Why devs instead of making Ntr optional make you chose NTR On / Off before even starting the game?

DownTheDrain

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Overall it depends on many aspects:

-Is it an important part of the plot?: Many stories start having the MC losing what he has, not talking about only porn ones but normal stories, your village gets razed, people you love die and it serves as the motivation for the player to grow and take revenge. So a story motivated by an initial unavoidable NTR is more than acceptable from a story perspective.

-Is it a gameplay element?: One of the objectives of the game can be to actually evade NTR while gathering a harem, an example of this would be Oyako Rankan, in case you didn't play it because it's in japanese, in this game you have to protect 3 different girls from the advances of multiple men and if you do it well enough you can get a harem ending.

-Is it a reasonable consequence?: Overall something that needs to be taken into account is that choices have consequences, most games that add the NTR tag and are story based have to add extremely simplistic choices that leads to it, even when there are actions that would have called for it.

To be fair I get that some people have an extreme hate towards it, but stories would be more interesting if rather than having to worry about making stuff as optional as possible it had a natural flow based on circunstances and I say this related to all fetishes, if you find that you are about to get NTR'ed then you could just restart and try to do it better, what I would add at most is a warning for those that activate it so that they don't have to see anything about the scene and they can just retry.

Now, having said that there are a few games that focus only on sexual content and don't offer much more, in that case it's okay to do it (giving locks), but if you want to make an interesting game you have to create a flow and make things logical.
I'm afraid I must disagree with you here.

Your first two examples don't really seem applicable at all. If NTR is a central part of your story or an integral part of the gameplay then an option to turn it off makes no sense anyway. You'd just end up with half a game and non-NTR players would be better off not even bothering and just playing something else that isn't built around a fetish they hate.

As for reasonable consequences, we're talking about porn games here. Very few of them are even remotely reasonable and they don't need to be. If they were aimed at realism 99.9% of MCs would never get laid. I very much disagree with your assessment that adult games need to be logical to work as intended.

I'm also not sure if I believe you when you say that you get that some people just absolutely hate NTR. What makes a story interesting for you may completely ruin it for someone else.
Frankly, I don't want to trial and error my way through a game to avoid a fetish that I'm not comfortable with, be it NTR or anything else. Especially in a genre where most titles aren't exactly professional products and many devs have only a limited grasp of the players' language. I'm looking for arousal, not punishment.

I think it's much more reasonable to allow players to avoid content they hate than to try and force your personal definition of what makes a game enjoyable on them.
 

aattss

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Feb 20, 2018
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Some people don't like NTR. Some of those people are fine with it in certain contexts or if it's avoidable, and some people have no interest in it whatsoever.
 

cadwaladr

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Aug 4, 2017
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Overall it depends on many aspects:

-Is it an important part of the plot?: Many stories start having the MC losing what he has, not talking about only porn ones but normal stories, your village gets razed, people you love die and it serves as the motivation for the player to grow and take revenge. So a story motivated by an initial unavoidable NTR is more than acceptable from a story perspective.
A game from a few years back did that as part of the prologue to explain why the MC, a handsome guy, was single.

The release thread turned in to anti-NTR nightmare and the developer had to rewrite the start to avoid the shit storm.

Some people aren't grown up enough to accept that a game or visual novel might have the MC face an antagonist. There's loads of books and films where the hero is sexually betrayed. The first one that springs to mind is High Fidelity, book and film. I guess the anti-NTR crowd would demand Nick Hornby or John Cusack asking them first if they want that turned off.
 

DownTheDrain

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Some people aren't grown up enough to accept that a game or visual novel might have the MC face an antagonist. There's loads of books and films where the hero is sexually betrayed. The first one that springs to mind is High Fidelity, book and film. I guess the anti-NTR crowd would demand Nick Hornby or John Cusack asking them first if they want that turned off.
Different mediums are hard to compare. I tolerate a lot of ridiculous premises, unrealistic plot points and silly dialogues in movies that I would never put up with in a book.

While I'm not familiar with High Fidelity, I doubt it was written or filmed to fulfill the viewers' sexual fantasies.
 
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DawnCry

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I'm afraid I must disagree with you here.

Your first two examples don't really seem applicable at all. If NTR is a central part of your story or an integral part of the gameplay then an option to turn it off makes no sense anyway. You'd just end up with half a game and non-NTR players would be better off not even bothering and just playing something else that isn't built around a fetish they hate.

As for reasonable consequences, we're talking about porn games here. Very few of them are even remotely reasonable and they don't need to be. If they were aimed at realism 99.9% of MCs would never get laid. I very much disagree with your assessment that adult games need to be logical to work as intended.

I'm also not sure if I believe you when you say that you get that some people just absolutely hate NTR. What makes a story interesting for you may completely ruin it for someone else.
Frankly, I don't want to trial and error my way through a game to avoid a fetish that I'm not comfortable with, be it NTR or anything else. Especially in a genre where most titles aren't exactly professional products and many devs have only a limited grasp of the players' language. I'm looking for arousal, not punishment.

I think it's much more reasonable to allow players to avoid content they hate than to try and force your personal definition of what makes a game enjoyable on them.
I would like to say that I don't get why you put stuff I don't say as if I do, I would appreciate that you don't try to put the extreme point and say it is what I mean. You can take this post as an expansion of what I mean but I would recommend you read it to the end before you start answering because it's important that you get my point at least.

Why do I say that?, I will go bit by bit:

-First you answer about my first two examples, I exactly say that it wouldn't make sense in those two examples and you say "then an option to turn it off makes no sense anyway" what you did is agree with me but put it as if I said otherwise.

Exactly what should I say there?. Overall I could comment that related of if "non-NTR players would play it" it depends on your level of tolerance, something that you did is suppose that all non-NTR players have the same level of tolerance which to be fair isn't right. There are many that can stomach just one scene that serves as initial motivation.

-"As for reasonable consequences, we're talking about porn games here. Very few of them are even remotely reasonable and they don't need to be. If they were aimed at realism 99.9% of MCs would never get laid. I very much disagree with your assessment that adult games need to be logical to work as intended"

I don't get who you are answering here, but it isn't me, let me repeat myself "something that needs to be taken into account is that choices have consequences", all I mean is that if you take stupid choices you shouldn't be surprised about the result, perhaps an example would be more useful; imagine that a killer has been detected around your house and you get recommended to not go out at night, you as a normal person ignore that information and end up meeting the killer, then you have two choices, fight or run, if you choose to fight you are gonna die. It is a logical result to your bad choices and in fact even if you run there is a chance that you get caught, but you can be safe if as prior choices you know the zone well enough to escape or are good at running.

This is what i mean as reasonable consequences, but this example applied to the simplistic choices we get would even ask us if we choose to die or survive, which is what I critic.

-"I'm also not sure if I believe you when you say that you get that some people just absolutely hate NTR. What makes a story interesting for you may completely ruin it for someone else.
Frankly, I don't want to trial and error my way through a game to avoid a fetish that I'm not comfortable with, be it NTR or anything else. Especially in a genre where most titles aren't exactly professional products and many devs have only a limited grasp of the players' language. I'm looking for arousal, not punishment."

Yeah you make it clear on what you want, you play games for arousal and that's fine, but I play them for gameplay and I enjoy challenges, we seek different stuff and on that point it's perfectly fine.

But the part that i don't get is... okay you play a game that has avoidable NTR and you don't want to do "trial and error" or use logic to evade it. I would say that it is possible that the game isn't made for you and I get what you mean, what you are talking about is when a game makes a NTR route and a harem route for example, I have to be direct here and say that this is plainly bad, overall be it the NTR or the harem route don't add anything at all for the other group of players. It is kind of like making 2 games at once, if it isn't integrated into the gameplay just stick with one of them. There are 3 points of view, harem is a plus, NTR is a plus or the challenge is a plus. If you only seek content and dislike the challenge then you should stick to harem games.

-"I think it's much more reasonable to allow players to avoid content they hate than to try and force your personal definition of what makes a game enjoyable on them."

And to end I found this too much, you see I don't force my personal definition of what makes a game enjoyable, but I have to critic your views, you literally play games with avoidable NTR but you don't want to have to avoid it because that isn't what you seek, the answer would be to just play harem games I would say, in fact the whole point of adding avoidable NTR should be to fight it off, if you don't want that type of gameplay then just play a game that only has what you want, which can be a harem story or a NTR story (if you like NTR), in fact the only reason you play them is that they are so separated that you are feeling like you play a harem game.

Be fair about it, for you it would be better that said game didn't have any NTR content and focus more on adding harem content and that's fine, but what I mean is just that, you can do a harem game or a NTR game but if you try to make a harem game with avoidable NTR the point isn't to make 2 routes but to have a game about making a harem while fighting off the chance of NTR.

Hope it's easy to understand what I mean.
 

DownTheDrain

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I'm rather amused that you question my reading comprehension and accuse me of putting words in your mouth, only to then do a whole lot of projecting yourself and make various assumptions about me and the way I like to play that I never expressed.

This discussion doesn't really seem to go anywhere productive so it's probably best to agree to disagree and move on.
 

DownTheDrain

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I don't get you, I say you missed my point and you feel offended for that but I don't even critic that you missed it, just comment that and try to explain it more to solve that situation, but you rather than responding what I mean you just feel like cutting it off.

If we play the "I'm offended" game I should be offended too that you miss what I mean, and I do projecting on your words, you literally have said that you play games just for arousal and don't want to waste time having to re-do or think about your choices and I explain that avoidable NTR should be exactly about that.

I'm not mad nor did I mean to offend you, but I have to say that I don't get your attitude, if you feel I said anything wrong just point it out.
I said I was amused, but apparently that's another one of those cases where you know better what I meant than I do and I was actually offended.
I never said I'm playing games only to be aroused, just like I never mentioned harem games that you seem to be so hung up on and I certainly didn't claim that I never want to think about my choices.

This is beyond silly now so I'm indeed "cutting it off" before it gets into toxic territory.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
 

DawnCry

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Nov 25, 2017
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I said I was amused, but apparently that's another one of those cases where you know better what I meant than I do and I was actually offended.
I never said I'm playing games only to be aroused, just like I never mentioned harem games that you seem to be so hung up on and I certainly didn't claim that I never want to think about my choices.

This is beyond silly now so I'm indeed "cutting it off" before it gets into toxic territory.
Enjoy the rest of your day.
I'm not trying to be offensive or insult you in any way, nor was I about to enter toxic territory, feel free to just not answer anymore but I don't want you to leave with that idea. What happened is that we didn't understand each other and you left it at that, but I feel that your attitude is kind of unfair.

Have a nice day.
 

cadwaladr

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Aug 4, 2017
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Different mediums are hard to compare. I tolerate a lot of ridiculous premises, unrealistic plot points and silly dialogues in movies that I would never put up with in a book.

While I'm not familiar with High Fidelity, I doubt it was written or filmed to fulfill the viewers' sexual fantasies.
That's true. But then many adult games aren't just wank-fests. Not anymore. You can have a game where sex is an important aspect of the game without it being the be all and end all of the game. It's ironic in a way. Porn moved beyond stag films into a Golden Age where you had plots that the sex was tangential to; and then went back to quick gonzo scenes with no plot. Games have gone a parallel path. Started with the equivalent of stag films, moved into Gonzo and now we're getting games like BADIK and Summertime Saga where the sex is almost incidental to the story.
 
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hakarlman

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Here's my guess. People who hate NTR don't want to accidentally stumble upon an NTR scene. Such a scene could ruin their immersion. If it's turned off, then there's zero risk of encountering an NTR scene.

If you're making a game where NTR is a consequence, then I'm guessing your game is about the challenge of overcoming opposition in some form; so leaving NTR in as a consequence is vital. However, if the intention of your game isn't to challenge the player, but instead tell a story with dialogue choices (relaxed game), you probably want to add the option to disable NTR.