Views on Netorare

[tanstaafl]

Well, that's why NTR has been generally treated more as a corruption than a cuckolding genre in hentai. Like I pointed out in a previous post, the genre has its roots as a parodic perversion of the shounen romance genre and its highly idealized potrayal of true love.

I was speaking more to the fact that the npc doing the corrupting had zero interest in the lady. Zero interest in power over her. Zero interest in the sex even. The entirety of the motivation was "they're happy, I'm going to destroy that." This is not a common trope in the older NTR that I remember (and I'm an old guy, heh). Most of the OG NTR that I remember from h-manga had to do primarily with 1. Sexual corruption/awakening. 2. Punishing a boring MC. 3. Plain old power/corruption. It was written to be painful, to give a twist to the guts, but still have recognizable human emotions involved. The sociopathy involved with simply ruining happiness was not common until relatively recent releases.

 

[DS23G]

I was speaking more to the fact that the npc doing the corrupting had zero interest in the lady. Zero interest in power over her. Zero interest in the sex even. The entirety of the motivation was "they're happy, I'm going to destroy that." This is not a common trope in the older NTR that I remember (and I'm an old guy, heh). Most of the OG NTR that I remember from h-manga had to do primarily with 1. Sexual corruption/awakening. 2. Punishing a boring MC. 3. Plain old power/corruption. It was written to be painful, to give a twist to the guts, but still have recognizable human emotions involved. The sociopathy involved with simply ruining happiness was not common until relatively recent releases.

I see what you mean now. I wouldn't really read too much into

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though. The author probably just threw it in to hammer home that the antagonist is a dick, who'd say stuff like that to piss the wife off while he knows she can't do shit about it and still has to do his bidding. I mean, the guy already decided to fuck her before he knew she was in a relationship, using her as a stand-in for the prostitute. So he's clearly in it for the sex.

 

[tanstaafl]

I see what you mean now. I wouldn't really read too much into

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though. The author probably just threw it in to hammer home that the antagonist is a dick, who'd say stuff like that to piss the wife off while he knows she can't do shit about it and still has to do his bidding. I mean, the guy already decided to fuck her before he knew she was in a relationship, using her as a stand-in for the prostitute. So he's clearly in it for the sex.

We could spend days debating on original motivation and evolved motivations in manga and do nothing but spin our wheels. Most of the time it's never clear enough to get a solid read on motivation unless you are talking to the actual author. That said though, I think we've both established what we feel about the genre satisfactorily.

 

[Deleted member 609064]

Yeah, we're talking about adults with fully developed brains here. If I found someone who actually thought about breaking in people of the age you are talking about I'd personally light them on fire, after flaying them.

Sadly, my friend, this stuff is more common than we might like to think. The US Marshalls just busted up another human trafficking ring of children in Georgia last week.

And that's the stuff we hear about. Countless women have told me about being molested by brothers, cousins, uncles, etc when they were very young. It is hard stuff to hear about.

That's the trick. Aggressive seduction, dominant corruption, negging, etc, these are all things that will fill the NTR niche and are actual real methods used by real people. IRL they're assholes, but still. Raping people with giant dicks until they like it is not a thing. It has never been a thing. This covers 99.99% of all humans, this isn't even debatable. Just because there's that .01% that are so fucked in the head from previous traumas doesn't make it a thing.

Again, psychopaths and dangerous narcists are a real thing. There are people out there who look for other people to prey on, it is usually men preying on women but occasionally a female narcissist will look for a weaker or vulnerable man (or woman) to dominate.

Well, that's why NTR has been generally treated more as a corruption than a cuckolding genre in hentai. Like I pointed out in a previous post, the genre has its roots as a parodic perversion of the shounen romance genre and its highly idealized potrayal of true love.

Yes, that is how I have seen it, probably because I got into NTR through old-school hentai content.

Problem is that I'm into it for the corruption, so if she's out there hunting for dick and/or her relationship is already cold, it becomes just cheating to me and not the NTR I'm looking for.

Got it. I am really into the psychology of the characters in a story. What motivates them. What shapes their responses.

I was speaking more to the fact that the npc doing the corrupting had zero interest in the lady. Zero interest in power over her. Zero interest in the sex even. The entirety of the motivation was "they're happy, I'm going to destroy that." This is not a common trope in the older NTR that I remember (and I'm an old guy, heh). Most of the OG NTR that I remember from h-manga had to do primarily with 1. Sexual corruption/awakening. 2. Punishing a boring MC. 3. Plain old power/corruption. It was written to be painful, to give a twist to the guts, but still have recognizable human emotions involved. The sociopathy involved with simply ruining happiness was not common until relatively recent releases.

There is some very good NTR produced today that is based on domination and corruption without the psychopathy. I'd say most of Firolian's NTR hits that spot well.

 

[tanstaafl]

Again, psychopaths and dangerous narcists are a real thing. There are people out there who look for other people to prey on, it is usually men preying on women but occasionally a female narcissist will look for a weaker or vulnerable man (or woman) to dominate.

That's never been in doubt. It's the part where they're depicted as raping people until they like it where it falls down. That doesn't happen to women with fully developed, normal brains. It's not a thing. It's a fantasy. If that's a person's kink, that's fine, but it isn't mine for sure.

There is some very good NTR produced today that is based on domination and corruption without the psychopathy. I'd say most of Firolian's NTR hits that spot well.

Eh, I'm familiar with his work. His art is stellar, but the stories are bland. He's also about 50/50 on the "rape 'em till you break 'em" NTR. Not one of my favorites.

 

[BunBun Inc]

As the first post mentions, I don't mind games that have a threat of NTR but I would appreciate if the the player had the option to avoid if possible. Don't touch games where NTR is pretty much part of the story and the MC has to witness it. Would give it a pass if the story is really good and had me hooked to the point I wouldn't mind my blood boiling for a minute or two while the scene plays out

 

[Deleted member 609064]

As the first post mentions, I don't mind games that have a threat of NTR but I would appreciate if the the player had the option to avoid if possible. Don't touch games where NTR is pretty much part of the story and the MC has to witness it. Would give it a pass if the story is really good and had me hooked to the point I wouldn't mind my blood boiling for a minute or two while the scene plays out

That's a lot of work to remove it or build another parallel storyline that doesn't have any of it.

When I write, I try to write my best story. I don't write 3 or 5 parallel stories based on how someone wants to read it. I know a handful of devs do, but more often than not such laborious projects don't really get completed.

 

[Terrygun]

I even hate "avoidable NTR" since 99% of the time it's a lie, since if someone went to the effort to put in NTR, they most likely focused most of the content around it. So, while the game will technically give you the opportunity to avoid the NTR, it usually involves a significant amount of grinding while on a tightrope and for all of your efforts it will show you 2-3 of the 20-30 H-scenes in the game.

Summer shattering is good example of such games. You can't leave the heroine alone too long before the NTR route starts and the vanilla route doesn't have much to offer compared to the rest of the available routes.

So bored I tried to see how much I can push in the NTR route, but didn't complete it.

So like others said, when I can disconnect from the MC I enjoy the NTR content more. And the reason I enjoyed here was due to NTRman's game Mitsuki lessons. It is a NTR game, I still enjoyed playing the game.

 

[ChaosOpen]

Since nobody had ever made such a game, I decided to make my own, a reverse NTR. That's right, you're playing a man who is cucking his wife by sleeping with other women.(spoiler: it is netorase and he never leaves his life, sorry for those looking for cruelty, turns out rational adults don't make decisions based entirely on short-term sexual pleasure)

https://f95zone.to/threads/whats-mine-is-yours-v1-0-vitalsigns.60442/#post-4091687

 

[Pal_]

I enjoy it, and I don´t understand, why people personal feel offended, when they play a game and experience such things. I like competition and difficulty in a game. And I play these games as a curious third party viewer, who is interested in the reaction of the people and nothing else. Of course, I´d completely dislike it, if something like that would happen to me in real life

 

[tanstaafl]

rational adults don't make decisions based entirely on short-term sexual pleasure)

https://f95zone.to/threads/whats-mine-is-yours-v1-0-vitalsigns.60442/#post-4091687

I would say that a good chunk of "rational adults" marriages end over an instance of "short term sexual pleasure". It's called "cheating" in the real world and most people won't respond well to it if married.

Edit: A quick google shows that 20-40% of all divorces in America list infidelity as the cause.

 

[ChaosOpen]

I would say that a good chunk of "rational adults" marriages end over an instance of "short term sexual pleasure". It's called "cheating" in the real world and most people won't respond well to it if married.

Edit: A quick google shows that 20-40% of all divorces in America list infidelity as the cause.

Yeah, but look at the type of relationships in NTR games and actual cheating.

 

[tanstaafl]

Yeah, but look at the type of relationships in NTR games and actual cheating.

As mentioned early in the thread. NTR originally made its way into manga as a way to undermine the normal, loving relationship trope that was popular in Japanese manga at the time. A normal, vanilla couple that has everything turned upside down by the destruction of that love. Netorare (unwilling cuck) frequently involves force and rape in this destruction. It is by far my least favorite form of NTR, but also the most common to find in manga NTR. Netorase (willing cuck) is much, much rarer. Netori (the MC does the stealing) is somewhere in the middle.

 

[greenlittleman]

That's the trick. Aggressive seduction, dominant corruption, negging, etc, these are all things that will fill the NTR niche and are actual real methods used by real people. IRL they're assholes, but still. Raping people with giant dicks until they like it is not a thing. It has never been a thing. This covers 99.99% of all humans, this isn't even debatable. Just because there's that .01% that are so fucked in the head from previous traumas doesn't make it a thing.

You are right, but also somehow wrong. Google the statistics of how many women orgasm while being sexually assaulted. Google any "narcissist victims" forum. The vast majority of guys who rape IRL aren't good at sex, they completely suck and just desperate losers, so why the hell you expect them to make their victims "like it", lol.

But making a girl addicted to great sex and endure an unequal relationship where a guy cheats and treats her without any respect? It happens all the time, I know a few couples like this as well. When you are great at sex (dominant, can last for a long time, know how to do oral, etc) girls become extremely submissive and they forgive you a lot. I wouldn't be surprised if in some cases they even forgive rape. By the way, rape isn't the same. There are different variations of it. If a hot girl blackmails a guy loyal to his gf to cheat with her then there is a chance that he'll fall for this girl and wouldn't be bothered with the blackmail part anymore. Why do you think that it is impossible with genders reversed? Have you heard about Stockholm syndrome? This is not an exception, but rather a rule. Also, I don't get why you put negging and "aggressive seduction" at the same level as sexual assault, lol. As someone who was with tens of girls (30-40), I can assure you that not treating girls seriously, teasing, and negging them are the most effective ways to get laid and to make girls fall in love with you. Being nice and complimenting them could kill all attraction very fast. It is something any guy who was with enough women knows.

Anyway, if you want to know why many people consider this "raped until she enjoys it" hot as fuck then I can explain. Basically, a girl usually resists the guy because "she isn't a slut, but a loyal and conservative girl". But sex is so good that she becomes a slut and so she has no reason to resist anymore, in fact, she loves the sex so much that she forgives her abuser. Her morality loses to pleasure from sex. You assume that girls hate sex and say no because they wouldn't enjoy it. But no, in fact, women get more pleasure from sex than men do. But they are conditioned by our society and, to some extent, biology, to maintain their unavailability and pickiness about men. Sexual corruption is one of the most popular genres for a reason. It isn't about rape, but about seeing how a good girl becomes a total slut. Realistic rape (where girls cry and suffer and never enjoy it) is one of the least popular genres. Most guys don't want to see a girl dominated by fear and pain, we want to see how girls are dominated by pleasure.

I'm also not sure why you assume that guys who enjoy hentai with rape actually think that it is something that should be done IRL, lol. Do you even understand that Japan has one of the lowest sexual crime rates in the whole world? It is proof enough that porn helps to prevent sexual crimes and that people can distinguish reality from fantasy.

 

[tanstaafl]

I'm also not sure why you assume that guys who enjoy hentai with rape actually think that it is something that should be done IRL, lol.

I think it was this thread that I pointed out that for the vast majority of people that enjoy NTR it's just a kink and that's fine, but there are a few off comments on manga, hentai, and even game sites that give the impression that they believe this can happen. And yes, women can orgasm during the act, but the problem comes in when you realize that orgasms don't actually change people's personalities.

 

[greenlittleman]

I think it was this thread that I pointed out that for the vast majority of people that enjoy NTR it's just a kink and that's fine, but there are a few off comments on manga, hentai, and even game sites that give the impression that they believe this can happen. And yes, women can orgasm during the act, but the problem comes in when you realize that orgasms don't actually change people's personalities.

It could and does happen, but this isn't something that should be done or could be done consistently. There are many people who aren't emotionally healthy and there are such a thing as Stockholm syndrome. Those aren't as rare as you claim. There are cases when girls start to actually date dudes who raped them or those who are raped and abused by their husband/bf but still continue to be with them. There are many mentally unstable people out there, men or women. People often stay in a relationship even after being physically assaulted more than once. And, depending on a person, orgasm can actually change someone's personality, there are such things as sex addiction and nymphomania. Of course, it is way more common for someone to change because of drugs and, unlike hentai, IRL men are rarely able to make women orgasm over and over again.

 

[tanstaafl]

It could and does happen, but this isn't something that should be done or could be done consistently. There are many people who aren't emotionally healthy and there are such a thing as Stockholm syndrome. Those aren't as rare as you claim. There are cases when girls start to actually date dudes who raped them or those who are raped and abused by their husband/bf but still continue to be with them. There are many mentally unstable people out there, men or women. People often stay in a relationship even after being physically assaulted more than once. And, depending on a person, orgasm can actually change someone's personality, there are such things as sex addiction and nymphomania. Of course, it is way more common for someone to change because of drugs and, unlike hentai, IRL men are rarely able to make women orgasm over and over again.

And here, ladies and gentleman, is what I'm talking about. An example of a person that thinks you can rape people until they like you.

 

[Deleted member 609064]

And here, ladies and gentleman, is what I'm talking about. An example of a person that thinks you can rape people until they like you.

I participate in a community with men and women who have been abused and in relationships with Narcissists and Psychopaths.

What he wrote, I think, is true in some cases.

Btw, humans being the way there are, there is someone out there in the world with any opinion you could possibly imagine. Anything is possible when it comes to the attitudes and ideas held by human beings.

 

[tanstaafl]

What he wrote, I think, is true in some cases.

And some people are serial killers. You can find almost any kind of oddity out there, but you have to look at probabilities and percentages. The number of serial killers vs regular humans is probably .000001%. But we think there are a ton of them because they get noticed when caught. And I'd bet you just about anything that the number of women that can be raped into liking it are longer odds than that.

 

[Deleted member 609064]

And some people are serial killers. You can find almost any kind of oddity out there, but you have to look at probabilities and percentages. The number of serial killers vs regular humans is probably .000001%. But we think there are a ton of them because they get noticed when caught. And I'd bet you just about anything that the number of women that can be raped into liking it are longer odds than that.

A claim that is 0.000000000001% true is still true.

If you heard the stories of what some people (male and female) have gone through sexually you'd probably feel like puking while sobbing.

This line of discussion is not very sexy or entertaining. I get a lot of people are bothered by rape and NTR. Luckily for them, all of the content on this site is tagged if it has those themes in it. They can avoid it.