VN Ren'Py Dual Family [v1.22.1ce] [Gumdrop Games]

[CLDꝜ]

this game thread hasnt been used for the game since 10 months ago the only people who do uses this for the game are new players

thats probably the only reason why i think this thread should be closed

Well, I don't disagree with you. I've been ignoring it for months, as this probably the most toxic thread in this whole community. My insomnia got the better of me tonight, and I ended up reading a 2-3 of the last pages in this thread just in case there was any news.. Not that I expected any news ^^

I have no idea why the mods have decided to keep this thread open, but I'm sure they have a reason for it, and this is not something we as users decide anyways, so we might as well unwatch the thread until we see a new version in "Latest Updates". That's what I'm planning on doing again at least.

I loved this game back when it was early in its development, and I was even a patron for a few months. Then the story got too dark and depressive for me, then the updates stopped coming, so I stopped supporting the dev. I do value my hard earned money, so I won't support a developer that can't/won't prove that he's actually working for the money people donate to him.

I wish you all good luck in continuing this discussion. Just remember that we haven't been cavemen for thousands of years, so no need to act like it. Have a good night <3

 

[Pestilence]

Theres nothing wrong with having a set standard of expectation for what you believe is worthy of your support the other people are just saying that just because someone has failed to live up to your standard doesn't mean its a betrayal or morally dubious thing. Also i think a more agreeable practice to people like you who really want to ensure that theyre getting value for their contribution just wait until after a game is complete if you like it treat your donation like a purchase. Acting lessons recently finished if you liked that game consider donating 5 or 10 dollars thats a fair price for an independent visual novel, Or keep pirating and chastising people who don't value hard earned dollars.

This presupposes the idea that there isn't in fact a standard when there clearly is. We aren't making this up as we go after all. The content creator not only creates, but promises to adhere to a certain standard so that they may gain your trust and as a reward your continued patronage. Without it, there's simply distrust and confusion which isn't marketable in any practical way.

 

[LazyName]

Sure if you consider $1 financially supporting. Also I have stated before the patrons are at fault just the same because they allow him to postpone the release indefinitely by subsidizing his incompetent behavior. Remove the funds and watch how quickly things change. No one is absolving them from any blame, merely pointing out that it falls on those on the receiving end to do the right thing, not their subordinates.

That is by definition a financial support. They are supporting his behavior and the pace at which he works and theyre even susidizing his missed deadlines the thing is its my belief that if theyre comfortable with all of that then there was no moral wrong committed by any party. I'll say this its totally ok to think kyle is incompetent and to criticize him for his work/lack there of. I just think its silly to try and also turn this into a moral issue as well.

 

[LazyName]

This presupposes the idea that there ins't in fact a standard when there clearly is. We aren't making this up as we go after-all. The content creator not only creates, but promises to adhere to a certain standard so that they may gain your trust and as a reward your continued patronage. Without it, there's simply distrust and confusion which isn't marketable in any practical way.

Some patreon creators promise updates on a set time schedule some promise bonuses like being able to make a new character or having their names featured in the credits. What they decide to put forward as incentives to donate in addition to the work they already plan on producing is all varied and its up to patrons to decide what is worth and what isn't. Kyle promises dev updates, pin up shots, and early access to his releases from there its up to patrons if they want to give him their money.

 

[Pestilence]

That is by definition a financial support. They are supporting his behavior and the pace at which he works and theyre even susidizing his missed deadlines the thing is its my belief that if theyre comfortable with all of that then there was no moral wrong committed by any party. I'll say this its totally ok to think kyle is incompetent and to criticize him for his work/lack there of. I just think its silly to try and also turn this into a moral issue as well.

I wont argue nuances about the single dollar, "its silly". However I will ask why isn't morality important when its specifically why I'm addressing him as a POS? You're attempting to argue with my statement whilst simultaneously dismissing the very foundation on which its predicated. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So either you accept that its my opinion and move on. Or you don't and question what actual moral issue I'm referring too rather then attempting a sleight of hand in dismissing it entirely.

 

[MissSonicBoom]

Is it not strange how someone here can talk of ethics and morality, whist pirating.

 

[Pestilence]

Is it not strange how someone here can talk of ethics and morality, whist pirating.

I don't understand how you can equate a discussion on a forum (pirate or not) to pirating. You just assume everyone is here to pirate as a mere projection of what you are here to do. Can you point me to any other notable forum that gives as much insight into adult games then this one? I'd really love to hear it because frankly I'm unaware of them tbh as I only stumbled here looking for mods and also legally own over 500 titles bought and paid for so the idea that you know anything about what I'm doing here "is silly". Also you just made your stance on pirating very obvious, it doesn't mean I hold the same opinion as you.

 

[LazyName]

I wont argue nuances about the single dollar, "its silly". However I will ask why isn't morality important when its specifically why I'm addressing him as a POS? You're attempting to argue with my statement whilst simultaneously dismissing the very foundation on which its predicated. You can't have your cake and eat it too. So either you accept that its my opinion and move on. Or you don't and question what actual moral issue I'm referring too rather then attempting a sleight of hand in dismissing it entirely.

To be totally clear i'll say what i think youre saying and if its wrong you can correct me. You think its immoral for him to accept money from patrons because hes taking advantage of them. My response is that the patrons know full well who kyle is and how he conducts himself. If the patrons have this knowledge and continue to support him then they arent being taken advantage of. Theyre fans of his game and are perfectly capable of stopping and continuing their donations as they see fit. Other criticisms like him being incompetent and the like don't need to be tied to whether or not hes performing grave injustices of morality. Plus you're totally welcome to consider someone a PoS for being lazy.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Is it not strange how someone here can talk of ethics and morality, whist pirating.

People pirate for different reasons. You not necessary a person of bad morale or ethics just because you pirate. Back in the day I used to copy a lot and when internet became a thing, download. This was more done due to lack of financial means, rather than just want to have everything for free. Also its not your strongest argument on a site such as this.

I see this as a site to find new stuff. If I end up see something I like or get interested in, I might support the creator a couple months to tip the jar, but I have no real desire to keep support month after month. I rather spread it out on different creators.

 

[Joshua Tree]

In both your analogies the people being taken advantage of are clearly disadvantaged either through a childhood of grooming by an authority figure or by the deception their government. However i can acknowledge that the people who donated in the month of january operating under the idea that the release date was promised were pretty fucked. While it was in their power to not be fucked i.e. waiting until after january 25th to decide whether or not to contribute I dont think its fair to blame them for kyles shortcomings. I think setting deadlines and missing them is by far the most dubious thing kyle does but to that end patrons have every right to end their donation and never look back. Again just because people are unhappy and critical of Gumdrop doesnt mean its a matter of ethics or morality. Each of us can decide on our own if we think kyle is good enough at his work to support and even argue about it and disagree e.g. this threads discussion. He can be held accountable and judged as an ineffective creator the consequences of which would be potential patrons being scared off and his current patrons moving on. You might try to argue that he still makes too much money on patreon but thats not for you to decide. My problem is when we take that a step further and start trying pass judgement on whether kyle is a bad person.

In the xmas release he did touch about not meeting the 25th deadline though and he understod if people removed their support. It's not like he been selling it right up to the 25th. If people support after that, its due to free will.

In regard of setting deadlines and breaking them, that is nothing new or unheard of in the gaming industry as whole though. Heck you have even games get ingame cash shops and pay 2 win aspects after they been released and had a beta/demo period. Just because some does it, doesn't make it okay though.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Certainly not a death sentence, I never read any post suggesting anything of the sort. However there is a case to be made about holding individuals accountable, otherwise one can objectively expect to see many more Gumdrops in the future. If we remove personal responsibility and the consequences of our actions out of the equation, things tend go downhill from there. His patrons are propagating this effect ad nauseam. It really doesn't take a genius to figure this out.

I agree; You should be held accountable if you keep fail deliver over and over. But as long as it's not a crime, nor anything we really can do about. Apart from vote with your money and stop support creators that fault at this. It's like politicians that keep fail on deliver, they will have a hard time get re-elected again. His consequence of failing to deliver is obtaining a shoddy reputation and lose support.

But there is still those that will keep support him and believe in him no matter what anyone say or do, until they decide for themselves.

There is a lot of creators that should been held accountable for failure to deliver in this regard though. There is those that keep start new projects over and over and abandon what they were working on. So you wouldn't necessary know what you support from one day to the next. With the whole "oversight" and rules from Patreon on what you could and could not do, there is those that rolled over, and what you supported turned out to be something else. Should we call these for sell outs? Isn't they doing it just for the money in that regard then? Wouldn't that make a lot of them scam artists?

We can only hold all of them accountable buy stop support them. But there will be those that will keep support them regardless what we say or do. Name calling and verbal abuse, doesn't make one difference what so ever except add to the toxic pool.

 

[sr.]

Missing deadlines is not unethical ...it's laziness

Laziness which leads to breaking of promises, made to the people supporting (the lazy person) ....is ethical??

 

[Sam]

There was a clue in v0.1...

 

[satoshi36]

So still no ABANDONED tag or even better this thread should be closed or deleted so this lazy ass dev dosen't get any more exposure...

 

[KeyvinCarter]

This isn't an adult game, it's a psychological experiment to see how retarded some people can be.

 

[Deleted member 805449]

This isn't an adult game, it's a psychological experiment to see how retarded some people can be.

I'd say it's a pretty successful experiment since even here are who people who still support the developer with their money for reasons other than morbid curiosity.

 

[batman666]

How are people still supporting this dev? Why?

He isn't to be blamed, tbh. He's making thousands of dollars per month even though he practically abandoned the project.

I bet some people have spent enough money on this dev's patreon page to buy all the DAZ models themselves and remake the game.

 

[whippetmaster]

Money talks, bullshit walks.
In this case, the bullshit is gleefully skipping to the bank with your money.

 

[ju1zzed]

Meanwhile at Gumdrop HQ.

 

[ilikemomsonincest]

so any reason you guys are still replying back to that fan you should really just put him on ignore

I forgot we could do that, thanks for the reminder fam