- Oct 2, 2017
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I'm not in the US but could you share some costs details? This may be out of our budget range atm.
to get my company set up, i had to pay only a couple of small fees. I think it was around $200 USD, plus the fees I paid to my lawyer, which was the most expensive part.
- Jul 10, 2018
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You don't have to be a company to hold copyright, that's trademark law (since obviously you must be plying a trade to have a mark for it). Under most laws, any creator automatically owns copyright for any applicable creation made xecept under paid commission or on the time paid for by an employer.
The only thing needed for copyright is proof that you created it first, and not in time someone else paid for. (Never work on your own projects while on company time for an employer, guys, as the employer automatically owns your creative work for that).
The only thing needed for copyright is proof that you created it first, and not in time someone else paid for. (Never work on your own projects while on company time for an employer, guys, as the employer automatically owns your creative work for that).
- Mar 23, 2018
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Just to be clear, I was not talking about having a company to hold a copyright. I'm suggesting you devs have companies so you can have proper revenue accounting, use your username or pen name as a legal entity, enhance anonymity, and cover your ass in the event of a lawsuit.
If I get sued, my company may be dissolved, but I get to keep my house. Without a company, I, as a person, am at risk instead
I would like to add that "Prove the ownership" request is pure bullshit.
If anything, he should prove it but since those requests are made by the devs directly, unless they suffer a memory loss, they are 100% sure they didn't grant him anything, therefore this can be skipped.
But yeah, the whole "Prove ownership" is just a stupid response from a clueless basement dweller.
Just scare him off with a DMCA claim and perhaps be the first one to ask the "Prove it", common sense would say he wouldn't ask your same question back at you.
If anything, he should prove it but since those requests are made by the devs directly, unless they suffer a memory loss, they are 100% sure they didn't grant him anything, therefore this can be skipped.
But yeah, the whole "Prove ownership" is just a stupid response from a clueless basement dweller.
Just scare him off with a DMCA claim and perhaps be the first one to ask the "Prove it", common sense would say he wouldn't ask your same question back at you.
- Sep 15, 2018
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2 cents here, I use Apple OS. It has a base linux core, so I have used for long time the "audit" package.
This allows me to create a "audit trail" of file creations and access. I used to use a commercial product, but the
price ballooned too high for private use.
The advantage of using such, is I burn a back up copy weekly of any projects, (graphics, music, CAD, software, etc) and add at the end a copy of the weekly audit log file report. This has helped me more then once prove that, I developed such on my own, and on personal devices. I have been down the route before where company tried to claim ownership of tools I developed for my own use, on my own time.
Sadly it has gotten harder for a "garage inventor/developer" to file patents and such, but this kind of trail can help keep your ideas your own.
If you are using Windows, it might be a good idea to put together a cheap linux file server, and use it to store and access content. You logs will show the access via network to files, and can still create a trail.
Cheers.
fssntuff
This allows me to create a "audit trail" of file creations and access. I used to use a commercial product, but the
price ballooned too high for private use.
The advantage of using such, is I burn a back up copy weekly of any projects, (graphics, music, CAD, software, etc) and add at the end a copy of the weekly audit log file report. This has helped me more then once prove that, I developed such on my own, and on personal devices. I have been down the route before where company tried to claim ownership of tools I developed for my own use, on my own time.
Sadly it has gotten harder for a "garage inventor/developer" to file patents and such, but this kind of trail can help keep your ideas your own.
If you are using Windows, it might be a good idea to put together a cheap linux file server, and use it to store and access content. You logs will show the access via network to files, and can still create a trail.
Cheers.
fssntuff
All this talk about how to prove ownership...
When it comes down to it the only time you'll need to really dig deep to show proof is if something goes to court. And at that point it should be easy to figure out.
Using any third party cloud server (Google drive, Dropbox, etc) for back up of your personal/development files should do fine. Just make sure you keep at least one old copy on there and never get rid of it.
That shit is timestamped and easily verifiable.
When it comes down to it the only time you'll need to really dig deep to show proof is if something goes to court. And at that point it should be easy to figure out.
Using any third party cloud server (Google drive, Dropbox, etc) for back up of your personal/development files should do fine. Just make sure you keep at least one old copy on there and never get rid of it.
That shit is timestamped and easily verifiable.
- Jul 10, 2018
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Excellent points for anyone who is doing this as a living, and making income equivalent to at least a basic living wage. Absolutely.
However, in most places having a company does also mean tax returns, hiring an accountant, opening business bank accounts, etc. all of which do add up to extra expenses. Now, those costs vary in the US according to state laws, state taxes, etc. but in the EU and UK, the requirement to have a professional accountant is something that's likely to cost a few hundred Euros at least once a year, just to ensure the tax returns are legal.
I'd say if you are earning at least 500 Euros it is at least worth talking to an accountant about the best way to be legit, to minimize your risks, etc. But it's not at all necessary in terms of copyright, and not especially relevant therefore to this topic (however good a sidebar it may be).
Meanwhile, proof of ownership is often the absolute minimum you may need to get a hosting company or others to actually act against a paying customer. Your word vs his, where he pays their bills and you don't, isn't usually enough. Some very nervous ones might suspend his account merely on the filing of a DMCA, but most would want an outcome first, or, if you are lucky, will settle for evidence that your claim is legit - i.e. proof of ownership. Once provided with that, if they don't take the site down they are complicit in actively publishing stolen work when knowing it was stolen.
Very true. Here in the US, if you make over $600 in a year from a single source (i.e. patreon, paypal, etc) you must claim that income on taxes. I get the impression that a lot of the indie devs here aren't doing that. I don't know what other countries consider de minimis, but I do know that if for any reason your taxes are audited and you have not claimed your games income and they find out, you will have to pay it back, plus interest. And again, at least here in the US, there is no statute of limitation on how long they can go back to find this.
So for example, if I hadn't created this company, or just decided not to claim the revenue from the game on my taxes and decide in a month to quit this all forever, it could be fifteen years from now that I get an audit and with the interest the government is going to want, I'll owe them tens of thousands of dollars, minimum (in that scenario).
Even if it costs you a couple hundred dollars, it is a huge protection for yourself. I did this to look out for me. If you do or do not, that is entirely on you (whoever is reading this, not just RougeKnightUK).
this may be a hobby, but if you're making money and expect or hope to make more money with it, be smart.
- Mar 31, 2019
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F95 is full of copyrighted material: Milftoon, Jabcomix and many other siterips. There is also a section named "Cracking". But here you discuss about the creator's rights, how to protect them and how to close a site which does the same things of F95. Could you please explain?
F95Zone does not sell those games and does not claim ownership over them.
- Mar 31, 2019
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This doesn't answer my question. They put for free copyrighted material which is created and sold by other sites. Do you think it's perfectly legal?
It does not answer your question because your whole point was wrong to begin with.
"Lemon is the same as Orange. Could you please explain?"
It is not the same and I explained why.
Is piracy legal? Of course it is not.
We could stay all day here explaining the pro and cons but at the end, it does not even matter because most devs here know that F95Zone, whatever you want to call it piracy or not, brings visibility to their games and not only that but thanks to a pretty active community, also constructive feedback.
That italian website simply steals a game, changes the title and sells it while claiming its their work.
Pure scum with no pros whatsoever.
He did answer your question, but you can't distinguish between copyright and distribution right. No offense, this site do violates distribution rights, but they don't claim ownership of those creations and don't charge you money for download.
My game is free. We do not sell it. If another site hosts it for free, we can allow that, at our discretion.
If someone falsely claims ownership and/or sells it without our permission they are breaking the law.
Get the fuck out if you're here to be a troll
- Nov 2, 2018
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This is a pirating site - and never claimed to be something else.
The difference is that no one here tries to make profit out of it.
The thing is, that pirates aren't evil per se - some/most just can't or don't want to invest the according money to get what they want.
Many folks here provide feedback and/or help in other non-monetary ways and a huge bunch of developers is active here and use that like "I can't prevent people (or don't mind in the first place) getting my stuff for free - so why not get something out of it!?"
On top of that this site is basically a free advertisement area for them (many folks here try a game and start supporting the actual creators!).
To conclude:
Is this site absolutely legal? Of course not. (And even that is debatable since F95zone doesn't host the files itself)
But is it the same as taking foreign content and making money off of it? Hell no...
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- Jul 10, 2018
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Absolutely.
The difference is about respect.
As you say, F95 makes absolutely no attempt to hide the fact that it is a 'pirate' site. It never, ever, pretends to have created the games it has pirated. That alone is the huge difference between borrowing without asking, and outright theft.
Indeed, the site actually goes to considerable lengths to ensure proper attribution and links to the actual creator's site(s), pages, Discord servers, etc. are given. It ensures that credit goes to the creators.
Additionally, it has always been my experience here that members are encouraged to support developers and creators, including financially.
The forums at F95 provide an additional way for developers to gain feedback and exposure, do market research, and otherwise enhance their earnings. When you look at the end credits for almost any game on Patreon, you see a list of Patreons using their F95 forum names - which indicates quite clearly that many, if not most, top-tier subscribers created that Patreon account after creating an account here.
By contrast, the donkey-felching scuzz-monkey behind the Italian website does not just outright steal the games, it additionally takes credit for the work (a second theft), and even on top of that attempts to change all the names of the titles in order just to make absolutely certain that the game creators, and customers, are decieved and robbed to the utmost extent. The person(s) responsible are thus beyond reprehensible, they are morons. Their actions do the utmost possible to destroy the very spirit of the game creators they feed from like malaria-ridden parasites.
Clear enough?
Not sure if this is adding anything new to what RogueNightUK and others have said, but here's my 2ct from a devs perspective.
I put my own game up here at F95. I do it because I want as many people as possible to play it. I spend about 40 hours a week on it, on top of my full time dayjob!
Now, I don't care if you download and play my gave and give me nothing, because I want people to play it and enjoy it, first and foremost.
If you like it enough that you're willing to support me, kudo's to you, I can't thank you enough. It's a lot of work, and the assets ain't free either, so I'd love to get something out of it on top of the satisfaction of making something people enjoy.
But if someone were to take my game, pretend they put all those late nights and long weekends into it, and started collecting money for it, ef them, and with respect, ef you for not understanding the difference that it's people with a passion that are giving you these games, and this is hurting them.
- Jun 21, 2017
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I play your game and enjoy it very much! You are also on my list of creators I follow, every couple of months I look at my follow list and pledge to one of the creators I follow. What also matters to me is how you interact with people on here.
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