Being a Game Developer [Negative Comments/Constructive Criticism]

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Yoshiiki

Member
Game Developer
Nov 10, 2017
273
219
Good that I have alcohol near me.
HI everybody. I'd like to share my opinion here. I'll try to be as polite as possible, but at the same time I want to say how I see it.
I won't be polite, to balance things out.
First I want to say that being polite is virtue. If everyone would be polite we wouldn't have this discussion, would we? Being polite doesn't mean saying only nice things, it means saying things in a way that doesn't offend anyone.
But I don't want to be polite and offend people that can't take it, neither do I care if their fee fees are hurt. And I can guarantee you it's not only me. Doesn't mean it's always the case.
Lately, it seems to me that the line between being polite and being rude is sometimes blurred. For some people saying something might be within the realm of politeness and for someone it might be offensive. For example saying to woman that she's beautiful might be compliment to her and to another woman it might be objectifying.
Lately? Oh, that explains a lot. Welcome to the internet, no one gives a fuck.
Some random girl says some stupid shit about objectifying. Go with proper rule: don't stick it in the crazy and move along.
Only the speaker knows the real intent behind their words, but we always interpret them in multiple ways. We're sad so we see a comment as aggression towards us, we're happy and open minded and we see constructive criticism. Not to mention the emotions of the writter of the comment. They may be even in worse state of mind and they say or write something they wouldn't otherwise. Or they were happy and meant it as a innocent tease.
Oh? Only speaker knows the real intent? Well, if someone posts "you are a shit" then intent was pretty obvious. But yeah, let's go all Freud on this. If you see negative comments you either fucked up or they are just shitposting. Also, why did you switch constructive criticism in place of positive comments? Because right now you can have three things: Negative comment, positive and constructive criticism. Or just call it a comment.
Or it wasn't innocent tease, they though it was shit and said exactly that, jeezas...
So what should we do about comments that make us sad or offended? Well, that depends on circumstances I guess. Most of the times we'll get verbally attacked by random people on the street or internet, pub, wherever. To this I say ignore it. That person doesn't matter to you, so don't give him the pleasure to be sad or offended because of them. IF you get sad or offended, that means you have low self-respect and you should work on that.
Simplified: If you give reaction to an action, there will be more action. 20 years of Internet and nothing changed on the matter. Kids those days can't take any shit. You slightly poke them and they loose their mind like privileged little fucks.
But there is other group of people who can say something bad to you. And that are people you know, family, friends or for example patrons. If they attack you for the first time, don't attack back right away, don't get sad or offended right away. Instead ask them why they say what they say. It might have been just a short frustration, anger, or something else entirely. They might apologize right away, or phrase their comment better, so you can understand where they're coming from and then you can respond properly. If you get upset by their initial comment, don't respond right away (if that's possible), because in the heat of the moment you might say something you might regret latter.
Or learn about banter, throw it all out, if your friendship didn't survive this, it wasn't worth it. Most of the time you are in a pub, drinking another beer like nothing happened.
Yeah, kids, in the heat of the moment you may say something bad and then try to pedal back like a bitch so no one is upset. Let's cut out whole spectrum of emotions and turn into marshmallows so anyone can turn us into pulp with few words...
IF your friends or relatives etc. attack you periodically you have to stand up for yourself. First try to find, if there's a bit of truth in the message they're telling you over and over. For example if they're yelling at you "Your fat shit, your fat shit" and you actually weight a lot, maybe you should start seriously thinking about it and not get offended or get sad. Think about it and if you find out your happy as it is, then fight back, tell them that you're happy and you won't change. If they won't stop yelling at you, then you should sever the ties. Such a relationship doesn't lead nowhere, and even if you care about them, they don't care about you enough to let you make your own deccisions.
If someone is a fat fuck and says it's fine, then that's a lazy fat fuck. Get to the fucking gym, those people care more for you than you yourself and that's actually their problem, I wouldn't even bother spending a word unless it's for fun or for a friend.
Yeah, cut out all people that don't want you to suffer, that's a great advice. Eat another fry and die before getting 40yo. Jeezas.
So what is the point of all this stuff? Be respectful, not just to others but to yourself as well. When somebody attacks you for no good reason, try to find out why if you care about that person, or ignore them if you don't. Respect yourself and know yourself enough and you will know that what ever some random person says isn't true.
Point? I will tell you what's the point: To preach and hoping to change mind of people so they won't shit on you. People won't suddenly be nice, even after years of trying to make them, they kick back hard at it. Normal conversations do happen more often than people shitting on each other, it's when some bullshit comes up all that negativity hits on like a train.
These days so many people feel that they have the right to get offended. That freedom of speech is attacking their existence. NO, it doesn't. Their state of mind is attacking their existence. They doubt about themselves and they need justification for outside world to make themselves feel better, but they don't get any. All they really need is to believe in themselves a little bit more.
Offence is taken is what you wanted to say.

And of course, same thing, hiding your game behind "pay $5 for newest version or wait, you poorfag". Those are milking methods and only point is to do exactly that. So yeah, I love when people preach about being nice and shit, while don't mind using disgusting methods to grind money. And as I said, do it whoever you like, but keep in mind what you are doing. Everyone wants to be next EA.

Bored of this thread, too many money grabbing snowflakes.
 

MikeMasters

Professional Amateur
Game Developer
Jun 7, 2017
395
496
Good that I have alcohol near me.

I won't be polite, to balance things out.

But I don't want to be polite and offend people that can't take it, neither do I care if their fee fees are hurt. And I can guarantee you it's not only me. Doesn't mean it's always the case.
What I hear is, "I can talk shit to everybody and I don't care what they think." Well, good for you. Talk like that to all your friends and relatives all the time and soon you'll have only the alcohol. There has to be a way to conduct yourself in life and online that won't be deliberately attacking others. If you want to attack others, then they shouldn't just get offended, the should ignore you.

Lately? Oh, that explains a lot. Welcome to the internet, no one gives a fuck.
Some random girl says some stupid shit about objectifying. Go with proper rule: don't stick it in the crazy and move along.
I've never said that you should get along with the crazy, I just tried to point out the disparity between reactions to the same comment and why does it happen. And then suggested how people on the recieving end should process such a comment.

Oh? Only speaker knows the real intent? Well, if someone posts "you are a shit" then intent was pretty obvious.
Maybe I should have explain it a little more in detail, but mz mind sometimes jump ahead and I don't write it. So if someone posts "you are a shit", then the best reaction is to ignore it. You can ask why they wrote it, if you want, so they may explain themselves, but most of the time you won't get a decent response.

But yeah, let's go all Freud on this. If you see negative comments you either fucked up or they are just shitposting. Also, why did you switch constructive criticism in place of positive comments? Because right now you can have three things: Negative comment, positive and constructive criticism. Or just call it a comment.
Or it wasn't innocent tease, they though it was shit and said exactly that, jeezas...
What I meant by it is when you get comments like "This game is really bad". This can be considered as negative comment, but it also might be true, if the game is bad. The reaction to this shouldn't be emotional despair, but instead you should ask for explanation. When emotions get out of the way, you might actually get constructive criticism. But it's not a positive comment. The bit with innocent tease was just to prove my point, that you don't know the intent of the message, if it can be interpreted in multiple ways. So don't assume the worst the first second.


Simplified: If you give reaction to an action, there will be more action. 20 years of Internet and nothing changed on the matter. Kids those days can't take any shit. You slightly poke them and they loose their mind like privileged little fucks.
Simplified: No that's not true. If you don't add more fuel to the fire people won't get more aggresive towards you. So it's about being polite again, even to rude people. If the keep being rude, then just stop talking to them. But if they calm down and start talking normally, then you can figure out whatever the problem is.

Or learn about banter, throw it all out, if your friendship didn't survive this, it wasn't worth it. Most of the time you are in a pub, drinking another beer like nothing happened.
Yeah, kids, in the heat of the moment you may say something bad and then try to pedal back like a bitch so no one is upset. Let's cut out whole spectrum of emotions and turn into marshmallows so anyone can turn us into pulp with few words...
Banter is a good think, tease your friends from time to time and have food laugh about it is pure joy. There's a different between friendly chit-chat where everybody has a good time, and emotional abuse to force someone to do something they don't want to (like loosing the weight). I haven't said that you shouldn't listen to the message hidden behind the rude form. In fact I've stated that you should really think about it and only if you find out that your happy the way you are then you should say "that's enough, I won't change" Ultimatelly it's your bad decision, but others should respect it. And maybe in time you'll change your mind and thank your friends for pushing you. But the message might be "you have ugly nose, go get plastic surgery." It might be fun for first couple time, but then it'll turn into annoyance and they should stop, if they know their boundaries. If not the receiving party should politely ask them to stop.

If someone is a fat fuck and says it's fine, then that's a lazy fat fuck. Get to the fucking gym, those people care more for you than you yourself and that's actually their problem, I wouldn't even bother spending a word unless it's for fun or for a friend.
This is where your wrong. Fat people are not lazy, they don't have any self-respect. They can sacrifice their lives for other, but are unable to do something just for themselves. They are very productive when it comes to creating something that many people will benefit from, so they can put the time and effort in. They aren't lazy. Most of the time they bottle up some pain inside, whether it is reasonable or not, that's not the point. They feel it is reasonable, and only talking about the pain can help them move roward.
Changing your lifestyle is hard, if you don't have money or support, you won't make it. It's not about losing weight, it's about starting new life and that terrifies people. So they rather is in couch doing what the know then explore the unknown.
Yeah, cut out all people that don't want you to suffer, that's a great advice. Eat another fry and die before getting 40yo. Jeezas.
Again, probably haven't explained myself completely. Cut out only the people who mentally abuse you for years. If you have a friend who tells you every day "you're a shit" then what's the point of spending time with them.
Btw, why turning into personal attack? You don't know me, I'm not fat, but I like fries from time to time. I might as well say that you should get of your steroids. They make you overly aggressive and your balls ridiculously small. But in fact that's a good thing, because we don't need people like you to procreate.

Point? I will tell you what's the point: To preach and hoping to change mind of people so they won't shit on you. People won't suddenly be nice, even after years of trying to make them, they kick back hard at it. Normal conversations do happen more often than people shitting on each other, it's when some bullshit comes up all that negativity hits on like a train.
Looks like you completely missed the point. The point is that people on the receiving end shouldn't get offended in the first instance. They should think before react and I might suggest that to you too. The point is that people should ignore offensive matterial instead of trying to block it for everyone. The point is to look at th eother side, see what the see and then react.

Offence is taken is what you wanted to say.
Why would I want to say that? I don't know you. Most likely I'll never meet you in my life, so why should I get offended by you. Whatever you say won't offend me. I'll either ignore it or try find the reason behind your words. You can say whatever you want and I shouldn't command you otherwise. But I can say whatever I want too, and I think that people in general should be more polite to each other. It's not about what you say, but how you say it. But you can speak however you want, I just won't react to you if I find you annoying.

And of course, same thing, hiding your game behind "pay $5 for newest version or wait, you poorfag". Those are milking methods and only point is to do exactly that. So yeah, I love when people preach about being nice and shit, while don't mind using disgusting methods to grind money. And as I said, do it whoever you like, but keep in mind what you are doing. Everyone wants to be next EA.
Let me laugh at that. Maybe you should give your game for free, then. And don't hide it behind $1 paywall like you do. Because what is diffrerence between $5 and $1 paywall? Only your perception of what is tolerable. In fact that is exact the same bullshit like with speech. You hear something that might offend someone but not you and you find it ridiculous. On the other hand you find it outrageous to ask for $5 when asking for $1 is ok. Why are you getting upset? Because you can get your favorite candy for the change in your pocket? Don't participate in such a heinous behavior if you don't like it. But don't ask others to change, because that's the same thing as if I wanted you to change the way you talk to us. If you don't see the parallel here, then you're as blinded as the snowflakes you want me to be.

Bored of this thread, too many money grabbing snowflakes.
Thanks for interesting point of yours. Standing behind your ideas is admirable, but be prepared to receive what you give.
 
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Yoshiiki

Member
Game Developer
Nov 10, 2017
273
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Seems like we both don't understand what other side is saying. Fine. I don't agree with few things, but as I said, bored of this thread. I can discuss in another thread with more suited topic or PM. This thread simply lost it's entertainment value.
So yeah, that's one option to continue this, other thing you can do is just assuming you are fully correct or whatever you want to "feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel".
:D
 

The Architect

Singing dancing crap of the world
Game Developer
May 2, 2017
525
1,750
Since there's a way to talk to strangers hiding behind a keyboard, lots of people think that being rude is a cheap trick to prove themselves. Sarcasm overdose is another old time internet disease. I got bored of both several years ago and just try to ignore them since then. Most people suck. Just focus your attention in the few ones that worth it (finding them is a pleasant game!).

That said, there's an amazing line said by J. K. Simmons in the movie Whiplash:
Terrence Fletcher said:
"There are no two words in the English language more harmful than 'good job'"
His point is: if a person gives up some work because of criticism about it, it means he most probably would never do a great job anyway. Doesn't matter if it's constructive criticism or not.

When a new dev is making his first game, he needs someone to kick him off the peak of the Dunning-Kruger graph. It happens to everyone starting a new venture.


I think this is one of very few the cases when a "this is a complete shit, give up" comment is worth of being read. If you can't overcome the Valley of Despair, then Terrence Fletcher was right.
 
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Droid Productions

[Love of Magic]
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Game Developer
Dec 30, 2017
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Dunno. the DK effect is certainly real; anyone dealing with a job with high technical competence bar has seen it.

But calling something shit is rarely useful. At the beginning of the slope they'll ignore you, because they're awesome and wtf do you know? At the bit of despair they'll believe you, and quit. Once they get out of that they'll look at their stuff, look at you, and say "fuck off, troll...what do you know"?

So it's always better to say "*this* is shit, but I love that and that and that". Now we're not enemies, we're allies in helping you make a better game.

I tend to listen more to allies than enemies. I'm weird like that
 

polywog

Forum Fanatic
May 19, 2017
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Dunno. the DK effect is certainly real; anyone dealing with a job with high technical competence bar has seen it.

But calling something shit is rarely useful. At the beginning of the slope they'll ignore you, because they're awesome and wtf do you know? At the bit of despair they'll believe you, and quit. Once they get out of that they'll look at their stuff, look at you, and say "fuck off, troll...what do you know"?

So it's always better to say "*this* is shit, but I love that and that and that". Now we're not enemies, we're allies in helping you make a better game.

I tend to listen more to allies than enemies. I'm weird like that
I don't mean to dis video-game mentality, on a game forum... but
Having a different opinion with someone doesn't make them your "enemy"
We don't all have to agree on everything.
I've had bloody battles with a few people, and bought them a drink afterwards.
---- "Have I not destroyed my enemy, by befriending him?"
Something that can't be stressed enough, is "Don't take it personally"
If you show weakness, reveal vulnerability... trolls will eat you.

Freedom of speech for all.
1521039767837.jpg
 
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Boom's Attic Games

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May 27, 2017
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It's been a while since I came back to look at this thread, it actually got more attention than I thought it would.
There are Some very good Opinions and Views from both sides of the fence which is always a good perspective for anyone to look at.
 
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FishboneGamingLabs

Newbie
Game Developer
Jan 31, 2018
38
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I usually look at some comments left on posts regarding games from some well known developers and is almost shocking how little respect people have for developers work and their time.
Every game has it flaws, every game has its own specific audience, but people just can't refrain themselves from bashing and insulting instead of ignoring and moving forward.
What I find funny, is that I think there are more insulting posts for a commercial game (provided for free) than thanks to the releaser combined with genunine posts about the game itself.
 
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