I think it's very easy to create a good game.

[Gwedelino]

Hmmm, nope. But I was close at first, when I was trying to make my "Hello world" project in Twine to even run, I had no idea where to code, write or anything in Twine, and the tutorials in youtube weren't clear enough. I almost discarded the project... but then I got it done, with my very first link . That helloworld screen is now the main screen of my game 1.5 years later.

Oh, and when I realized that doing a sandbox would take me years... but I pressed on anyway. The games that are my inspiration (Young Marcus, Hornstown and Shameless Impority) are sandboxes, so I keep insisting in my project. But doing a dev thread here made a HUGE difference. People here is willing to test and help with the development, even outside the games section (On the programming and Development section) and their constant feedback helped me A LOT.

Also, interacting with other devs helps. Have you seen the game Confidence Man? its creator, Whale_Shark , helped me A LOT with the Ui in my game, thanks to his tips I finally had a decent Ui. Reaching out other fellow HTML devs is great (also Alcahest -The monastery- gave me advice along the way).

I have some interactions with other devs, but not that much.

Ren'Py is incredibly friendly with new users. I think I will struggle more when I will need to do more complex things but for now it doesn't look like too much of a challenge to make it work.

 

[Ambir]

I have some interactions with other devs, but not that much.

Ren'Py is incredibly friendly with new users. I think I will struggle more when I will need to do more complex things but for now it doesn't look like too much of a challenge to make it work.

One piece of advice: Try to limite the size of your first project. Just make something simple and focus on completing the game. This will give you better odds of succeeding.

 

[Asia Argento]

This concept insults the HARD work of people like recreation, Runey, PhanesDionysos, 4 Min Warning, ollane, ArcGames, Dr Pink Cake, EVERYONE I have supported in my sig and many many many many many more I missed that are ALL WORKING HARD to put out classic stuff and this just makes it seem like they put zero effort into it. BS.

Even the least of devs--- for Innoxia, Team Nimbus, ICSTOR and the Spacecorps XXX knucklehead, they all have made something fun and shouldnt have their work cast aside to state they can do it with a magic wand.

 

[Ambir]

This concept insults the HARD work of people like recreation, Runey, PhanesDionysos, 4 Min Warning, ollane, ArcGames, Dr Pink Cake, EVERYONE I have supported in my sig and many many many many many more I missed that are ALL WORKING HARD to put out classic stuff and this just makes it seem like they put zero effort into it. BS.

Even the least of devs--- for Innoxia, Team Nimbus, ICSTOR and the Spacecorps XXX knucklehead, they all have made something fun and shouldnt have their work cast aside to state they can do it with a magic wand.

I wouldn't go too hard on OP just because they do not know much about game development. I think we should be supportive, as once they get started, they will be in need of support when they realize how much harder it can be than they realize.

 

[Asia Argento]

View attachment 1983093

I wouldn't go too hard on OP just because they do not know much about game development. I think we should be supportive, as once they get started, they will be in need of support when they realize how much harder it can be than they realize.

I havent run into your game, but I think its now watched due to your attitude here. I would find it hard not to be personally insulted, but thats just me.

 

[BeingADikDik]

How much you want to bet I can throw a football over them mountains?

 

[Ambir]

I havent run into your game, but I think its now watched due to your attitude here. I would find it hard not to be personally insulted, but thats just me.

Oh, yes of course I could feel insulted by OP's post. After all, I think everyone on this thread aside from OP agree that it's not quite so easy to make games. However, I once had a similar attitude, so I just find OP quite endearing, because they remind me of when I started making games. I don't know how passionate they are about it, but if they truly want to become a dev, I'd rather encourage them and give them help than become angry at what is basically ignorance due to lack of practical experience.

 

[DuniX]

I think everyone on this thread aside from OP agree that it's not quite so easy to make games.

And I disagree with all of you.
If you don't make the same "story/sandbox" visual novel garbage you can make some simple games with porn pretty cheap and easy and that still sells.
It's not the OP that is wrong. It is this entier cottage industry that is wrong.

 

[Gwedelino]

This concept insults the HARD work of people like recreation, Runey, PhanesDionysos, 4 Min Warning, ollane, ArcGames, Dr Pink Cake, EVERYONE I have supported in my sig and many many many many many more I missed that are ALL WORKING HARD to put out classic stuff and this just makes it seem like they put zero effort into it. BS.

Even the least of devs--- for Innoxia, Team Nimbus, ICSTOR and the Spacecorps XXX knucklehead, they all have made something fun and shouldnt have their work cast aside to state they can do it with a magic wand.

No, my point wasn't that it doesn't require hard work and a lot of efforts to make a good game, but that the "skill ceiling" required to make it is not that high.

It doesn't prevent people from making much more demanding game with challenging gameplay, or anything else that require a lot more skills.

It's still possible to create a very simple but polished game that will be considered as a good game.

 

[Ambir]

And I disagree with all of you.
If you don't make the same "story/sandbox" visual novel garbage you can make some simple games with porn pretty cheap and easy and that still sells.
It's not the OP that is wrong. It is this entier cottage industry that is wrong.

That's a lot of talk. You can try it and let me know how that works for you.

Edit: Sorry if this sounds dismissive. It's not really my intent, it's just, it's hard to argue with someone who tells you 'you're wrong' when 'you're wrong' is their entire argument. Like, bring me facts and maybe I'll be more inclined to have an intelligent discussion with you.
I don't personally disagree so much with the premise that story/sandbox games are maybe not ideal. What I disagree with is that it's easy and cheap. If you bring me facts, I'll be happy to change my mind. In fact, should you bring conclusive evidence, I'll be happy to embrace a new way of doing wholeheartedly if it is an improvement.

No, my point wasn't that it doesn't require hard work and a lot of efforts to make a good game, but that the "skill ceiling" required to make it is not that high.

It doesn't prevent people from making much more demanding game with challenging gameplay, or anything else that require a lot more skills.

It's still possible to create a very simple but polished game that will be considered as a good game.

This I agree with. However, saying this and saying that it's 'easy' are two different things.
With what you just said, I think you and I have a similar mindset. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking it can be low effort, otherwise, you might find yourself in trouble.

 

[Droid Productions]

View attachment 1983093

Note that this is the Gartner Hype Cycle, not the Dunning-Kruger effect

After an initial burst of optimisms, the Dunning-Kruger never gets up to High, because the more you know the more you understand what you don't know. I've spent 20+ years working in C++ professionally, I'd still count myself a 7 or so.

 

[poplol22]

it's funny how many people overestimate a lot of these games on this site. Regardless if OP has any game design experience or not the bar to making a good game isn't very high . AND to even further prove my point look at the forums of the most popular games on this site and you will constantly hear people complain about game devolvement taking too long.

Not saying game design is easy but I am saying that taking 9 months to create 2 sex scenes in a game and then claiming that game design is extremely difficult sounds stupid as fuck.

 

[poplol22]

This concept insults the HARD work of people like recreation, Runey, PhanesDionysos, 4 Min Warning, ollane, ArcGames, Dr Pink Cake, EVERYONE I have supported in my sig and many many many many many more I missed that are ALL WORKING HARD to put out classic stuff and this just makes it seem like they put zero effort into it. BS.

Even the least of devs--- for Innoxia, Team Nimbus, ICSTOR and the Spacecorps XXX knucklehead, they all have made something fun and shouldnt have their work cast aside to state they can do it with a magic wand.

Dude your are literally talking about a small minority of games, most games on this site don't have as much hard work put into them as your made to believe which is why so many games have 3+ years of development and still no end in sight.

 

[Alcahest]

it's funny how many people overestimate a lot of these games on this site. Regardless if OP has any game design experience or not the bar to making a good game isn't very high . AND to even further prove my point ...

Further? You didn't provide any kind of proof of any point with the first two sentences.

AND to even further prove my point look at the forums of the most popular games on this site look at the forums of the most popular games on this site and you will constantly hear people complain about game devolvement taking too long.

Not saying game design is easy but I am saying that taking 9 months to create 2 sex scenes in a game and then claiming that game design is extremely difficult sounds stupid as fuck.

I don't know which kind of backwards logic you are using that makes "game devolvement taking too long" prove that game design isn't hard. So game development going very fast would prove game design is hard, with your logic.

 

[poplol22]

Further? You didn't provide any kind of proof in the point with the first two sentences.
My proof is that the bar isn't set very high porn games, My bad I tried to dumb it down so people like you bud could understand without me directly offending your favorite games.

I don't know which kind of backward logic you are using that makes "game devolvement taking too long" prove that game design isn't hard. So game development going very fast would prove game design is hard, with your logic.

Uhhhhhhhh, read what I just said bud:

" I am saying that taking 9 months to create 2 sex scenes in a game and then claiming that game design is extremely difficult sounds stupid as fuck. "

At what point in my argument did I mention that " "game devolvement taking too long" prove that game design isn't hard "
If you honestly gathered that from the example I just made then you need to work on your comprehension skills. I said doing 2 months of work and claiming it as 9 months of work does not mean that it is hard for you to design a game.
Please don't twist my words.

Literally, before that, I just said game design is not easy

 

[jamdan]

I thing that creating a good game is not a question of skills, but more a question of time and ressources, which are in a way, easier to get than skill.

I think this is actually the opposite. You need time and resources (in the form of tutorials, courses, sometimes software/hardware etc.) to get skills in the first place. The whole thing about "practice makes perfect" and repetition until you improve, muscle memory etc. This is the main reason, if not the only reason, developers 2nd games tend to be better than their first. They time it took to develop the 1st game helped them gain skills for the 2nd.

But I think there is a difference between "popular" and "good". If you've been around here long enough, it's pretty apparent that not all the popular games are actually good games. And there are games that are good that are poorly supported.

Games that have poor renders/art, bad/cringy writing, and mediocre or buggy gameplay yet have a lively and active thread and good numbers of paid supporters.

And games that have good art, solid writing and no major bugs yet have a modest thread and not so many supporters.

Honestly, I can't think of anything more disheartening than putting all the time and effort into making a good game, only to see people not support it but even more so gush over a game that in comparison to yours, is crappy and the developer is obviously less talented/skilled than you.

 

[Alcahest]

Uhhhhhhhh, read what I just said bud:

" I am saying that taking 9 months to create 2 sex scenes in a game and then claiming that game design is extremely difficult sounds stupid as fuck. "

At what point in my argument did I mention that " "game devolvement taking too long" prove that game design isn't hard "
If you honestly gathered that from the example I just made then you need to work on your comprehension skills. I said doing 2 months of work and claiming it as 9 months of work does not mean that it is hard for you to design a game.
Please don't twist my words.

Literally, before that, I just said game design is not easy

Okay, so exactly what point were you proving when you wrote "AND to even further prove my point look at the forums of the most popular games on this site and you will constantly hear people complain about game devolvement taking too long."?

And which point did you prove before that when you wrote "it's funny how many people overestimate a lot of these games on this site. Regardless if OP has any game design experience or not the bar to making a good game isn't very high ."?

 

[Gwedelino]

I think this is actually the opposite. You need time and resources (in the form of tutorials, courses, sometimes software/hardware etc.) to get skills in the first place. The whole thing about "practice makes perfect" and repetition until you improve, muscle memory etc. This is the main reason, if not the only reason, developers 2nd games tend to be better than their first. They time it took to develop the 1st game helped them gain skills for the 2nd.

But I think there is a difference between "popular" and "good". If you've been around here long enough, it's pretty apparent that not all the popular games are actually good games. And there are games that are good that are poorly supported.

Games that have poor renders/art, bad/cringy writing, and mediocre or buggy gameplay yet have a lively and active thread and good numbers of paid supporters.

And games that have good art, solid writing and no major bugs yet have a modest thread and not so many supporters.

Honestly, I can't think of anything more disheartening than putting all the time and effort into making a good game, only to see people not support it but even more so gush over a game that in comparison to yours, is crappy and the developer is obviously less talented/skilled than you.

I too make a difference between popular and good games. But I think a popular game can't fail at everything it tries to do.

It's often about which tags the game has.
Male protagonist + Harem + Incest is usually an absolute win.

 

[poplol22]

I think this is actually the opposite. You need time and resources (in the form of tutorials, courses, sometimes software/hardware etc.) to get skills in the first place. The whole thing about "practice makes perfect" and repetition until you improve, muscle memory etc. This is the main reason, if not the only reason, developers 2nd games tend to be better than their first. They time it took to develop the 1st game helped them gain skills for the 2nd.

But I think there is a difference between "popular" and "good". If you've been around here long enough, it's pretty apparent that not all the popular games are actually good games. And there are games that are good that are poorly supported.

Games that have poor renders/art, bad/cringy writing, and mediocre or buggy gameplay yet have a lively and active thread and good numbers of paid supporters.

And games that have good art, solid writing and no major bugs yet have a modest thread and not so many supporters.

Honestly, I can't think of anything more disheartening than putting all the time and effort into making a good game, only to see people not support it but even more so gush over a game that in comparison to yours, is crappy and the developer is obviously less talented/skilled than you.

You're absolutely right when you say that there is a difference between Popular and Good.

I don't doubt that most developers put effort into their games, but the vast majority of games on this site are not good games regardless of if they're popular or not and I know that is hard for many people on this site to grasp especially since they either love these games to death or they just don't give a fuck if they're shitty or not.

You guys have to keep in mind when I say that most of these developers don't start with high game design experience. If you don't play a lot of these games on this site it is really easy to overlook flawed design elements because "The art is so sexy"

 

[poplol22]

Okay, so exactly what point were you proving when you wrote "AND to even further prove my point look at the forums of the most popular games on this site and you will constantly hear people complain about game devolvement taking too long."?

And which point did you prove before that when you wrote "it's funny how many people overestimate a lot of these games on this site. Regardless if OP has any game design experience or not the bar to making a good game isn't very high ."?

My point is that the bar isn't set very high for a game to be better and in the fact, these games have very obvious games design flaws that I honestly didn't need to mention because most people in this thread seem to be aware of them which is why I didn't mention them. I figured that most people who are discussing this topic in the thread don't need me to specifically explain why these games are as popular as they are since they have most likely played them. (Here's a hint it's the art style.)

In terms, I've what I've said about "AND to even further prove my point look at the forums of the most popular games on this site and you will constantly hear people complain about game devolvement taking too long." My point is that the bar isn't set very high (which I mentioned but didn't get too specific) and to further prove that people complain that the game is taking to long to complete because they know that only getting 2 sex scenes in 9 months is bullshit.