VN Ren'Py Abandoned The Manifest: Shadows Over Manston [v2.2] [White Phantom Games]

[a1fox3]

Shouldn't the On Hold label be enough for that purpose? Abandoned feels like an absolute state while On Hold can have a versatile range.

The primary purpose is to inform the players to really take a look for them selves if they want to risk playing and supporting something that is now over 2 years since its been updated.

It is now used on all games/VN that take more than 18 months for an update to show that the dev may be stringing along supporters just for money.
It may not be the case here but there have been many VN/games that have done this just to keep making money on a product that they will never finish.

The mods are trying to make sure that the rules are now applied to any and all VN/games so player will know something is up.

Rule #1. More than 90 days without contact from the dev on here and there main site which is normally patreon = abandoned tag.
Rule #2. More than 18 months no update to the game or VN irregardless of how active the dev is if there is no game update on here or patreon then it gets the abandoned tag
Once an update to the game/VN the abandoned tag is removed.

Says who?

I understand the thing about F95 rules, but this claim of yours is ridiculous.

I'm not claiming anything I am following the rules set by F95.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

I'm not claiming anything I am following the rules set by F95.

They were referring to this statement you made: "it should not take more than 18 months for an updated regardless of making another game or not."

Technically, that is a claim and has nothing to do with rules on F95. That statement in particular doesn't point to F95's policy as the reason for the label. It doesn't even talk about the label. It's making a claim that the dev's actions are incorrect, that an update "should not take more than 18 months". That is the claim being cited. And that is a completely subjective statement.

Whether something should or should not be given a particular label is another matter and obviously reflects the reasoning F95 uses for requiring the Abandoned label. However, specifically what was quoted by Ayhsel is still a claim and not an objective statement. I'm not saying that generally you meant anything more than applying the label, but it stands to reason this is why that particular sentence was cited.

 

[Ayhsel]

I'm not claiming anything I am following the rules set by F95.

Exactly what -CookieMonster666- said

 

[Samu Al Hydit]

You would think so, and I would hope so. However, unfortunately I've also seen some devs (absolutely not WPG ofc) use On Hold as a reason to indefinitely delay doing anything with a game.

I don't normally like to talk about games from other devs on a thread, but take Bad Bobby Saga, for instance. RAInces has used the on-hold status effectively to avoid doing practically anything on the game. That thread had been listed as On Hold for enough months to add up to 2 years or more, but it really was pretty much abandoned. It seemed obvious to anyone following that game for a long time (like I had been) that it was never going to get finished. IIRC that's marked as Abandoned now, but it took forever to get switched over.

The above example is why there is a limit to how long On Hold is allowed to remain before being switched over to Abandoned. I don't like when it happens, but as you've seen, I have emphasized that this game is not actually abandoned. WPG stating that directly here earlier today is, of course, an excellent thing as well. Like the saying goes, it only takes one bad apple. So ridiculous developers ruin things for excellent ones like WPG.

In my mind's eye, this case (and others like it) should be an exception to the rule. I see too many games/threads given the Abandoned label only for the devs are still actively working on their games (nothing scummy like Milfy City or the one you mentioned). It seems like the mods are either too dumb to see the situation properly or they just don't give a fuck at all. It's ridiculous.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

In my mind's eye, this case (and others like it) should be an exception to the rule. I see too many games/threads given the Abandoned label only for the devs are still actively working on their games (nothing scummy like Milfy City or the one you mentioned). It seems like the mods are either too dumb to see the situation properly or they just don't give a fuck at all. It's ridiculous.

I somewhat agree, but by the same token one of the big complaints that I see on this site is that rules aren't applied consistently, and I believe at times they are not. I don't think making an exception is going to improve the impression that there is unreliable application of rules. I'd rather have something like this temporarily happen and then move forward when WPG is ready than to have people use it as an example of "mods playing favorites" or w/e.

 

[Samu Al Hydit]

I somewhat agree, but by the same token one of the big complaints that I see on this site is that rules aren't applied consistently, and I believe at times they are not. I don't think making an exception is going to improve the impression that there is unreliable application of rules. I'd rather have something like this temporarily happen and then move forward when WPG is ready than to have people use it as an example of "mods playing favorites" or w/e. View attachment 2417076

If the mods are diligent enough, they put out a post explaining why the game/thread gets labelled with Abandoned, then hyperlink it to OP/first page. It's only necessary for special cases like Milfy City and the like, while other games that aren't actually abandoned or played around by scummy devs get the well-deserved On Hold.

 

[-CookieMonster666-]

If the mods are diligent enough, they put out a post explaining why the game/thread gets labelled with Abandoned, then hyperlink it to OP/first page. It's only necessary for special cases like Milfy City and the like, while other games that aren't actually abandoned or played around by scummy devs get the well-deserved On Hold.

I think we've beaten the horse to death by now. I will continue to think consistency is more important and that "exceptions to the rule" only cause more confusion or problems. You will continue to feel differently, I assume. I've seen some mods / staff members specify why something gets marked Abandoned, and I've seen some not include a reason. I don't think this is going to happen consistently, which is really the reason for all of this discussion in the first place. In any case, we aren't going to change the rules here, and those have been followed. Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd like to move on from this discussion at this point.

 

[Aryanblood17]

What happened? Did the dev confirm there won't be any updates?

 

[a1fox3]

What happened? Did the dev confirm there won't be any updates?

See rule #2.

Rule #1. More than 90 days without contact from the dev on here and there main site which is normally patreon = abandoned tag.
Rule #2. More than 18 months no update to the game or VN irregardless of how active the dev is if there is no game update on here or patreon then it gets the abandoned tag
Once an update to the game/VN the abandoned tag is removed.

 

[Samu Al Hydit]

What happened? Did the dev confirm there won't be any updates?

See what I'm talking about? You'll get folks asking "what happened" and shit all the time with the Abandoned label.

See rule #2.

Rule #1. More than 90 days without contact from the dev on here and there main site which is normally patreon = abandoned tag.
Rule #2. More than 18 months no update to the game or VN irregardless of how active the dev is if there is no game update on here or patreon then it gets the abandoned tag
Once an update to the game/VN the abandoned tag is removed.

Rule #2 truly goes against every critical and logical thinking people have about the word "abandoned".

We reap what we sow, I guess. Keep on explaining what the label truly means for the umpteenth time. Have fun.

 

[JJJ84]

Finally got all caught up to the game (yay!).

I quite like Defending Lydia Collier a lot but I'm surprised to say, in terms of the story I actually do prefer this game slightly compared to LC.

But regardless, I'm looking forward to how LC concludes (just few more updates remaining?), and White Phantom getting back to this game after he finishes LC.

 

[Uzhirian]

(It's not abandoned, its on-hold until DLC is done...snip....

Cmon dude, finish the actual game before you start doing DLC for it! No-one likes day 1 DLC!

Sorry, I was weak and couldn't resist. Seriously though, I love SoM and DLC, so getting both at end of the day is good by me.

 

[baklol]

Cmon dude, finish the actual game before you start doing DLC for it! No-one likes day 1 DLC!

Sorry, I was weak and couldn't resist. Seriously though, I love SoM and DLC, so getting both at end of the day is good by me.

well i personally like this one so waiting for this one to be continue again lets see how many more days dlc will get to finish line

 

[Machete]

well i personally like this one so waiting for this one to be continue again lets see how many more days dlc will get to finish line

I don't know, at this point the abandoned tag is pretty earned. When DLC will be completed this game will be so old that it will need to be basically remade from the start.

 

[baklol]

I don't know, at this point the abandoned tag is pretty earned. When DLC will be completed this game will be so old that it will need to be basically remade from the start.

story will be rendered too but this story was good

 

[Prokopije]

This game was great before rework AKA "simplification", where important choices were removed, some unpleasant things forced etc. After that it became crappy... something to play if there is literally nothing else to play... abandoned or not abandoned, don't really care...

 

[DetroitAfterDark]

This game was great before rework AKA "simplification", where important choices were removed, some unpleasant things forced etc. After that it became crappy... something to play if there is literally nothing else to play... abandoned or not abandoned, don't really care...

Even so, hope you're ready for the mosh pit shaka brah

 

[Virgin Girl]

i smell so much lezbian

 

[Gwb2006]

Firstly, I would point out that it's a label, not a tag. A lot of people (including a1fox3) use the wrong term. Normally I don't think it matters that much, but in discussions like this specifically, it gets confusing when you misname things.

Now, to your question: I agree with you that this happens. However, F95 has rules that I think should be followed. I don't always agree with the rules (like in this case), but if the rules get consistently followed (spoiler: they don't), people would have a much better understanding of why things happen.

It's the same for tags in a game (not only for labels). If something is tagged as netorare but that hasn't been added to a game yet, it's misleading b/c someone expects the content to be there. Yet, there are some who say that should be applied because it will be there. So who is right? A rule has to be created and adhered to so people understand what's being said. So as a1fox3 said, the point of the Abandoned label is to flag that at present no progress on the game should be expected currently.

This game is a special case ofc, because WPG has said multiple times (and just reiterated above) that this is not actually abandoned. But when 90+% of games that get the label are, in fact, abandoned, it's better to err on the side of caution and occasionally mislabel stuff. It's an imperfect system, and I definitely don't always agree with specific standards that have been laid down for this type of stuff. But I do think that without any specifics it makes it a lot harder for people on the site to make any determination about games to support, etc.

So I disagree with the implication as a consequence of following the site guidelines, but I do agree with the guidelines themselves and with following them when they apply, even if it results in something unfortunate like what's happened here.

This is a great perspective and I agree. Rules can be annoying at times, but they are there for a reason and usually helpful. There needs to be a system in place for situations in which games don't get updated whether or not the dev has a good reason. Regardless of all that, when this game does get updated it will show up on the Latest Updates page and things will continue normally.

 

[Ass Fan]

Guys I miss this game and Tiffany