Harem Character Study: Is it safe to assume most Harem lovers would dislike Holli from the 1992 movie Cool World? (Screenshot)

[zilkin]

My opinion is, harem games are fine, I played a couple of them but they are not very realistic. Holly is actually a realistic character, she is a Hollywood prostitute kind of girl. She will trade her "goods" and "services" for money, fame and just having a good time occasionally, this is why she is a local celebrity in that bar.
She is not very subservient to the MC, or if she is you know she is kind of faking it. She is too real for the average harem enjoyer, she is too much of a woman and frankly, she is damaged goods.
She can be a character in a harem kind of game, but if you really believe she will be faithful to you, then you are just another sucka. Holly takes care of the number one, and number one is her.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Third, not sure how what they wear, where they hang out or if they like or dislike police have to do with being in a harem?

Because you are too young. But personally, I automatically reverted to the pre-mid 90's mentality when reading his list, and globally everything made sense.

So, let me do the translation for you:

1. She smokes and drinks.
   She's a cool rebel, but still you'll clearly feel that she's out of your league ;
   You must be registered to see the links
   style.
2. She loves to dance for men.
   She's a free spirit, not afraid of her body while totally acknowledging of its power and using it without hesitation ;
   You must be registered to see the links
   style.
3. She hangs around night clubs a lot.
   No one can dictate her behavior, and she don't care about what others will think about her.
4. She dislikes police.
   She's isn't one of those boring conservative bourgeois.
5. She wears provocative clothing.
   She's a slut.
6. She uses terminology like, "hey baby".
   In your couple, she's the one wearing the pants.
7. She has a lot of guy friends.
   She's a whore.
8. There's a scene in the movie where she's in a bar, and she's so happy there's tons of guys in the bar.
   She's in charge of her sexuality. It's her who decide who she'll have sex with, not the opposite.
9. Her behavior attracts the attention of lots of men.
   Soon or later she'll NTR you.
10. She wants to become a real human so badly [...]
    Do not apply.
11. She has the kind of personality and attitude that some guys will find off putting.
    She isn't a woman to marry.

 

[HarveyD]

Because you are too young. But personally, I automatically reverted to the pre-mid 90's mentality when reading his list, and globally everything made sense.

So, let me do the translation for you:

1. She smokes and drinks.
   She's a cool rebel, but still you'll clearly feel that she's out of your league ;
   You must be registered to see the links
   style.
2. She loves to dance for men.
   She's a free spirit, not afraid of her body while totally acknowledging of its power and using it without hesitation ;
   You must be registered to see the links
   style.
3. She hangs around night clubs a lot.
   No one can dictate her behavior, and she don't care about what others will think about her.
4. She dislikes police.
   She's isn't one of those boring conservative bourgeois.
5. She wears provocative clothing.
   She's a slut.
6. She uses terminology like, "hey baby".
   In your couple, she's the one wearing the pants.
7. She has a lot of guy friends.
   She's a whore.
8. There's a scene in the movie where she's in a bar, and she's so happy there's tons of guys in the bar.
   She's in charge of her sexuality. It's her who decide who she'll have sex with, not the opposite.
9. Her behavior attracts the attention of lots of men.
   Soon or later she'll NTR you.
10. She wants to become a real human so badly [...]
    Do not apply.
11. She has the kind of personality and attitude that some guys will find off putting.
    She isn't a woman to marry.

morphnet

Exactly this. It's about what a certain type of person thinks of a woman who does these things.

And the reason they matter in the "Do you want her in a Harem game?" question is that some people will see a character like this as just a whore. Possibly even "used goods" if it's been eluded to that she has already had sex. That's why Hakarlman keeps bring up sharing.

 

[morphnet]

Because you are too young. But personally, I automatically reverted to the pre-mid 90's mentality when reading his list, and globally everything made sense.

Not really though, I think it's more where the mind went. You went western and I went eastern, mainly because I honestly can't think of any harem movies / cartoons / comics, I have seen from the west, I have seen a ton of movie / anime / manga / light novels from the east about them.

So, let me do the translation for you:

1. She smokes and drinks.
   She's a cool rebel, but still you'll clearly feel that she's out of your league ;
   You must be registered to see the links
   style.
2. She loves to dance for men.
   She's a free spirit, not afraid of her body while totally acknowledging of its power and using it without hesitation ;
   You must be registered to see the links
   style.
3. She hangs around night clubs a lot.
   No one can dictate her behavior, and she don't care about what others will think about her.
4. She dislikes police.
   She's isn't one of those boring conservative bourgeois.
5. She wears provocative clothing.
   She's a slut.
6. She uses terminology like, "hey baby".
   In your couple, she's the one wearing the pants.
7. She has a lot of guy friends.
   She's a whore.
8. There's a scene in the movie where she's in a bar, and she's so happy there's tons of guys in the bar.
   She's in charge of her sexuality. It's her who decide who she'll have sex with, not the opposite.
9. Her behavior attracts the attention of lots of men.
   Soon or later she'll NTR you.
10. She wants to become a real human so badly [...]
    Do not apply.
11. She has the kind of personality and attitude that some guys will find off putting.
    She isn't a woman to marry.

I understand where you are coming from but what he listed are not personality traits but rather behavior because of personality traits. If someone has a calm, level headed personality you might associate studying with them, studying is not a personality trait, the same goes with the smoking, smoking is not a personality trait, wild or adventurous is.

If you don't mind i'll make a few changes to your translation and answer the points at the same time as these were worded / hinting at / indirectly implying that they could somehow lead to the MC not being the only guy.

1. She smokes and drinks.
   She's cool and wild, but still you'll clearly feel that she's out of your league ; I think
   You must be registered to see the links
   fits better here or
   You must be registered to see the links
   these two along with maybe
   You must be registered to see the links
   seem to fit most of the list.
   In this sense the school president, school Idol, popular athlete etc. are also seen as out of the MC's league because each "type" of girl/women is meant to have their own challenges in capturing their heart and adding them to the harem.
   The Smart girl, out of MC's league because his grades are low.
   The Athletic girl, out of MC's league because he is part of the "going home club" and is not fit.
   The Idol girl, out of MC's league because he is a regular guy and not as popular as she is.
   The School President, out of MC's league because he is not as popular or has good grades.
   The Otaku girl, out of MC's league because is doesn't know enough about manga and anime.
   etc. etc. etc.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
2. She loves to dance for men.
   She's a free spirit, not afraid of her body while totally acknowledging of its power and using it without hesitation ;
   You must be registered to see the links
   style. Good reference but I'm going to be a bit cliché here and add
   You must be registered to see the links
   here
   It doesn't matter if it's just for men or for lots of people or if it is dancing or a
   You must be registered to see the links
   none of those directly or indirectly imply that she sleeps around.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
3. She hangs around night clubs a lot.
   No one can dictate her behavior, and she don't care about what others will think about her.
   So she is independent and fun loving, since when did going to a night club equal going home with or having sex with a guy or many guys?
   I've also played enough harem games to be more worried about the girl/woman going for "coffee/cake" after school or for a drink with co-workers after work than a girl / woman going to a nightclub.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
4. She dislikes police.
   If it's not because of illegal activities, I'd picture someone like Rosalind Russel here in
   You must be registered to see the links
   here. Standing up to authority with a brave personality. Also how disliking police equals sleeping with men is something I can't figure out.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No, definitely not.
   
   
5. She wears provocative clothing.
   "She's a slut." I disagree here, "slut" is behavior as in sleeps around, not to mention younger generations often dress more provocatively i.e. the appearance of the
   You must be registered to see the links
   . None of this means they fall under the term slut.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
6. She uses terminology like, "hey baby".
   In your couple, she's the one wearing the pants.
   I don't really see how a girl saying "hey baby", "hey darling", "hey sweetie" makes her the one to wear the pants in the relationship. If that is the case then the same can be said for the big sister type or motherly type girl who always bosses the MC around. Also flirting with guys and sleeping with guys are two very different things.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
7. She has a lot of guy friends.
   She's a whore.
   I 100% disagree here!!! Just because she has a lot of guy friends in NO WAY implies she is sleeping with one / some / or all of them and calling her a whore when there is NO sign she is not just a tomboy type for example that prefers boys company is a BIG stretch.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
8. There's a scene in the movie where she's in a bar, and she's so happy there's tons of guys in the bar.
   She's in charge of her sexuality. It's her who decide who she'll have sex with, not the opposite.
   While the other points above have been written in a way to LOAD them with negative connotations, this one just seem to be the same as the one above. As for her "deciding" who she will sleep with, isn't that the point of a harem game / story? to get her to choose the MC and "decide" for herself that she wants to sleep with the MC? (unless there is corruption in the game)
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
9. Her behavior attracts the attention of lots of men.
   Soon or later she'll NTR you.
   None of the points above or below have ended with "and she fucked them" all they have shown is the woman in question likes attention and is not shy about who she is or shy about her body, a very healthy attitude to have. Just because she attracts the attention of men does not mean she will sleep with any or all of them.
   
   (on a side note, many harem stories / games make it a point to show the MC and the BEAUTIFUL LI walking down the street and all the heads that get turned because she is so beautiful and how proud the MC is that she chose him / is with him.)
   
   None of what has been described has painted the woman in question as a weak willed, easily influenced or stupid woman, in fact it's just the opposite, so the chances of her turning down all those men because she knows what she wants / who she wants is greater than her going all weak kneed and jumping on the first dick that compliments her.
   Does this exclude her as a harem character? No.
   
   
10. She wants to become a real human so badly [...]
    Do not apply.
    Agreed, does not apply
    Does this exclude her as a harem character? No it doesn't apply.
    
    
11. She has the kind of personality and attitude that some guys will find off putting.
    She isn't a woman to marry.
    Only to guys who want / think every woman in a harem game / story should be a mindless virgin who sits in one spot waiting for the MC to find her and make her "a woman"
    
    All these points just show a strong, wild, adventurous woman who is comfortable with herself and knows what she wants. They do have some cross over in "types" that you usually find in harem games but none of them would exclude her from a harem game. Just because each point was worded enough to imply negative connotations but stopped short of, does not mean that any of them leads to her having sex with other men or that she crossed any line at any point.

 

[morphnet]

morphnet

Exactly this. It's about what a certain type of person thinks of a woman who does these things.

Then he should just come straight out and ask that, there is NO one type of person that plays, reads, watches harem games / stories etc.

And the reason they matter in the "Do you want her in a Harem game?" question is that some people will see a character like this as just a whore. Possibly even "used goods" if it's been eluded to that she has already had sex. That's why Hakarlman keeps bring up sharing.

None of those points / questions "eluded" to the character being a "whore" or "used goods".

To put it simply, if you have EVER played harem games in the past can you honestly say any of these equals sleeps with other men?

She smokes and drinks = sleeps with men?
She loves to dance for men = sleeps with men?
She hangs around night clubs a lot = sleeps with men?
She dislikes police = sleeps with men?
She wears provocative clothing = sleeps with men?
She uses terminology like, "hey baby" = sleeps with men?
She has a lot of guy friends = sleeps with men?
There's a scene in the movie where she's in a bar, and she's so happy there's tons of guys in the bar = sleeps with men?
Her behavior attracts the attention of lots of men = sleeps with men?
She has the kind of personality and attitude that some guys will find off putting = sleeps with men?

He clearly wrote it in a way to try LEAD people into thinking that she MIGHT sleep with others BUT and it's a big BUT his question was if a character that acted like this, showed these behavior's would be a good fit.

So in context, without having seen this thread and read the obviously leading questions, would a harem player playing a harem game and seeing a provocatively dress woman, drinking and smoking in a nightclub, would they go up to her and try add her to their harem? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes (depending on the model used of course).

After talking to her they find out she likes dancing for men to see, she does like the police??? (player might think she's abit weird) and she says the to barman "hey baby how about another round" does the player change their mind? I'm pretty sure they don't.

They talk some more and she tell the player she mainly has guy friends in collage and she has always stood out with the guys since high school. Then she says she's going to dance abit and she loves having all the guys looking at her.

She finishes and tells the MC she's going home... the player gets the option to invite her on a date or go home themselves.
I'm pretty sure most would invite her on a date.

If you ignore the obviously leading way OP phrased everything and actually applied those points to a harem game, I'm pretty sure most players would NOT see her as a "whore" or "used goods" and would try add a character like that to their harem.

Now is there a chance some player might see her as a "whore" or "used goods" yes
Is there a chance some players will say a game is NOT a harem game if every girl/woman is not a virgin or if there are widows or divorced women in it? yes
But
That was NOT the question, the question was: is it safe to assume MOST harem lovers, NOT some or a few.....

 

[Cosy Creator]

I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying, but I feel like you're all ignoring this part:

"Hey! Why don't you like me? ALL GUYS LOVE ME, but you're different mister, why don't you like me? That's not fair! Listen, I can change bay bee, but this life is all I know! Give me a chance, will ya?"

To me, when combining this desperation for male attention with the list of behavioural traits in the OP, this is not indicative of a confident well-adjusted woman that just likes to have fun. This is a red flag the size of a mountain. It screams to me that she's actually not confident at all, and she is in fact desperately seeking validation from random guys in a nightclub.

 

[HarveyD]

And the reason they matter in the "Do you want her in a Harem game?" question is that some people will see a character like this as just a whore. Possibly even "used goods" if it's been eluded to that she has already had sex. That's why Hakarlman keeps bringing up sharing.

Now is there a chance some player might see her as a "whore" or "used goods" yes

You really didn't have to type all that nonsense out. I'm just explaining why Hakarlman is asking this question. I'm not saying any of the things he mentioned mean something about a woman, just that he likely thinks they do. That's why when people say they're fine with it he has to ask if they're into sharing. He's saying "But a woman like this sleeps around, do you want sloppy seconds?"

 

[morphnet]

You really didn't have to type all that nonsense out. I'm just explaining why Hakarlman is asking this question.

I understood his question, which is why I pointed out the holes in it in my first reply. Just because he is aiming for something doesn't mean we have to go along with it.

I'm not saying any of the things he mentioned mean something about a woman, just that he likely thinks they do. That's why when people say they're fine with it he has to ask if they're into sharing. He's saying "But a woman like this sleeps around, do you want sloppy seconds?"

That's right, that is exactly what he was implying so I don't see any problem in correcting him in both the way he asked the question or the points he put forward. They were both wrong.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I understand where you are coming from but what he listed are not personality traits but rather behavior because of personality traits.

I agree that the words describe a behavior, but in the same time those behaviors are all the cliché for a personality trait. It's why you need to switch to a given period mentality in order to understand them like they are intended.

Nowadays, a woman who smoke would picture a low class redneck girl living in a trailer camp.
Back in the 70's/80's/90's, it pictured a cool and wild woman.
And before the 60's, no decent woman would have dared to smoke. Therefore she would be ostracized because totally unfit.

It's why I did the translation. Not to say what the character is, but to explain what OP meant when pointing to this or that behavior. They all are the cliché of this time, and all used in the movie to visually describe her personality. A personality that is globally as my translation described it.
Holli is a wild rebel, she don't care about convention, nor about how a woman should act. She's a free spirit that don't fear sex and is ready to use it in order to achieve her goals. There's more of her, but it's how she's pictured when the movie starts, and what OP list tried to point.

If you want, you can think about Jessica Rabbit and her famous, "I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way".
Red dress, opened high on the thigh, tighter at waist side to emphasis her curves. Add to this the way she move her hips when walking, as well as few other details, and you've a cliché for the femme fatale. She's drawn, and therefore depicted in first intent, as a woman who would eat you alive.
But like toons are alive, and so have a personality, she need to say explicitly that the cliché used to drawn her do not match her personality. She isn't at all what she looks like.
The difference being that Jessica Rabbit follow a more timeless cliché, therefore nowadays viewers would still kind of get it. This while Holli follow cliché that are clearly dated and mean nothing for someone who haven't lived through the right period, and/or who wouldn't fall back to the mentality of this time when reading her description.

And it's where you have it wrong with your annotations. They refer to nowadays views, and therefore do not carry the meaning intended by OP.
It's not that you are wrong when saying, by example, that having a lot of guy friends do not make her a whore. Just that you read it with your mentality, not with the mentality of someone living in the 80's ; and the "living" is not a typo, you need to go back to the mentality of this time, not just to have lived at this time.
And it happen that in the 80's, a woman who would hang out with a lot of guys, and near to no girls, would have been called "whore" by 8 out of 10 people, both men and women.

Of course, none of this disqualify Holli to be a Harem character, but this I already said it.

 

[zilkin]

You guys should really watch her scenes in the movie, it's on youtube.... iti s obvious she is a Hollywood escort, even her name is a play on words "Holly Would", Holly would what? (Hugh Mungus WHAT???)

And you know how those producers are with casting couch, a good looking woman like that in Hollywood with moves like those... she is definitely in some shady business.

Now is that a problem for the average harem enjoyer? I think it would be a bit hypocritical considering you have a literal harem of women to question her morality but yeah, she defo has tons of sex and probably does it for money (or to get a job as an actress).

 

[morphnet]

And it's where you have it wrong with your annotations. They refer to nowadays views, and therefore do not carry the meaning intended by OP.
It's not that you are wrong when saying, by example, that having a lot of guy friends do not make her a whore. Just that you read it with your mentality, not with the mentality of someone living in the 80's ; and the "living" is not a typo, you need to go back to the mentality of this time, not just to have lived at this time.
And it happen that in the 80's, a woman who would hang out with a lot of guys, and near to no girls, would have been called "whore" by 8 out of 10 people, both men and women.

Of course, none of this disqualify Holli to be a Harem character, but this I already said it.

I do understand where you are coming from but OP posed the question to most harem lovers, not people who lived in a time period or "lived" in a time period. I should also point out that the notions you mention were not share around the world or in many cultures at that time, I know they weren't in mine for example. So the number of people that fit that criteria compared to the number that fall outside that time range certainly do not make up most of the harem lovers in the world.

Also if people who didn't know who he was talking about search for her and not just relied on the YT links they would have found other info on her....

You must be registered to see the links

"Holli has constantly brought other men into Cool World, yet none have ever consummated a relationship with her."

So going only off the actual character in the movie, the only person it's ever hinted at that she sex with was Deebs who she ends up with.
So a small group might agree with OP and agree with the implied mentality but given that the question was for most harem lovers the answer is still no.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I do understand where you are coming from but OP posed the question to most harem lovers, not people who lived in a time period or "lived" in a time period.

And as you implied yourself, the question is unfit to the situation ; why should this disqualify her as character in a Harem story ?. So, is it this surprising that the way it asked it is also partly unfit to the public ?

So going only off the actual character in the movie, the only person it's ever hinted at that she sex with was Deebs who she ends up with.

It's what I implied when saying that my description correspond to how she's depicted when the movie starts, but that there's more of her behind this.
She have a dream, being human, what is only possible if she have sex with a human. Therefore, and globally speaking, she built herself a slut-like personality, something that would attract male in need of sex. But it's a built personality and she systematically hit the wall, what make her go further on the slutty side in hope that it will works. And it's more or less where we find her when the movie stars. She became an easy girl, but she don't have sex because she want to be loved, while her behavior only attract males who want to have sex.

So a small group might agree with OP [...]

Hmm... I haven't seen someone agreeing with him. But to be honest, Chalksis Stella took me by surprise, so I can have missed a post or two.

 

[hakarlman]

And as you implied yourself, the question is unfit to the situation ; why should this disqualify her as character in a Harem story ?. So, is it this surprising that the way it asked it is also partly unfit to the public ?




It's what I implied when saying that my description correspond to how she's depicted when the movie starts, but that there's more of her behind this.
She have a dream, being human, what is only possible if she have sex with a human. Therefore, and globally speaking, she built herself a slut-like personality, something that would attract male in need of sex. But it's a built personality and she systematically hit the wall, what make her go further on the slutty side in hope that it will works. And it's more or less where we find her when the movie stars. She became an easy girl, but she don't have sex because she want to be loved, while her behavior only attract males who want to have sex.




Hmm... I haven't seen someone agreeing with him. But to be honest, Chalksis Stella took me by surprise, so I can have missed a post or two.

Guys, I'm not sure if you've seen this movie, but let me give you some more context you might not have:

Here is Holli, after she's turned from a cartoon into a human:


As you can see, she is doing some heavy flirting with another guy she is singing with. The guy she's flirting with is not her boyfriend, and deebs gets a little jealous saying "HEY, she's with me!", but then he gets kicked out. So her boyfriend gets kicked out, and she stays inside because the guys all want her, although she doesn't cheat on deebs and she herself gets kicked out of the club too.

Still, the problem is that she's flirty and she likes to flirt with other guys. Are you telling me Harem guys are okay with their love interests flirting with other guys? i"m gonna assume NO it's not, unless of course you give her permission.

So anyways guys, long story short. I'm just trying to figure out if you guys like characters like Holli.

What about Vala Malderan? She is somewhat similar to Holli; keyword somewhat, she has a lot of differences too, but she also uses sexual appeal to get what she wants.


Did you guys watch Stargate SG1? Remember the relationship between Daniel & Vala? Vala is a very flirty woman, are you Harem lovers okay with that? Did you like the dynamics between Vala & Daniel, or is there another relationship dynamic you like better? Feel free to give examples from popular shows & movies.

 

[morphnet]

Still, the problem is that she's flirty and she likes to flirt with other guys. Are you telling me Harem guys are okay with their love interests flirting with other guys? i"m gonna assume NO it's not, unless of course you give her permission.

You keep being vague and tip toeing around things, so to make it simple...
Are you talking about holli in the movie or holli as she WOULD show up in a harem game?
Are you asking these question IN the harem game setting or just about these characters in general?
Are you asking some / most / all harem lovers or just those that share your point of view?
Are you talking about a harem / romance game or a Harem / Corruption game or a Harem / slave game etc. etc.

Right now your questions are too vague and your examples are too one sided.

 

[tanstaafl]

The requirement of being the only focal point for a group of women is the fantasy for the people who are into it and that's perfectly fine for a game. Some games have upwards of 10 or even 15 girls that are all slavishly devoted to the MC and the only way to make it interesting is to go deeper and deeper into fetish play, sometimes to the point of being ludicrous. At this point even the more extreme fetish play becomes boring.

Still, the problem is that she's flirty and she likes to flirt with other guys. Are you telling me Harem guys are okay with their love interests flirting with other guys? i"m gonna assume NO it's not, unless of course you give her permission.

Two things.

1. Don't assume. You'll always have a bad time if you do, especially on these forums. Don't underestimate the ability of people here to shit all over your assumptions.
2. What if a harem LI has a job that hinges on flirting with people for money? Bartender, waitress, singer, dancer, etc. Are you the kind of insecure kid that would require a career change to make your fragile little ego more secure?

 

[zilkin]

I think players who would like her in a harem game are netorare enjoyers. If you don't like netorare, you probably won't like a character like her since her personality is based around flirting with other guys to get what she wants.

(And lets not be naïve, she doesn't stop at flirting. If you think she does then "wake up to reality")

 

[redknight00]

Looks like you're just trying to confirm your bias by making up a scenario and portraying a girl in the most negative way to prove that "harem fans" don't like slutty girls.

 

[Jaike]

I'm going to raise 3 questions that maybe look a bit random but they're going to end in a common thread.

The first question is what do you mean when you say "harem lover" or people who "love harem"? Some people who posted here read that as "harem fan", others said they "like harem" or that "harem games are fine", "BUT...". There's like a serious difference between those readings, but even what a "harem fan", or "harem lover" or "harem liker, BUT" means isn't clear. Are you looking for people who only play harem games? That's gonna be a small group. People who strongly prefer harem games? People who like harem games as one of many genres they play, but don't really prefer them? People who're fine with harem games but generally prefer something else? People who like some harem games despite they have harems, because they dislike harems? People who don't really like harems but sometimes may like it as a gimmick in a genre they do like? It's not helped by that the harem genre is generic, the harem tag is even more generic. Only few people object to harem games in general, and even less of them do that consistently.

The second question is what kind of answers do you get here. General discussions has an audience that's very different from the typical posters in game threads. And of course most users never post or only post a little, some people who never post here are potential supporters too. Anyway, general discussion posters often like content that's not very popular. One example, though it's about poll voters instead of posters, is that polls here suggest that female protagonists are way more popular than their actual support by almost any method. They probably wouldn't mind Holli Would like responses here show.

The third question is who should you target. Your polls are in general discussions usually so that's the audience you get. But recently you also targeted what's left of djkunn's circle, who strongly prefer harem games, are more likely to self-insert, care more about aspects of LIs's personality (this can mean they dislike unrealistic tropes but realism alone is never the main concern) and their sexual history, and prefer virgin LIs more than the general discussion posters. They likely fall in the group of "people who strongly prefer harem games" though you can wonder how typical they are for that group, anyway they certainly don't like Holli. If you target them because of the game you said you're going to make, and you still want to make a game with a harem and avoidable netorare instead of something you might enjoy more: most of them don't play games with avoidable netorare and they don't like you and prolly like you less now. If it's only for feedback, it's still an issue for you that they don't like you and don't want to answer you. Now my suggestion is to look for a different group as the target audience for the harem element of your game. At least people who'll want to play it. Maybe the crowd in general discussions works for that, but remember they're a very untypical crowd. Or maybe look for other "harem lovers", in whatever definition works for you, who'll at least consider playing a game with avoidable netorare. If whoever that last group is going to be will like Holli is anyone's guess.

 

[hakarlman]

.......................................
The third question is who should you target. Your polls are in general discussions usually so that's the audience you get. But recently you also targeted what's left of djkunn's circle, who strongly prefer harem games, are more likely to self-insert, care more about aspects of LIs's personality (this can mean they dislike unrealistic tropes but realism alone is never the main concern) and their sexual history, and prefer virgin LIs more than the general discussion posters. They likely fall in the group of "people who strongly prefer harem games" though you can wonder how typical they are for that group, anyway they certainly don't like Holli. If you target them because of the game you said you're going to make, and you still want to make a game with a harem and avoidable netorare instead of something you might enjoy more: most of them don't play games with avoidable netorare and they don't like you and prolly like you less now. If it's only for feedback, it's still an issue for you that they don't like you and don't want to answer you. Now my suggestion is to look for a different group as the target audience for the harem element of your game. At least people who'll want to play it. Maybe the crowd in general discussions works for that, but remember they're a very untypical crowd. Or maybe look for other "harem lovers", in whatever definition works for you, who'll at least consider playing a game with avoidable netorare. If whoever that last group is going to be will like Holli is anyone's guess.

Crap I wish I had more time to respond meticulously to each sentence and question you asked, but I can't, maybe one day in discord? I'll still respond though. Long story short, you're on the same path and mindset as me, so is Anne Anon, in fact he provided some very valuable info. Everything you just typed clicks in my head. So you mention categories, let's break it down to the core.

Categories
a) Harem Lover: Hates Sharing/NTR; this stems from poorly designed games that ended up forcing Sharing/NTR on the player when they clearly didn't want it, so their hatred and frustration is understandable, especially when the problem happens over and over again; hence why I feel 99% of porn games are shit. If you go into DJKunn's discord Harem server, and use the search in the top right, HOLY SHIT, there is a gold mine of information in there on making a very good Harem game that caters to Harem lovers who hate sharing/NTR. I agree with you that DJKunn's discord community fits into this category. Can you go into their discord and ask them what they think of Holli or Vala Maldoran from stargate sg1?
- Chalksis Stella (If I'm wrong about this category placement, don't get upset and just tell me, I'll fix it).

b) Harem Lover: Not interested in Sharing/NTR but doesn't hate it either.
- Cosy Creator (If I'm wrong about this category placement, don't get upset and just tell me, I'll fix it). The most important thing to do note here is that he did give a girl like Holli a chance at one point in his life. I've been in that situation too, so I understand the reluctance of taking a chance with Holli, but that's where good writing comes in like Anne Anon said.

c) Harem Lover: Okay with SHaring/NTR'ish kind of stuff sometimes. At this point, I can safely put myself into this category.
- anne O'nymous (If I'm wrong about this category placement, don't get upset and just tell me, I'll fix it).
- hakarlman (To clarify, I FUCKING LOVE SHARING AND NTR, for simplicity, I'll put myself in this category.)

I think (B) & (C) are easily my target audience. (B) and (C) sound very similar to everyone who responded in this thread, except Chalksis. Like you said Djkunn's community would probably HATE Holli. Can you go into their discord and ask them what they think of Holli?

Here's why I want to cater to DJKunn's Harem community, because they really know and understand their genre, they know PRECISELY what they want. They've created and polished their ideas.

LONG STORY SHORT, A LOT OF YOU GUYS CONVINCED ME YOUR MY TARGET AUDIENCE. YOU LOVE HAREM, AND YOU'RE EITHER OKAY WITH SHARING OR IT'S JUST NOT YOUR CUP OF TEA, but you can still appreciate characters like Vala Maldoran & Holli from Cool world.

I'm probably not going to try and cater to the Harem Lover - NTR Hater; category (A), because I'm going to be severely limited with what kind of love interests I can make. Like you said, your gut instinct told you that DJKunn's community would probably hate HOLLI, but is there anyway you can go into DJKunn's discord and just ask them what they think of Holli?

Maybe we can get JoeTheMC84 to write another in depth article that delves deep into the types of characters Harem Lovers like him want, and by Harem Lovers, category (A), the ones who just truly despise and abhor Sharing & NTR, which can lead them to disliking characters like Holli. Their hatred of NTR/Sharing has really refined what they want, it's led to them knowing precisely what they want, and you give them what they want, you might earn their patreon support.

 

[Chalker]

a) Harem Lover: Hates Sharing/NTR; this stems from poorly designed games that ended up forcing Sharing/NTR on the player when they clearly didn't want it, so their hatred and frustration is understandable, especially when the problem happens over and over again;

I'd say that's not fully right.
1) If I like something I usually want to know everything about it, so I don't like games where I know that's not even an option
2) Usually it paints the character or forces them to act unfaithfully even outside that route, as in if you do not prevent it that is a part of their character, souring that character for me in general.