I think it's very easy to create a good game.

[Gwedelino]

It's a bit of a daring title, so I need to explain myself first.

I will make a clear difference between quality and popularity, as I think it's way more difficult to make a popular game than to make a good game.

So I'm not talking here about having a ton of followers or having a successfull Patreon, those are things way more difficult to achieve and which additionally depends on many others conditions like reaching popular fetish, being skilled at communication or even having a bit of luck.

I'm simply talking about having a game that looks and feels good for most people. The kind of game which mostly receive very positive reviews and that when people doesn't want to play it, it's more because they're not into the content featured than it's a trash game.

The skillfloor of game making for H games is incredibly low. People don't need to be incredibly skilled in either coding / programing / writing / rendering to make a good game, The audience will often give you a pass about one of the three main pillars of H-game which are Gameplay / Writing / Visuals if the others two are alright.
You only need to focus on two of them to even make a great game and I think it's pretty easy to find good games on F9 that completely miss one of those pillar but succeed at the two others, and this for every possible pattern :

- Good gameplay and visuals but poor writing
- Good gameplay and writing but bad visuals
- Good writing and visuals but poor gameplay


I thing that creating a good game is not a question of skills, but more a question of time and ressources, which are in a way, easier to get than skill. (not for everyone, I know)
As long as people are willing to put time and ressources into the developement of the game, then they will be able to create a good H game, no matter what their game making level is, and this even if it's their very first game.


I'm curious to read what's your opinion about that.

 

[Meaning Less]

Good or Bad is something completely subjective and relative. It is impossible to make everyone agree that any single thing is good, you can put a masterpiece in front of someone that has no patience and they will always complain your game is too long or boring...

Don't aim for perfection, instead aim for something you yourself consider good and like-minded people will enjoy that as well, but be ready for haters because they will also show up.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

People don't need to be incredibly skilled in either coding / programing / writing / rendering to make a good game, The audience will often give you a pass about one of the three main pillars of H-game which are Gameplay / Writing / Visuals if the others two are alright.

Wrong on both counts, but alright...

I thing that creating a good game is not a question of skills, but more a question of time and ressources, which are in a way, easier to get than skill.

The reverse is actually true... and this is from someone who spends a lot of time around professional illustrators and artists. The difference between a professional and amateur is that the former can do every the latter can, while the opposite isn't true. What's you're thinking of is scope, which is an entirely different concept, and isn't related to the quality of the game itself.

I'm curious to read what's your opinion about that.

Instead of typing out a 1,000-word essay on why I think you're wrong, I'll just say this: I dare you to make a game. Any game. A tiny, small game, with only 15 minutes of content. Get some free art from the net, or use DAZ for the ero-content, write the story, and tie it together with scripting. Try it, and you'll see what a gargantuan undertaking it is. If it's so easy, you'll have proven me wrong, and will have made something you can be proud of.

Best of luck!

 

[RNGeusEX]

Instead of typing out a 1,000-word essay on why I think you're wrong, I'll just say this: I dare you to make a game. Any game. A tiny, small game, with only 15 minutes of content. Get some free art from the net, or use DAZ for the ero-content, write the story, and tie it together with scripting. Try it, and you'll see what a gargantuan undertaking it is. If it's so easy, you'll have proven me wrong, and will have made something you can be proud of.

I could not have said it better, the theory is simple but the practice... is much more complicated.

And if making a successful game was that easy, it would be known. I'm not going to lie to you, it's a lot of work, a lot of devotion, a lot of sleep, a lot of stress and a thousand other things that I forgot to mention.

But the best thing is to try to realize it, I wish you to have the success you wanted

 

[MarbleCrown]

I disagree. The skills required to make a good game are more important than time alone and often the more skill you have the less time it takes to make content (not always). Taking DAZ as an example. I think my renders are the best they've ever been and I'm producing them much faster than I did in the past.

That being said, I think the true challenge of making a 'good' game is having the knowledge of what makes a game 'good'. This is also a subjective question so the answer to what is a 'good' game comes down how well it is received even though that can be hard to quantify. So the aspects of what makes a VN good would be vastly different than what makes an RPG good. In order to gain knowledge of the type of game they want to make, the creator has to be well-versed in the creations that already exist in that space. You can't write a good novel without first reading and studying good novels or you can't make good music without first listening to good music. On top of that, you have to understand what makes these creations good. This is, I think, the actual and most relevant barrier to creating anything 'good'.

One thing I will concede though is that in the adult gaming space it is much easier (not EASY though) to produce quality content compared to many other mediums because the bar is so low in comparison. This is because adult games are truly in a state of infancy still and haven't matured to the level of quality as the industries it borrows from, specifically normal video games and adult art.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Games, even adult ones, are made to entertain us. We can be entertained by average quality, but it's way more difficult to do it when one of the main points is bad. Or it is so bad that it become laughable, then we will be entertained, but it will be on the back of the author.

- Good gameplay and visuals but poor writing

Unless it's a pure fuck feast, the writing will drown the game through the drain.
Sex everywhere and every time is the only thing that can effectively save a bad writing. Mostly because people will not care about the text, just fast forwarding from a sex scene to another.

- Good gameplay and writing but bad visuals

This one can pass, yes, because we don't expect too much.
But there's a limit at how bad the visuals can be. The game, or story, interest will need to be inversely proportional to the quality of the visual. Players will then focus on the text, bearing the bad CGs, either because they really want to know what will happen next, or because the gameplay is addictive.

- Good writing and visuals but poor gameplay

This will just annoy the players and make them search for something else.
While the writing is really important, the gameplay can't afford to be effectively bad. If there's something that can really kill a game for everyone, it's a bad gameplay. You can have a literature Nobel Price and be the new Da Vinci, if your gameplay is effectively bad, your game will sink.
If can looks bad, because you suck at design, but it need to still worth something behind it's appearance.

And you forgot something, because knowing how to code your game, and having a good gameplay aren't really linked. Most game designers, so the peoples responsible from the gameplay, know shit about coding, while there isn't this many coders who are also good game designers.

I thing that creating a good game is not a question of skills, but more a question of time and ressources, which are in a way, easier to get than skill. (not for everyone, I know)

What prove that you never tried to create a game, not even a bad one.
Of course, you don't need to be gifted to make a game, but you can't afford to be effectively bad at whatever the art, writing or coding.

 

[simarimas]

You didn't even touch on the story itself. The basis for the game. This is sometimes the most important aspect I think. You can have great writing and dialogue, and a shit story that no one cares about. But if you have a great story, with poor writing, that can make a huge difference.

And knowing what you want to do is a hell of a lot different than actually doing it. "I am going to make a perpetual motion machine. How hard can it be, I know what a perpetual motion machine is, and what it does, so making it will be easy." Then you have to actually make it. That is where it all falls apart.

Grand ideas are a far cry from a finished product. Believe me, I know first hand.

 

[Gwedelino]

Instead of typing out a 1,000-word essay on why I think you're wrong, I'll just say this: I dare you to make a game. Any game. A tiny, small game, with only 15 minutes of content. Get some free art from the net, or use DAZ for the ero-content, write the story, and tie it together with scripting. Try it, and you'll see what a gargantuan undertaking it is. If it's so easy, you'll have proven me wrong, and will have made something you can be proud of.

Best of luck!

No need to dare me, that's a challenge I'm already working on. This whole thread is kind of my little take as a inexperienced dev.

Moreover, I fully agree about saying that creating a good game require a gargantuan amount of work. What I'm unsure of is if it also requires a gargantuan amount of skill.

To simplify, I currently imagine that creating a good game is like having to fetch water from a well witch is 2 kilometers away from your home 1000 times.

It's something that will require a lot of efforts on a very long span of time, not everybody will even try to make it, but at the end, that's something a lot of people could achieve because the skill level to go fetch that water is kinda low.

 

[simarimas]

Good luck!

 

[Carpe Stultus]

Yes it's absolutely easy to create a good game. I bet they all thought the same or at least most of them.



Even if you were a top artist, gifted writer and a coding animal doesn't mean that your game will be liked. You have to have the right kinks, right story, a crazy release speed and you need a shitload of luck to attract enough people so you get the right to call your game good. Otherwise you are just going to be one of many with an average game.

 

[Meaning Less]

To simplify, I currently imagine that creating a good game is like having to fetch water from a well witch is 2 kilometers away from your home 1000 times.

About this, it depends on the game you are creating and how you are going about it.

For instance if you are creating something technically challenging, like a real time game or something with unique artwork/gameplay mechanics then skill becomes a lot more important than time, because someone unskilled could get completely stuck or just never be able to complete the game in time.

But yes, if you take a more simple and grindy approach you could boil it down to just a lot of repetition and time.

Just don't forget that even when taking the simplest approach skill can still affect the development time a lot, not only technical skill but also editorial skill, knowing what you can cut and where you should focus your efforts instead can help you avoid wasting hours and hours on elements that would add nothing at all to your game.

You can always get better and work faster, there is always something new to learn on the horizon.

 

[Gwedelino]

Yes it's absolutely easy to create a good game. I bet they all thought the same or at least most of them.

View attachment 1976529

Even if you were a top artist, gifted writer and a coding animal doesn't mean that your game will be liked. You have to have the right kinks, right story, a crazy release speed and you need a shitload of luck to attract enough people so you get the right to call your game good. Otherwise you are just going to be one of many with an average game.

I think you're crossing the line between creating a popular game and creating a good game here.

You don't need to have the right kinks, story and a high speed release to create a good game, that's more something you need for getting popular more easily.

 

[Carpe Stultus]

I think you're crossing the line between creating a popular game and creating a good game here.

You don't need to have the right kinks, story and a high speed release to create a good game, that's more something you need for getting popular more easily.

Not really, your game has to be popular for people to recognize your game as good and if you have the wrong kinks, your story, gameplay, code and visuals can be godlike, for a lot of people your game will still be bad.

I know how it sounds and it shouldn't make sense, but look around on this site and you'll understand why i wrote it this way.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

I think it's very easy to create a good game.

And i think sentient life is pretty much guaranteed to exist, somewhere out-there.
I'm yet to prove it tho, how about you?

 

[Gwedelino]

Not really, your game has to be popular for people to recognize your game as good and if you have the wrong kinks, your story, gameplay, code and visuals can be godlike, for a lot of people your game will still be bad.

I know how it sounds and it shouldn't make sense, but look around on this site and you'll understand why i wrote it this way.

If it was right, it would mean that every game that doesn't feature "mainstream" kink can only be bad.

Gay games are not mainstream here since a huge majority of people are straight and looking for straight content, but I'm pretty sure that you can find Gay games that are considered good by Yaoï and Gay games enjoyers.

 

[Soniram]

Not really, your game has to be popular for people to recognize your game as good and if you have the wrong kinks, your story, gameplay, code and visuals can be godlike, for a lot of people your game will still be bad.

I know how it sounds and it shouldn't make sense, but look around on this site and you'll understand why i wrote it this way.

The idea of a "good" game is entirely, completely, subjective to the player. There are a few outliers, but most devs are putting out what they think are "good" games, however there are plenty of low-rated, ill-regarded games on this website. If it is so easy, then there should be more. Almost every game should be "good" if it was simple.

I did what someone above suggested before. I tried to make a non-adult VN without knowing anything. Going into Ren'py with just the programs and an idea. It took a long time to get it anywhere near where I thought it was good, and it was still pretty terrible. It never got finished.

However, that experience got me to the next challenge, which has now gotten me to this one I'm currently on. It's still not a "good" game in my opinion, but I'm trying and I'm learning. Like any other creative exercise, being a game dev in this genre requires experience to make a good game.

And then again, realize that what I consider a good game is maybe not what you consider a good game. It's subjective. All of it.

 

[desmosome]

This is one of the worst takes.

If you mean it's "easy" to create a porn game, then you might be right. If you actually mean it's easy to create a good game, then the simple observation that the majority of porn games that exist at any moment are objectively bad says otherwise.

All 3 core aspects (writing, visuals, coding) of making a game is skill based. Right off the bat, the vast majority fail immediately at the writing part, in a visual novel. Gameplay (coding, game design) is perhaps even harder than the writing to be good at because very few devs actually succeed in standing out in this category. The renders/art is obviously skill based. There is a vast difference in cinematography between the talented and the average, even when you hand them the same machine/assets.

So you just mean that it's easy to create a game. Your idea of good might basically just be that it runs without crashing, has pictures, and is written in somewhat coherent English.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

Your idea of good might basically just be that it runs without crashing, has pictures, and is written in somewhat coherent English.

Hey, even that would still put it among the top 15% or so of porn games in general!

 

[Carpe Stultus]

The idea of a "good" game is entirely, completely, subjective to the player. There are a few outliers, but most devs are putting out what they think are "good" games, however there are plenty of low-rated, ill-regarded games on this website. If it is so easy, then there should be more. Almost every game should be "good" if it was simple.

I did what someone above suggested before. I tried to make a non-adult VN without knowing anything. Going into Ren'py with just the programs and an idea. It took a long time to get it anywhere near where I thought it was good, and it was still pretty terrible. It never got finished.

However, that experience got me to the next challenge, which has now gotten me to this one I'm currently on. It's still not a "good" game in my opinion, but I'm trying and I'm learning. Like any other creative exercise, being a game dev in this genre requires experience to make a good game.

And then again, realize that what I consider a good game is maybe not what you consider a good game. It's subjective. All of it.

That is exactly my point, it is subjective to the players. You can think yourself that you've made a good game and it might be right from the technical standpoint but the players decide if its good or not in the end.

If it was right, it would mean that every game that doesn't feature "mainstream" kink can only be bad.

Gay games are not mainstream here since a huge majority of people are straight and looking for straight content, but I'm pretty sure that you can find Gay games that are considered good by Yaoï and Gay games enjoyers.

For many the ones that don't feature the mainstream kink are bad, nothing you can do about it.

Your gay game example wasn't a good choice as example because gay isn't a kink like incest and so on.

 

[DuniX]

You didn't even touch on the story itself. The basis for the game. This is sometimes the most important aspect I think. You can have great writing and dialogue, and a shit story that no one cares about. But if you have a great story, with poor writing, that can make a huge difference.

It's a complete Western idiocy for always equating Adult Games with Visual Novels and thus "stories" that take a decade to "complete" by milking it on Patreon.
If you look at Japanese Games that are released there are all kinds of games. RPG games, Strategy games, Puzzle games, Management games.

With Daz or Honey Select/Koikatsu which is the "standard" development for western games you can get Porn Content for cheap.
If you look at what japanese uses in terms of "Drawings" they get 4-10 scenes per girl while you find hundreds to thousands of renders in western games. Sex Content is pretty much not a problem.

There absolutely nothing stopping you for cloning a game that is popular nowadays and adding some Porn to it.
Where is the "Western" equivalent of this games?
https://f95zone.to/threads/resist-t...-the-female-knight-v1-03-boroborogame.124699/
https://f95zone.to/threads/space-treasure-v1-2-monster-ken.122975/
https://f95zone.to/threads/escape-dungeon-2-final-hide-games.93879/

Are they not "good games"? Are they too hard to make?