What is this thing about incest?

[woody554]

several reasons. to begin I completely reject the hacky armchair explanations of it being 'vanilla with minimal taboo' as well as 'having mom issues'. we've had a thousand of these threads and I've never seen a single person say they're interested in their IRL mother. it seems to be extremely rare. and the vanilla thing just makes no sense whatsoever.

for most usual scenarios (mom + son mc) it's the reversal of power relation, the conquest of the most unattainable love interests. it's like seducing your teacher on steroids.

how it works for dad mc + daughter I couldn't say, I don't go that way. for me that power relation is the exact opposite of what's hot, the stronger going for the weaker which is just abusive. often the problem is dealt with making the weaker (non-mc) party be the initiator, but that just makes the dad mc insufferably patronizing. I assume the people looking for these scenarios look for something very different from mom + son mc. I'd love to know what, it's always interesting to hear about the kinks you don't have and can't understand.

some look specifically for the abuse and degradation of the 'love' interest. in those cases I'd think the point is having the most sacred or innocently pure heroines to corrupt. if abusing a non-related person does it for you, clearly abusing a family member takes that one step further. this seems very logical.

the asshole big sisters seem to either be about having a 'justifiable' emotional ground to abuse them (the opposide of innocent/sacred heroines), so being a monster wouldn't feel bad. the other case is submissive players looking to be abused by trong and mean heroines. often games mix these two which rarely works. probably never. - maybe should be pointed out that these are power relation reversals as well.

how female protagonist versions of these work are a complete mystery to me. often I see people say they're not identifying with the female mc (even when player herself is female) but with the abusers. but it doesn't make sense to me because then I'd assume they'd be playing games where mc is the abuser. not a helpless victing stumbling from rape to another. but it's probably because I don't have the kink so I can't understand the mental mechanics.


TLDR: most cases seem to hit on role reversals, not a hidden desire to fuck your own relatives.

 

[Adabelitoo]

I stand by my opinion though. It seems like a standard go-to. It lacks nuance, you know how it ends. As a game designer I feel you and I get it that you are offended... But a great, unique story needs suspense, mystery, uncertainty of outcome, choices that matter... not cheap cliches like incest.

It seems like you're missing fundamental here, in my opinion at least.

Why you think that: great, unique story needs suspense, mystery, uncertainty of outcome, choices that matter != incest?

Incest is just a fetish, there is no reason why an incest story can't have that great, unique story with suspense, mystery, uncertainty of outcome, choices that matter that you mention. Incest in itself doesn't deny or confirm any of the things you think make a good game. None of the fetish deny or confirm those things. If you played a few incest games with boring/bad stories or you just don't like incest and tend to find it boring in general then that's on you.

If you really don't see how an incest game could had those elements you think make a game good, then you're lacking creativity too.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

I also think that if you approach a game like this with a "moral judgment hat" on, as though evaluating these scenarios as if you were witnessing them IRL, then you're probably missing the point. It's fantasy/escapism, not reality. It may bear a passing resemblance to reality, but it clearly isn't. I mean, most teenagers' moms don't look like they just walked out of a music video or fashion runway. They are deliberately, ridiculously attractive, in part to help make the mc's attraction seem more plausible. The gradual breakdown of the mother/sisters/aunts/cousins/grandmothers' internal barriers to committing incest are often part of the storyline.
Many of the people who are put off by the incest elements may also be put off by the main characters usually being quite young(typically under the age of 22). The main characters of these games typically run around seducing several women without being open and honest about their promiscuity--wouldn't that also be morally objectionable or off-putting?

 

[kandrew123]

Depends on the plot for me, sometimes it's just for the taboo, othertimes it's for my drama-boner, when they actually worry about their future.

 

[woody554]

I stand by my opinion though. It seems like a standard go-to. It lacks nuance, you know how it ends. As a game designer I feel you and I get it that you are offended... But a great, unique story needs suspense, mystery, uncertainty of outcome, choices that matter... not cheap cliches like incest.

this sounds more like you just don't have the kink than the genre was somehow inferior. nothing wrong with that. but imagine we were talking about leather military boots fetish, and you said something similar.

like "why is every military boot fetish game about new recruits being abused by sadistic officers? that just seems lazy and lacking creativity."

the obvious answer is because that's the genre, that's the exact fetish the people who have a thing for military boots are looking for. none of them give a flying fuck about a weird 'mafia plot' some 'creative' dev wants to cram down their throats.

similarly we always see the people without incest kink suggesting the overwhelmingly most popular incest house scenario is somehow inferior to some 'more creative options', yet we NEVER see that work in the real world. every time I see one of those 'more creative storylines', the incest is either a cheap glued-on afterthought to get the incest tag, or the completely off-kink plot is nothing I would ever read without being tag-baited. instead of the thing I'm looking for I'm forced to click through hours of scenes about bad scifi plot or mafia stuff or a 'just a super navy seal doing navy seal stuff'.

what people suggesting these scenarios don't seem to get is that their audience is mostly only interested with things happening between the family members, relationship stuff in family settings. how it plays out in the most iconic place for family stuff, the home. the second you take it outside home you're already making it less. take the family to a yacht or a holiday resort and you lose stuff like mom doing laundry. and while doing laundry might sound incredibly boring to a non-incest fan, it is exactly things like that which frame the mom role as 'the mom'. if you instead make the mom a secret agent invading the volcano HQ of dr. evil, she's not playing the role of 'mom' anymore, which was the only reason the character exists.

 

[Someone]

...that intrigues people so much? It seems that in porn and virtual novels it is the new norm. As a son, brother and single father it is not my thing, but it seems that there is a popular demand.
I wonder why.?

Easy cohabitation situation.

 

[woody554]

dead dads in incest games. I don't get why you guys always complaining about it want the dad in game? what is his function? why would anyone add a character that has zero use, write and render hours of stuff for him every day? I don't get it. do you want to fuck him? is that the point? just say that instead. or do you want to get cucked by him? say that. because both of those things exist and have tags telling it to you.

also people can point you to games featuring getting fucked by dad. you're not gonna find it in a game with an absent dad. whatever your reasons, stop complaining about a missing dad in a game that has no use for a dad character. it's not a coincidence he's killed in the intro, it's a subtle hint that the game is not featuring dad stuff.

another complaint I keep seeing is complaining about shower peeping and night creeping. I only have one question for you: did the game, or did it not, have the tag 'voyerism'? because if it did, and they always do, you're complaining about voyerism in a voyerism game.

don't get me wrong, it's totally okay not liking voyerism. but if it's a deliberate part of the game to serve the people looking for voyerism... what the hell are you complaining about?

 

[desmosome]

how it works for dad mc + daughter I couldn't say, I don't go that way. for me that power relation is the exact opposite of what's hot, the stronger going for the weaker which is just abusive. often the problem is dealt with making the weaker (non-mc) party be the initiator, but that just makes the dad mc insufferably patronizing. I assume the people looking for these scenarios look for something very different from mom + son mc. I'd love to know what, it's always interesting to hear about the kinks you don't have and can't understand.

Sexually conquering your precious daughter who you should cherish and protect is pretty twisted and hot. Here, it's more of a reversal of expectations.

There are also the "romance" types where the MC is unaware that he is a creep. Those are almost always cringy though.

 

[nobrumski]

I think the biggest thing I don't get about the kink is the step after into an ongoing relationship. I get the buildup and the tension, but once it is turned into a relationship it always loses me.

 

[woody554]

I think the biggest thing I don't get about the kink is the step after into an ongoing relationship. I get the buildup and the tension, but once it is turned into a relationship it always loses me.

that really applies to all romance stories, doesn't it? when they finally get together, it's the end of the movie.

you could then kill one of them, and go on from there. maybe mc needs to go to hell to get the love interest back. eventually you get them back though and you hit the wall again. and this really doesn't work for porn I think, because the suspense isn't about the romance anymore. a fine idea for an adventure story, but for sex the adventure only distracts from the relationship story.

it's difficult in any case. what makes the mundane home life initially work in the incest scenario is the underlying tension of forbidden sex. but after you're a couple, mom loading the washer is just mom doing chores. the forbidden fruit is not forbidden anymore.

that's also my problem with games with early sex or slutty characters. the game is already over, and you just started.

 

[nobrumski]

that really applies to all romance stories, doesn't it? when they finally get together, it's the end of the movie.

you could then kill one of them, and go on from there. maybe mc needs to go to hell to get the love interest back. eventually you get them back though and you hit the wall again. and this really doesn't work for porn I think, because the suspense isn't about the romance anymore. a fine idea for an adventure story, but for sex the adventure only distracts from the relationship story.

it's difficult in any case. what makes the mundane home life initially work in the incest scenario is the underlying tension of forbidden sex. but after you're a couple, mom loading the washer is just mom doing chores. the forbidden fruit is not forbidden anymore.

that's also my problem with games with early sex or slutty characters. the game is already over, and you just started.

Yeah like you said it's difficult which is why it never made sense with incest for me. I think in some ways it is one of the few ways to have an adult relationship that is taboo without necessarily involving cheating. If anything it seemed more a way of mutual self discovery and growth rather than pursing a relationship, something greater than a booty call, but not the early stages of a developing romance. It especially throws me off when they discuss it in public.

I think it is why I never really enjoyed corruption in them at least when it was corrupting the younger member especially when it comes from parent to child. The reverse though I don't have a problem with since it is more an adult knowing it is wrong and giving in rather than taking advantage. I also feel the same with teacher to student, but not student to teacher though I can see why people enjoy it.

I would rather have a slow buildup where the tension slowly builds and each act seems to have some lines the characters have to weigh crossing, and the game ending as they move on than the game dragging out as the MC tries to pursue a familial relationship.

 

[khumak]

For me it's really just the taboo that increases the appeal. You're not supposed to think about that, so of course I'm going to think about it... In my case I tend to have a thing for fucking a couple of sisters or a mother/daughter pair who are blood related to each other but not to me. For someone blood related to me it just holds no appeal despite the taboo.

Same sort of thing for things like rape fantasies, blackmail, coercion, fucking your buddy's wife, etc. Most of that stuff I would have no interest in doing IRL but that doesn't mean I haven't fantasized about some of those scenarios. It's no different than the enjoyment I get out of playing a game where I'm a drug dealer or a criminal. It's fun to be the bad guy sometimes. I would never do that in real life but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy pretending.

Most of the games I play are violent as hell and yet I've never done anything violent in real life since high school (used to get into fights when I was young). Fantasy is just that, it has absolutely nothing to do with real life. It's entertainment. It's no different than when you're having a particularly fucked up dream about something you wouldn't want to do and wake up when things get too crazy.

I've had hot female bosses that were total bitches before. I feel no guilt whatsoever about the rape fantasies I've imagined involving them. In reality I just move to another team or wait til they get fired or move to some other team themselves. I've had male bullies I've literally fantasized about murdering. I would never actually do it but it was satisfying to think about.

If games or any other form of media were a window into what people actually wanted to do in real life then most video game players are secretly psychopaths who are on the verge of becoming mass murderers. Same thing for anyone who enjoys action movies.

 

[Silver]

I think because it's hard to satisfy in real world. so people turn into fantasy world, like porn videos, and visual novels. I guess it's better they keep it to fantasy world, because incest, which leads to inbreeding can seriously ruin the family lineage, and even societies. A good example for that is the number of hereditary diseases Fins have. It's all caused by the population bottleneck.

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[woody554]

I think because it's hard to satisfy in real world. so people turn into fantasy world, like porn videos, and visual novels. I guess it's better they keep it to fantasy world, because incest, which leads to inbreeding can seriously ruin the family lineage, and even societies. A good example for that is the number of heritage diseases Fins have. It's all caused by the population bottleneck.

You must be registered to see the links

lol, that has nothing to do with incest. incest happens between people who are related closer than cousins. you are talking about the totality of the finnish people having a joint genetic background. 6 million individuals. what your link is about is that finnic peoples have been genetically isolated for thousands and thousand of years. completely different thing.

I'm finnish, and as a people we're old as fuck. and because of THAT we're the ONLY european people who are meaningfully genetically different from other europeans. that's why we have a different set of hereditary diseases, not because we were fucking our family members. and we also lack tons of diseases everybody else has and have the highest sperm count in europe. in other words, we're objectively more fertile than other europeans. now if you still wanna claim that difference is because of incest (it isn't), you're left with no other conclusion than incest made us more fertile than anybody else in europe.

 

[おい！]

lol, that has nothing to do with incest. incest happens between people who are related closer than cousins. you are talking about the totality of the finnish people having a joint genetic background. 6 million individuals. what your link is about is that finnic peoples have been genetically isolated for thousands and thousand of years. completely different thing.

I'm finnish, and as a people we're old as fuck. and because of THAT we're the ONLY european people who are meaningfully genetically different from other europeans. that's why we have a different set of hereditary diseases, not because we were fucking our family members. and we also lack tons of diseases everybody else has and have the highest sperm count in europe. in other words, we're objectively more fertile than other europeans. now if you still wanna claim that difference is because of incest (it isn't), you're left with no other conclusion than incest made us more fertile than anybody else in europe.

Well you are not genetically different, you have been part of Sweden and then part of Russia, you did not become independent until 1917. As for being more fertile, of course you are talking total bollocks.

 

[Silver]

lol, that has nothing to do with incest. incest happens between people who are related closer than cousins. you are talking about the totality of the finnish people having a joint genetic background. 6 million individuals. what your link is about is that finnic peoples have been genetically isolated for thousands and thousand of years. completely different thing.

I'm finnish, and as a people we're old as fuck. and because of THAT we're the ONLY european people who are meaningfully genetically different from other europeans. that's why we have a different set of hereditary diseases, not because we were fucking our family members. and we also lack tons of diseases everybody else has and have the highest sperm count in europe. in other words, we're objectively more fertile than other europeans. now if you still wanna claim that difference is because of incest (it isn't), you're left with no other conclusion than incest made us more fertile than anybody else in europe.

It's not due to incest, but population bottleneck, which also reduces the genetic diversity as same as incest. If Fins had practised inbreeding, it would have been worst. Certainly fins can't be blamed for this because they were isolated from rest of the europe at that time, but it's a nice case study to learn how lack of genetic diversity can lead to hereditary diseases, and other health problems.

 

[researchpurposes]

Why do people seriously answer this?

 

[ZillaMula]

...that intrigues people so much? It seems that in porn and virtual novels it is the new norm. As a son, brother and single father it is not my thing, but it seems that there is a popular demand.
I wonder why.?

the most used tag in porn history is mom and son so many people are into that.

 

[Adabelitoo]

the most used tag in porn history is mom and son so many people are into that.

I highly disagree with this. Show me sites where mom-son or incest is the most used tag, and by sites I mean porn sites not specialized in incest.

but it's a nice case study to learn how lack of genetic diversity can lead to hereditary diseases, and other health problems.

If I understood woody554 correctly, they don't have "hereditary diseases" or at least they don't have more or less than you and me, they just have "another set" of hereditary diseases so you and I with our "no lack" of genetic diversity have as much "hereditary diseases" than them but just a different set, so we are pretty much in the same position than them. Also, if their lack of genetic diversity lead to "other health problems", he said that they lack a lot of diseases that everyone else have so their lack of genetic diversity lead to "other health benefits" as well.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

that really applies to all romance stories, doesn't it? when they finally get together, it's the end of the movie.

you could then kill one of them, and go on from there. maybe mc needs to go to hell to get the love interest back. eventually you get them back though and you hit the wall again. and this really doesn't work for porn I think, because the suspense isn't about the romance anymore. a fine idea for an adventure story, but for sex the adventure only distracts from the relationship story.

it's difficult in any case. what makes the mundane home life initially work in the incest scenario is the underlying tension of forbidden sex. but after you're a couple, mom loading the washer is just mom doing chores. the forbidden fruit is not forbidden anymore.

that's also my problem with games with early sex or slutty characters. the game is already over, and you just started.

You can continue to escalate--group incest, impregnation, bdsm, anal, sex in public places, etc. If you're chasing the taboo, then you have to keep pushing the boundaries further and further.