Harem Character Study: Is it safe to assume most Harem lovers would dislike Holli from the 1992 movie Cool World? (Screenshot)

[hakarlman]

EDIT: MORE RESPONSES PLEASE, LET"S KEEP IT GOING. *HUGS*. If it turns out a lot of Harem lovers are okay with Holli's personality, that would be cool as hell!

(NOTE: If you don't want to read a lot, just skim and address the yellow text.)

QUESTION: You love Harem, and you meet Holli in game, what would you do? If you know nothing about Holli, I've provided a description of her below:

Character: Holli
Movie: Cool World (1992)

Club Dancing:

You must be registered to see the links

Being Sweet / Driving:

You must be registered to see the links

Movie Torrent:

You must be registered to see the links

(If this is not allowed, my apologies, let me know I'll remove this part.)

PERSONALITY / BEHAVIORS:
1. She smokes and drinks.
2. She loves to dance for men.
3. She hangs around night clubs a lot.
4. She dislikes police.
5. She wears provocative clothing.
6. She uses terminology like, "hey baby".
7. She has a lot of guy friends.
8. There's a scene in the movie where she's in a bar, and she's so happy there's tons of guys in the bar.
9. Her behavior attracts the attention of lots of men.
10. She wants to become a real human so badly, she'll do anything. Note: In order for cartoons to become human in the cool world universe, they have to have sex with a human.
11. She has the kind of personality and attitude that some guys will find off putting.
12. ................. Feel free to add more descriptions of her personality ..................... I'm definitely not an expert on this movie or its characters.

BONUS FOR READING THIS FAR: The most important part of all this, is this: If you like Holli and love Harem, but don't like her personality, what if you could change her personality in a deep and meaningful way? Imagine Holli sees everything you write when responding to this thread, and she tells you: "Hey! Why don't you like me? ALL GUYS LOVE ME, but you're different mister, why don't you like me? That's not fair! Listen, I can change bay bee, but this life is all I know! Give me a chance, will ya?" and bats her eyes at you? YOU'D GIVE HER A CHANCE, RIGHT?

Another note: Maybe Harem lovers DO LOVE HOLLI, and I was just flat out wrong about assuming a lot of Harem lovers might not like her?

EDIT: I restored this post, I just got another response that was helpful. I added the word behavior next to personality per morphnet's recommendation.

 

[Cosy Creator]

"Hey! Why don't you like me? ALL GUYS LOVE ME, but you're different mister, why don't you like me? That's not fair! Listen, I can change bay bee, but this life is all I know! Give me a chance, will ya?" and bats her eyes at you? YOU'D GIVE HER A CHANCE, RIGHT?

Nope. Personally the idea of fixing a pain in the arse narcissist is more of a nightmare than a fantasy for me (one that I've lived, unfortunately). Besides, given your description it sounds like her interest in me is based entirely on the fact that she can't stand the idea of even a single man not being infatuated with her. So I imagine the moment you actually fall for a woman like this her interest will immediately wane because the excitement and challenge is gone.

Of course, in the world of a fantasy harem this character could be made to work, that's the beauty of fiction, but she would have to do a pretty solid 180 on her personality pretty quick for me to take her seriously as a main LI.

 

[anne O'nymous]

QUESTION: You love Harem, and you meet Holli in game, what would you do?

Fuck her ?

what if you could change her personality in a deep and meaningful way

Why would I want to change her personality ?

At worse she'll have difficulties to fit with the other, but who care ? Anyway, she'll be craving for my dick like all the other, and temperate her personality because it this because sucking me will be more important for her than staying herself.

Maybe Harem lovers DO LOVE HOLLI, and I was just flat out wrong about assuming a lot of Harem lovers might not like her?

It's not where you are wrong.

You are wrong when you assume that "harem lovers" mean something. It's not like "Christians", "Slavic", "elders", or whatever community-like you can think about. "Harem lovers" aren't bound by their belief, culture, generation, or whatever you can think about. Their sole common point is their liking for Harem games.
And it's really astounding that, after all those years asking "Harem lovers" what they think about this or that, you still haven't figured that.

 

[hakarlman]

Nope. Personally the idea of fixing a pain in the arse narcissist is more of a nightmare than a fantasy for me (one that I've lived, unfortunately). Besides, given your description it sounds like her interest in me is based entirely on the fact that she can't stand the idea of even a single man not being infatuated with her. So I imagine the moment you actually fall for a woman like this her interest will immediately wane because the excitement and challenge is gone.

You helped me a lot thank you.

 

[hakarlman]

Fuck her? Why would I want to change her personality ?

So you love Harem games, but you have no problems with Holli whatsoever? This is good news, but also confusing. Before I explain why it's confusing, let me ask you something: Just to confirm, you love Harem and hate Sharing, right? If you love Harem and hate sharing, but like Holli, that is VERY confusing to me. Am I wrong to think it's confusing? Have you read her personality profile?

(EDIT: I asked a lot of open ended questions, I'm fishing. Does it make me look ignorant? See the [ spoiler] below.)

You are wrong when you assume that "harem lovers" mean something. It's not like "Christians", "Slavic", "elders", or whatever community-like you can think about. "Harem lovers" aren't bound by their belief, culture, generation, or whatever you can think about. Their sole common point is their liking for Harem games.

Agreed.

And it's really astounding that, after all those years asking "Harem lovers" what they think about this or that, you still haven't figured that.

If you must know, I'll tell you:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[anne O'nymous]

So you love Harem games, but you have no problems with Holli whatsoever?

Character's personalities exist whatever the genre. Of course, some personalities will fit more with one genre than another, or at the opposite will tend to be unfit for a given genre. But it's not something that a good writer can't deal with. An unfit personality can even do good for a Harem story, but creating a bit of tension and presenting a challenge. It's by example the case with My New Memories, where one of MC's sisters act as internal antagonist by being madly in love with MC, but strictly jealous and totally unable to share him.

But anyway all this is totally independent to player taste, that will make him like, or dislike a character due to its personality, this whatever the genre you put this character in.

Before I explain why it's confusing, let me ask you something: Just to confirm, you love Harem and hate Sharing, right?

I love Harem, and have absolutely nothing against Sharing. I even enjoy some good written Sharing stories.
Don't let NTR haters fool you, it's not Harem against the rest of the world. It would be a strange mix, and probably not a success, but strictly speaking you can perfectly have Harem and NTR in the same story. It only need a strong antagonist, and in 3, 2, 1, fight... Will you succeed in building your harem and giving enough attention to all the girls for them to not fall for your nemesis ?
As for Sharing, since the girls tend to play together, technically most Harem games have it. Of course, it's generally intended as "sharing with another male", but even this isn't clearly incompatible with Harem. Deliverance, among others, have a Swinging route, and it involve the most important girl since it's MC's wife. And in the same time, while not being strictly speaking a Harem game, the wife agree with her husband having a lot of sex with other girls.
In a Harem, the girls agree to share you, it's only insecurity that make players refuse to also share them.

Am I wrong to think it's confusing?

Yes you are. All those years doing polls, and you still don't understand the basis. As I said above, the characters personality do not define the genre they can appear in. Those are different notions, and thinking otherwise will lead you nowhere.

Have you read her personality profile?

She's a strong and manipulative woman, voluntarily written to be at the exact opposite of Jessica Rabbit.
This because Cool World was an attempt to benefit from Who Framed Roger Rabbit success, with, in the same time, the firm intent to make a dark movies for adults, where the first one was clearly on the "hey, smile, and put those glasses, you'll see the world in pink".
But as I said, this have nothing to do with the game/story genre.

I literally have a word document open detailing what Harem lovers are into.

Seriously ?
You agreed when I said that Harem lovers "sole common point is their liking for Harem games", and right after you say that you have a document listing what they are into...
Don't you understand that the two are strictly opposed and totally incompatible ?

A lot of it comes from JoeTheMC84; he made one great and helpful post, even you, and others.

So, you've a document listing what one Harem lover is into, and what few other persons, that are possibly, or not, interested by Harem games/stories, think, plus a the result of a full collection of relatively meaningless polls.
Meanwhile, I was playing games, reading game threads, looking how creators handle their stories, what combination was working, what combination needed skills to works, and what players thought about it when they had all freedom to talk their heart out.
Guess who have the most useful knowledge...

But that's not the case with understanding Harem lovers,

That's not what your polls are showing. Nor what this particular post is saying.

but I do make a lot of posts seeking confirmation of what I think Harem lovers would like, [...]

You don't need a lot of posts for this. Anyone can give you the answer, they like Harem games...

Look at Harem games... There's at least one for any kind of liking.
You want romantic harems ? There's games for this. You prefer to use blackmail to build your harem ? There's games for this. You want to brainwash girls in order for them to enter your harem ? Guess what, there's games for this. You prefer that girls have a feeling of freedom, and can goes in and out of your harem ? Yes, there's also game for this.
Hell, even if it's often not shown on screen, there's even harem games that let you decide if the girls can or not fool around with other guys.

I like so many kinks that oppose Harem,

There's only one kink that oppose to Harem, and it's faithfulness.
As I said, some would be more difficult to implement in your story, but it's a question of writing skills, not an effective incompatibility.

On a side note, your feedback is conflicting with all my data, [...]

Because, as many said to you more than once, your data are useless. Stop seeking for information, it will lead you nowhere. You past the last four years searching for something that don't exist, an universal Harem lovers taste.

 

[Chalker]

man, and here I thought my cum eating poll was the dumbest question this week...

 

[Chalker]

Also, I'll be terser than the average anne O'nymous essay post because I believe brevity is key.

Going to f95 and asking "what do harem fans like?" is like going into a book convention and asking "what do fantasy readers like?". You are going to get a lot of answers, (probably most of them convoluted and contradicting) and you could take all that data and make it into that book... and guess what? most likely it's shit because you tried to 'appeal' to such a broad thing without any of your own flavor or passion.

If you're going to make ice cream and combine every favourite flavour of every person you asked... you'll have shitty ice cream.

 

[Rafster]

Meh, Jessica Rabbit was WAY better (for those too young to know, google "Who framed Roger Rabbit" and do yourselves a favor and watch the movie), but I'm not an harem lover, I don't even understand how I would like that, so whatever.

 

[hakarlman]

man, and here I thought my cum eating poll was the dumbest question this week...

If you believe my question is dumb, then what's the obvious answer? Carefully explain why the question is flawed. Dismantle my logic.

Going to f95 and asking "what do harem fans like?"

That wasn't my question bro, lol.

Anyways, let's check out your cum eating poll. I'm surprised I haven't seen it yet. Cum eating is an important topic. EDIT: Oh wait, I did see this thread, someone even brought me up in it, ahahahhahah. Okay, I'm going to respond in it. This will be fun..

 

[Chalker]

If you believe my question is dumb, then what's the obvious answer? Carefully explain why the question is flawed. Dismantle my logic.

the old guy already did it for me.
I just made it sweet and short.

 

[hakarlman]

Character's personalities exist whatever the genre. Of course, some personalities will fit more with one genre than another, or at the opposite will tend to be unfit for a given genre. But it's not something that a good writer can't deal with. An unfit personality can even do good for a Harem story, but creating a bit of tension and presenting a challenge. It's by example the case with My New Memories, where one of MC's sisters act as internal antagonist by being madly in love with MC, but strictly jealous and totally unable to share him.

But anyway all this is totally independent to player taste, that will make him like, or dislike a character due to its personality, this whatever the genre you put this character in.




I love Harem, and have absolutely nothing against Sharing. I even enjoy some good written Sharing stories.
Don't let NTR haters fool you, it's not Harem against the rest of the world. It would be a strange mix, and probably not a success, but strictly speaking you can perfectly have Harem and NTR in the same story. It only need a strong antagonist, and in 3, 2, 1, fight... Will you succeed in building your harem and giving enough attention to all the girls for them to not fall for your nemesis ?
As for Sharing, since the girls tend to play together, technically most Harem games have it. Of course, it's generally intended as "sharing with another male", but even this isn't clearly incompatible with Harem. Deliverance, among others, have a Swinging route, and it involve the most important girl since it's MC's wife. And in the same time, while not being strictly speaking a Harem game, the wife agree with her husband having a lot of sex with other girls.
In a Harem, the girls agree to share you, it's only insecurity that make players refuse to also share them.




Yes you are. All those years doing polls, and you still don't understand the basis. As I said above, the characters personality do not define the genre they can appear in. Those are different notions, and thinking otherwise will lead you nowhere.




She's a strong and manipulative woman, voluntarily written to be at the exact opposite of Jessica Rabbit.
This because Cool World was an attempt to benefit from Who Framed Roger Rabbit success, with, in the same time, the firm intent to make a dark movies for adults, where the first one was clearly on the "hey, smile, and put those glasses, you'll see the world in pink".
But as I said, this have nothing to do with the game/story genre.




Seriously ?
You agreed when I said that Harem lovers "sole common point is their liking for Harem games", and right after you say that you have a document listing what they are into...
Don't you understand that the two are strictly opposed and totally incompatible ?




So, you've a document listing what one Harem lover is into, and what few other persons, that are possibly, or not, interested by Harem games/stories, think, plus a the result of a full collection of relatively meaningless polls.
Meanwhile, I was playing games, reading game threads, looking how creators handle their stories, what combination was working, what combination needed skills to works, and what players thought about it when they had all freedom to talk their heart out.
Guess who have the most useful knowledge...




That's not what your polls are showing. Nor what this particular post is saying.




You don't need a lot of posts for this. Anyone can give you the answer, they like Harem games...

Look at Harem games... There's at least one for any kind of liking.
You want romantic harems ? There's games for this. You prefer to use blackmail to build your harem ? There's games for this. You want to brainwash girls in order for them to enter your harem ? Guess what, there's games for this. You prefer that girls have a feeling of freedom, and can goes in and out of your harem ? Yes, there's also game for this.
Hell, even if it's often not shown on screen, there's even harem games that let you decide if the girls can or not fool around with other guys.





There's only one kink that oppose to Harem, and it's faithfulness.
As I said, some would be more difficult to implement in your story, but it's a question of writing skills, not an effective incompatibility.




Because, as many said to you more than once, your data are useless. Stop seeking for information, it will lead you nowhere. You past the last four years searching for something that don't exist, an universal Harem lovers taste.

Originally, I had written a long detailed response to you. A lot of it was me sharing my methodology and my ideas, but then I realized I can't share this info yet. But I will say this, words can't describe how much you just helped me. Thank you.

The way I setup my posts, I'm looking for specific predicted answers. You basically listed 8/10 of the answers I was looking for, holy shit, it's like you read my mind or something with 75% of the stuff you said.

If you're making a game, it's gonna be a damn good game, I can't wait to try it.

EDIT: In regards to my polls, if you value your own opinion, you often share your opinions in my polls, so my polls are not 100% worthless, unless you think your own opinion is worthless?

 

[hakarlman]

the old guy already did it for me.
I just made it sweet and short.

Are you talking about Cozy Creator or anne O'nymous? EDIT: If you're talking about Anne, and you agree with Anne, that's great, perfect actually.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP. I DID NOT EXPECT THAT LEVEL OF HELP FROM ANNE & COZY.

 

[morphnet]

(NOTE: If you don't want to read a lot, just skim and address the yellow text.)

QUESTION: You love Harem, and you meet Holli in game, what would you do? If you know nothing about Holli, I've provided a description of her below:

Character: Holli
Movie: Cool World (1992)
Club Dancing:

You must be registered to see the links

Being Sweet / Driving:

You must be registered to see the links

Movie Torrent:

You must be registered to see the links

(If this is not allowed, my apologies, let me know I'll remove this part.)

PERSONALITY
1. She smokes and drinks.
2. She loves to dance for men.
3. She hangs around night clubs a lot.
4. She dislikes police.
5. She wears provocative clothing.
6. She uses terminology like, "hey baby".
7. She has a lot of guy friends.
8. There's a scene in the movie where she's in a bar, and she's so happy there's tons of guys in the bar.
9. Her behavior attracts the attention of lots of men.
10. She wants to become a real human so badly, she'll do anything. Note: In order for cartoons to become human in the cool world universe, they have to have sex with a human.
11. She has the kind of personality and attitude that some guys will find off putting.
12. ................. Feel free to add more descriptions of her personality ..................... I'm definitely not an expert on this movie or its characters.

BONUS FOR READING THIS FAR: The most important part of all this, is this: If you like Holli and love Harem, but don't like her personality, what if you could change her personality in a deep and meaningful way? Imagine Holli sees everything you write when responding to this thread, and she tells you: "Hey! Why don't you like me? ALL GUYS LOVE ME, but you're different mister, why don't you like me? That's not fair! Listen, I can change bay bee, but this life is all I know! Give me a chance, will ya?" and bats her eyes at you? YOU'D GIVE HER A CHANCE, RIGHT?

Another note: Maybe Harem lovers DO LOVE HOLLI, and I was just flat out wrong about assuming a lot of Harem lovers might not like her?

First, what you described are not personality traits but behaviors and action based on personality traits. Having the character stop smoking doesn't make her any less wild or adventurous etc.

Second, many harem stories have characters that have the attention of both sexes and even sometimes their own fan clubs none of which influences the characters progression into the harem.

Third, not sure how what they wear, where they hang out or if they like or dislike police have to do with being in a harem?

Not really sure how any of what you have written here would exclude her from a harem or harem game or why you would assume that "most" harem lovers would dislike her?

The list you put up covers, gyaru's, delinquent girls, idols, athletic girls, etc. all of which of commonly found in harems stories / harem games. So it really wouldn't make any sense for her not to fit in a harem.

Also you won't hear from "most" harem lovers, only a small number of members active in the forums so either way you won't really get an answer to your question.

 

[hakarlman]

First, what you described are not personality traits but behaviors and action based on personality traits. Having the character stop smoking doesn't make her any less wild or adventurous etc.

Second, many harem stories have characters that have the attention of both sexes and even sometimes their own fan clubs none of which influences the characters progression into the harem.

Third, not sure how what they wear, where they hang out or if they like or dislike police have to do with being in a harem?

Not really sure how any of what you have written here would exclude her from a harem or harem game or why you would assume that "most" harem lovers would dislike her?

The list you put up covers, gyaru's, delinquent girls, idols, athletic girls, etc. all of which of commonly found in harems stories / harem games. So it really wouldn't make any sense for her not to fit in a harem.

Also you won't hear from "most" harem lovers, only a small number of members active in the forums so either way you won't really get an answer to your question.

Just curious, do you hate sharing or like sharing?

do you like NTR or hate it, or just think nothing of it, not care?

edit: aah shit, your post makes me want to get more responses now. Hmmm.

 

[tanstaafl]

I like harem games, but don't want obedient little puppies as LIs, they're boring. In fact, I consider most people that aren't happy with anything but obedient "good girls" to be the cucks of the future. They're in for a rude awakening when they meet a real girl in person for the first time.

 

[morphnet]

Just curious, do you hate sharing or like sharing?

do you like NTR or hate it, or just think nothing of it, not care?

Personally I don't really care outside of netorare, the only one I enjoyed there is scars of summer. Otherwise for sharing / stealing away from someone else, it depends on the game / clip and the art, the same for harem games / clips / anime.

It also depends on the my mood, sometimes I want the MC to end up with all of the girls/women and sometimes the MC ends up with a girl/woman I personally think is wrong for them or not the girl/woman I felt deserved to be with him instead of the main LI. The last one happens more in hentai clips and anime than in games.
Other times I'm just happy the LI is happy and if the MC's gets to sleep with others girls then it's only fair that the LI get's to as well.
So if I'm in a "I want them all" mood I play harem games, if I'm in a romantic mood I play dating sims and if I'm just relaxed and happy I played the rest.

 

[Hagatagar]

The way I setup my posts, I'm looking for specific predicted answers.

You must be registered to see the links

...

 

[hakarlman]

You must be registered to see the links

...

But I'm not biased in my beliefs to the point I won't change my mind. So yes, I'm looking for specific answers, but I'm not close minded to unpredicted answers, because I might learn something new.

"... ignoring contrary information ..."

I wouldn't do that. If the information is factual, I'd swallow my pride, like the post, learn something new and move on.

 

[anne O'nymous]

EDIT: In regards to my polls, if you value your own opinion, you often share your opinions in my polls, so my polls are not 100% worthless, unless you think your own opinion is worthless?

I'm not insecure to the point to not value my own opinion, but neither am I idiot to the point to believe that my opinion is important ; at least here. I have an opinion, based on what I saw and thought about it, but on subjects as versatile as "what people thinks/likes", it's just a personal opinion and its range is limited to the number of people who will (more or less) agree with it.

What I say can make people question their own thought, but will never make them question their own certitude.