- Sep 24, 2017
- 72
- 64
Progress Report and Peek Behind the Curtain
Like Karen before her, F7 has proven a surprisingly deep source of inspiration (and thus content/feature creep) for Bowei and myself, so we're pushing it back further (to early March) to include everything we want.
Since this is the second time this has happened and contradicts previous claims that F7 would be a small floor on a quick dev cycle, I want to give a retrospective timeline showing how our dev process actually works.
May 2018 plans:
- While working on Lady Cobra, Bowei sends me draft of an "Elite" teaser enemy (Karen)
- Plan is for 5.5F (Lily) to be a short palette cleanser (think original 1F) with like 5 CGs
- 6F would be a short release where Karen quickly beats you up in one fight
- 6.5F would be a large, complex floor (think actual Karen) with a character of my design (who is currently planned for 8F)
What actually happened:
- I expand Lily's original vision by giving her a pseudo-floor
- Bo runs with this, giving her far more (and far better animated) CGs than originally planned)
- As a result, Lily is delayed
July 2018:
- Lily and Khulan Expansion are released
- 6F planned for August/Sept
- Bo creates a single-encounter Karen but feels it's too sparse for such an important character (after the relative dephth of "filler" Lily)
- As a result, Bo decides to give Karen a full floor and she is delayed
August/Sept 2018:
- Bo prepared Karen's playground and the Monk stuff, but feels the complexity of the hostage/betting mechanic is undercut by there being nothing else to really do on the floor
- As a result, he starts working on "side-quests" (like her Bedroom, Money Gambling, Sewer, etc.), and she is further delayed
Oct/Nov 2018:
- Bo finishes Karen but decides to add some extra oomph with the dramatic turn at the end of the floor
- I'm partially to "blame" for this as the "shonen" mechanic was originally planned for my own floor but we decided to introduce it on 6F
- The large amount of content also means a large amount of play-testing and such
- Bo has of course also been helping me with Expansion CGs/playtesting/etc. for the last few months
- As a result, Karen is further delayed
This is a good spot to mention that neither Bo nor I are professional coders. While it's not always obvious on the front-end, both designing, coding, and testing the mechanics we've added to the game (many of which highly contort or otherwise push the limits of RPGM) also takes time. In Karen's case, this includes everything from her map movement to her combo chains to making sure there were no holes in the many outcomes to her floor. The good news we've both improved a lot, which means we can do previously difficult stuff much faster, as well as be even more ambitious with future floors.
Dec 2018:
- Bo sends me 6F for finishing touches and begins work on 7F
- Like Bo originally, I found certain spots of 6F too sparse and tweaked/added things, so you can blame Karen's final delay on me if you want
- 6F is finally released; people for the most part seem satisfied with the aggregate content between July and December (Karen, Expansions, EX Mode, Seasonal, etc.)
- Bo is underwhelmed with the response to Karen and wants to try making 7F "simple" to determine if slower/complex floors are worth the trouble
- Bo estimates an early January release for 7F
- Bo also asks me to write a script for a Miss Claus CG he drew for fun and release a small Xmas Update
- We decide it's tough writing a character around 1 CG so he draws me a few more
- Wistfully reminiscing on playing Brood War "Bound" Custom Maps, I also decide to try designing a minigame for fun
- As a result, Miss Claus is delayed from Xmas Day to ~New Years
- Devoting more time to Miss Claus also indirectly delays 7F somewhat
Jan 2019:
- Miss Claus is released
- Bo continues to work on 7F but ultimately feels it's too simplistic; I agree
- Bo begins expanding 7F's mechanics while I make the script more robust
- Bo mentions to me that he doesn't think it's possible to return to 30-45 day floors
- As a result, 7F is delayed
Feb 2019:
- Bo and I have a strong outline of the floor flow
- Bo wants to include some features which have no native RPGM support and devotes a lot of time to improving his coding
- Bo successfully adds these features (and they're amazing; get hype) and asks me for further script support
- 7F has been proceeding smoothly since then
- Bo thinks we can technically finish by Feb 28, but can make it even better with more time (and I agree)
- As a result, 7F is delayed
Three main points here:
a) We don't delay things arbitrarily or pull dates out of a hat. It's almost always a matter of finishing (or approaching the end) of the intended content and not being satisfied with the result. Obviously that doesn't mean you can't be disappointed/angry about the delays anyway, though. Ultimately your satisfication with our overall progress/work-ethic is up to you.
b) There will likely be a 60 day minimum between major releases for the forseeable future. Bo tried to go back to a 30-45 cycle and didn't like it, two fo the next three floors (after 7F) will likely be mine: one being fairly complex and the other being outright massive. We might always change our mind or get inspired to do a small project, expansion, or diversion, but measure your expectations accordingly.
c) Bo and I both care a lot about our work and we hope that's evident when you play each release.
As always, thanks for your patience and support. Feel free to contact us on Discord or Patreon with any questions.
tl;dr
7F - Scheduled for March 10
Expect at least 60 days between major updates (full floors) going forward
Please find a modest teaser for 7F below:
Like Karen before her, F7 has proven a surprisingly deep source of inspiration (and thus content/feature creep) for Bowei and myself, so we're pushing it back further (to early March) to include everything we want.
Since this is the second time this has happened and contradicts previous claims that F7 would be a small floor on a quick dev cycle, I want to give a retrospective timeline showing how our dev process actually works.
May 2018 plans:
- While working on Lady Cobra, Bowei sends me draft of an "Elite" teaser enemy (Karen)
- Plan is for 5.5F (Lily) to be a short palette cleanser (think original 1F) with like 5 CGs
- 6F would be a short release where Karen quickly beats you up in one fight
- 6.5F would be a large, complex floor (think actual Karen) with a character of my design (who is currently planned for 8F)
What actually happened:
- I expand Lily's original vision by giving her a pseudo-floor
- Bo runs with this, giving her far more (and far better animated) CGs than originally planned)
- As a result, Lily is delayed
July 2018:
- Lily and Khulan Expansion are released
- 6F planned for August/Sept
- Bo creates a single-encounter Karen but feels it's too sparse for such an important character (after the relative dephth of "filler" Lily)
- As a result, Bo decides to give Karen a full floor and she is delayed
August/Sept 2018:
- Bo prepared Karen's playground and the Monk stuff, but feels the complexity of the hostage/betting mechanic is undercut by there being nothing else to really do on the floor
- As a result, he starts working on "side-quests" (like her Bedroom, Money Gambling, Sewer, etc.), and she is further delayed
Oct/Nov 2018:
- Bo finishes Karen but decides to add some extra oomph with the dramatic turn at the end of the floor
- I'm partially to "blame" for this as the "shonen" mechanic was originally planned for my own floor but we decided to introduce it on 6F
- The large amount of content also means a large amount of play-testing and such
- Bo has of course also been helping me with Expansion CGs/playtesting/etc. for the last few months
- As a result, Karen is further delayed
This is a good spot to mention that neither Bo nor I are professional coders. While it's not always obvious on the front-end, both designing, coding, and testing the mechanics we've added to the game (many of which highly contort or otherwise push the limits of RPGM) also takes time. In Karen's case, this includes everything from her map movement to her combo chains to making sure there were no holes in the many outcomes to her floor. The good news we've both improved a lot, which means we can do previously difficult stuff much faster, as well as be even more ambitious with future floors.
Dec 2018:
- Bo sends me 6F for finishing touches and begins work on 7F
- Like Bo originally, I found certain spots of 6F too sparse and tweaked/added things, so you can blame Karen's final delay on me if you want
- 6F is finally released; people for the most part seem satisfied with the aggregate content between July and December (Karen, Expansions, EX Mode, Seasonal, etc.)
- Bo is underwhelmed with the response to Karen and wants to try making 7F "simple" to determine if slower/complex floors are worth the trouble
- Bo estimates an early January release for 7F
- Bo also asks me to write a script for a Miss Claus CG he drew for fun and release a small Xmas Update
- We decide it's tough writing a character around 1 CG so he draws me a few more
- Wistfully reminiscing on playing Brood War "Bound" Custom Maps, I also decide to try designing a minigame for fun
- As a result, Miss Claus is delayed from Xmas Day to ~New Years
- Devoting more time to Miss Claus also indirectly delays 7F somewhat
Jan 2019:
- Miss Claus is released
- Bo continues to work on 7F but ultimately feels it's too simplistic; I agree
- Bo begins expanding 7F's mechanics while I make the script more robust
- Bo mentions to me that he doesn't think it's possible to return to 30-45 day floors
- As a result, 7F is delayed
Feb 2019:
- Bo and I have a strong outline of the floor flow
- Bo wants to include some features which have no native RPGM support and devotes a lot of time to improving his coding
- Bo successfully adds these features (and they're amazing; get hype) and asks me for further script support
- 7F has been proceeding smoothly since then
- Bo thinks we can technically finish by Feb 28, but can make it even better with more time (and I agree)
- As a result, 7F is delayed
Three main points here:
a) We don't delay things arbitrarily or pull dates out of a hat. It's almost always a matter of finishing (or approaching the end) of the intended content and not being satisfied with the result. Obviously that doesn't mean you can't be disappointed/angry about the delays anyway, though. Ultimately your satisfication with our overall progress/work-ethic is up to you.
b) There will likely be a 60 day minimum between major releases for the forseeable future. Bo tried to go back to a 30-45 cycle and didn't like it, two fo the next three floors (after 7F) will likely be mine: one being fairly complex and the other being outright massive. We might always change our mind or get inspired to do a small project, expansion, or diversion, but measure your expectations accordingly.
c) Bo and I both care a lot about our work and we hope that's evident when you play each release.
As always, thanks for your patience and support. Feel free to contact us on Discord or Patreon with any questions.
tl;dr
7F - Scheduled for March 10
Expect at least 60 days between major updates (full floors) going forward
Please find a modest teaser for 7F below:
- Sep 12, 2017
- 199
- 394
Well that is a breathe of fresh air. I think the only reason people (including myself), complained about the delays was that there was no explanation for the delays to the point where it felt like there was no reason for them. None of us mind the 60 day wait, what we did care about was the fact that on the surface it appeared that you stopped caring about the game.
To know that it was the opposite, and that the delays were because you cared so much and wanted it perfect, will appease many I think.
To know that it was the opposite, and that the delays were because you cared so much and wanted it perfect, will appease many I think.
Im so tired of this, also i dont understand how there are patrons still paying them whitout getting furious, well...gonna unwatch this loop delayed game and come back in 2-3 months, hopefully there will be something new then...
- Jun 17, 2018
- 799
- 2,697
Kudos to Koda for giving us our long awaited progress report, even if another delay is a bit disappointing we all joked about it kind of knowing it would happen. So I guess this means 7F isn't going to be a quicky? Since it's rare I like a villainess so much aesthetically I hope they give her lots of content!
Well, in his defense, that's what all creators do in patreon, using the excuse of QUALITY...
To be fair, he only does charge $2 compared to other mediocre games that charge you like 20 bucks. Hell, even some sfm and art patreon charge you $5. Two bucks is pretty damn cheap.
Yes, but when you charge 2500$/month, you cant say that is pretty damn cheap for him (I know that not all the money is for him but it's what patreon says) I admit that I dont pay anything, but the issue of delays keeps bothering me, that's why I just complain a little and go to do something else...
- Jun 24, 2018
- 1,728
- 5,217
For the love of god, just find the schedule that works. Whether it's 30 days or 60 days i am honestly fine with either i can live with it. But just pick a schedule and try to keep with it as best as possible.
This game has had so many delays, it's been turned into a meme.
Anyway i guess that silhouette confirms that the leaked ninja girl will be the next boss. That's good news i like her design.
This game has had so many delays, it's been turned into a meme.
Anyway i guess that silhouette confirms that the leaked ninja girl will be the next boss. That's good news i like her design.
- Jan 5, 2019
- 603
- 1,106
- Jan 5, 2019
- 603
- 1,106
I think bigger floors are a good idea. They'd probably waste less time if they planned for the very beginning, but they are in a phase of change so it's fine.
- Jan 5, 2019
- 603
- 1,106
woooohhooooo!!!!!! next delay baby!!!!
we're getting close!
lol joke aside I think it was a good call,don't mind the wait as long as there is gonna be high quality content!
we're getting close!
lol joke aside I think it was a good call,don't mind the wait as long as there is gonna be high quality content!