Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

[Ignazzio]

You're right but I somehow agree that some extreme fetishes shouldn't flash their content so much as it's just asking for troubles. People who aren't looking for it will eventually react like Patreon did unfortunately

 

[Ark Thompson]

Sorry to say, but the devs have exactly what they deserve. Their front page practically screamed "incest", "rape", "loli", etc. When you are doing adult games you don't need this type of description on your Patreon site, because 99.9 percent of your patrons know about your game from places like f95, porn sites, etc.

And when you're doing this type of game, when you start earning big money on this game, it is in your own interest to stay "underground". It is your own interest to keep the Patreon site "crystal-clear". At least publicly accessible part of your site.

But if the devs wanted people to find their sites using Google, that's exactly what happened. People found their sites. People from PayPal, Visa, Mastercard

This is... Absolutely not the case... Everything you say is false for me: My pages never screamed anything about the content (I want as a proof that by making a little Ctrl+F I didn't find the word incest in any of my 2017 posts). The only thing I screamed was about what WASN'T in my games (as it's all consensual, I've always claimed that rape and stuff were not present)

Many of my patrons claimed they had no clue about the content of my game before checking the front page of my Patreon.
A few words on ulmf aren't enough and even though everything's explained on my site people don't read it (I know it, 95% of the people go only to the front page and the download section, almost no one reads the story/character pages) so I really needed my Patreon page to be precise cause it was the only one people actually read. And no, not everyone is aware of F95 and pirate sites.

It's nonsense to say people need to stay underground after they start earning big money. You can't earn big money by staying underground (I know it, it's my case) and once you're famous, you can't really go back to be "underground" since you're famous. Both are incompatible.

And transfering the content from Patreon to another site won't change anything. Even if your Patreon page is crystal clear, people can still find what you do thanks to your other site (cause you need to inform people at some point, or else no one gives a damn about you) and report your Patreon even if it's clear cause the guy saw what you did and if he REALLY wants to piss you off, he has the means to.

So please, don't make general assumption thinking you know everything about every developer, it might be true for some of them, but definitely not for everyone.

 

[Ignazzio]

You're partially a victim of other devs in my opinion as your game is really well hidden with its content. But look at this forum - most of the titles here are combination of family members just to make it similiar to BB and DMD (which are at fault as well). You don't need to look at them to know they're incest. Taboo fetishes just don't look good for a corporation so sooner or later someone would react when almost every single game on Patreon isn't even hiding its content. I'm not saying it's good but I suspect that devs overdid this a bit. If they were more creative just with their titles it would be much easier for Patreon to ignore it

 

[lynx33]

I hate this whole thing makes it that either you're with Patreon or you have to be accepting of games depicting sexual violence towards minors and animals.

 

[greyknight]

I hate this whole thing makes it that either you're with Patreon or you have to be accepting of games depicting sexual violence towards minors and animals.

Patreon specifically exempts Game of Thrones which has everything they supposedly hate (rape, sexual violence to minors, breast feeding dragons, slavery, incest, etc.) Patreon is the inconsistent hypocrite in this scenario, period. What this boils down to is if the Trust and Safety drone you get is a raging SJW or not. Arbitrary and capricious is the name of the game.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Patreon specifically exempts Game of Thrones which has everything they supposedly hate (rape, sexual violence to minors, breast feeding dragons, slavery, incest, etc.) Patreon is the inconsistent hypocrite in this scenario, period. What this boils down to is if the Trust and Safety drone you get is a raging SJW or not. Arbitrary and capricious is the name of the game.

Their intend behind the exemption is to make a difference between "art" and "pornography". A difference needed since they've so many artists on their site. So technically, and in their own mind, they are neither inconsistent nor hypocrite.
But you are right, in the end it will only depend of who will review the game. What is now seen as art, like "Lolita" which they take as other example, was mostly censored in the past. Same for things like "

You must be registered to see the links

" from Gustave Courbet, which was seen as pornographic before it become a world wide knew piece of art. And what to say about paintings depicting Pan, which are seen as art, but are also part bestiality...

And, here, they become hypocrites, because "pornography" and "art" share the same ambiguity and have both a blurred definition. A definition which not only evolve with the time, but also change depending of the persons. But their main hypocrisy is that, when asked to remove any blur in their guidelines, by defining what "pornography" is, they answered with : Is pornography whatever is not art.
This mean that they just don't answered at all. Alright, we now know what is pornography, so now can they please define what is "art" ? And if possible not as whatever is not pornography.

 

[xןʞ]

The funny thing is they keep mentioning game of thrones, but if you actually read the books it is pretty god damned obvious ol RR is really fetishsizing the incest and other wacky sexual stuff in there.

There is a reason there are a ton of satire bits about the game of thrones books being "well lets see George's new big donkey dick and incest spank bank material" and such.

 

[Ark Thompson]

Their intend behind the exemption is to make a difference between "art" and "pornography". A difference needed since they've so many artists on their site. So technically, and in their own mind, they are neither inconsistent nor hypocrite.
But you are right, in the end it will only depend of who will review the game. What is now seen as art, like "Lolita" which they take as other example, was mostly censored in the past. Same for things like "

You must be registered to see the links

" from Gustave Courbet, which was seen as pornographic before it become a world wide knew piece of art. And what to say about paintings depicting Pan, which are seen as art, but are also part bestiality...

And, here, they become hypocrites, because "pornography" and "art" share the same ambiguity and have both a blurred definition. A definition which not only evolve with the time, but also change depending of the persons. But their main hypocrisy is that, when asked to remove any blur in their guidelines, by defining what "pornography" is, they answered with : Is pornography whatever is not art.
This mean that they just don't answered at all. Alright, we now know what is pornography, so now can they please define what is "art" ? And if possible not as whatever is not pornography.

I totally agree with you but what bothering me is that for these last years, we're actually regressing what we made so many years to build. If people ended up seeing Lolita or l'Origine du monde as pieces of art (what they are) is because people evolved. But now, they're back to square one. I mean, that exemple of l'origine du monde couldn't be truer. A year or two ago, a University teacher gave a test to his students on this painting. To avoid making useless printings, he simply uploaded the pic on his facebook account telling his students to check it. It provoked such a ruckus here that Facebook litterally banned his account and some parents asked for him to be fired!! The guy is a FUCKING UNIVERSITY teacher and he can't even teach a famous painting just because it features a goddamn pussy! He had to make public excuses etc... When I saw that I knew we were not heading in the right direction.

You'll see that little by little in the upcoming dozens of years, old book that were once censored will be censored again and we'll go back to being stupid (well, not us, them ). I am sooooooo not in a hurry to see that happening :noexpression:

Cause okay, Gonzo is probably not art, but gosh, look at those Japanese hentai drawer, some draw stuff that are even more professional-level than professional stuff! It's gorgeous before being even kinky! And a game is a piece of art. Video games are the 10th art. And even if some people don't agree with that, it seems that legally, video games are an art in the US.
So if a video game has pornographic elements, it's still a game, hence it's still art, hence their definition crumbles 8D

 

[Caligula]

***snip*** What this boils down to is if the Trust and Safety drone you get is a raging SJW or not an ultra-conservative or a sociopath or simply an asshole or... ***snip***

I apologize but somehow I felt compelled to change that a bit.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I totally agree with you but what bothering me is that for these last years, we're actually regressing what we made so many years to build.

I'm more balanced. But it's because I live in a country (France) more opened to this kind of art and, more globally, on eroticism and pornography. It doesn't mean that we don't have moral problems, but before censoring "Lolita", we also were the ones who published it for the first time. We also we're the first to make erotic and pornographic photographies (and probably also movies somewhere in a cave). Somehow, our view on the "pornography versus art" debate is that it's art until too many people say otherwise. And even in this case, it must be people who matter, not just some angry mothers.
This said, I'm also part of the world, especially because of internet. And I can't deny that there's regression, or perhaps more a widening gap. In one hand, never before there was so many people opened to eroticism and pornography (soft or not). It can seem futile, but each time a girl send a nude to her crush (or the opposite), they share soft porn. This was unimaginable twenty years ago. Not just because we didn't have the technology for it, but also because people were more reserved. And all this is natural. Obviously, all of them aren't ready to share their nudes with everyone, but they don't see what they do as a perversion.
But on the same time, there's more and more people to join the crusade for a good moral. And these people are the one who talk the louder, so who are listened. Take the case PayPal... They opened a subsidiary for the adult content. They understood that there's money here, but still fear more the people calling to boycott (because of some relation with pornography or whatever) than they are attracted by the tons of money they can make with adult content.

I think (or perhaps just hope) that we are the most numerous, but unless there a case like Patreon, we don't feel the need to say, "pornography is not bad", like the moralists feel the need to express their hate.
And when we do it, it's just the act of a community. The girls (and boys) I talked about above surely have nothing against porn games, even if they don't play them. But why should they care about a bunch of people kicked out of Patreon ? In the same time, where was the adult game community when tumblr silently started to filter adult content, removing it from there main page and research tools, like Patreon did with the adult content ?
It's not that we are selfish, just that we already have the problems of our community, so we have no time to deal with the problems of another one. In the end, we seem to be a minority and loose as always.

 

[lynx33]

Patreon specifically exempts Game of Thrones which has everything they supposedly hate (rape, sexual violence to minors, breast feeding dragons, slavery, incest, etc.) Patreon is the inconsistent hypocrite in this scenario, period. What this boils down to is if the Trust and Safety drone you get is a raging SJW or not. Arbitrary and capricious is the name of the game.

I agree with lots of what you write. Though, like @Caligula writes it might just as well be a christian conservative. After all, this is after all a company based in the same country as Ted Cruz who refuses to eat in the same room as women he's not married to or in family with. Cause he's afraid he can't control himself. America, on both sides of the aisle has some weird sexual hangups that seem weird to us across the pond.

In more of a general reply, it's clear that the line between art and porn is fairly blurry. Even a rule of thumb like "are people meant to fap to this" is fairly blurry. To me, US society seems to regress on these freedoms, while say in Scandinavia we seem to be progressing. We're a far way off from when Life of Brian was banned for blasphemy.

My main point though, was that even though I support porn, porn games and fiction that portrays sex between consenting adults, even those related, I don't support anything people are meant to fap to that includes people that are underage or animals. And I feel like some of the discussions on this topic on this forum have been "either you're a SJW and support patreon" or you gotta support that content and be okay with it being posted on a white supremacist web site.

*Disclaimer: When it comes to fictional beasts, I will never play it myself, but have nothing morally against it*

 

[greyknight]

You guys really think there is a secret cabal of fundamentalist Christians pulling the strings at Patreon? Patreon being based in SAN FRANCISCO... LOL! Look I get people being unfamiliar with the U.S. but that's tantamount to saying there is a colony of polar bears selling ice in the Sahara desert. Whew.

 

[lynx33]

Sorry, I meant Mike Pence, not Ted Cruz. Though Ted Cruz is creepy as fuck as well. And no, I don't think it's a secret cabal of anyone. I think it's a country where both sides is so steeped in conservative christian values that the Democrats would pass for a right wing party in most European countries. And shit, you're the naïve one if you think being SF based means Patreon only has SF investors and SF values in today's day and age. They've likely got investors from all around and you don't need to go far away from SF to find conservatives. That being said, I'm sure there are people from "many sides... many sides" behind this. The point is that America's sexual repression isn't just a liberal thing. It's a fullscale thing. And blaming SJW's (what a lazy blanket term btw) for everything makes little sense.

 

[Caligula]

You guys really think there is a secret cabal of fundamentalist Christians pulling the strings at Patreon? Patreon being based in SAN FRANCISCO... LOL! Look I get people being unfamiliar with the U.S. but that's tantamount to saying there is a colony of polar bears selling ice in the Sahara desert. Whew.

Patreon is not a large company (you can correct me if I'm wrong). So a handful of people in the right positions are enough to change things drastically. In addition I didn't mention any religion and gave a couple of possibilities where it doesn't matter what political stance you have, if you follow a religion or happen to be an atheist.
I've never been to SF but I'm pretty sure that there are people living and working from every background, political stance and so forth like everywhere else. Maybe they are not the majority, but they are there for sure.

 

[Caligula]

***snip*** The point is that America's sexual repression isn't just a liberal thing. It's a fullscale thing. ***snip***

It doesn't only happen in America by the way. Seems to be global problem to me but unfortunately it's much worse in the USA.

...and now back to topic.

 

[greyknight]

Sure no worries guys. Here are some fun facts about San Francisco. It's the most leftist city in the U.S. It was the heart of the hippy movement in the 60's (

You must be registered to see the links

), the starting point of the gay rights movement in America, and is one of the least politically diverse cities in the U.S. with Republican support under 9% of the population. This is not a Mike Pence (I knew who lynx33 really meant) / "ultra-conservatives" problem. Patreon has been overtly political for months now. Just do some googling on Jack Conte statements and interviews. Silicon Valley has had a "anti-free speech" problem festering for a while now. It is highly likely that the Patreon's Trust and Safety council are composed of people who would delete the U.S. President's Twitter account out of spite instead of debating the fine points the 1st amendment with a "dirty pornographer."

 

[Pantisocrat]

The US Constitution has no relevance here and incest, rape and bestiality are widely deplored in most walks of life, regardless of political leanings.

 

[smnb]

My main point though, was that even though I support porn, porn games and fiction that portrays sex between consenting adults, even those related, I don't support anything people are meant to fap to that includes people that are underage or animals. And I feel like some of the discussions on this topic on this forum have been "either you're a SJW and support patreon" or you gotta support that content and be okay with it being posted on a white supremacist web site.

You don't need to support stuff you don't like, but why not simply tolerate it? When it's safe to say that no living being was harmed while making it (and that's true for drawings, renders, ...), then where's the problem? Be disgusted by it if you want, but that's not good enough reason to join or start witch hunts.

And I actually like the last part. When you hear "white supremacist web site", open mindedness, sense of humour and similar things are not associations that pop up in anyone's head. Who knows, maybe hosting an underage incest bestiality games there might do something good for those guys, and I don't mean their cut of money.

 

[greyknight]

And I actually like the last part. When you hear "white supremacist web site", open mindedness, sense of humour and similar things are not associations that pop up in anyone's head. Who knows, maybe hosting an underage incest bestiality games there might do something good for those guys, and I don't mean their cut of money.

That's the ironic thing. The alt right is traditionalist. They think porn is degenerate. The fact that Hatreon is open to porn means that the founder is not alt right, just a free speech absolutist just like it says on the website. I find this labeling of Hatreon as the alt right Patreon frustrating. Patreon is the alt right Patreon folks, the alt right still has many content creators there.

 

[lynx33]

You don't need to support stuff you don't like, but why not simply tolerate it? When it's safe to say that no living being was harmed while making it (and that's true for drawings, renders, ...), then where's the problem? Be disgusted by it if you want, but that's not good enough reason to join or start witch hunts.

And I actually like the last part. When you hear "white supremacist web site", open mindedness, sense of humour and similar things are not associations that pop up in anyone's head. Who knows, maybe hosting an underage incest bestiality games there might do something good for those guys, and I don't mean their cut of money.

I suppose you're right. I'm very uneasy with sexualization of minors though. But I suppose it's better that the people into that whack it to porn games than actually live out their fantasies.

Haha, make the white supremacists become incest porn fans! Maybe they will be too busy jerking off to hold rallies.