VN Ren'Py Kingdom of Deception [v0.14.2.1] [Hreinn Games]

[random.person]

She let Tekrok's men fuck her at the tents and they supported her at the trial.

She has a lot to gain by being submissive and letting the orc bar gropers fuck her. She could earn coin and their favor. She wouldn't have a murder charge against her either from the Shaman. Killing the Orcs for 200 lunils and an axe isn't worth it in the grand scheme of things.



She let them grope her, she had the decision. She can tell them to stop or continue. She's still a member of the Orc clan and went through the trial. It's not like she's a slave with no choice.

The bar groping quest of this game has only a dominant path. There is no submission route. Her supposed submissiveness in the bar groping quest was more like deception not submission. She deceives them, but the game gives you submission points? It doesn't make sense. It's fake submission in order to deceive. A person who thinks like that is dominant.

But we must understand that what she did with Tekrok's men was before she became a member of the tribe.
At that moment in time she was an outcast and getting the favor of a captain was worth it.
After the trial not so much, she has achieved a warrior's status, she has a higher station than when she worked in the tents, that's why she can't afford to fall. She could do it before because she was at the very bottom and couldn't go lower.

That route is submissive in the measure in which she doesn't stop them from manhandling them. And it's not dominant because Sabia relies to subterfuge, cunning and help to solve the situation, instead of imposing herself on those orcs.
Besides there are various degrees of submissiveness and at this point in time simply the authors have deemed Sabia not submissive enough to undergo such an ending. And I agree with them, even though I would have loved the whorish outcome. You are stressing the name of the parameter too much and forgetting that you don't have any numerical reference to say if it's high or not. If we knew submission 10 was "ahegao cock-addicted gyaru slut from hell" and that was the order of magnitude Sabia was at, you'd be right. But we don't have such a reference.
Or, better said, we have some kind of reference, and that's the requirement for Tekrok x Sabia submission scene in the raid phase.

"Sub: Submit obediently to Tekrok" if sub >= 5:
            $ tekrokraidsexdone = True
            $ dom -= 1
            $ sub += 3
            show sabiaemo happy3 at left
            s "I need your help, Tekrok. You're withholding help that I need to work for you."
            show tekrok normal at right
            t "Bah. You have earned nothing."
            show sabiaemo closed3 at left
            s "Earning support is something between equals. I thought you considered me just a tool..."
            "Tekrok paused, eyeing her suspiciously. He shifted forward, an ominous mass of muscle looming over her."
            show tekrok angry2 at right
            t "You have given Tekrok no reason to believe you know your proper place."
            show sabiaemo normal at left
            s "I won't submit so easily... but I know you're my only chance. I'll play the role I need to under you."
            show tekrok happy1 at right
            show sabiaemo happy3 at left
            t "Oh? Will you really play every part of that role?"
            s "Yes... you've already used me for your men, why not use me for yourself? I would rather be yours than a bunch of lowly warriors'..."
            show tekrok angry2 at right
            t "Hah. Humans will have no right to such pride when Tekrok's world has come."
            show tekrok happy1 at right
            t "But for now, you are a good tool. If you mean what you say, then prove it!"
            call TekrokSabiaSub

As we can see the requirement is submission at least 5 and it raises it by 3, so this whole thing makes her at least a submission 8. And what does she agree to at 5 that brings her to 8? She reluctantly agree to affirm her role as Tekrok's subordinate by having sex with him. And here's the key, at this submission score she still is reluctant.
Submission around 5 is not meant to represent turboslut. She is prone to submit to others, but only if it furthers her goal.
She's not a mindless doll ready to be played with if asked or taken.

 

[hakarlman]

But we must understand that what she did with Tekrok's men was before she became a member of the tribe.

So you're saying becoming a member of the tribe means less sex in a porn game? What?

If you let Sabia have sex with Tekrok's men, it should unlock the ability to have sex with the Bar gropers. It only makes sense. Why? Sabia can LET them grope her or she can deny it. She has full agency here because she's a member of the tribe.

You're basically saying that once you join the tribe, that having sex with Orcs means you can't gain power? That doesn't make sense.

As we can see the requirement is submission at least 5 and it raises it by 3, so this whole thing makes her at least a submission 8. And what does she agree to at 5 that brings her to 8? She reluctantly agree to affirm her role as Tekrok's subordinate by having sex with him. And here's the key, at this submission score she still is reluctant.
Submission around 5 is not meant to represent turboslut. She is prone to submit to others, but only if it furthers her goal.
he's not a mindless doll ready to be played with if asked or taken.

I didn't play that far. Once she stopped working at the tents and killed the bar gropers instead of fuck them I lost interest in the game. The game started out so good, but quickly went down hill.

 

[Q:Rising]

I don't get the "hype" around SierraLee's writing skills. I played Noxian Nights, years ago and I thought that was great. It has it's shortcommings but the flaws were more in the gameplay than the story. Then I played The Last Sovereign and I wasn't a fan of it at all. Like I said it was years ago but I thought the story was bland it wasn't that sexy of a game.

You think people praise Sierra's writing because it's easy to jerk off to?? Like, you hear all these people talking about the philosophy, ethics and combat tactics in The Last Sovereign and and legit think "Oh boy I bet this will really make my peepee hard"??. The Last Sovereign isn't a smut game friendo.

 

[random.person]

So you're saying becoming a member of the tribe means less sex in a porn game? What?

If you let Sabia have sex with Tekrok's men, it should unlock the ability to have sex with the Bar gropers. It only makes sense. Why? Sabia can LET them grope her or she can deny it. She has full agency here because she's a member of the tribe.

You're basically saying that once you join the tribe, that having sex with Orcs means you can't gain power? That doesn't make sense.



I didn't play that far. Once she stopped working at the tents and killed the bar gropers instead of fuck them I lost interest in the game. The game started out so good, but quickly went down hill.

You probably were just looking for another kind of game then. This one has some more complex premises and wants to address sexual themes in a more realistic fashion. It's not a "let's degrade the main character at every turn of the road" kind of game.
That's why progressing doesn't necessarily mean debasing Sabia further and further. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. It's circumstantial.

 

[Hanten]

Spoiler: New post

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It's a shame that after a whole month of nothing they decided to drop a lore post. Seems like they're going for another 3 month release gap since they avoided posting any real release time frame for 0.6

 

[hakarlman]

You probably were just looking for another kind of game then.

Nope. The only reason I'm making posts here is because this is one of the best games I've played, but it goes from very good to very bad in such a steep curve I felt I had to make a post. I normally would never bother making suggestions to this degree for any game.

The story is good, but it doesn't make sense for Sabia to go full blown dominant murdering bar orc gropers if her domination score is 0 and submission score is 6-7. Especially if he just let TEkrok's men bang her and she was willing to wear the orc slave armor. That bar groper scenario builds sabia up to a potentially awesome sex scene, then denies you seeing it. Getting groped by the bar orcs makes her so horny the way it's explained. But all you get is 200 lunils, a stupid axe and a boring anti climatic murder charge accusation quest.

That's why progressing doesn't necessarily mean debasing Sabia further and further. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it doesn't. It's circumstantial.

So you're saying the game's sex scenes will get worse as the game progresses? The higher she goes up in rank, the less sexually corrupt she gets? Lame.

 

[The Cheesiest Alfredo]

I'm gonna preface this by saying that I do agree that murdering the bar orcs is definitely sudden, especially if you're full submissive, and that they could've thought of some sort of submission ending, I don't believe that fucking these orcs would make any sense, especially considering Sabia's goals.

The story is good, but it doesn't make sense for Sabia to go full blown dominant murdering bar orc gropers if her domination score is 0 and submission score is 6-7. Especially if he just let TEkrok's men bang her and she was willing to wear the orc slave armor. That bar groper scenario builds sabia up to a potentially awesome sex scene, then denies you seeing it. Getting groped by the bar orcs makes her so horny the way it's explained. But all you get is 200 lunils, a stupid axe and a boring anti climatic murder charge accusation quest.

I don't think that bringing up the example of Tekrok's men is valid. Fucking Tekrok's men and wearing the slave armour gives you actual favour with Tekrok himself. It makes Tekrok like you. This would greatly increase you're potential influence and standing if you have one of the 3 captains as an ally. Fucking these random bar groping orcs wouldn't get you any influence with anyone important at all. Also fucking these orcs wouldn't make them respect you, it would rather cement their opinion of you as a human whore who's only worth fucking, which is in no way a positive for Sabia. You also said that you can fuck them for money, however this is no different than working in the tents. Women who worked in the tents were either slaves or had no influence on the camp at all, which at this point in the story Sabia is neither but instead a partly respected warrior of the tribe. Lessening her reputation just for money wouldn't make any sense as she has better sources for money.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I also feel like you've unfairly judged the game because you've basically concluded that the whole game is dogshit over one small scene that can also be completely skipped and ignored. This is an event that happens pretty early in the game so you haven't even seen half of the available content. If you continue the game you might feel differently about the rest of it.

Sorry about the small wall of text.

 

[The Cheesiest Alfredo]

Sounds like you want the game to just be a normal RPG. I expect the game to be a PORN game first and then a well written story second. I appreciate the well written story, I really do. Before the trial, the game was purely that. A completely debauched porn game with a great story. Then after the trial it turned into what you're describing, an RPG game where story took priority over sexual content.

What's more fun for a porn game? A boring murder accusation quest or watching Sabia get gangbanged by corrupt Orc Bar Gropers?

Sabia having sex with the Bar Orc gropers would've been the best thing I've ever seen in a virtual novel and I would've subbed to the patron. The game sent the wrong signal by being completely debaucherous in the beginning, but then turning tame after the trial. We should be allowed to let Sabia have sex with them. It just doesn't make sense for her not to have sex with them. It's a travesty lol.

Oh well, not a big deal. Let's see what they do. Maybe they'll make a true submission path for that. If they did that, I would sub to the patron for at least 3-4 months easy.

That's fair enough, I see where you're coming from. Different tastes I guess. It's a shame you're not getting what you want from the game.

 

[hakarlman]

That's fair enough, I see where you're coming from. Different tastes I guess. It's a shame you're not getting what you want from the game.

The game was perfect before the trial. A masterpiece! But after the Trial I wish we could've kept Sabia on the submissive path instead of the game forcing her to be dominant.

If you side with Tekrok, Sabia should be able to recruit the bar gropers into Tekrok's clan making him stronger. Then promise that they can fuck her on a regular basis and grope her at the bar as much as they want.

 

[Heliophorus]

an RPG game where story took priority over sexual content.

What's more fun for a porn game? A boring murder accusation quest or watching Sabia get gangbanged by corrupt Orc Bar Gropers?

It does sound good to me, at least it's not typical female mc game. There is plenty of porn games with serviceable plot that drives story and gives you sex scenes along the way, meanwhile KoD offers at least gives somewhat interesting story. I think regardless of what path (sub or dom) you choose Sabia will always be focused on her goals first. Bad endings are exception to this of course and perhaps game endings will have something similar too, Noxian Nights minotaur ending is good example of what might happen if she loses her focus.

 

[baneini]

"Sierra lee wants the mc to be this way", Great argument.

The bar scene lacks a sub option because they wanted to include a minigame about avoiding punishment. It's the least believable action the mc makes because of that. Gameplay mandates story, rather than other way around.
If the devs were fine with skipping the minigame then it'd be super easy to write a better ending for it.

 

[mesoru]

I thought the bar groping scene ending was weird and abrupt as well. Dunno if Sierra had other plans for it, but it wouldn't be the first time she changes her mind about something in the game (see the removed rape scene in the intro for example).

 

[hakarlman]

I thought the bar groping scene ending was weird and abrupt as well. Dunno if Sierra had other plans for it, but it wouldn't be the first time she changes her mind about something in the game (see the removed rape scene in the intro for example).

That made sense, you don't want to rush straight into sex right at the beginning.

However, if you surrender to them in the start and show weakness, they should at least grope Sabia a bit and humiliate her.

"Sierra lee wants the mc to be this way", Great argument.

The bar scene lacks a sub option because they wanted to include a minigame about avoiding punishment. It's the least believable action the mc makes because of that. Gameplay mandates story, rather than other way around.
If the devs were fine with skipping the minigame then it'd be super easy to write a better ending for it.

OMG that makes no sense to me. The only thing that makes sense is ORC GANGBANG, lol.

I can't believe Sabia can't work in the tents anymore. That at least made grinding fun.

Is there anyway to earn money with sex after the trial?

 

[Heliophorus]

I can agree that bar scene might not be well though out, still I see that writing her in a specific way is important. I want sub Sabia to be manipulator, not a cocksleeve, like her sister expected her to turn out.

 

[mesoru]

I can agree that bar scene might not be well though out

Besides how domination/submission have no influence into that scene outcome. What also weirded me out was how ruthless she was. I mean, straight up murdering someone just cause of some groping? talk about overreaction.
Well, the scene also opens up the confrontation with the orc shaman and the best bad ending by far (imo). So there's that silver lining.

 

[TheMagister]

I expect the game to be a PORN game first and then a well written story second.

That's your problem. That's not what Sierra set out to do in making this game.

 

[random.person]

Nope. The only reason I'm making posts here is because this is one of the best games I've played, but it goes from very good to very bad in such a steep curve I felt I had to make a post. I normally would never bother making suggestions to this degree for any game.

The story is good, but it doesn't make sense for Sabia to go full blown dominant murdering bar orc gropers if her domination score is 0 and submission score is 6-7. Especially if he just let TEkrok's men bang her and she was willing to wear the orc slave armor. That bar groper scenario builds sabia up to a potentially awesome sex scene, then denies you seeing it. Getting groped by the bar orcs makes her so horny the way it's explained. But all you get is 200 lunils, a stupid axe and a boring anti climatic murder charge accusation quest.



So you're saying the game's sex scenes will get worse as the game progresses? The higher she goes up in rank, the less sexually corrupt she gets? Lame.

No, not worse, but different. Let's say Sabia becomes some sort of warlord: would you really expect her to still work in a bar? I daresay nope. Context influences the possible sex scenes. If she stoops too low it simply is a bad ending gameplay-wise, because you can't get a story about power and political play going if the main character starts fucking hobos.
I don't know how they intend to design the sub route, but I can make the educated guess that it's about being manipulative instead of assertive. She will still probably end up fucking a lot of randos, but always for some purpose. An example is during the Red God Arena when you can bribe with sex the orc registering results to avoid getting your loss written down.

Sounds like you want the game to just be a normal RPG. I expect the game to be a PORN game first and then a well written story second. I appreciate the well written story, I really do. Before the trial, the game was purely that. A completely debauched porn game with a great story. Then after the trial it turned into what you're describing, an RPG game where story took priority over sexual content.

What's more fun for a porn game? A boring murder accusation quest or watching Sabia get gangbanged by corrupt Orc Bar Gropers?

Sabia having sex with the Bar Orc gropers would've been the best thing I've ever seen in a virtual novel and I would've subbed to the patron. The game sent the wrong signal by being completely debaucherous in the beginning, but then turning tame after the trial. We should be allowed to let Sabia have sex with them. It just doesn't make sense for her not to have sex with them. It's a travesty lol.

Oh well, not a big deal. Let's see what they do. Maybe they'll make a true submission path for that. If they did that, I would sub to the patron for at least 3-4 months easy.

That's why I told you that you probably were looking for a different kind of game. KoD is not only about the sex, is about sex in a fantasy RPG. And the depth of the world-building is what tells the player that they're serious about the story.

 

[Interracial UglyB NTR Fan]

Rejoice tentacle fans, hopefully there's enough content for rest of us but it looks like their patreon took a hit if I'm not mistaken

 

[Interracial UglyB NTR Fan]

No, not worse, but different. Let's say Sabia becomes some sort of warlord: would you really expect her to still work in a bar? I daresay nope. Context influences the possible sex scenes. If she stoops too low it simply is a bad ending gameplay-wise, because you can't get a story about power and political play going if the main character starts fucking hobos.
I don't know how they intend to design the sub route, but I can make the educated guess that it's about being manipulative instead of assertive. She will still probably end up fucking a lot of randos, but always for some purpose. An example is during the Red God Arena when you can bribe with sex the orc registering results to avoid getting your loss written down.


That's why I told you that you probably were looking for a different kind of game. KoD is not only about the sex, is about sex in a fantasy RPG. And the depth of the world-building is what tells the player that they're serious about the story.

Riven pretty much fucked anyone as the town bike while being acknowledged as the hero of the village in their previous game, the horny king fucking all the peasants is a long used trope, equality, don't be sexist and let her be a slut if she wants to


I agree the bar scene was very disappointing. If they want immersion and choices to matter the bar scene should of been if sub enough fuck them and maybe murder them aswell for profit, then sleep with the investigator and witnesses, dom option murder them, frame or bride, offer cat girls etc.

 

[Interracial UglyB NTR Fan]

That's your problem. That's not what Sierra set out to do in making this game.

Did you not play Noxian Nights or the first half of KoD?

The game has definitely taken a turn, it should almost be tagged with reverse-corruption, If the updates stay on this course. Sabia was always goal driven, like Riven, then you corrupt her along the path to her goals using them as an excuse for her actions while the they rationalizes their growing passion for them as an inevitable consequence until they give in to the pleasure and admit they've become whores, this is the corruption genre in essence, as Sabia gets more standing she is becoming less of a whore, at least in public (which is the best part), makes perfect sense in reality, not so much in a porn game, a corruption one at that. People are simply surprised as this goes against porn games and Sierras previous work in general.

BUT it's very possible she'll go back and add alternative sub paths later, choosing to spend early dev time to progress the story first, here's to hoping.