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Being a Game Developer [Negative Comments/Constructive Criticism]

Discussion in 'Programming & Development' started by Boomatica, Mar 11, 2018.

Being a Game Developer [Negative Comments/Constructive Criticism] 3 5 2votes
3/5, 2 votes

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  1. Yoshiiki

    Yoshiiki Active Member Game Developer

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    Pretty much this on the matter. Though, still going to add my few cents to it.
    Speaking more from getting critique about draws (though, I will get some negative comments on my game, matter of time).
    What I often see are circles of self-jerking and cumming on each other with just positive responses. This can be even more dangerous, because at the point where someone will say "it's shit", shock itself will be bigger than what it should be. You can't please everyone, it's not possible. If you can't take in negative comments, don't go "public", life isn't just cuddles and butterflies.
    Also, there is a good reason why people focus more on one or two negative comments instead of positive ones. If someone dropped his project because few people said it's shit, then that person never trusted in their skills and what they created. Harsh, I know, but world is harsh.

    Or you can do whatever you want, write what you want. Don't police people on the Internet, they hate it. If something is shit in someone's opinion, then that's their opinion. Maybe it's not constructive, maybe it's just them saying "I don't like it and just want to express that I didn't like it".
    How about that? You will ask people to not write at all if they want to be jerks? I don't need a crystal ball to know how it will go.
    Also, that makes them a horrible person? Newsflash: I can bet that they don't give a damn. Some will even take a pride in it.

    Or how I like to say it: Stop crying in a corner and get a thicker skin.

    Seriously, that's what I often see around people who are drawing. Few mean comments and they are burning everything and cutting their hand off to never draw again. Here, have a saw, it will be faster.
     
    tooldev likes this.
  2. Gomly1980

    Gomly1980 Well-Known Member

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    Negative comments are never great (thankyou captain obvious) but they are going to happen whether we want them to or not.

    You put yourself out there and you run the risk of people not liking what you do.

    In porn we all have different tastes.

    There are genre's I despise and there are those I enjoy. I do avoid those I hate but occasionally a game i've been playing has added something in after months of saying it won't be there and I have voiced my displeasure.

    It's very rare I will tell someone their work is outright shit and only then if i've got into a debate with said creator and they think their shit doesn't stink.

    I know it's easier said than done but you need a thick skin. We're on the internet with people from all walks of life and you have put your work in front of them and said "here it is folks, judge me" and they will for good or bad.
     
    Yoshiiki likes this.
  3. Boomatica

    Boomatica Active Member Donor Game Developer

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    The sky looks blue during the day if there are no clouds out.
     
  4. polywog

    polywog Well-Known Member

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    There are several different genre of adult games. You can't please them all.
    Make a game that YOU like, and fans will find you.
    If you try to make a game with 20 different fetishes all rolled into one, some of your fans are going to hate it.
    -if you don't like it, don't put it in your game.
    Some may like their favorite part enough to forgive you, but not all.
    If someone takes the time to give a detailed hate-mail, it means they like your game, but they don't like one part of it, this is good feedback.
    If someone simply says "your game sucks" Ignore them.

    If you like your game, and you keep working on it, your fans will follow you through hell. If you hate what you're doing it will show in your work, and critics will watch you burn.

    When you're starting out, building a fanbase is important.
    Know the difference between fans and patrons, NEVER sell-out your fans. That quick $20 or 100 can cost you thousands in the long run.
     
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  5. Hentami

    Hentami Active Member Donor Game Developer

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    Love your post!

    Just stealth install data miners for any negative comment usernames. It really helps with the motivation I found.
    /winks

    What anyone should do when it gets too much
    - stop reading all comments
    - hire someone to read and reply for you
    - step away for a break

    Notice youtubers who become famous and then take a break? And most people think - how can you walk away from everything I wish I had! Again it's so simple.. No one can understand fame, true fame, until famous.

    Best of love and luck to everyone!
     
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  6. Yoshiiki

    Yoshiiki Active Member Game Developer

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    Now you got me confused. Either this is some deep meaning crap, or...
    You are doing exactly what I wrote, pretty much proving my point and shitting all over your own ideas. I really do hope it's the latter.
    >inb4 but this isn't a critique so it doesn't count.

    Oh boy, I would prefer all of this to be just sarcasm, but something tells me it's not and there is some salt in it.
    Here is my version when it gets too much:
    - Stop sitting and reading comments all day and go back to creating.
    Unless you are some big studio, focused only on money making, you don't need to put a wall between yourself and people. That's a really bad advice.

    EDIT:
    Oh right, there is one more thing to all of that. Let me flip that table so we can have a different perspective. So negative comments are bad because they lack constructive criticism? Well, by that standard positive comments "I liked it" are as bad because of the same thing. "But they are positive so it's fine", no, that's what we call a double standard.
     
    tooldev likes this.
  7. dspeed

    dspeed Active Member

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    That's an extremely good point.
     
  8. droid1984

    droid1984 Active Member Donor Game Developer

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    Not at all; they're both low-information content replies, but one is pleasant and the other is not. Getting told "your game sucks" vs "your game is ace" are both not giving you information, but one gives you a warm fuzzy glow and the other does not. What CAN make negative feedback worthwhile, despite the emotional knockback, is if it's constructive ("your game sucks" vs "you really need to fix the lighting; right now everything looks really flat". So it's not really a line, it's a continuum along two axes (content<>empty, positive<>negative), where empty negative comments are much too common, and feel like they've got impact. We both agree that learning to ignore that feedback is the best way.
     
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  9. Yoshiiki

    Yoshiiki Active Member Game Developer

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    Yes, we both agree on the fact that having a thicker skin is needed.
    But here is the thing where it all comes down to: One gives you negative feeling other positive feeling. Yeah, with big point on the word "feeling". So you get positive but empty comments and it makes you feel nice, yeah, fine, good for you. Then someone drops a mean comment and it's all about "muh feelings are hurt". Makes me want to laugh. Dunno, maybe it's because I'm a guy and feelings aren't exactly my specialization, but it just seem... weak? If someone can cripple you with few negative comments, then why the heck you went out there? What else can cripple you so easily?
    Seriously, a lot of people try to be way too nice and get same thing back, so they have this fogged view of reality. Then they go on the Internet, where people show their true colors, because muh anonymity and suddenly reality hits them so hard, they fall down and cry. So you either stand back up, wipe those tears and don't let be kicked around... or you keep laying down while getting abused until you break.
     
  10. droid1984

    droid1984 Active Member Donor Game Developer

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    I'm honestly not certain assholes being assholes online because 'muh anonymity' is 'reality'. It's just assholes being assholes without the risk of someone punching them in the face. It just makes them cowardly assholes.

    So ignore them, move on. They've got nothing useful to contribute.
     
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  11. Yoshiiki

    Yoshiiki Active Member Game Developer

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    Oh no, it's actually a thing. People are way more open in expressing their true self on the web when they engage in a talk or comment or something. The more anonymity you give them, more honest expression you will get. You can see that on imageboards constantly. While almost non existing lack of social cues may seem like everyone is angry, sometimes it may just be a negative opinion. There is a huge difference when someone is thinking "this movie is shit" and then goes out of cinema and someone screaming "This movie is shit!" and going out of cinema.
    Sure, it's already different at the point where you have avatar assigned to you online, that's when you start toning down.
    Here is another funny thing, a lot of times people that want to throw punches as their comment indicates, actually can't throw them. Then it often goes into "yeah? I can do this, that and other shit I came up with" and other personal attacks. It's just as low as the assholes making asshole comments, because they know they can hide behind the web and say whatever. Same thing, different side.
    Anyway, solution to the issue is simple and repeated so many times, it's going nowhere at this point. :D
    And as much as I like some good shitposting that comes after that, I will rather sit back and check if there is a new, more valid argument (which I doubt, but who knows?)
     
  12. V.A. Laurie

    V.A. Laurie Game Writer & Editor Game Developer

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    I agree here. Being a developer does not suddenly make one an expert on project management. This is a learned skill. I've looked out to the internet in the past to find help with this for projects I have done and I found this one company, Check Tech i think it was called, that helped me once before. They are a team, or maybe just one dude, who helps developers with the project management side of things. Having that little bit of help just in terms of planning, scheduling, prioritizing, etc, really helps developers in the early stages of work. I know that a lot of the people here can't afford to hire a team, and luckily for me, Check Tech didn't charge me anything at first. They advertise that they charge, but they ended up working pro bono, probably just to help their own experience.

    I definitely agree with that. I see a lot of people here with truly ambitious goals. "Every single choice you make changes the entire story!" - Like, that's a great idea, and I would love to see it, but the amount of planning that takes to ensure that you are planning out the story ahead of time for each of those options and how they will all interact in the future is a lot of work. I write as a profession, and even I wouldn't dare try to say that "every choice" in my games has an impactful result. It's unrealistic to say that, if you are working on the story each month while you develop the graphics, code, etc. If you truly want every choice presented to make a big difference in the story and gameplay, you need to plan that story out months and months in advance. There is no other way.

    My god this is so true. For example, both of the games I am writing had parts end with events that were polarizing to the consumers. In fact, with Freeloading Family, people are still saying the game will be NTR, even though I am telling them straight up it isn't (but this partly comes down to your definition of NTR, i guess... but i stand by my statement. it isn't.) -- They see the one scene that is available because the update is over, and then instead of waiting to see what comes next, they become overwhelmed with assumptions. I cannot blame them, but I can say that it has caused a lot of devs (even some I work/worked with) to question their own game, or my ability to tell the story we are working on. The comments section here, when negative, does affect the devs.

    I have been writing long enough to know that sometimes you need to push forward through the negative comments to continue down the path you have set. New Life With My Daughter is an example there - People called NTR because of the ending I had to write (tl;dr: i was given images without context when i took over as the writer, and people were upset about it, but i did not choose the images, i simply had to incorporate them... since then i was able to prove to everyone that it's not NTR, and was instead only a plot device). There are devs who, in the face of negative comments definitely quit. I am not one of them. I continued on, and the game is back on track now.

    I used this analogy with FFCreations recently while we were discussing the response to a recent update: When watching a movie, do you get mad at the hero 15 minutes in for not solving the problem? Probably not. You wait, you watch, you see where the story goes, and at the end, once it's all done, then you probably make your opinions. - The game isn't over if it's still updating. This analogy may not work with everyone or every game, but if you are writing a game and someone complains that something is happening in a way they wouldn't want it to, or a way they don't like... don't give up. All that is, that kind of comment, is someone giving an opinion when they don't know what will happen yet.

    Personally, I think that when it comes to Criticism, the most constructive kind, whether it's good or bad, is the kind that takes the form of reactions, thoughts, and feelings while playing. This has been said already in here, but I'm just putting my two cents in - If someone plays my games and says "when I saw X happen, it made me worry about what will happen next," is far superior to "X happened, now that game is ruined." -- Both have the feelings of the player, but the second version can make a new dev think, "oh man, i fucked up!" -- especially if others are saying similar things.
    It doesn't have to mean that you've fucked up, though. It means that someone/some people do not like what they played. I am a firm believer in sticking to your plan. People will always find reasons to be upset, and nothing will please every person, so stick to your plan, build the game you want, and most of all, complete it!
     
  13. Gomly1980

    Gomly1980 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about other people but I tone it down a hell of a lot online. Forums like to ban people, I don't have that problem in life.

    My wife hates going shopping with me because I tend to shout at those fuckwits that stop in the middle of the aisle for a conversation when there is plenty of room at either end of said aisle.

    On the other side of that coin I like to hang around on forums which means getting along as well as possible with people on those forums.
     
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  14. Boomatica

    Boomatica Active Member Donor Game Developer

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    I'm happy to see people have taken the time to the write and explain their views on this subject.
    I know it's opened my eyes regarding a couple of things and helped me see the point of view from other peoples perspectives.
    So thank you to all of you that have taken the time to reply to this thread.
    Not just for me but for other people as well.

    -boom
     
  15. dspeed

    dspeed Active Member

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    I was lucky enough to do a module on Project Management for 3 years during my degree and I can't stress how much this has not only helped me work but also how much ahead it puts you from the bedroom programmers.

    Gantt charts, Work Breakdown Structures, PERT charts with critical path analysis - all of these are an incredible help when developing an indie project and they force you to really think out your design properly. Not only that but as somebody who thrives under a schedule and works best towards a goal, they focus my energies on the things that need to be focused on. I can tell you right now what work I'll be doing on March 29th, or May 3rd, or July 16th. That's a really big help as otherwise you lose days just wondering what the hell it is you're supposed to be doing next or worse, you increase scope and start bloating the project with your latest Eureka moment.

    In fact having a loose education in Project Management, maybe just by looking up the three things I posted above and having a Google/Youtube on them to understand what they are, is possibly the best advice I've ever heard anybody give to new developers. Hell, just Wiki-reading PMBOK and learning how to properly define project scope is a 10 minute job but a massive gain in the chances of completing your product.
     
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  16. Yoshiiki

    Yoshiiki Active Member Game Developer

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    I can't remember where I mentioned lack of this as an issue, but this and thousand times this. Even most basic form of project management is better than being chaotic. Sure, maybe it doesn't have to do anything with topic on hand, but whoever plans on making anything more complicated than a toothpick, start learning on how to plan ahead.
    Same goes for dev teams, even more as a must. Choose a leader to coordinate everything, have everything under unified form, so it's just a quick look at information and not going through tons of files in random form each member likes.
    And don't assume that it's not problem because "my project is small", it still applies.
     
    dspeed likes this.
  17. LePlumber

    LePlumber Active Member

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    IMO is a matter of perspectives.

    Some of the works and stories out there are far more offensive than someone spitting on your face, appeals to the sheep and masochists I guess, is just that some people feel like spitting back. :tf:


    Some day I will post the game I'm working on and I'm sure many people will try to come and hit me back for some of my comments. It will happen. XD

    Some people actually try to make a living out of this kind of games, or at least some money to pay for bills, and they come with second, third or, ninth accounts to make extreme comments. That helps them to keep competition in check, or they brag about how they can make it better.

    In my case is more like me saying "Are you flocking out of your mind!? That is flocking repulsive!" about something I really don't like. :test3:

    Some people voice their opinions, some people are posers with second intentions... just saying.
     
  18. polywog

    polywog Well-Known Member

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    Every adult game ever made offends someone somewhere.
    In the world of 3D art, offensive has been the majority for over 20 years. Only recently have we started to see plain ordinary romantic missionary sex for purposes of procreation 3D games. 3D has been dominated by fantasy, monsters, elves, grotesque... because anything is possible in 3D (not to exclude 2D) Imaginations can go anywhere in 3D... things you can't do in real-life. If you prefer realism, go watch porn.
    If everything is clear in the description (no surprise trans gender, gay, NTR, etc.) and the game is tagged properly, it shouldn't bother anyone. If you didn't read the description, and you don't like the game, because it contains content that you don't like, which was clearly tagged... you can only blame yourself.

    Photo May 10.jpg

    Sure, a lot of things in games are gross. Half the fun is being able to do these things in a game, because we can't or aren't allowed to do it in reality.
     
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  19. LePlumber

    LePlumber Active Member

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  20. Yoshiiki

    Yoshiiki Active Member Game Developer

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    And you and me and a guy that delivers my mail. We are all in this together.
    Sounds negative to me without proper critique. Think twice before you write anything.
    Yes, this is sarcasm.
     
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