Kryptozoid

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2016
1,189
2,390
You made valid points and I can agree with most of them. What I don't agree with is having the never ending story. ALL things must end. That's just the facts of life. DMD was a lengthy story, just like Grandma's House currently. The fact is, many stories start out as either short stories or novellas but as time goes on, the writer/creator begins to add more things to make the story complete. Many times it's due to the creator's imagination. There's usually that speculation factor that's the cause, (what if he/she does this? What would happen?) and so on.
Then, in the case of these "games" (not all of the things posted in f95 qualifies but I addressed that before in another thread), you look to your fans/audience to give you inspiration. Some work out, others don't. Either way, you push on based on the results. The danger of stretching out the story is twofold. 1) Inevitably, the creator/author runs out of ideas and gets bored. They have new ideas, for new stories and they begin working on it before finishing the original. That happens all of the time, it's called "writer's burnout". It doesn't mean that you didn't like what you put out, it's just time to move on to something fresh. It's like sleeping on linen. It feels comfortable but, eventually, you have to change them.
The second danger, and it's more applicable here, is that, you get stuck on where you're going (called "writer's block"). You listen to the critics, start following their ideas, then you go forward. Now, along the way, the story drifts from your original concept. For those who depend on subscribers, when that happens, you start losing support. You try to bring them back by listening to the whiners, "add this/that, don't add this/that". Pretty soon, you're trying to appease everybody and the story starts getting out of control.

Tom Clancy wrote a number of mega novels that were between 700-1300 pages. He beautifully wove a number of them, based on One character, to tell a grand story which, basically covered the character's career. The problem was that, while doing so, he branched off to tell whole stories about support characters that fans loved. That would have been okay, had he wrapped up the main character's story but he did it while telling ancillary stories. He had to add elements to the secondary stories to make them relevant to the original. Pretty soon, those stories began to suffer as they quickly ran into dead ends. Meanwhile, the original story that started the whole shebang, was nowhere near where it started.
I firmly believe that, if you're going to have a story, you need to have a definitive end. Writing instructors advise 1st timers to have an outline. You put down what you want to tell; the elements in which to tell a story, your pro/antagonist(s), your conflict(s), and an ending. That way it can't get away from you and you don't have to depend on outside sources to finish it. I'm writing a story online currently that's been several years in the making. I constantly have to self edit to make sure that it stays coherent and the scenes are relevant to one another. It AIN'T easy!

The other point that I disagree with is telling two versions of the same thing. For reasons explained above, it's not very feasible, Especially when you have to spend so much time rendering. That's how stories Quickly get away from the main concepts, with both versions winding up being poorly executed. The Best idea is to do the story how you envision it, then Tell it that way. You can use an Occasional suggestion if you think it will help, but if you stick with your script, you can tell your story with satisfaction. You'll ALWAYS have your naysayers and bitchers, that's the way it goes. Humans, especially entitled ones, will always have a gripe. Humanity can't survive without them. The best thing to do is to tell a story the way You want. Please yourself First. If you do it right, mass fans will follow, just like Clancy. If you do it wrong, you try to learn from your mistakes for the next time but the bottom line is do it for your own satisfaction first. Ultimately, it Is Your story to tell.
I couldn't agree more about "make the story for you first, and if you enjoy it, some of the audience (but maybe not as many as you wish) will enjoy it too". That's how it should always be. Unfortunately, as I said, at some point the team paid too much attention to what some of their sub says, meanwhile ignoring the silent majority who was probably ok with the game's direction since they didn't express any concern. Not everyone is "weirdos" like us who care enough about a minor and disregarded genre of subculture that they feel they have to write lengthy posts about it. Most of Dots customers will just just shut the fuck up and enjoy, or just stop paying if they don't. And somehow, even if I don't have the actual stats, I feel that the team forgot that silent majority's voice. It's like if a mainstream religion or political group started listening only to the extremist fringe in their groups. Of course these people will shout louder than the others, they're extremists, therefore they care a lot more about their beliefs. Doesn't mean the other 90% of moderate people suddenly disappear or agree with the extremes. They just like the creator's vision and will support him.

But unfortunately, a creator can do this (writing and rendering 100% according to him) only if he's alone, and doesn't have expensive dreams. Everyone prefers to earn $10k/month instead of $3k, but if you're alone, you'll be pretty comfortable almost anywhere in the world with $3k and you can accept it. It starts to harm your creativity when you have to make enough so that 3-4 people can make a living or if you're alone but have stupid dreams like buying a new jet-ski twice a year or some shit.

But to come back to the "neverending story" issue, of course it's hard to make it work, and at some point it probably will end, or stop for a few years before someone has a good idea for a comeback. But I still don't see why it's impossible. For me it is only a matter of talent and strategy, like in your Clancy example. Had he made different choices, he probably could have made some of his series of books last longer. Not forever, sure, but longer.

There are a lot of things we can learn from in mainstream pop culture. Take the Simpsons : I didn't follow the last 15 years, which everybody seem to agree sucks, but still, the first 15-20 years maintained a good quality level. And DmD lasted what ? 7 years ? Is it that far fetched to imagine it could have gone 2-3 years more with the right decisions from the team ?
Another example : South Park. What did the creators do to avoid burnout ? They don't make 20+ episodes a year, and nowadays they just don't work at all unless they have a good idea. Dots team could totally do the same if they have another main source of income like a normie, SL-like game. If they have no idea for DmD for 6 months, then so be it, they won't be bankrupt thanks to the normie game. Just like the South Park creators thanks to their musical (The Book of Mormon, go see it it's super fun :D ) and their licensing.

Then, there's the other issue, of "jumping the shark" or just having a peak in your show, and making it last too long for financial reason while never managing to reach this peak again. It happened for the Walking Dead, but it didn't happen for Breaking Bad. Creator knew that he couldn't maintain this level for more than 5 seasons. But people still enjoyed that universe, so what did they do : Better Call Saul, which in some ways is better than Breaking Bad. That's something you can apply to DmD, as well as an infinite number of other possibilities. The team just has to find the right way. It is hard but not impossible.

And just to repeat myself again, I feel that DmD was really lighting in a bottle in the realm of ero-games, there's an appeal you don't find in others, because of several elements, like character design, writing (the first 4-5 years at least) and also the fact that it was one of the firsts of its kind. So I can live without it of course, but I strongly feel it would be a waste to throw these characters and this universe away and never revisit them. To me Dots found what represents his brand with Dee, just like a Mickey Mouse for Disney or a Superman for DC-comics. There will always be an audience for it, even solely at the basic level of money making, it would be smart to seriously think about how you can make it work again in the future, imho.
 
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cxx

Message Maestro
Nov 14, 2017
57,067
28,232
Indeed, many people just lost interest after dmd, their other games.. meh
each on their own. by that devs should stop after 1st game since other games are worse by comparison.
 

White Lamp

Active Member
Dec 18, 2020
838
2,095
Hyperserver Some what unrelated to what was discussed so far, and maybe its too late but I think its a mistake to have the MC of the new game as the son.

The whole son, mom, 1-2 sister is one of the most generic incest set ups I've seen. The only path I'm excited for is the netori between MC + mom.

I would much rather see the MC being the dad. Have the son have a GF and have the dad steal her away from the son. I think that would be a more unique set up than what you have now. So it would be the following:

Harem path (everyone)
MC (dad) +2 daughters (pure incest path)
MC (dad) + and son GF + 1-2 daughters (cheat path)
minor characters examples: The neighbor that's a single mom and her daughter (cheat path)

The cheating kink would be much more taboo as the MC (dad) goes around the wife and son to fool around + corrupt the daughters + son GF compared to right now.

DMD was such an iconic game and you guys built an audience that loves the "older MC + younger LI" set ups. I think throwing that away for the generic "young guy and his mom + sister" is a mistake. I hope that it works out for you but I honestly don't think this new game would allow you guys to grow. At most, you would stop the bleeding subs but the subs will go stagnate.

Anyone else agrees/disagrees, why or why not?
 

Hyperserver

often the biggest step forward is to "step back"
Donor
Jun 30, 2018
2,885
7,576
Hyperserver Some what unrelated to what was discussed so far, and maybe its too late but I think its a mistake to have the MC of the new game as the son.

The whole son, mom, 1-2 sister is one of the most generic incest set ups I've seen. The only path I'm excited for is the netori between MC + mom.

I would much rather see the MC being the dad. Have the son have a GF and have the dad steal her away from the son. I think that would be a more unique set up than what you have now. So it would be the following:

Harem path (everyone)
MC (dad) +2 daughters (pure incest path)
MC (dad) + and son GF + 1-2 daughters (cheat path)
minor characters examples: The neighbor that's a single mom and her daughter (cheat path)

The cheating kink would be much more taboo as the MC (dad) goes around the wife and son to fool around + corrupt the daughters + son GF compared to right now.

DMD was such an iconic game and you guys built an audience that loves the "older MC + younger LI" set ups. I think throwing that away for the generic "young guy and his mom + sister" is a mistake. I hope that it works out for you but I honestly don't think this new game would allow you guys to grow. At most, you would stop the bleeding subs but the subs will go stagnate.

Anyone else agrees/disagrees, why or why not?
simple answer:
If player would be dad, you would have to watch how your son is building up his harem. ;) :ROFLMAO: :rolleyes:

Joke aside: it's far too late for that AND it wouldn't match the story arc we have in mind.
 
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Kryptozoid

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2016
1,189
2,390
Hyperserver Some what unrelated to what was discussed so far, and maybe its too late but I think its a mistake to have the MC of the new game as the son.

The whole son, mom, 1-2 sister is one of the most generic incest set ups I've seen. The only path I'm excited for is the netori between MC + mom.

I would much rather see the MC being the dad. Have the son have a GF and have the dad steal her away from the son. I think that would be a more unique set up than what you have now. So it would be the following:

Harem path (everyone)
MC (dad) +2 daughters (pure incest path)
MC (dad) + and son GF + 1-2 daughters (cheat path)
minor characters examples: The neighbor that's a single mom and her daughter (cheat path)

The cheating kink would be much more taboo as the MC (dad) goes around the wife and son to fool around + corrupt the daughters + son GF compared to right now.

DMD was such an iconic game and you guys built an audience that loves the "older MC + younger LI" set ups. I think throwing that away for the generic "young guy and his mom + sister" is a mistake. I hope that it works out for you but I honestly don't think this new game would allow you guys to grow. At most, you would stop the bleeding subs but the subs will go stagnate.

Anyone else agrees/disagrees, why or why not?
Good idea but it's not boring enough unfortunately.
 
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