Like mentioned early in this thread, make sure to keep distance between the MC and the women that would be sleeping with others. By not establishing a strong emotional connection and limited communication, the player could be rather oblivious to the detailed actions the women are engaged in unless they choose otherwise. Meanwhile the genuine romantic interests could be kept on a loyal path with MC, since they're more fleshed out characters, the player is unlikely to even care about the women with one dimensional personalities doing stuff in the background.
How can one who dislikes NTR, who also has three women loyal to them, enjoy a game with brothels, strip clubs, gloryholes & sex clubs?
- Thread starter hakarlman
- Start date
- Apr 14, 2018
- 580
- 791
LONG PREAMBLE, BUT VALUABLE CONTEXT FOR THE POSITION I'M TAKING. GOOD READ & GOOD INFO TO KEEP IN MIND, BUT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ IT ALL, SKIP TO PREAMBLE OVER.
Bit late to the conversation on this one, though I just now came upon this thread. I'm not gonna lie, that's a bit of a tough needle to thread. The reason being is because the first cornerstone principal that you have to account for is this. On here, just like in everyday real life, you have a mix of smart, mentally & emotionally stable & well balanced people that actually appreciate works of quality mixed with people that are exceedingly dumb, mentally & emotionally unstable & unfortunately are exceedingly entitled, narcissistic & clueless about anyone but themselves. Now, while this point won't have much direct bearing on the work itself, it is important to keep in mind regarding the reception of your game. Now, while in reality, the smarter, more stable people are to some extent the majority, with the less desirable folks being in the minority, (more or less), they are certainly more vocal as they typically lack the general intelligence, Emotional balance & social aptitude to, well... know better.
For example, just take a stroll through the confidently incorrect or not how girls work subreddits. Some classics that have been memed to death are the, (comically more than 1), guys that post "women don't actually enjoy sex, I know because I've been with plenty of women & none of them enjoyed it", lacking the basic common sense & self awareness to realize they just publicly said for all to see, "I can't get a woman off". Another great classic being, (again more than 1), guys posting that women can't piss because urine is stored in the balls, which they don't have". You get the point.
I should also clarify that when I say things like being smart, mentally & emotionally balanced & socially competen
t, at least in relevance to this area, What I mean are possessing the character traits of being sociable, self awareness, not being narcissistic / self absorbed, Being able to perceive & interact with others, (especially women), in a normal & healthy way.
Now the reason why this is important is because it's key in understanding the main draw of these types of media & the concentration of these 2 overarching groups of people in this community. See, we all know that the main purpose & appeal of adult VNs & porn in general is stuff to jack off to.
Most smart, well balanced & competent guys are typically better at obtaining & maintaining real relationships, as such, they are less interested in general in adult content, as they typically are for the most part getting their sexual & emotional needs fulfilled with their actual relationships, plus those relationships are where they invest most of their free time. Now, having said that, do some of them also enjoy adult entertainment like this? Sure. I'm one of them. I'm all for some good spicy content in a good story. Some have kinks that are great in theory, but not not so much in reality. However, we are in the minority.
So from there, let's look at the rest of the community. Now, I imagine that a large contingent of that remainder also consists of guys that are also smart & well adjusted, but due to things like social anxiety, low self image & lack of confidence, struggle significantly to get relationships & use media like this as a substitute for sexual stimuli. However, in that larger group, you also have tons of incels, Red / black pill / MGTOW idiots & others that fall solidly in the dumb, unstable & socially inept category. These last types are the ones that you typically see being most vocal & narrow about what they will & won't accept in games they they are getting for free & not really contributing in any substantial way to, (did I mention they were dumb)? Anyways, these people make up the majority of this community because, for obvious reasons, they have significantly less, (often zero), success in any kind of sexual relationships with real women, so this kind of media is what they utilize for their sexual gratification. Not pointing this out to make any judgement calls on anyone, just pointing out what we already know.
Now the reason for all this seemingly unrelated preamble is this. When it comes to the NTR fans vs NTR haters back & forth,
most people TRULY don't care. There's tons of people of the mind of "NTR isn't really my thing, but I mean if the rest of the game is good, I'll give it a shot. Especially if it's avoidable, or if the game has more to offer than just that." Likewise, there's tons of NTR fans that say "I like NTR, but if the game has other routes that are different, That's cool too". These are the usually silent, sane, rational bulk of those sub-communities. They are not the people you see in the back & forth comments. No, those are the unhinged, unstable & stupid ones that make up the bulk of the visible noise. The ones that you see going out of their way to either shit talk, or say they are passing on a game, just because it features some NTR comment, especially in cases where it's avoidable, you have to wonder, "Dude, you're THAT fragile that the avoidable risk that bad choices in the game might lead to a bit of NTR? IN A FUCKING GAME? REALLY?"
As for their pro-NTR counterparts, The are just as, if not more unhinged, almost cult-like. See, for them, Writing an interesting NTR themed story isn't "good enough", no no no, you as a creator need to NTR an NTRing NTR NTR NTR that is NTR NTR NTRNTRNTRNTRNTR CRAM IN MOAR NTR, [insert a jpeg of a soyjack twitching on the floor, foaming at the mouth while muttering "ntrntrntrntrntr"... What does that even mean, you might ask? Well, for these cretins, it MUST rigidly follow the same, fatalistic, paint by numbers formula. The happy, wholesome & over the top sappily in love couple in the beginning, bad guy antagonist comes in, starts seducing & manipulating the wife, she get's rapidly corrupted over a series of encounters, she becomes a heartless, mindless sex addict & either husband remains inexplicably oblivious or they reveal the affair to him & he's sad, cut the ending off without any actual real ending & all choices & branches in the game must all be different variations of that same, static trajetory with only the most trivial & meaningless of variation. Now, even if that's the shit that get's these guys dicks rock hard, for most people, it gets rather... well.... BORING. It's literally the 4u0340302403423434th rerun of the exact same story.
So one would think, to keep things interesting, maybe have some choices where the MC is able to turn the tables & win, or maybe after the "reveal", he snaps & goes on a revenge arc for some measure of pyrric victory, or maybe where the NTR ends could be the midpoint & the back half of the game is him rebuilding his life & moving on with someone better. Most rational people would look at that & say "Hey, that's pretty cool. There's something for everyone there. This is pure heresy for those specific NTR fans. Just like the nutjobs on the anti-NTR side that shreik that the mere presence of ANY NTR, even if it's completely avoidable, is intolerable, as though even a drop of it somehow taints & ruins it's pure aryan heritag.... er... I mean... Ruins the purity of their harem game... The NTR "purist" types are equally as psychotic with their insistance that a single drop of anything that's not purely in strict service of NTR in the game "ruins" it & therefore makes it no longer count as "legitimate" NTR. Not only that, but merely even saying "wait... That doesn't even make sense. What are you, insane?" To them, that's not legitimate criticism, additionally, they will take the actual content of your critique, throw all of it out the window, & then screech that you are an existential threat to lord god NTR, because you're "an NTR hater that is just hating on NTR & trying to take their precious NTR away from them". Even if you're actually a fan of the genre & your "transgression" was as innocuous as saying "wait, I don't get it, what's the big deal if there's ADDITIONAL content that appeals to others, as long as all the NTR content that otherwise would have been there anyway is still in?" Doesn't matter. You've committed a treasonous transgression against lord god NTR & must be shunned as the "anti-NTR apostate" that they believe that you are.
As should be crystal clear by this point, The vocal participants in the Pro vs anti NTR squabble are the lowest IQ, Lowest EQ, most unhinged & defective of the community. It should come as no surprise that the overlap in the ven diagram of those people & the incels & derranged psycho parts of the community is basically a perfect circle. As such, these are the people that are most demanding, but least deserving of anyone pandering to them. They are the Karens of the community & should be treated as such.
PREAMBLE OVER
So, I know that was a long bit of preamble, but stick with me. With all that preliminary context taken under consideration, the next thing that you need to ask yourself is "WHY am I making this game & WHOM am I pandering to?" If your goal is to make something creative that you can take pride in & really want it to be something GOOD, my advice is to not worry so much about pandering to specific kinks, but rather focus on crafting a really good, unique story with good, engaging characters. THAT should be your cornerstone. You can find ways to weave different kinks into it, especially if you're not afraid of making a story that REALLY branches in different directions. It may require more writing & such, sure. But quality takes time & effort. You could have a game that, depending on choices made, could go down a harem path on 1 route, a vanilla pure love on another, a swinging path on yet another & an NTR path on yet another. On the swinging & harem paths, you could even include option triggers that could expand the love interest options to include family, roping in the incest crowd too. The key is, story boarding out how those different routes might look, structuring the characters in a way that could lead them in those directions & then paving the way in a way that's logical, natural & makes sense. MOST of the people that actually appreciate quality will be more apt to appreciate this & will be more likely to support it. Even if it's not anchored to any specific kink, if the quality of the story, characters & craftsmanship is there, then it will be appreciated.
Now if your position is, "I don't really care all that much about the product itself, (as in you're not really personally invested into what it is), I just want to make whatever will maximize monetary profits & / or clout". Well this branches again. is the goal just clout & bragging rights? If so, is it clout for high quality? If so, refer to prior paragraph. If it's more number of fans, then just pick a kink, pander as much as possible to that crowd, & whle you may alienate some portions of the community, you will be damn near worshipped by the fans of that kink. Now, personally that's about as worthless, (IMHO), as bragging about your Reddit Karma score, but hey, that kind of shit is important to some people for some reason.
Now, if your goal is to make money, Here again, you have to kind of think ahead. I mean, a purely harem or purely NTR smut packed romp will certainly get you a LOT of built in, really excited fans, HOWEVER, these are the 2 kinks with the largest concentration of those defective type fans. (again, to be clear, I'm not saying ALL harem & NTR fans are defective, I'm talking about the specific types of fans that I referenced earlier that are the main contributers to the brain dead back & forth bickering). With that in mind, knowing that these people, as individuals, are so defective & socially incompetent that THIS is their substitution for their lack of any actual success with women, What do you suppose their success with upward mobility & ability to attain & maintain employment / income that allows them to have the disposable income to contribute via Patreon or what not, to supporting you? If we're being realistic here, the bulk of them likely don't have a lot of professional success or substantial income either. Also keeping in mind, these are the same folks that have the highest level of narcissism & entitlement & the lowest level of self awareness, these details combined means that the bulk of them will be the most opinionated & demanding that you pander to what they want, while putting absolutely ZERO coin in your pocket. Now, that said, let's say you pick the NTR genre, you'll get a decent sized chunk of fans that will be willing to consistently support you. I mean for example, HangoverCat is making a couple thousand bucks a month. However, using Mr Dots as an example again, who's making somewhere between $5,000 to $20,000 a month on Patreon alone, plus a few thousand a month more on Subscribestar. When reviewing the discussion on his games, Even the non incest fans have high praise, as he clearly puts a lot of effort into the story & overall quality of his projects. As such, he not only has a larger fanbase, but also a larger perentage of fans that have the disposable income to consistently throw at his games in higher level tiers. The thing is, aside from the incest kink in 2 of his 3 games, (which is basically nothing at this point), his games are fairly vanila kink wise
End of the day, No matter what kinks you pander to, (within reason, obviously), ultimately, if you write a good story with good, compelling characters & really put quality & genuine care & effort into it, that will pay off the most. Just keep in mind, it will take time, dedication & real genuine passion for what you're crafting. If you're going for a cash grab, just make sure that you focus on a specific demographic, just understand that with less effort comes less rewards.
Bit late to the conversation on this one, though I just now came upon this thread. I'm not gonna lie, that's a bit of a tough needle to thread. The reason being is because the first cornerstone principal that you have to account for is this. On here, just like in everyday real life, you have a mix of smart, mentally & emotionally stable & well balanced people that actually appreciate works of quality mixed with people that are exceedingly dumb, mentally & emotionally unstable & unfortunately are exceedingly entitled, narcissistic & clueless about anyone but themselves. Now, while this point won't have much direct bearing on the work itself, it is important to keep in mind regarding the reception of your game. Now, while in reality, the smarter, more stable people are to some extent the majority, with the less desirable folks being in the minority, (more or less), they are certainly more vocal as they typically lack the general intelligence, Emotional balance & social aptitude to, well... know better.
For example, just take a stroll through the confidently incorrect or not how girls work subreddits. Some classics that have been memed to death are the, (comically more than 1), guys that post "women don't actually enjoy sex, I know because I've been with plenty of women & none of them enjoyed it", lacking the basic common sense & self awareness to realize they just publicly said for all to see, "I can't get a woman off". Another great classic being, (again more than 1), guys posting that women can't piss because urine is stored in the balls, which they don't have". You get the point.
I should also clarify that when I say things like being smart, mentally & emotionally balanced & socially competen
t, at least in relevance to this area, What I mean are possessing the character traits of being sociable, self awareness, not being narcissistic / self absorbed, Being able to perceive & interact with others, (especially women), in a normal & healthy way.
Now the reason why this is important is because it's key in understanding the main draw of these types of media & the concentration of these 2 overarching groups of people in this community. See, we all know that the main purpose & appeal of adult VNs & porn in general is stuff to jack off to.
Most smart, well balanced & competent guys are typically better at obtaining & maintaining real relationships, as such, they are less interested in general in adult content, as they typically are for the most part getting their sexual & emotional needs fulfilled with their actual relationships, plus those relationships are where they invest most of their free time. Now, having said that, do some of them also enjoy adult entertainment like this? Sure. I'm one of them. I'm all for some good spicy content in a good story. Some have kinks that are great in theory, but not not so much in reality. However, we are in the minority.
So from there, let's look at the rest of the community. Now, I imagine that a large contingent of that remainder also consists of guys that are also smart & well adjusted, but due to things like social anxiety, low self image & lack of confidence, struggle significantly to get relationships & use media like this as a substitute for sexual stimuli. However, in that larger group, you also have tons of incels, Red / black pill / MGTOW idiots & others that fall solidly in the dumb, unstable & socially inept category. These last types are the ones that you typically see being most vocal & narrow about what they will & won't accept in games they they are getting for free & not really contributing in any substantial way to, (did I mention they were dumb)? Anyways, these people make up the majority of this community because, for obvious reasons, they have significantly less, (often zero), success in any kind of sexual relationships with real women, so this kind of media is what they utilize for their sexual gratification. Not pointing this out to make any judgement calls on anyone, just pointing out what we already know.
Now the reason for all this seemingly unrelated preamble is this. When it comes to the NTR fans vs NTR haters back & forth,
most people TRULY don't care. There's tons of people of the mind of "NTR isn't really my thing, but I mean if the rest of the game is good, I'll give it a shot. Especially if it's avoidable, or if the game has more to offer than just that." Likewise, there's tons of NTR fans that say "I like NTR, but if the game has other routes that are different, That's cool too". These are the usually silent, sane, rational bulk of those sub-communities. They are not the people you see in the back & forth comments. No, those are the unhinged, unstable & stupid ones that make up the bulk of the visible noise. The ones that you see going out of their way to either shit talk, or say they are passing on a game, just because it features some NTR comment, especially in cases where it's avoidable, you have to wonder, "Dude, you're THAT fragile that the avoidable risk that bad choices in the game might lead to a bit of NTR? IN A FUCKING GAME? REALLY?"
As for their pro-NTR counterparts, The are just as, if not more unhinged, almost cult-like. See, for them, Writing an interesting NTR themed story isn't "good enough", no no no, you as a creator need to NTR an NTRing NTR NTR NTR that is NTR NTR NTRNTRNTRNTRNTR CRAM IN MOAR NTR, [insert a jpeg of a soyjack twitching on the floor, foaming at the mouth while muttering "ntrntrntrntrntr"... What does that even mean, you might ask? Well, for these cretins, it MUST rigidly follow the same, fatalistic, paint by numbers formula. The happy, wholesome & over the top sappily in love couple in the beginning, bad guy antagonist comes in, starts seducing & manipulating the wife, she get's rapidly corrupted over a series of encounters, she becomes a heartless, mindless sex addict & either husband remains inexplicably oblivious or they reveal the affair to him & he's sad, cut the ending off without any actual real ending & all choices & branches in the game must all be different variations of that same, static trajetory with only the most trivial & meaningless of variation. Now, even if that's the shit that get's these guys dicks rock hard, for most people, it gets rather... well.... BORING. It's literally the 4u0340302403423434th rerun of the exact same story.
So one would think, to keep things interesting, maybe have some choices where the MC is able to turn the tables & win, or maybe after the "reveal", he snaps & goes on a revenge arc for some measure of pyrric victory, or maybe where the NTR ends could be the midpoint & the back half of the game is him rebuilding his life & moving on with someone better. Most rational people would look at that & say "Hey, that's pretty cool. There's something for everyone there. This is pure heresy for those specific NTR fans. Just like the nutjobs on the anti-NTR side that shreik that the mere presence of ANY NTR, even if it's completely avoidable, is intolerable, as though even a drop of it somehow taints & ruins it's pure aryan heritag.... er... I mean... Ruins the purity of their harem game... The NTR "purist" types are equally as psychotic with their insistance that a single drop of anything that's not purely in strict service of NTR in the game "ruins" it & therefore makes it no longer count as "legitimate" NTR. Not only that, but merely even saying "wait... That doesn't even make sense. What are you, insane?" To them, that's not legitimate criticism, additionally, they will take the actual content of your critique, throw all of it out the window, & then screech that you are an existential threat to lord god NTR, because you're "an NTR hater that is just hating on NTR & trying to take their precious NTR away from them". Even if you're actually a fan of the genre & your "transgression" was as innocuous as saying "wait, I don't get it, what's the big deal if there's ADDITIONAL content that appeals to others, as long as all the NTR content that otherwise would have been there anyway is still in?" Doesn't matter. You've committed a treasonous transgression against lord god NTR & must be shunned as the "anti-NTR apostate" that they believe that you are.
As should be crystal clear by this point, The vocal participants in the Pro vs anti NTR squabble are the lowest IQ, Lowest EQ, most unhinged & defective of the community. It should come as no surprise that the overlap in the ven diagram of those people & the incels & derranged psycho parts of the community is basically a perfect circle. As such, these are the people that are most demanding, but least deserving of anyone pandering to them. They are the Karens of the community & should be treated as such.
PREAMBLE OVER
So, I know that was a long bit of preamble, but stick with me. With all that preliminary context taken under consideration, the next thing that you need to ask yourself is "WHY am I making this game & WHOM am I pandering to?" If your goal is to make something creative that you can take pride in & really want it to be something GOOD, my advice is to not worry so much about pandering to specific kinks, but rather focus on crafting a really good, unique story with good, engaging characters. THAT should be your cornerstone. You can find ways to weave different kinks into it, especially if you're not afraid of making a story that REALLY branches in different directions. It may require more writing & such, sure. But quality takes time & effort. You could have a game that, depending on choices made, could go down a harem path on 1 route, a vanilla pure love on another, a swinging path on yet another & an NTR path on yet another. On the swinging & harem paths, you could even include option triggers that could expand the love interest options to include family, roping in the incest crowd too. The key is, story boarding out how those different routes might look, structuring the characters in a way that could lead them in those directions & then paving the way in a way that's logical, natural & makes sense. MOST of the people that actually appreciate quality will be more apt to appreciate this & will be more likely to support it. Even if it's not anchored to any specific kink, if the quality of the story, characters & craftsmanship is there, then it will be appreciated.
Now if your position is, "I don't really care all that much about the product itself, (as in you're not really personally invested into what it is), I just want to make whatever will maximize monetary profits & / or clout". Well this branches again. is the goal just clout & bragging rights? If so, is it clout for high quality? If so, refer to prior paragraph. If it's more number of fans, then just pick a kink, pander as much as possible to that crowd, & whle you may alienate some portions of the community, you will be damn near worshipped by the fans of that kink. Now, personally that's about as worthless, (IMHO), as bragging about your Reddit Karma score, but hey, that kind of shit is important to some people for some reason.
Now, if your goal is to make money, Here again, you have to kind of think ahead. I mean, a purely harem or purely NTR smut packed romp will certainly get you a LOT of built in, really excited fans, HOWEVER, these are the 2 kinks with the largest concentration of those defective type fans. (again, to be clear, I'm not saying ALL harem & NTR fans are defective, I'm talking about the specific types of fans that I referenced earlier that are the main contributers to the brain dead back & forth bickering). With that in mind, knowing that these people, as individuals, are so defective & socially incompetent that THIS is their substitution for their lack of any actual success with women, What do you suppose their success with upward mobility & ability to attain & maintain employment / income that allows them to have the disposable income to contribute via Patreon or what not, to supporting you? If we're being realistic here, the bulk of them likely don't have a lot of professional success or substantial income either. Also keeping in mind, these are the same folks that have the highest level of narcissism & entitlement & the lowest level of self awareness, these details combined means that the bulk of them will be the most opinionated & demanding that you pander to what they want, while putting absolutely ZERO coin in your pocket. Now, that said, let's say you pick the NTR genre, you'll get a decent sized chunk of fans that will be willing to consistently support you. I mean for example, HangoverCat is making a couple thousand bucks a month. However, using Mr Dots as an example again, who's making somewhere between $5,000 to $20,000 a month on Patreon alone, plus a few thousand a month more on Subscribestar. When reviewing the discussion on his games, Even the non incest fans have high praise, as he clearly puts a lot of effort into the story & overall quality of his projects. As such, he not only has a larger fanbase, but also a larger perentage of fans that have the disposable income to consistently throw at his games in higher level tiers. The thing is, aside from the incest kink in 2 of his 3 games, (which is basically nothing at this point), his games are fairly vanila kink wise
End of the day, No matter what kinks you pander to, (within reason, obviously), ultimately, if you write a good story with good, compelling characters & really put quality & genuine care & effort into it, that will pay off the most. Just keep in mind, it will take time, dedication & real genuine passion for what you're crafting. If you're going for a cash grab, just make sure that you focus on a specific demographic, just understand that with less effort comes less rewards.
- Jun 19, 2019
- 8,008
- 30,202
Cool story bro.
2/10 would not bang.
- Apr 14, 2018
- 580
- 791
You mean like the guy called Slappy Kinkaid, who went into a game that was clearly trying to do a classic NTR progression and started writing pages upon pages of malignantly narcissistic garbage about why the dev should add routes that he wants instead of doing what they originally planned? And when people started pointing out that the some games just want to be an NTR game with mostly NTR variation routes, he lost his shit and went all grtrader on the thread? And then he got thread banned and started a new thread bitching about how stupid the dev is and how shitty that game is? And all the while, his own game that he supposedly took over development of hasn't gone anywhere in 3 years. And for all his self praise, that game is as shallow as it is wide and not even close to the level of writing of something like Pale Carnations (an actual good game that doesn't get bogged down by tags or genre conventions).
- Jun 7, 2018
- 586
- 1,503
- Apr 14, 2018
- 580
- 791
Ah, take note OP, here is a prime example of one of those individuals that I was referring to. Observe as I address his rather... let's just say revisionist interpretation of history. Kinda odd that he felt the need insert himself in here, just so that he can try to re-start old disputes, meh, regardless
Incorrect. I played the game after being convinced by a friend, (whom was also active in that thread), to do so, as he insisted the story of the game was really good. After playing the, at that time, (which was what, close to 2 years ago?), the current release of the game. I played it, & found that there was a lot of structural issues with how it was written. The character continuity was completely broken & non-existent in many places, the plot pacing & direction was very forced in many areas, there were multiple plot points, hooks & elements that were completely nonsensical & went nowhere, like for example. The entire blackmail premise. The antagonist tricked the MC to give him a thumb drive with the contents of the project that their company was working on, then the antagonist used the threat of leaking it to competitors to blackmail the Love interest. However, that doesn't make any sense, since the antagonist was the on site representative of the client they were making the project for, him having access to the project data is not only normal, but expected, so he's supposed to have that data. Therefore if he leaked it, that would blow back on him, not on anyone within the company. Then additionally, when explaining why the time frame for the blackmail was 30 days, the antagonist said because due to some law, all source code for projects like theirs were required to become open source. Additionally, the entire project was on just a single flash drive & wasn't stored on a NAS or file server? REALLY? Again, that doesn't make sense because, why even bother with the project at all at that point? To invest all that time, money & resources to release it right as the requirement to put the GPL on it, where their competitors could just copy their work anyway & cut into any potential profits? None of this makes any sense & makes it clear that he was literally writing it on the fly & going with the first thing off the top of his head. Now, for those that just REALLY love "classic" NTR, as you call it, & just want something that they can mindlessly fap to, that's fine, (though, again, kinda begs the question of why they are using a VN which is story heavy & lighter on actual fap material than other options, but hey. Simple minded is gonna simple minded). However, for those that are more interested in the story, which, as can be plainly seen from the multiple posts of feedback left by multiple other people after I had moved on, was a LOT of people, things like that stick out like a sore thumb & wreck immersion, especially since it was clear that it was the product of laziness, apathy & cutting corners, (which the creator even admitted to himself on his Discord in saying he doesn't care about writing or the story at all). I even gave him easy fixes to problems like that. For example, get rid of the whole "everything has to go open source in a month" nonsense & instead, maybe add a policy where clients & external partners can have access limited access to updates, test builds & project snapshots, but no one outside the company can have access to the source code, as that is proprietary. That's like a 5 minute script fix that completely resolves that hole without affecting the content of the story in the slightest.
Now, when I went to the game thread to leave that perfectly respectable, constructive feedback, (as my initial comments to the dev were), first, I saw a reply to a guy essentially saying something like "I'd like to see a path where the MC catches them, snaps & goes on some dark revenge arc". That's a perfectly fine & acceptable comment to leave. In response, the guy responding was saying, (paraphrasing), "Dats not NTR, Y U even here if u don't like NTR. Go back to to playing harem games". Now this comment right here, in & of itself is a perfect microcosm of my criticism of the extreme NTR fanatics side of the pro vs anti NTR crowd. It's rude, very exclusionary, (as he basically said "You ain't one of us, go away"), & rather stupid, as anyone with any common sense can understand that different people can like NTR, as well as different things in NTR, for different reasons. Either that, or he didn't care & is just openly hostile & exclusionary to others that aren't one of y'all. Hell, you even did the same in your response here, trying to present your claim, like I was an unwelcome interloper that wasn't one of you, that intruded on your territory. Yeah... Boy, guess you really proved me wrong there huh? That's not insular & exclusionary at all.. riiight.
Anyway, so my first post there, was replying to that guy, more or less telling him that he's being rude & just because he might like to see a revenge arc doesn't mean he doesn't like NTR. Often times having that option can make some games better. Now anyone with any common sense would be able to see that the point was "hey, there's nothing wrong with the guy stating an opinion on something he'd like to see, don't be an asshole". But we're not dealing with people with common sense, We're dealing with zealotous NTR fanatics. So, instead of their take away being "Oh, yeah maybe I shouldn't be a dick to others just because they like different things", instead, they crawled out of the woodwork, taking this comment as some kind of attack on their beloved kink. After I replied to that guy, I posted my feedback on the game. Afterwards, it was actually the game dev & some of his fans, you included, that flipped your collective shit. See, what you conveniently forget, (or maybe just don't want to mention), is that I was far from the only one that had criticisms or feedback on the game. That same friend whom initially talked me into playing it in the first place, (whom was also a top tier paying patron of the creator, by the way), was actually the main one, (though not the only one, as there were at least 5 or 6 others), ardently arguing in favor of writing actual endings to the routes of the game, & in favor of other routes, arguing that if different choices don't lead to different outcomes, then the choices are completely meaningless, which he was correct on. & since he was one of the guys that was actually paying the dev, at the highest tier level, no less, he kind of has a right to make those kinds of requests. Granted, the dev doesn't have to fulfill those requests, but he certainly had more right to make those requests, as one of the ones paying the guy, than anyone else. Now Sure, I agreed with him because he was objectively correct. You NTR fanatics get the exact same content you would have gotten anyway, the clearly present & vocal other fans get the content they wanted, everyone wins. Plus, on average, games that actually do have more variance in routes DO in fact do better, however that was primarily their argument, not mine. Frankly, I didn't really care all that much what he did with his game. I simply responded with clear, easily demonstrable & objective facts, (guess that's what you're referring to as "malignant narcissism). Now, why was there so much back & forth, (The pages upon pages that you claim I posted... even though the majority of it was posted by other people, but whatever)? Well that's because they & occasionally I were simply responding to the nonsense that you all posted, just like I'm doing now. Now, to your credit, at least you were the more articulate out of the bunch, but let's be real here. The bulk of the replies we got was pure nonsense insisting that adding additional content that you could easily simply opt to ignore & avoid makes the NTR no longer legitimate NTR & basically impure. Well that & unhinged claims that we were all anti-NTR haters, that we were trying to force the dev to take the NTR out of the game, (which is completely asinine, as NO ONE did that), blah blah blah. The only thing I really said that he should do is apply himself more on his writing, so that it's not as glaringly low effort & inconsistent. But whatever.
No clue what the hell grtrader is supposed to be, but anyway, no one ever said that wanting an NTR game that's mostly NTR is somehow a bad thing. All I really said was that clearly, MANY NTR fans were bored of the same old story over & over again & wanted to see other things included to give it more variety, as could be very clearly seen by all the people saying as much in their own comments. YOU guys were the ones aggressively arguing that adding additional content disqualifies it as NTR, that everyone that didn't want what fit your narrow parameters for correct "classic" NTR weren't real NTR fans, therefore didn't count. I mean hell, you & another guy kept insisting on some titles of proper "classic" NTR games that included some of the things other were requesting & 2 separate guys gave you whole lists, one of which included a link to a whole website full of them. Of course, you all ignored those posts & continued to demand some titles, AFTER others had already provided them TWICE. So I guess your idea of me "losing my shit", is me & multiple others correcting you on grossly incorrect things you guys kept saying after you all actually lost your shit. Interesting.
That's a real interesting thing for you to claim, considering that I never started any such thread. Now sure, I did reply in an off topic thread that one of the dev's fans started, after one of the multiple times the game thread got nuked. I mean anyone reading this can literally pull up those threads right now & see what I'm talking about for themselves. You are aware that a lot of that is still publicly visible right? Guess posting in a thread that someone else started is the same thing as starting a thread in your mind. That's just fascinating. OOOO does that mean I started this thread too? Weird. Man, I've seen more rational nonsense in Qanon posts than some of the stuff you're saying right here.
Anyway, as for me being banned, yeah. A lot of people were banned. To date, that's the only thread I've ever been banned from. Kinda weird right? Yeah, that definitely doesn't make your corner of the community look insular, hostile & exclusionary at all. mmyeah..
Well anyway, I got a question for ya, I mean I know you have to cling to this whole nonsense of me being the lone bad guy in all of this, in order for your fabricated version of revisionist history to work, but let me ask you this. Why did the thread keep getting nuked multiple times after I left? Also, how do you explain the dozens of people that were saying the exact same thing we were saying long after I'd moved on from the thread?
The next update has been written for well over 2 years now, however I'm unable to do the 3d graphical work because I don't have the time. See, I have these weird things like a job, marriage, relationships, kids & family, & that takes up most of my time. I know, weird right? Back when I took the job over, I was still working as Senior support for Apple, so I had more time to dedicate to it, as I was working a regular 40 hour week. As of a year & a half ago, I'm now the Operations Manager of IT for the company I work for now. That's a much more demanding job & often leaves me with no free time. Once some projects at work reach a point where I have a little more time, I'll be hiring someone to do the graphical work, at which point the updates will be coming out again. All of this has been clearly stated numerous times with updates on what's going on on my game's thread. Weird how you forgot to add that part in huh? Gee, it's almost like you're trying to present things in a way that's not honest or reflective of reality in a sad, feeble attempt to try to take cheap shots at me.
If simply pointing out the fact that I'm a published author with over 13 years experience, for the purposes of displaying that I know what I'm talking about is, in your mind, "self praise", then I guess you can think that. Personally, I'd think self praise would be if I was bragging about how much of a great writer I think I am, or about my success at it & blah blah blah. Simply stating that I'm informed on the topic matter because I have professional experience in it isn't something I'd consider bragging.
Yet you don't seem to be able to expound on that or give any actual detail on what you mean. I mean, when I critiqued your beloved Hangovercat's game, I listed in detail specifically what the issues were, why they were an issue, gave specific examples & articulated why they don't work & even gave solutions to the problems.
& your critique of my game? "It's shallow & wide". Uh huh.... Oh yeah... Definitely legitimate & well articulated criticism. Definitely well made points. Certainly not a nebulous, empty attempt to throw insults by an unstable, salty NTR fanatic that stalked me here just to try to restart a nearly 2 years old dead argument. Noooo, certainly not THAT.
Now that I've addressed your.... ugh... yeah... Anyway. Let me ask you this. Why are you here? Why are you putting my name in your mouth? Are you obsessed with me or something? Dude. I moved on from you clowns nearly 2 years ago. Move on man. Let it go. I'm here in this thread to answer the question the OP asked & that's exactly what I did. I basically told him, in short, don't worry about the kinks, just focus on making a good, well written story with good, well rounded characters & make sure that the game is quality & shows real effort & passion went into it & you'll usually have the best odds for success. Otherwise, if it's just a quick cash grab, pick a niche, cater to that niche & you'll have some moderate success, & ignore the entitled, brain dead people that make demands, (not not to be confused with reasonable requests, or suggestions, or offering constructive feedback), especially from the extreme NTR fanatic & extreme anti-NTR crowds, as they tend to be the worst offenders of overly entitled, overly aggressive & overly idiotic bullshit, ALL of which is objectively true facts. None of what you posted here has anything to do with that, nor what the OP asked about. So again, why are you here, if not to stalk me so that you could revive an old fight that I've been done with for years? Because if your goal was to make ME look bad, I hate to tell ya, but it looks like it's backfiring on ya. All you've managed to do is make yourself look like an overly aggressive stalker that can't let shit go.
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I don't feel the same distain for pimping as i do NTR, i think most men are the same. NTR feels like you are being made into a beta loser that you are having something taken away from you that you are being used for money/status/labour and you are unwanted for sex, NTR also hits a little too close to home for a lot of people since a lot of people have been cheated on. that is my personal theory on why NTR garners so much rabid hate it is bringing back bad memories, pimping on the other hand? not many people have experience with that it is much more fantasy for most of us. and pimping puts you in a none degrading position, you are making the girl have sex with other men you are in control you are not being cheated on.
I admittedly had TOO much fun in monstergirl club bifrost turning my werewolf waifu into a nymphomaniac whore.
And the concept that she was so in love with me she would remain loyal no matter how many men i forced her to have sex with was oddly charming and romantic, it was a form of devotion and admiration i hadn't really seen anywhere else.
At the end of the day pimping and NTR are two different genres, i'm sure some NTR haters will call it NTR but there is nothing you can do can't please everyone. if you want to put an emphasis on your game not being NTR, i would reinforce through dialogue how the girls are devoted to you how they are just doing what you want how you are in control. you could even have them complain about it like "Fucking these other guys is sooo boring master... but i'll do anything for you"
Of course you have another option it is your best, but the best option involving work is always the most difficult. the best way to make the most people happy is to give them the most choice you can, make one route where you whore the girls out like normal, make another where you keep them for yourself and refuse to whore them, and make another where you loan out their contracts to a big black pimp who they fall in love with creating a full NTR route, make a route for me where you mindbreak them like Harley quinn and turn them into your own personal Yandere harem
more choices more better, games with 20+ endings are god tier in my book. and there is a reason witcher 3 was sooo critically acclaimed, the entire point of a "video game" is for you to have choice. if there is no choice it's just an electronic picture book.
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I don't feel the same distain for pimping as i do NTR, i think most men are the same. NTR feels like you are being made into a beta loser that you are having something taken away from you that you are being used for money/status/labour and you are unwanted for sex, NTR also hits a little too close to home for a lot of people since a lot of people have been cheated on. that is my personal theory on why NTR garners so much rabid hate it is bringing back bad memories, pimping on the other hand? not many people have experience with that it is much more fantasy for most of us. and pimping puts you in a none degrading position, you are making the girl have sex with other men you are in control you are not being cheated on.
I admittedly had TOO much fun in monstergirl club bifrost turning my werewolf waifu into a nymphomaniac whore.
View attachment 3671854
And the concept that she was so in love with me she would remain loyal no matter how many men i forced her to have sex with was oddly charming and romantic, it was a form of devotion and admiration i hadn't really seen anywhere else.
At the end of the day pimping and NTR are two different genres, i'm sure some NTR haters will call it NTR but there is nothing you can do can't please everyone. if you want to put an emphasis on your game not being NTR, i would reinforce through dialogue how the girls are devoted to you how they are just doing what you want how you are in control. you could even have them complain about it like "Fucking these other guys is sooo boring master... but i'll do anything for you"
Of course you have another option it is your best, but the best option involving work is always the most difficult. the best way to make the most people happy is to give them the most choice you can, make one route where you whore the girls out like normal, make another where you keep them for yourself and refuse to whore them, and make another where you loan out their contracts to a big black pimp who they fall in love with creating a full NTR route, make a route for me where you mindbreak them like Harley quinn and turn them into your own personal Yandere harem
I'm not a cuck... I'm a pimp... yeah sure...
Imagine falling for that one...
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The man with the 3 story wall of text and the trashy bimbo daz render PFP, but i'm always down to necro threads.
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I'm expressing my feelings and theories on the fetish, you may take it or leave it. i have no reason to prove myself to you.View attachment 3671915
I'm not a cuck... I'm a pimp... yeah sure...
Imagine falling for that one...
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I'm not judging you... I just think it's funny you called some used up slut "so in love with you, charming and romantic"...
Nothing more wholesome than a used up prostitute...
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I did say "oddly" charming and romantic. the game also paints that picture, there are playboy characters that will give your girls the "NTR" status if they don't have the "love" status.I'm not judging you... I just think it's funny you called some used up slut "so in love with you, charming and romantic"...
Nothing more wholesome than a used up prostitute...
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You do you... I find nothing "oddly" charming and romantic about whoring out girls... :shrug:
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Well i am a great enjoyer of extreme devotion and obsession, fucked up love, that sort of thing. so if you are not it makes sense you wouldn't see it the same way.
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Who says it's your three women using, or working, in any of these places like strip clubs or whorehouses? Or that you're pimping them out.
I don't have to do either of those thing and they can still exist in the world. I can use them for my own pleasure and my three girls would be okay with it. (Or not but I am a haram MC so tough shit for them.)
Incidentally I got excited to see this in first page for discussion (for the drama) but realized it was a necro'd thread so somebody could write a fucking essay. I didn't read it.
I don't have to do either of those thing and they can still exist in the world. I can use them for my own pleasure and my three girls would be okay with it. (Or not but I am a haram MC so tough shit for them.)
Incidentally I got excited to see this in first page for discussion (for the drama) but realized it was a necro'd thread so somebody could write a fucking essay. I didn't read it.