I think this needs to be said

[anne O'nymous]

Where, in any of those situations, is the threat of me losing the woman?

Please, don't take it as personal, it's not at all my intent, but it's far to be the first time I see you talk about this threat when it come to NTR, and something feel out of place here.

Whatever it's the woman (in a game) or your woman (in life), loosing her isn't a threat, it's only the consequence of your own choices ; the only exception is when she die. In any other case, you can loose her only if you don't treat her like she want you to do. It can mean being a romantic gentleman, like it can mean being a dick, it depend of the woman, what she love and why she love you. Take libertines, by example. There's more risk to loose her if you deny her the right to flirt and have sex with others, than when you let her act as it please her.
As long as she have reasons to love you, you'll never loose her, this even if she cross the path of someone and fall in love for him. Not that she'll deny this love, just that she'll not let it grow and take place in his life. So, if you loose her, it's your choice, conscious or not ; it's because you stopped to give her reasons to still love you. Which mean that there's no threat here, because it's your fault and only your fault, never the fault of your rival.
In terms of game it's exactly the same thing. Like loosing the girl is the "game over" (whatever it's of the game itself or just for this path), if you loose her it's only because of your own choice. You failed when playing, and it's the consequence.

The rivalry is just what make you still try to conquer her, to please her and amaze her, even after twenty years being together. In other words, it's what make you still give her reasons to love you, even in times when this love seem to be guaranty and granted for life. And this rivalry also have few to do with NTR.
NTR doesn't mean that you'll loose the girl, it mean that you'll have to share her. Whatever it's your choice or not to do so. The girl is yours, but she isn't yours only. So, technically there's no rival in NTR. You don't play against the other guys who bang the girl ; you play with them or despite them, but never against them. They are no threat for you, they are what keep alive the love she feel for you.
It's not my kink, but I understand that there's people who can love it. Like I understand that there's people who don't care at all because it's not "their woman" (in life) but just "a woman" (in a game).

So, I stand on my position. There's rivalry on the games I talked about. There's just no threat, because rivalry isn't a threat.

There is no rivalry for say Carli in DA. Despite her being a call girl she's dating me and I fuck her for free. No competition for her love.

She isn't dating you ! She agree to put some benefits in your friendship because you help her friend. If it was real life, start talking about love to her, and you'll never see her again.

The only way I can lose Carli in DA is by being a total dick but I don't lose her to another man.

Yes, you don't loose her to another man, you loose her to all the other men. Not because she's an escort, not because she'll fuck every single man she cross. No, you loose her because she know that there's way better all around the world ; and because she's an escort, she know it very well. That's what I said above. You'll loose her because of you and only because of you.
In life you don't need a rival to loose your woman. She don't need to fall for someone else, just to not love you anymore. Every single man she'll see in her life is a rival, because every single one of them show her what's missing in you ; I mean, if there's something missing, and like there's always something missing...
She don't even need to interact with them for that. She's a romantic and you aren't ? Every time she'll see a man opening the door for his woman, she'll know that there's better than you. Continue to do all the other thing that make her love you, and there's no risk. But stop to do so, and a day what rest of her love for you will not be enough. This day, she'll leave you, that's all. No need to direct rival, no threat, it all depend of you and just depend of you.
And like I said, it's the same in games. You need to act well with Carli because there's a lot of rivals all around you. There's other games where the girls are depicted as isolated from the world, and in these games you can act like you want. You'll not progress, but you'll also not loose the girl. Those girls act like they don't care, like they don't know what else a man can afford ; in those games you have no rival.

 

[DarthSeduction]

So, it's about the definition of NTR?

So basically there are two factions:

One faction are people who are sensitive about cheating, rival lovers or whatever you call it. They may have had personal traumatic experience and therefore I think they have any reason to be sensitive. A lot of people have commited suicide because they were cheated, so I strongly suggest, it's not something people should take lightly. I tend to feel compassion for them because I think these are the weakest and most vulnerable, even though they may not be aware of the correct definition of some genres here.

I'm NOT talking about trolls who are just here to say "cuck games are gross", or who like to ridicule or shame people with masochistic fetishes.

The other faction are developers who refuse to tag their games as NTR because they don't think that rivalry equals NTR. I'm certainly not an expert on NTR but as a writer I can understand that you don't want to label your work as something you don't consider it.

The solution: Some new tags for the forum - polyamory, love-triangle, rival lovers e.g. So everybody will know what's in the game, no bad surprises and artistic freedom for developers.

This, absolutely. I'd actually be using all 3 of those in one of the games I'm developing, and at least rival lovers, in the rest.

 

[rodneyeatme]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you what to like. But you should really do some soul searching on how vulnerable you are to the thought of competition. I mean, in the real world women aren't just there for your pleasure, you will have romantic rivals, even if you're married, its just biology. Now, in a committed relationship, those rivals are usually kept at bay so long as both you and your partner are good to one another, but in most of the relationships portrayed in these games, you're not in a committed relationship. There are going to be other fish in the sea. And to take it back to the OP's statement, especially in an incest game, it is utterly insane to think that your hot sister/daughter isn't going to have guys who will try to woo her. In those games, like in reality, your goal is to be the one who does the wooing. If you fail in that it's your fault.

I'm not saying that you have to play those games, at all. I'm not saying you have to change at all. What I am saying, is that if you start playing a game, and the characters act in a manner that faces the facts that the MC isn't the only fish in the sea, then the mature and adult thing to do is either, a, play with the knowledge that you have to defeat this rival, or b, quit playing because you're not interested, a totally viable option, and move on. Going into the thread to complain that the characters don't worship at the alter of MC is simply childish. Again. No one is forcing you to play these games. No one is telling you you have to enjoy these games. We are simply saying that if all you have to contribute is that you personally, for personal reasons, didn't enjoy the game, to keep it to yourself. If you have technical concerns, art isn't good, dialogue is wooden and unrealistic, story feels forced, it has no story and has instead used pure grind to advance to sex. These are valid complaints about mechanical and technical aspects of the game that can and should be changed. But going into a thread and complaining that the story doesn't suit your particular fetish is not. The dev isn't going to change this. And more to the point, we don't want devs who would.

Dude, seriously? These games are primarily masturbatory material.

You are basically saying that if an erotic game developer throws in a gay scene or that Japanese game's cock chopping scene, the truly mature and responsible reaction should not be to clamor for tags to be added or warn other potential players, but to remain silent so the game's developer can rope in more players and patrons.

Why do you feel you are entitled to dictate every player's response here?

 

[DarthSeduction]

Dude, seriously? These games are primarily masturbatory material.

You are basically saying that if an erotic game developer throws in a gay scene or that Japanese game's cock chopping scene, the truly mature and responsible reaction should not be to clamor for tags to be added or warn other potential players, but to remain silent so the game's developer can rope in more players and patrons.

Why do you feel you are entitled to dictate every player's response here?

Again, because you're completely incapable of understanding simple english. I have already stated I'm not supporting a developer who doesn't properly tag their work to show you its content. So you can stop with that line of reasoning. And you're fucking god damned right that I can add gay sex to my game If I want. I will make sure that you'll see the tag that says it has the content. I'd also be sure to make sure you know it's optional, as it will be in one of my games, where the male and female MCs are both Bisexual. No one is telling you not to call for proper tagging. That was never the point of this thread. Trying to make that the point of this thread is you misrepresenting the intent and creating what is known as a strawman.

Again, this thread talking about you walking into what is clearly a chinese restaurant and demanding they sell you a fucking cheeseburger. If that's what you are going to do, then the owner is going to kick you the fuck out. And when, as a patron of that chinese restaurant, I am trying to enjoy my meal, and a motherfucker comes in and makes a goddamned scene about the restaurant not catering to their specific desire, I'm gonna get up and help the owner kick that asshole from his establishment.

 

[Zippity]

In an adult game full of fulfilling the taboo wishes of our dirty minds, there is no fucking reason that an incest relationship needs to be so sacred that the mere idea of our fake virtual relative having sex with someone else needs to mean the game is ruined.

let me say that a different way: If you think that a game is ruined the moment your incest love interest shows an interest outside of you as the player character, you're ruining this entire industry.

there are a ton of new and ambitious devs that are being discouraged to the point that they stop trying.

you can hate a game. just remember that these things are often being made by one person or a small team. They aren't going to be perfect, and the only way they'll improve at all, is if the devs think they're doing something worthwhile.

just seen a lot of hate directed at 2 devs in particular for this exact reason lately.

Honestly I don't think it's something specific just to the Family Sex based games/visual novels... In the cases you mention, perhaps it's the specific fetish they used in their stories? I don't know... But in either case, it is a natural instinct in most humans to feel jealousy of one form or another, when their love/lust interest is being targeted by someone other then themselves... You can't deny people that feeling, as it's something primal that can't always be controlled... Yes, there are some folks who like to turn that feeling upside down and therefore either don't mind it, don't feel threatened by it, or actually get turned on by it... But that is not how a majority of humans, especially men, feel about those types of situations...

It is ingrained into the male psyche to look upon sexual competition as rivals needing to be squashed or gotten rid of... Look at most creatures in the animal world, as it happens everywhere... So how can you get upset, when others get upset by it... It's a natural emotional state, that can be overwhelming for some folks...

So when people yell and scream hater at people who don't like cuckold content, or netorare content, etc... You obviously don't know the history of those particular fetishes... When playing or reading a story/game with love/lust interests, typically most folks tend to become immersed in the main character and his/her goals (intentionally or not)... So when something comes along that is an emotional and/or sexual threat or competitor, most folks begin to naturally become jealous, or defensive, etc... So actual tension builds within the reader/player as they try to deal with the threat, and if it becomes a threat they can not deter or rid themselves of, tension builds to anger... It's a natural occurrence that may or may not be controllable, regardless if it's real life or a fictional game/story... With some folks they deal with their stress and/or anger by voicing their opinion about a subject... It's only when the discussion goes overboard and becomes more like a yelling match, rather then a mature discussion, is when Staff jumps in to squelch it before it devolves even more...

If a developer decides to include cuckold type content in their story and/or game, they should do so being fully aware at the probability of getting an emotional kickback from a lot of folks... And they should learn to just deal with it and keep doing what they are doing... And not take so much to heart, what some folks might say about it's inclusion, and do not engage with those nay-sayers, as it would just be throwing fuel on the fire... As long as the developer is initially up front about it's inclusion, that should be a good deterrent to wave off a majority of folks who dislike it in the first place... If a developer can't deal well with negative feedback, they may want to do something less public inclusive with their time, because it is a nature of the beast when it comes to any work put out there for public consumption...

 

[Jai Ho]

I made it very very clear in every single post, that I'm NOT anywhere near the people this thread is about, because I will certainly not run into any of these games, so your ad hominem arguement is a strawman at best and slander at worst. I was always talking about people who are at risk of running into an NTR game unwittingly and who may find the experience traumatic.
/QUOTE] .

Again...
"who are at risk of running into an NTR game unwittingly and who may find the experience traumatic."

Give me a break. Really? This has nothing to do with your personal agenda or beliefs, it's just that you are such a Saint that you want to save the world from the multiple heart-attacks and deaths happening daily because of NTR surprise? Please. Own it, don't make up some lame excuse that 'for the betterment of mankind...'

*News Flash*
We can't control anyone but ourselves... and We're talking about PORN GAMES / STORIES here guys. People are going to do what they are going to do. Some are going to label fastidiously, some are not. Get over it.

The only people that can MAKE a person label in a different manner is the owner of the website.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Again...
"who are at risk of running into an NTR game unwittingly and who may find the experience traumatic."

Give me a break. Really? This has nothing to do with your personal agenda or beliefs, it's just that you are such a Saint that you want to save the world from the multiple heart-attacks and deaths happening daily because of NTR surprise? Please. Own it, don't make up some lame excuse that 'for the betterment of mankind...'

*News Flash*
We can't control anyone but ourselves... and We're talking about PORN GAMES / STORIES here guys. People are going to do what they are going to do. Some are going to label fastidiously, some are not. Get over it.

The only people that can MAKE a person label in a different manner is the owner of the website.

I am on your side. That said the rules do plainly state that NTR should be tagged if it's included. Also on that note

NTR - General Definition
- Since this comes up so much in discussions. Regardless of someone thinks NTR, this is our definition.

Spoiler: definition

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

If a game has this in it and it is not properly tagged as such or listed in its Genre section of the OP. Please don't be that guy and be the asshole to start a debate or argument on it. Report the thread and state that it needs the NTR tag.

Now if you don't like this fetish or other certain fetishes in general, don't post. Don't start those conversations or bait someone. Be the adult and avoid the game.

So that's a staff member who has stated emphatically, you don't get to be an asshole and start a debate or agurment, you simply report the thread stating that it needs to be properly tagged. No need to make a post in the thread at all.

 

[Ataios]

Again...
"who are at risk of running into an NTR game unwittingly and who may find the experience traumatic."

Give me a break. Really? This has nothing to do with your personal agenda or beliefs, it's just that you are such a Saint that you want to save the world from the multiple heart-attacks and deaths happening daily because of NTR surprise? Please. Own it, don't make up some lame excuse that 'for the betterment of mankind...'

*News Flash*
We can't control anyone but ourselves... and We're talking about PORN GAMES / STORIES here guys. People are going to do what they are going to do. Some are going to label fastidiously, some are not. Get over it.

The only people that can MAKE a person label in a different manner is the owner of the website.

Consider yourself reported. Your lie about this having to anything to do with me personally is a vile imputation. Just because you are obviously incapable of even the most basic empathy doesn't mean other people are too.

 

[Gomly1980]

You seriously just reported someone for an opinion on a forum?

When the fuck did this turn into Tumblr?

 

[Ataios]

You seriously just reported someone for an opinion on a forum?

When the fuck did this turn into Tumblr?

Not an opinion, an imputation.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Consider yourself reported. Your lie about this having to anything to do with me personally is a vile imputation. Just because you are obviously incapable of even the most basic empathy doesn't mean other people are too.

Just saying, as I quoted direct from Ryahn, this discussion should be completely over. You, according to staff, should not be commenting in a thread about how you don't like NTR. If the thread is improperly tagged, you report the thread, say that it needs an NTR tag, and leave. Commenting in the thread gains nothing and is apparently against policy.

 

[Ataios]

Just saying, as I quoted direct from Ryahn, this discussion should be completely over. You, according to staff, should not be commenting in a thread about how you don't like NTR. If the thread is improperly tagged, you report the thread, say that it needs an NTR tag, and leave. Commenting in the thread gains nothing and is apparently against policy.

He insuated I was talking about myself and not on behalf of others. This is a vile lie and the reason I reported him. I didn't about anything I like or don't like but about the effects it may have on OTHER people NOT including myself. That vile liar still insuated, it could be about me.

The report is not about his opinion on the topic but about the imputation that I was talking about myself or my own tastes.

And no, the thread doesn't any tags, because it's general topic not about a specific fetish. People just shouldn't assume anyone is just talking about his personal tastes. Because I didn't do that. I made clear that I'm not among the group of people I'm worried about. But this vile liar just stated that.

 

[DarthSeduction]

He insuated I was talking about myself and not on behalf of others. This is a vile lie and the reason I reported him. I didn't about anything I like or don't like but about the effects it may have on OTHER people NOT including myself. That vile liar still insuated, it could be about me.

The report is not about his opinion on the topic but about the imputation that I was talking about myself or my own tastes.

And no, the thread doesn't any tags, because it's general topic not about a specific fetish. People just shouldn't assume anyone is just talking about his personal tastes. Because I didn't do that. I made clear that I'm not among the group of people I'm worried about. But this vile liar just stated that.

I didn't mean this topic, I meant the subject of this topic, which is largely related to the discussion of NTR in threads. I also don't quite think its fair for you to say it has nothing to do with you considering the responses you've given in this thread, but I don't care to fight over it either.

Again, in the future, if you come across a game that you find NTR in but it wasn't tagged, report the thread for that game and ask that the tag be added. As per the Staff, you should not post about it, as that only leads to toxic debate and not constructive criticism. This thread, should be over now, as that is the definitive answer about what to do from staff.

 

[Ataios]

I didn't mean this topic, I meant the subject of this topic, which is largely related to the discussion of NTR in threads. I also don't quite think its fair for you to say it has nothing to do with you considering the responses you've given in this thread, but I don't care to fight over it either.

Again, in the future, if you come across a game that you find NTR in but it wasn't tagged, report the thread for that game and ask that the tag be added. As per the Staff, you should not post about it, as that only leads to toxic debate and not constructive criticism. This thread, should be over now, as that is the definitive answer about what to do from staff.

I certainly, by a 100% chance will NOT run into a game that has (straight) NTR in it, because I wont download it in the first place. If you think that is possible, you believed that liar. But there are people who may and it's this people I'm concerned about, because to THEM, running into an NTR game is far worse than me running into one more game that didn't deserve the lesbian tag. I'm angry at this liar for telling people that I was talking about myself, that is the remaining problem here.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I certainly, by a 100% chance will NOT run into a game that has (straight) NTR in it, because I wont download it in the first place. If you think that is possible, you believed that liar. But there are people who may and it's this people I'm concerned about, because to THEM, running into an NTR game is far worse than me running into one more game that didn't deserve the lesbian tag. I'm angry at this liar for telling people that I was talking about myself, that is the remaining problem here.

But wouldn't you, if it did have the Lesbian tag? We both know that the people who freak out about NTR do so even at romantic rivals in games. So is it really so hard to believe you'll run into an NTR scene in a game that purportedly has Lesbian content in it, but isn't a lesbian only game?

 

[Ataios]

But wouldn't you, if it did have the Lesbian tag? We both know that the people who freak out about NTR do so even at romantic rivals in games. So is it really so hard to believe you'll run into an NTR scene in a game that purportedly has Lesbian content in it, but isn't a lesbian only game?

Absolutely impossible. I'd delete the moment I see it's not lesbian only and I don't mind lesbian NTR as I'm not an immersive player.

Did you really believe that liar I was bringing something from myself into this???

 

[DarthSeduction]

Absolutely impossible. I'd delete the moment I see it's not lesbian only and I don't mind lesbian NTR as I'm not an immersive player.

Did you really believe that liar I was bringing something from myself into this???

I felt like you've been defending the anti ntr position from the beginning of the thread. That guy wasn't needed, only your responses. In the end, it doesn't really matter though, because the problem is solved.

 

[Ataios]

I felt like you've been defending the anti ntr position from the beginning of the thread. That guy wasn't needed, only your responses. In the end, it doesn't really matter though, because the problem is solved.

I was on the side of the anti NTR faction because I deemed them weaker and more vulnerable than the pro NTR camp. Compassion, empathy. Like I'm in favor of Black Lives Matter, although my skin is white and I'm pro gay marriage despite being straight.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I was on the side of the anti NTR faction because I deemed them weaker and more vulnerable than the pro NTR camp. Compassion, empathy. Like I'm in favor of Black Lives Matter, although my skin is white and I'm pro gay marriage despite being straight.

But they're the ones demanding censorship, which is inherently wrong. Instead of seeing them as vulnerable, you should be seeing them as in need of a lesson in humility. Jealousy, the prime ingredient in making NTR work, should never be so strong that you react violently or in a way that might harm yourself. Instead of protecting someone with such intense feeling from feelings they should instead be subjected to them, especially in such a safe environment as games, so that they might learn to control their vitriolic rage.

 

[Jai Ho]

He insuated I was talking about myself and not on behalf of others. This is a vile lie and the reason I reported him. I didn't about anything I like or don't like but about the effects it may have on OTHER people NOT including myself. That vile liar still insuated, it could be about me.

The report is not about his opinion on the topic but about the imputation that I was talking about myself or my own tastes.

And no, the thread doesn't any tags, because it's general topic not about a specific fetish. People just shouldn't assume anyone is just talking about his personal tastes. Because I didn't do that. I made clear that I'm not among the group of people I'm worried about. But this vile liar just stated that.

Such the drama queen.
"He insuated I was talking about myself and not on behalf of others. This is a vile lie and the reason I reported him. I didn't about anything I like or don't like but about the effects it may have on OTHER people NOT including myself."
"I certainly, by a 100% chance will NOT run into a game that has (straight) NTR in it, because I wont download it in the first place. If you think that is possible, you believed that liar."

You seriously believe you are 'championing a cause' to help people "who are at risk of running into an NTR game unwittingly and who may find the experience traumatic".? People are going to be traumatized because they downloaded a porn game and it has NTR content in it. That is exactly what you are saying.

Take a step back. Now doesn't that sound a little bit silly?

Okay, here are more of your own words posted in Forums here -
" I don't like to watch another man fuck, so I prefer lesbian porn in any case, be it in game, movie or pictures. A lesbian game by necessity has a female protagonist and I don't like any male characters involved in the sex scenes.

There are very few male protagonist straight games I play, but they don't even come close to lesbian games for me. I don't play any female protagonist straight games.

Personally when playing games with female protagonists, I avoid any encounters with male characters and play lesbian content only."

These are your words above. What I am saying is OWN IT. Please stop pretending to be the flag bearer for a group of people that are... elusive at best and (realistically) nonexistent.