the fact remains that you are not forced to follow this path.
And so the MC can quite stay in what you envision. Unless you really find that defending the honor of your friend (conquest?) And her physical integrity is a bad thing of course. In this case ... it does not meet your expectations.
A few posts back I wrote that I objected on the grounds of narrative agency and unintended consequences.
When I looked through the code after decompling it, I noticed that the game tracks progress with the girls based on a pure points system. If you do something a girl likes, it's score+1. There is nothing unusual or wrong with the mechanic... but it has an unintended consequence that is at odds with the rest of the narrative.
Specifically, your sister likes you behaving like a gentleman, and the game rewards you with points for doing so... until it switches this completely around and fails to reward gentlemanly behavior (i.e. refusing to go along with the revengeporn plot) and rewards you for behaving like a douchebag (raping destroying the lives of two other people and publicly humiliating them while doing it.)
Narratively, this is jarring and not exactly best practice in writing, because it is not consistent either in reward/consequence from the game, or in character motivations.
The fixes I suggest are:
a) Give the MC a path consistent with 'gentlemanly' behavior. For example, giving them a path where they make Miss Bitch and Asshole admit it was all a lie.
B) Optionally, create an earlier path where the MC could behave like a d-bag and reward that behavior as well, so that rewards are consistent. Yucky personally, but to each their own since only pixels are being harmed.
I guess I could do that, but that's kind of beside the point. It's not like this is some deep RPG where you get to choose what kind of character you are.
While it is not a deep RPG where you really decide what kind of character you are, the choices in this game do portray what your character does/not. A simple example is banging Wanda or not. Does your MC care that he lied about his identity just to bang a stranger? How about getting frisky with Monica while she was drunk? Does your MC care that he could be taking advantage of someone who wasn't in the right mind to give her consent? And so on.
I could choose to "skip" this event, but clearly the dev has envisioned the MC as a person who is fine with doing this stuff, so it's likely that there will be more about his character that will rub me the wrong way in the future
I understand what you're trying to say, but the choices are there exactly to give you options to not do things that you didn't want to. You have the right to be upset at what happened on Chapter 8. But you were also given the option to not do so if you didn't want to. To me, what I disagree with you is that you treated the MC based on what the dev envisioned rather than what you chose to actually do.
I also don't think it's fair to use one thing you didn't like in one chapter out of eight, and then concluded that the future would be the MC being more like that one chapter instead of the other seven chapters that you didn't have a problem with beforehand.
Zarah rubbed me the wrong way the moment she tricked Monica into grabbing MC's dick at the very beginning of the game. That's sexual assault. It bothered me so much that to Zarah, it was all just a joke. Imagine doing that to someone you just saw for the first time without any reason. I've been avoiding her since.
What consequences though? Like Roger is going to show back up in a few episodes and stab you? I doubt it. This feels pretty self-contained and with how many girls there are in this game I doubt there is time for any consequences from your "let's have Roger raped for talking shit about my sister waifu" sidequest.
After that if you had not seen the trick coming because it's not exactly said (Sammy plan) then I can understand your point of view. But the fact remains that you are not forced to follow this path.
It doesn't matter that you aren't forced to do it. The fact that the option exists means it's within the range of the MC's character. And it's part of the optimal path. In games like this, where you grind points by picking correct dialogue options (i.e. play with a walkthrough) any option that is offered to you is part of your character. There are no Good/Evil paths in this game to differentiate your personality. I could choose not to let Sammy participate and still feel grossed out about the fact that the MC would happily go along with it if i let him. Again, this is not an RPG, the available choices are an indicator of who the MC is.
And so the MC can quite stay in what you envision. Unless you really find that defending the honor of your friend (conquest?) And her physical integrity is a bad thing of course. In this case ... it does not meet your expectations.
I wouldn't call turning into DOUCHEBRO 2000 "defending the honor of your friend (conquest?) And her physical integrity", I physically cringed at the endless tough guy dialogue. Also if some bitch needs me to set up rapes and revenge porn for her honor I'm probably out of there. Personal preference.
When I looked through the code after decompling it, I noticed that the game tracks progress with the girls based on a pure points system. If you do something a girl likes, it's score+1. There is nothing unusual or wrong with the mechanic... but it has an unintended consequence that is at odds with the rest of the narrative.
Specifically, your sister likes you behaving like a gentleman, and the game rewards you with points for doing so... until it switches this completely around and fails to reward gentlemanly behavior (i.e. refusing to go along with the revengeporn plot) and rewards you for behaving like a douchebag (raping destroying the lives of two other people and publicly humiliating them while doing it.)
Narratively, this is jarring and not exactly best practice in writing, because it is not consistent either in reward/consequence from the game, or in character motivations.
Ok first of all, Katie is not MC's sister. I understand people love their incest games, but when a game is not incest, it's not incest.
Secondly, I have issue more with MC's aggressive behavior than Katie's characteristic. Katie has been clearly described from the very beginning that she absolutely hated Roger. That is consistent with her desire to have revenge. It is then up to you as the player to decide whether MC would go along with her revenge plan or not.
Thirdly, the scoring system is consistent because it's simply based on if you're doing something they like or not. What Katie likes is not the MC behaving like a gentleman. What Katie likes is when the MC agreed with her. If you choose MC to be gentleman, then feel free to refuse to go along with the revenge. If you put more importance to bang Katie who wanted you to go along with the revenge, then put aside your gentleman act. The choice is yours.
Secondly, I have issue more with MC's aggressive behavior than Katie's characteristic. Katie has been clearly described from the very beginning that she absolutely hated Roger. That is consistent with her desire to have revenge. It is then up to you as the player to decide whether MC would go along with her revenge plan or not.
Thirdly, the scoring system is consistent because it's simply based on if you're doing something they like or not. What Katie likes is not the MC behaving like a gentleman. What Katie likes is when the MC agreed with her. If you choose MC to be gentleman, then feel free to refuse to go along with the revenge. If you put more importance to bang Katie who wanted you to go along with the revenge, then put aside your gentleman act. The choice is yours.
The problem is a not a narrative one alone. It's at the intersection of choice + reward. You correctly point out that points = something Katie likes, but nothing prior to chapter 8 lead me to believe that either she or the MC were sociopathic enough to carry out rape and publicly destroying someone's psyche and reputation. Paths where the MC acts like a D-bag are not the paths that reward points... until chapter 8, out of left field. The paths where you don't act like a d-bag are the ones that you are 'punished' for by missing points. It's a complete flip. It's not that the MC couldn't be either way, but it's a single point system, rather than one I've seen in other games where there are separate scores for separate 'versions' of the MC.
While it is not a deep RPG where you really decide what kind of character you are, the choices in this game do portray what your character does/not. A simple example is banging Wanda or not. Does your MC care that he lied about his identity just to bang a stranger? How about getting frisky with Monica while she was drunk? Does your MC care that he could be taking advantage of someone who wasn't in the right mind to give her consent? And so on.
Sure, I just think most of those choices still fall into a category of acceptable dichotomy where it's like "are you good and chaste" or "are you a naughty boy," while Episode 8 kind of pushed those boundaries into crazy land. Though Wanda is an interesting point, I actually enjoyed her scene, but now that I think about it maybe it should have been a warning sign.
Not in that I think there was anything wrong with it, but I think it was actually the first time I went "Huh? where is this coming from now?" when the MC suddenly starts acting like a character from 50 Shades of Gray without ever having given any indication that he's into that type of stuff. I just think the characterization of the MC was neglected for much of the game and then these things feel like they come out of the blue. Like suddenly he wants to act super dominant towards a woman or suddenly he's a frat boy who can't wait to beat people up.
I also don't think it's fair to use one thing you didn't like in one chapter out of eight, and then concluded that the future would be the MC being more like that one chapter instead of the other seven chapters that you didn't have a problem with beforehand.
This episode was so different from everything that came before, it felt like a radical shift that signaled a new direction. Also, again, the MC didn't have much of a character for the first 7 episodes, so there wasn't much to get upset about.
Zarah rubbed me the wrong way the moment she tricked Monica into grabbing MC's dick at the very beginning of the game. That's sexual assault. It bothered me so much that to Zarah, it was all just a joke. Imagine doing that to someone you just saw for the first time without any reason. I've been avoiding her since.
Sexual assault? I guess we all have different definitions. I saw it more as a rude prank. Maybe that's benevolent sexism. I guess I judged it on the outcome of Monica being not that mad about it and actually eventually liking that it happened. I doubt Roger is going to feel like that about his situation.
Oh, come on. This game has more incest related dialogue than your typical incest game. Replete with plenty of "Oh God, what am I doing" and "I'm so fucked up!" dialogue after you molest your fake family. You even get to call Monica "mommy" at multiple points in the game. This game is clearly meant to imitate an incest game and just didn't go all out because of Patreon or to be "different", but it's an incest game.
Only joking of course, I was very sympathetic when it happened (I think my exact words were: "Is that your HJ hand?"). But I'm back in the saddle with regards to game development... (And Aeilion didn't take a break at all, so at least one half of the team was keeping the fire lit),
