Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.4a] [Ron Chon]

[sleepingkirby]

View attachment 3568067

Yup

Wow... that art is awful...

Akira Yoshida came to be not as a mandate from Marvel to have a bunch of diversity hires so more people from all over the world would care about comics.

Here's what I was referring to that seems to contradict this statement (

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):

Cebulski first became known in the comic book world in 2002, when Marvel hired him as an associate editor to work with manga, a type of Japanese comic. Then editor in chief at the time, Joe Quesada, said

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that one reason they chose Cebulski was “because he speaks fluent Japanese and will be bringing some of the greatest artists in Japan to work with us.”

Like, maybe it wasn't a mandate and I certainly wasn't intending to say he was given a mandate. But he was hired to bring in Japanese artists. I kept writing "writers" and I read that wrong. My apologies.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

I feel personally attacked (':

Some people overhype her dominant aspects more than there are because she only really becomes domineering if you encourage it.

I know which choices you mean and how it works, but I remembered it as "agreeing" rather than "encouraging". But I don't remember clearly enough to disagree(yet, I'll replay from 0 next update)

It's a coping mechanism, as are all quirks. They're intentionally written to be kinky, but unhealthy.
If you don't encourage quirks, Null is a lot more helpful in a constructive way

Submissiveness is basically my whole personality, I don't have anything beside that.
And you called that a quirk. And unhealthy!
Oh ma ha, oh ma so...

Just kidding, no offence. But on serious note:
You made it sound like choosing the sub paths is... bad choice?
The "written to be kinky, but unhealthy" part makes allowing those kinks to be morally wrong.
Care to elaborate?

Click on the link in my signature. It'll tell you a lot of what to expect from our game development and has a link to an entire write-up of her best works.

Oh yeah, I've read it whole and seen the lists, that's why I asked the question - if comics Laura has her Dommy Mommy arc in them too (well, not literally, but you know what I mean, developing assertive personality)?

 

[sleepingkirby]

Animation is a huge industry in which the vast majority of artists will be doing storyboards or cels and very few will ever get to be in charge of their own show, so the job heavily revolves around being able to replicate the style of the showrunner or whoever did the character designs.

Again, I've been there. I've done that. I know. I literally have the model sheets for the original Invader Zim.

In comics, on the other hand, personal change and growth as an artist is entirely based on self-motivation. There's very little outside influence to draw in a dictated style, people often choose to follow the leader in the sense that they may go "Well that guy's book is a best seller right now, if my work looked more like his, I'd sell more copies, get more job offers, make more money" which is what happened when guys like Marc Silvestri, Fabian Nicieza, and Adam Kubert all started drawing like him. Not to mention the infamous Rob Liefeld's style is basically trying to copy Lee's angularity and heavy use of hatching, the reason he stands out as unique is just because he's so bad at anatomy it results in its own thing. But Jim himself never had to copy anyone else, he was the leader being followed. So he's never attempted any other style. The Jim Lee style seen on mid-90's X-Men when he created the famous suits you see in the Fox cartoon is the exact same Jim Lee seen on Batman: Hush a decade later, is the same Jim Lee who designed every character for the Nu52 reboot and the game DCU Online, is the same Jim Lee who drew costume designs for Mortal Kombat's Scorpion and Sub-Zero as guest characters in the Injustice games.

Most western artists who don't work in an industry where they're expected to be chameleons who can copy anyone's work such as in animation or graphic design, are downright encouraged by our "everyone is a unique and beautiful snowflake and you should emphasize what makes you an individual in order to stand out from the crowd and prove your worth" culture to hone in on having a style of their own and defend it from detractors even when the criticisms are valid (again I point at Liefeld who still can't fuckin' draw feet).

All this all well and good. And maybe it's true because with a quantifier like "most" it's hard to tell without getting actual data on most artist's professional works and personal works. If you want to assume it's true. That's on you. My literal experience with actual artists, a good amount of which have done comics, says differently. Assume all you want. I've literally seen differently.

But none of that answers the question:
Is Jim Lee unable to do another style?

Not most comic artists or all artists.

Is Jim Lee unable to do another style than his own style?

 

[RandomNumber]

Is Jim Lee unable to do another style than his own style?

The answer has obviously been yes this entire time.

 

[sleepingkirby]

The answer has obviously been yes this entire time.

So...you really think Jim Lee is that bad of an artist that he can't do anything but his style...
Well, that's your opinion...

 

[RandomNumber]

I don't think art quality is inherently tied to ability to change style so I would not call him a "bad" artist. His linework looks nice aesthetically to me and is competent at conveying what's supposed to be happening in each panel. I do think 90's Marvel was the only time he did good work as a costume designer and his influence on the aesthetics and storytelling in DC in the 21st century has been a net negative, but that's a completely different topic of discussion we don't need to get into.

What I have been trying, and apparently failing, to convey to you is that while you clearly have knowledge of animation and secondhand knowledge of the comics industry from friends who have worked in both mediums, you demonstrate an obvious lack of firsthand experience with comic book artists and their works. Which is why I suggested you avail yourself of google. If you're gonna have a discussion of what western comics look like, what Jim Lee's art looks like, and whether or not he's capable of or interested in changing styles, it might behoove you to actually look at his art. Y'know, read some Marvel and DC books. Be familiar with the three decades of comics we're talking about.

 

[sleepingkirby]

you demonstrate an obvious lack of firsthand experience with comic book artists and their works.

a) Do you have firsthand experience?
b) I once had a part time job doing the beta for a western comic.
c) Did you take art classes? Do you know what you learn in those classes? Like, a lot. Anatomy to realism to abstract to pencils to water color to charcoal. Just saying you do only one style well is pretty much saying you didn't take those classes. I would argue he can, he just doesn't because his art obviously shows he knows his anatomy as well as shot composition and sense of balance and movement that are the bread and butter of art classes.

Of course I know what Jim Lee's style looks like. I own that X-Men fold out issue he's iconic for.

 

[RandomNumber]

a) Do you have firsthand experience?

The answer to that question is "I do" but I don't think you realize what the question MEANS because you're phrasing it like a gotcha. So just so we're clear, in the context of you repeating back to me what I said to you..."firsthand experience with comic book artists and their works" just means reading the comics those artists made. Seeing them with your own eyes. I don't need to be told what Jim's style is by a second person because I have read comics Jim Lee has made. I'm an active reader of DC and Marvel and have been since the 90's. All I'm asking is you should fucking look at the guy's work if you want to have a conversation about his work. Owning one issue of X-Men isn't the same thing as seeing pieces from his entire career and comparing/contrasting them.

Anyway, I also graduated college with a minor in studio art, so yes, I'm familiar with all the things you're implying. None of which changes the fact that the standards in comic books are vastly more limited than those of other commercial art fields.

 

[sleepingkirby]

The answer to that question is "I do" but I don't think you realize what the question MEANS because you're phrasing it like a gotcha. So just so we're clear, in the context of you repeating back to me what I said to you..."firsthand experience with comic book artists and their works" just means reading the comics those artists made. Seeing them with your own eyes. I don't need to be told what Jim's style is by a second person because I have read comics Jim Lee has made. I'm an active reader of DC and Marvel and have been since the 90's. All I'm asking is you should fucking look at the guy's work if you want to have a conversation about his work.

Look, I'm gonna stop here. We're getting way off topic here. My initial point was simply, Chebulski just had to do his job and the work would have been better. A connoisseur doesn't trump actual people that make the thing. You can assume and believe all you like. I've been there. I've done that. I know the art theory and the background and I also speak the language. No amount of twisting of reasoning is going to change my past. The point stands. Though if you want to continue down this point, I recommend engaging in this post because what you're so sure of is not what someone else is so sure of. And, honestly, I live in Taiwan now. My local book store carries wall to wall mangas, not western comics. Not my monkey, not my circus. The same with most others that have touched on this topic, I'm not mad or even insulted at what Chebulski did, I'm just disappointed at what could have been.

 

[RandomNumber]

My local book store carries wall to wall mangas, not western comics. Not my monkey, not my circus.

Which is why I'm trying to impress upon you that American comic books are...a ghetto. They always have been and they've actually gotten worse since Cebulski got away with pretending to be Akira Yashida.

Jim Shooter was only 14 years old when DC hired him to write one of their top books based on scripts he submitted by mail. That's a story from the 60's for historical context but here's some in recent memory: on multiple occasions they've hired artists with Stephen Universe-esque noodle-armed styles whose only prior experience was a self-published tumblr webcomic, solely because you can pay them anything, they don't know their own worth or what the industry scale is.

I've seen a man draw a spaceship by tracing Legos and not even bothering to leave out the circular studs. In a book published by a subsidiary of fucking Disney, who have more money than God.

I just want someone like yourself who admits to being more fluent in other art fields to know that this is the difference between Jim Lee's line of work and yours.

 

[SolSpell]

ShinyBoots1993
What made you decide on Nulls powereset?

I've seen a man draw a spaceship by tracing Legos

Read this as "Legolas"

 

[ShinyBoots1993]

Spanish?

As a Spaniard, I take offense at your insinuation that my people are NOT loud and obnoxious. We try very hard to stand out.

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you mean the quality was just as bad, not the amount of tropes. My bad.

No worries.

Yeah, that is true. But I feel like they aren't relying on the tropes to define the work, but rather, the work lends itself to the tropes

Oh totally. I enjoy Isakai despite the fact that I am 100% aware that they are derivative and trope-filled.

Like, a romance story will commonly have a "Will she/won't she" trope because that is common in romance in general. Which, admittedly, a lot of works in the US at that time was trying to do the latter.

Maybe it's just because I've spent several decades of my life reading manga but Japan is fuckin' obsessed with will they won't they. Far more than the West. The West, which broadly includes America, England, France, Spanish, etc. focuses a lot on being in a relationship. Unless we're talking about teen dramas.

I was planning to watch it before the movie came out, now I wonder if I should...

As mentioned, I wasn't commenting on the quality. I find it silly but that's why SEED takes place in an alternate timeline separated from Amuro and stuff. Different galaxy, different tone.

None of us really feels that there's really mistreatment towards Krillan and Tien and especially not because of them being Chinese.

I mean Krillan is the comic relief and Team4Star had a running gag about how "owned" Krillan gets.

Tien outright gets ignored and forgotten several times.

There's also the fact that Akira Toriyama is known for disliking the Chinese.

Since it was based on "Journey to the West"

The original Dragon Ball was but I don't remember Sun Wukong being a member of an alien species who were named after vegetables.

Yup

Thanks I hate it.

Care to elaborate?

Sure sorry about that.

Morality isn't a factor.

It's just Jean dealing with her anxiety by doing incest play instead of proper therapy.

Laura progressively becoming more abrasive and stalkerish.

Rogue deciding to let her boyfriend direct all her life choices because of touch starvation.

None of those are healthy coping mechanisms in response to their issues. Does it make them happy? Yes. They are satisfied with the arrangement. It's 100% consensual. Is it a healthy arrangement? As someone in the field of psychology, no.

Though all Super Heroes need therapy and it's a joke in the comics community because genuinely, all but TWO psychologists in all of Marvel comics have secretly been villains.

assertive personality

No. Marvel just gave her one as well as Wolverine's mask with no build-up. Our version will have build-up.

What made you decide on Nulls powereset?

Maddeninggg would legitimately kill me if I explained anything about Null's powers.

 

[ddtmm]

come for the porn, stay for the psychotherapy

gg devs gg

 

[red1988]

the version 0.5 will be release here

 

[RubyO]

does anyone know the update schedule? I'm coming back every few days to check but I'd much rather have some dates to look forward to

 

[drifter139]

when you come here to talk about a game but everyone starts psychoanalyzing you lol

 

[ddtmm]

when you come here to talk about a game but everyone starts psychoanalyzing you lol

new buzzfeed article title: what your porn consumption says about your upbringing

 

[drifter139]

new buzzfeed article title: what your porn consumption says about your upbringing

buzzfeed article titled: what those mutant girls REALLY think about you lol

 

[mypossiblepasts]

Don't take any of this below 100% seriously, just banter/debate/joke.

Does it make them happy? Yes. They are satisfied with the arrangement. It's 100% consensual. Is it a healthy arrangement? As someone in the field of psychology, no.

I love YOU. But You are awful Community Manager xD

Hypothesis:

You made it sound like choosing the sub paths is... bad choice?

Answer:

Morality isn't a factor.

Argument:

Does it make them happy? Yes. They are satisfied with the arrangement. It's 100% consensual. Is it a healthy arrangement? As someone in the field of psychology, no.

I find all of this a little bit... contradictory, no? If I'm not choosing healthy arrangement, then I am choosing un-healthy one. And "un-healthy" path, taking the rest of context in this game, does kind of sounds like immoral choice.

 

[pothb]

What...... is that what it was suppose to be? Incest play? I never connected it to that.