dazedanon

Engaged Member
Modder
Uploader
Donor
Jul 24, 2017
2,059
18,987
The two times I have worked on actual TLs that got cut off by MTLs in the middle of our work, both of the main TLers immediately quit. Sure, MTL as a general rule SUUUUCKS and I personally hate to see how much it is becoming more and more common... but if the TLers that are doing fan TLs are like the ones I've worked with in the past.... This game now has No chance at ever getting a proper TL. Why TL something with a lazy TL when you can take some credit and notoriety for something that no one has played before? Simple logic really.
The assumption that all fan translators care about is fame and notoriety seems like a big hole in your logic if you ask me. There are plenty of games with a shitty MTL that were translated later so I'm not sure why you think that way.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Valloth

Valloth

Member
Mar 10, 2018
138
219
And hey if they do finish. It will ber a nice way to compare. Like even if the grammar is okay how is the accuracy? is there an obvious point where things just get rewritten? It's not bad as a point of comparison.

I"m honestly excited for this. If Chat GPT can allow MTL to no longer be mind numblingly bad ... we could really start to translate works no one's willing to take the time and energy to translate.

Manual translation still seems better overall but this way translation groups can just focus on what they really want to see given proper translation.

That or official groups could even let Chat GPT do the tedious work and focus their efforts of refining the script and perfecting grammar and errors.

OF all the practical uses for chatGPT, improving machine translation seems like one of the more interesting ones IMO.

EDIT: Oh forgot to metnion but ... next time at least put some sort of translation of menu options somewhere. Even if it's just ... a Folder of translated screen shots stuffed into the game folder. Just something so I know WTF I'm clicking on.

I know depending on how the menu is set up translating it can be hard but we need ... something. I'll give this a pass since it was stated this was more a proof of concept for how well chat GPT could even do this kind of thing. BUt if the other guy doing the translation at least translated the menu ... maybe borrow those just to make the game more playable.
It's a team effort when you're doing these Translations. Usually 1/2 Translators (Who are normally translating verbatim) 2/3 Editors who are taking the script and making it into something that sounds totally correct and is grammatically correct as well as matching the general theme as well as the characters in the VN (What I do.). An engine guy or two who has the technical wizardery to make everything we edit actually work again and fix some base game bugs, then Proofreaders/Beta testers. Cutting out just the TLers will speed up MY work as an editor sure as I'll have full access to the script instantly... but I also lose access to the person who can go in and tell me full context and tone of a scene. There's a lot of nuance in language after all. Engine bros are still screwed though... RIP all my bros who did all nighters to get scripts to stop rolling or add in a slide for needed context. Appreciate you! (TLers get all the glory lol)
 
  • Angry
Reactions: BeaAndNessa

Valloth

Member
Mar 10, 2018
138
219
The assumption that all fan translators care about is fame and notoriety seems like a big hole in your logic if you ask me. There are plenty of games with a shitty MTL that were translated later so I'm not sure why you think that way.
Never said that is all they cared about lol. It's always a passion project to a large degree. But if you think that seeing an MTL of what you're working on get released in the middle of what you're doing doesn't take wind out of your sails then.... not sure what to tell you.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: BeaAndNessa

dazedanon

Engaged Member
Modder
Uploader
Donor
Jul 24, 2017
2,059
18,987
Never said that is all they cared about lol. It's always a passion project to a large degree. But if you think that seeing an MTL of what you're working on get released in the middle of what you're doing doesn't take wind out of your sails then.... not sure what to tell you.
There's nothing that can be done about that. An MTL will always come out first and if you aren't expecting that to some degree when you start translating something I don't really know what to say. People want to play the game and they are willing to cobble through poetry to do it and they can do it 100x faster than any translator can.

Seems to me that those type of translators aren't doing it because they admire the work, but more for the clout itself. If you're in it for that reason, of course you are going to crash and burn midway. Nobody wants to do that shit for free unless you really REALLY like it.
 

Valloth

Member
Mar 10, 2018
138
219
There's nothing that can be done about that. An MTL will always come out first and if you aren't expecting that to some degree when you start translating something I don't really know what to say. People want to play the game and they are willing to cobble through poetry to do it and they can do it 100x faster than any translator can.

Seems to me that those type of translators aren't doing it because they admire the work, but more for the clout itself. If you're in it for that reason, of course you are going to crash and burn midway. Nobody wants to do that shit for free unless you really REALLY like it.
There have been plenty of projects I've worked on that haven't had MTLs come out. They have really not been as big of a deal as they are until recently. Honestly though, even if they are chasing clout, at least they are translating for us and uploading. When... you know... they could read and not even bother.
 

dazedanon

Engaged Member
Modder
Uploader
Donor
Jul 24, 2017
2,059
18,987
There have been plenty of projects I've worked on that haven't had MTLs come out. They have really not been as big of a deal as they are until recently. Honestly though, even if they are chasing clout, at least they are translating for us and uploading. When... you know... they could read and not even bother.
Nobody is ungrateful that they do it, I'm just pointing out that blaming MTL's for them giving up is far fetched. You could only really argue this for VNs since they are long as sin and encrypted to hell. Any RPGM game that comes out gets an MTL eventually.
 

Valloth

Member
Mar 10, 2018
138
219
Nobody is ungrateful that they do it, I'm just pointing out that blaming MTL's for them giving up is far fetched. You could only really argue this for VNs since they are long as sin and encrypted to hell. Any RPGM game that comes out gets an MTL eventually.
It's not far fetched when I've literally SEEN it happen :ROFLMAO:. It's absolutely not always the case as sometimes you get infighting, or people just taking to long with their part and there's always those who just ghost.... but yeah... it DOES happen.
 

dazedanon

Engaged Member
Modder
Uploader
Donor
Jul 24, 2017
2,059
18,987
It's not far fetched when I've literally SEEN it happen :ROFLMAO:. It's absolutely not always the case as sometimes you get infighting, or people just taking to long with their part and there's always those who just ghost.... but yeah... it DOES happen.
It's just anecdotal, you can argue that the main cause was the MTL when if you ask me the main cause is actually because the translator wasn't doing it for the right reasons. So they end up giving up on the first setback.

Even if I don't share the MTL's I make someone else eventually will. In fact this game had an MTL before I even did mine. It's inevitable, and if the translator doesn't realize that and quits midway because of it, they were never likely going to finish in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: soundengineer

desmosome

Conversation Conqueror
Sep 5, 2018
6,013
13,888
It's just anecdotal, you can argue that the main cause was the MTL when if you ask me the main cause is actually because the translator wasn't doing it for the right reasons. So they end up giving up on the first setback.

Even if I don't share the MTL's I make someone else eventually will. In fact this game had an MTL before I even did mine. It's inevitable, and if the translator doesn't realize that and quits midway because of it, they were never likely going to finish in the first place.
Don't worry. Your work is great. I can understand complaints about non-edited, low quality bullshit MTLs that they just drop and forget. But your method is pretty good in the first place, and you continue to follow up on your translations to release patches. Your doong gods work mate.
 

S4MU3L

Member
Feb 3, 2020
353
170
Some thoughts on the fan TL vs MTL debate -
A couple years ago, there were some MTL'd hentai games, and they were universally regarded as being kind of shit. The translation was bad, the english was bad, and overall it was nonsensical and illegible. More recently with DeepL and other such programs, machines got much better at "reading" and "writing" to produce passable text on a large scale, and very quickly.
When I started SNK2 I was curious about how much demand there was for it and other Bishop games, because the only one that'd gotten a translation was Sansha Mendan. I found some old 4chan boards where people were discussing all these games like they'd played them. I was like wtf? How? There's no way all these weebs have enough Japanese to understand things like character traits, plot, etc. It turns out that when it comes to hentai games, your expectations for quality of writing have almost nothing to do with prose, which is the primary advantage of a proper translation. If you use textractor and DeepL, you can kind of sort of understand what the girls' names are, what they're like, and how you end up having sex with them, and you can fap to that. Good prose is great, and you can dodge awkward sentences like "MC: 'I'm drinking my cum in my pussy!'" But most people are capable of blocking out or otherwise forgiving such grievances with MTL'd games.
I'm gonna give examples of two games with interesting translations: Eden's Ritter and Dohna Dohna.
Eden's Ritter is interesting because it's in a medieval dark fantasy setting, and the art style really leans into that aesthetic. I never read it in Japanese but the translators decided to write in a style that wasn't full medieval but also definitely not modern English. It felt a lot like the drama within the text made a lot of sex scenes unfappable because I was too distracted (which is kinda funny because you hear a lot about the opposite happening, where there's something dramatic going on but you don't notice because of the huge pair of tits on the screen). It was an excellent translation, but I feel like at some point, it failed its purpose as a t/l of an h-game.
Dohna Dohna is a good-ass game and you should buy it. Anyways, most of the story happens through dialogue, without much narration (at most they'll describe the setting really quick). It was imperative that the translators get the dialogue right because it's a strongly personality-driven JRPG. That said, I'll be surprised if more than a quarter of the text had anything to do with sex, as opposed to a nukige like SNK2 where about 15-25% of the text is dedicated to non-sex scenes. Dohna Dohna, at its core, is a JRPG that happens to have some sex scenes in it. The best part about the sex scenes was that they had characters that you became interested in through the story. The actual writing probably had minimal impact on the reader's experience. In fact I'm pretty sure that a certain minimalist, description-focused style is more effective at making sex scenes more fappable, as a general principle.
tl;dr Even if there's always going to be a demand for quality jp>en translations, most people find mtl to be good enough for h-games
 

ncelsword

Newbie
Jun 8, 2020
96
55
dazedanon Hey so can I ask how you got this done?

I'm not planning to get into game translation but I was thinking of possibly using it to translate some light novels and such that either no one's doing or not doing fast enough (This one translator does like ... a chapter a month at best and there are over 100 chapters left ... goign to take him 10 fucking years to finish. I appreciate at least someone's doing something but that's just too damn slow for a series of that length. If I can steed it up I will)
 

dazedanon

Engaged Member
Modder
Uploader
Donor
Jul 24, 2017
2,059
18,987
dazedanon Hey so can I ask how you got this done?

I'm not planning to get into game translation but I was thinking of possibly using it to translate some light novels and such that either no one's doing or not doing fast enough (This one translator does like ... a chapter a month at best and there are over 100 chapters left ... goign to take him 10 fucking years to finish. I appreciate at least someone's doing something but that's just too damn slow for a series of that length. If I can steed it up I will)
If you just want to translate some light novels you might be better off just using the ChatGPT Plus GPT4 and pasting all the text at once. Just make sure to list the characters and their genders too for a better MTL.
 

ncelsword

Newbie
Jun 8, 2020
96
55
If you just want to translate some light novels you might be better off just using the ChatGPT Plus GPT4 and pasting all the text at once. Just make sure to list the characters and their genders too for a better MTL.
Oh I see. Also noticed your link that shows how GPT4 translates compared to 3.5 so might wait on until I get get ahold of that as a decent price. If I'm going to do this I want to do it right the first time.

Plus while I don't want to wait 10 years ... I can wait a while longer for AI to improve more before doing personal investment. I mean it's that or try building an audience and get patreon support to fund it but ... I'd rather not do that.

Might try looking for groups willing to adopt GPT4 and see if they'll help. BUt really seeing how chatGPT can put fan translation into overdrive makes me happy.

Between Lazier groups that just shove out Google Translate can actually produce decent work for a price, better groups can use it to get the bulk of the work done faster, and overall we can just see more get done.

No more "Oh only a few dozen people like this so no group will pick it up" because even with just a few readers if they each are willing to pay $5 per chapter that can fund the translation. No more of this "patreon support me $200 dollars for a chapter because I need to make a living wage out of this to put time into it".

ANd to be clear I understand the need for that ... but it also just means anything unable to get that support gets abandoned.
 

CarnXace

Newbie
May 2, 2022
15
12
Anyone have translate in this part? View attachment 2699910
Hi there, I was the original guy that created the translations for the menus. These menus are very hard to translate as they are the name of the event and you must manually draw the art and replacing them in game. Unless someone is an expert artist and know all the name of the events, they are definitely gonna be untranslated.

Although you don't really need to know what the text saids. those in the UI are just the name of the event along with the character that event belongs too. Like the random example there, "The Mysterious Teacher", "The Charismatic Teacher" Etc..
 
  • Hey there
Reactions: S4MU3L

lockerxx

Conversation Conqueror
May 10, 2017
6,690
14,194
more game from bishop please :love:
any change of this game:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CaptainKoby

zackii90

New Member
Nov 23, 2017
5
10
Why translate 2nd not the prequel can't find the English for the prequal.
because there is no need. There is no plot continuity between the two, it just the same fetish but is applied on a different set of characters and setting
 

SkyTheSly

New Member
Apr 19, 2023
2
1
because there is no need. There is no plot continuity between the two, it just the same fetish but is applied on a different set of characters and setting
Honestly this is why I love BISHOP. Chijoku and Choukyou fetishes are my absolute favorites. So being able to read effectively the same VNs with a different set of characters and voices is perfect. Keeps it from getting boring too quick.
 
5.00 star(s) 1 Vote