Your way of reviewing games

[HO_Dude]

Because when you make a review you have to review the game for what it is (and is meant to be)

Agreed on first, but disagreed on the statement in the clauses, but not completely. Depends on what to put in "meant to be". As I've said in the beginning, one better review the game as is, without any meta-info, like what the dev actually wanted this and that to be but couldn't make it, or what he promised to add/fix later. So, the reviews shouldn't be a participation prize like: "Well, all your characters are badly written. Oh, you actually wanted them to be interesting? Sorry, didn't know, take your 5/5". But if you're telling about "I wanted a duck, but it's a goose"-style, then, I assume, you're referring to "not enough sex scenes". Well hello, you're making an adult game and promote it on a site with porn games. Your game is almost 2 years into the development, so of course people would expect seeing sex scenes. If such reviews bother you, why don't you post it in bold on the front page of the game thread, to make your point: "If you exect sex scenes, go play something else".

But if they do as you and only point out what is loved by the community as something bad then I facepalm and ask myself what is wrong with this dude.

Ye, what is wrong with this dude, he's actually having an opinion. Next month you come to me and say "Well this and that in your own game suck", and what can and will I do, if that's your opinion? I won't go on and say "well akchualy my XXX fans told me that it's all good, therefore you're just a dickhead and your opinion doesn't matter in the slightest, oh and also it's wrong".

Douchebag Reviewer "I TIS HATE! U MUST CHANGE! I SAYH SO!"

Doucebag Reviewer "Na, bro. I'm right you're wrong."

This looks like a strawman to me, to be honest. Because at least in your examples there was no such thing as an outright demand. One of the guys simply said "I don't like it, but if you do, that's cool". Same for me: I disliked this and that. Did I demand anything from you? Nope, I've just told you how I feel about your game. And of course we're not bringing up the reviews that don't contain anything in them except "dis is shit kys", however in the latest 6 or so pages I haven't seen any of such reviews for your game. There are more "wow it's 11/10 and whatever to get to 200 characters" than those.

to your negativity

I wasn't expressing any negativity towards anything. I simply stated what things I dislike. And tried to prove my point, as well as defending my opinion.

The dialogue is what made people love the game

And I wasn't even saying that I disliked your dialogue as a whole. Just those moments of cringe.

First, I have never had a review so terrible over a few renders.

Come on, that was a theoretical example.

My negative reviews aren't beneficial to myself or to my audience. They give a false sense of what you can expect when playing my VN. Now, if someone were to rate my game a three star and say "There's too much jumping around between renders and it's making me dizzy."

I've rated a game 1/5 pointing out something like that among other reasons, hehe. That was Exchange Student, and its dev decided that it's a really good idea to put fade transition on literally every scene, making me almost physically sick. Would that review be beneficial to the dev or the audience? I doubt it, because the dev most probably will ignore the 1-star review, but he didn't deserve more stars anyway. But hey. For example, Hopes would get 4/5 from me at the time of 0.04. With me saying that dialogue and scenes are extremely cringy at times, which kills the mood. Would you treat this review as a negative one? Probably, I don't know.

One of my favorites games was Where The Heart Is. Now, I could go through and pick it apart bit by bit and find a tremendous amount of things I think are poorly done. But I don't do that, I look at it as a whole. I enjoyed my experience despite its flaws. If I were to review it, I might mention some of the flaws but it's a five star game. I loved it.

Okay, let me show you my example. I actually liked Unleashed, despite it having sometimes over-the-top humour and meh visuals (the lighting in most scenes and those backgrounds...). It even had one of the best sex scenes in the industry (imo). However, it recently got updated, and the update was a huge disappointment. Not in the quantity of the content (which was a disappointment all by itself), but in quality. Compared to what the game was before and what the dev could actually show us, this was the same as a lazy spit in the face. The visuals dropped a lot in quality, as did the writing, which was the strongest point of the whole game. So, yeah, while viewing it as a whole, I couldn't give it more than 3 stars (would give 4 otherwise), simply because the dev decided to lower the quality for reasons undisclosed. Maybe he's drying out, who knows.

where a good third of the reviews are just such low quality, is it really worth letting reviews that obviously struggle to reach the word limit stay?

I've mentioned this in the OP as a thing I myself dislike, but it doesn't really hurt anybody, so it's still better than their polar opposites at 1/5, right?
But the fact that you can find such reviews everywhere, even on clearly bad games, just says that most people here have really low standards. The market of adult games isn't as saturated yet, so that's inevitable.

 

[SecretSal]

Don't really read reviews here before deciding to take a punt on a game. The overview, genre tags, and screenshots are enough information. I don't mind the occasional game that doesn't work for me slipping through the filter, since the time and effort invested on playing it is minimal. Also, there's no telling what works for me - a game with good writing and great renders might leave me cold, and one with Engrish dialog and Honey Select characters might somehow hit the spot. So it's worth digging around, avoiding only genres that are a hard pass for me.

As for writing reviews, on the odd occasion I do, it's usually more to lend support to a project that I like than to give a complete objective summary for other users. So I don't bother with negative reviews, and there will be 5-star ratings for games that are clearly not perfect, but that I want to see continue. So there could well be some dissonance between the rating and the review, but the review should at least sum up why the game works for me, and the rating is just a gold star for a dev working on something that has piqued my interest.

 

[Lockheart]

Come on, that was a theoretical example.

I know, but it happens. I have dialogue in my game where one of the main characters briefly explains that he is flirting and someone reviewed my game negatively claiming it was constant. It was literally a small part of one scene. And it was cute.

That was Exchange Student, and its dev decided that it's a really good idea to put fade transition on literally every scene, making me almost physically sick.

That was probably a glitch. I got a complaint about that once too about my game. I use fade extremely sparingly, only to switch to a new scene. But they said it was after every image. You should really check back and make sure that's not the case because that would be really terrible to have rated it a one-star for a corrupted download.

I actually liked Unleashed, despite it having sometimes over-the-top humour and meh visuals (the lighting in most scenes and those backgrounds...).

I have actually not given this game a try because the lighting is so bad. And it looks like the lighting is bad throughout. Lighting is hard in Daz. But it's also so important.

For example, Hopes would get 4/5 from me at the time of 0.04. With me saying that dialogue and scenes are extremely cringy at times, which kills the mood. Would you treat this review as a negative one? Probably, I don't know.

It depends on how you write the review. I'd have to read it. If it was "Stupid writing, stupid stupid!" Yeah, I'd discount it. But if you said "Some lines feel as though they could have been improved with better sentence structure and / or more complex wording." I'd take it seriously and I might even message you to ask for specifics so I can go back and fix it.

In fact, I messaged everyone that has given me a negative review and thanked them for taking the time. I hoped this would encourage them to give it another try later on but honestly, the responses I usually get are pompous and firm. And unhelpful.

As long as your review is meant to be helpful, supportive and constructive then I think you should write it however you want. Go into the review giving the developer the benefit of the doubt. He / She is probably working really hard and trying to accommodate so don't write a review that's obnoxiously negative. Be supportive. That's my main point.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You don't decide the quality of your game, the players do.

Yeah, "the playerS"... And as far as I know, neither the guy who wrote the review, nor you, are all the players.
It happen that the players have placed this game among the higher rated ones. There's a reason for this, and if you want to express another voice, you'll need more that your own biased (like you point yourself) opinion. You need to argument, you need to demonstrate. If you don't do it, then it's not a review, just someone who like the sound of his voice.

Your dialogue sometimes is cringeworthy, [...]

Why this emphasis on the wrongly used "is" ?
Are you a best sellers author ? Are you an awarded scenarist ? I really doubt about this, mostly because you wouldn't write such things if you were. Therefore, why writing this when what you thought is that, for you, the dialogs feel cringe worthy ?
You transform what is nothing more than a biased opinion into a judgmental truth...

despite liking Luna and actually being engaged in the story (I guess I dropped it around 0.04?). When the characters talk like they're from a kids' action movie, I know it's definitely not for me.

But, they are in a kids' action movie !

With the exception of Antonio, not a single member of the DeLuca family, not even Cordia herself, take life too seriously. They can die at anytime, it's part of the job, and they are so aware of this, that they enjoy every single instant of their life. Each one in his own way.

Therefore, there's people like Wilfred, that looks serious all the time, but use double entendre, sarcasm and irony. He take his pleasure from the embarrassment of the MC. But not in a sadistic way, it's more a fatherly attitude, a way to teach him a lesson with some humor. Remove this, change the way his dialogs are wrote, and you'll not just change Wilfred personality, you'll also erase all the feelings he have for the MC.
Wilfred is the Consigliere, he wouldn't talk in such familiar way, he wouldn't mock the MC when delivering his package, if he didn't saw him like a son. Among other things they express, Wilfred's dialogs show how much he care for the MC and how much he like him.
Write them in another way, and the player wouldn't be aware of this. Therefore, either you would end with an obscure and difficultly understandable story, or you would need to enforce those information by the addition of useless scenes, narration or, worth, internal thoughts.

And the same apply for people like the skate girl Capo (sorry, don't remember her name). She's on the crazy side of the spectrum, which is common in the Family. But it doesn't mean that she's bad at what she do, not that she don't deserve to be a Capo. And, more important, it's not at all the mark of a bad writing.
She's totally crazy on the outside, but 100% deadly serious in the inside. Just take the time to read attentively what she say before her last kill during the raid. And you'll see that the sudden raise in her craziness come from the intense suffering she feel at this moment. She failed to protect one of her guys, and giving in her craziness is her way to express how guilty she feel about this.
It's her fault, because of this, she don't even deserve to be a member of the family... How could she deserve such honor if she isn't able to protect the other members of the family, even more when those members are under her responsibility ?
And all this is clearly expressed in her dialog lines. As childish and/or cheap they can looks at your own eyes, they express this, and they wouldn't be able to express it if her dialogs where wrote in a more serious tone.

Of course, you are free to not like this kind of writing, it's your right. But it's just your opinion, and nothing more.
As said above, for you the dialogs feel cringe worthy, and I demonstrated why, despite this feeling you have, they aren't cringe worthy...

[...] but it shouldn't just go over the top and become some kind of shonen anime.

Why ? Once again, who are you to write such judgmental things ? Who are you to tell an author how he have to write his story ?
The way he do it is appreciated by a large majority of the players (and not only them, felicitation for what you retweeted HopesGaming ), why should he change it because you don't like it ?

Like I explained above, not only it would totally change the personality of all the members of the family, but it would also remove all meaning of the story. The DeLuca Family would be a mafia family like any other, some dark and depressive crime organization that they aren't at all. They are more on the side of a modern Robin Hood.
Of course, they kill and do all sort of bad things, but what we know about Cordia past tell us everything we need to know to understand what it's a so strange family. It seem obvious that Cordia never really wanted to be the head of a mafia family. What the four Serpents wanted was to kill the wolf... But once done they had no choice. Either they became the wolf, and where in position to decide how people would be treated, or they let the place to another wolf that wouldn't be less bad than the one they killed.

And once again, all this is expressed both by what the dialog lines contain, and by the way they are wrote. Therefore, once again, write them differently, and you'll remove more than half of the story.
It's because the dialogs lines are wrote like this, that we know that they are all crazy but caring. It's because the dialogs lines are wrote like this, that we know why they are crazy and even more caring.

To me, it looks like at some point you lost that subtle (or not so subtle) line between fitting comedy and childish pathetic lines like: "I did the unthinkable. I touched his hat" "what?! are you crazy?! you've literally touched his hat?!" (or whatever the big trigger for the sniper dude was, quote of course not 100% correct, but I'm sure it had pretty much the same idea). These moments break the established atmosphere and interfere with immersion.

Your comment make me wonder if the problem isn't just that you misunderstood the game ; it's a common thing than happen to all of us. You thought that you would like it, but now you are deceived because you slowly discover that the story isn't at all the one you expected. I wonder it because if you understood the story, you would also understand why those lines exist and continue the established atmosphere, instead of breaking it like you think.
Mr High-Five (hope he'll not hear me say this) value the privacy of his identity more than everything else, except the family. There's a reason for this, and I suspect that he value it even more now that the MC is part of the family. You don't approach him, you don't touch him, and obviously you don't touch what he own. If you do, you'll not just have a hard time... Remember Gottardo being his target when they rescued the girls and the MC... It's an established thing, and part of the established atmosphere, that he is deadly crazy even for the member of the family.

But well, all this said, the fact is that Hope isn't the one that deceived you, and therefore have no reason to change something. You were self deceived, if there's a culprit here, it's you, no him. If there's someone that deserve a bad rating, it's your brain, not the game.
It would be childish to give a bad rating to a game, simply because you suddenly discover that you were stupid and misunderstood what it was...

And sometimes, when the game is bad (from my pov) but can be fixed, I try to show the dev where he's done wrong. And to be honest, at that point I don't care much what the dev does with that info. My job there is done, can come back half a year later and see if anything's improved.

Your job is done ? Seriously ? Once again, who the fuck do you think you are ?

But what I'm saying is that you at this point look like someone who has a bit of a hard time taking critisizm.

Lol... I can tell you from first hand that it's absolutely not his case. I wasn't necessarily nice with him when, among other things, I said that, at this time, the dialogs of Cordia and Wilfred weren't accurate.
But contrarily to you, I did it face to face, in the game thread, offering him the possibility to respond, potentially explaining why I was wrong. I also explained why I thought that, giving him food for his thoughts. Up to him to come to the same conclusion than me or not.

P.S. Now look at how much effort I've spent into making a negative feedback for you

I really hope that you put more efforts in your reviews, because there weren't much in this feedback. It was just you expressing your opinion, without a single explanation of the reason behind this opinion. Therefore, it's a totally empty, and so useless, feedback.

 

[HopesGaming]

"not enough sex scenes". Well hello, you're making an adult game and promote it on a site with porn games. Your game is almost 2 years into the development, so of course people would expect seeing sex scenes. If such reviews bother you, why don't you post it in bold on the front page of the game thread, to make your point: "If you exect sex scenes, go play something else".

Actually 90% of my reviews are that and those that are not are just hiding it with using anything else as excuses (such as the story being cringe )

And yes, I am making an adult game. I have a FAQ at my patreon page which talks about the adult part (which is also posted here on the OP). So yes, it is on the front page.
And so what? Who are you to tell me that the game is supposed to be like what you say? What this site is supposed to be like? You say that "people would expect" yet people don't. It's just a few loud mouths that are a bit entitled that does.

You keep mentioning being bothered, angry, etc.
Why am I not allowed to comment on the people that comment on my game? Why am I not allowed to have an opinion without it being seen as being bothered?
98% of my comments and reviews are positive. The last 2% dosen't botter exactly due to that fact, but I will still allow myself to comment on it.
Are you bothered and angry when you write your reviews? Or even replying to me? I find your constant talk about it a bit weird tbh.

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Ye, what is wrong with this dude, he's actually having an opinion. Next month you come to me and say "Well this and that in your own game suck", and what can and will I do, if that's your opinion? I won't go on and say "well akchualy my XXX fans told me that it's all good, therefore you're just a dickhead and your opinion doesn't matter in the slightest, oh and also it's wrong".

I'm flabbergasted that you cannot see this point. Person A complains about content A. Content A is loved by 99% of the players.
Why in the world would that be classified as constructive feedback? He is complaining about something that is loved. Why should I change that?
Is he allowed for that weird opinion? Of course. Am I allowed to facepalm about it? Hell yes.

This looks like a strawman to me, to be honest. Because at least in your examples there was no such thing as an outright demand.

Is that the only thing you took from that whole example? You took one little sentence and then dismissed it all based on that?

Spoiler: The actual example

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Any rational being can see that this is about an entitled guy who dislikes something the rest likes and simply do not accept that they like it.

"wow it's 11/10 and whatever to get to 200 characters"

Now, THIS is a strawman argument if I ever saw one.
This also shows me why most of your comments on the forum are negative and the patern I talked about before.
You talk about not dismising low ratings, that maybe we devs should listen. That there are good points in it.
Yet, ask yourself, do you not do the exact same thing to positive reviews? I have yet to see you do anything but mock and downgrade people that give high ratings.
Yet, look at my reviews. The in-depth reviews that truly explains the game (and it's flaws) comes from high reviews. The low reviews are usually the ones that try their best to make a 200 sentence comment.

--------------

Overall, I think you have a problem accepting when someone likes something you don't.
Like when you complained about the sex in my game and how the forum is 'supposed' to be. F95zone is supposed to be whatever f95 tells it's to be. Who are you to say anything different?
You write complains like it's a fact and when you get called out for it you call it an opinion.

This is an opinion and I could, of course, be wrong but- you give off a self-important attitude. Something I have noticed with many people that take the same 'route' of negativity as you do. Like you think your view is the only view. Everyone else is just under you. This is heavily opinionated and not meant to offend.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Be supportive. That's my main point.

Totally agree. I wrote only one negative review, because the game was really, really bad ; there were, alas, nothing positive to say about this game. Yet, I ended it by saying that I gave two stars to the game, because its author tried. He failed, but at least he tried, and just this deserve the additional star ; by opposition to all the guys that complain and critic, but don't confront their opinion to the reality of game making.

But the fact that I wrote only one negative review doesn't meant that I disliked only one game. It's just that liking or disliking a game is nothing more than a question of personal taste. Therefore it's something that don't have it's place in a review. Especially when this taste is clearly not shared by the majority.
A review should be mostly technical. The CGs are bad ? Alright, say it, but explain why they are bad, say that they are all grainy, that there's meshes collision everywhere, that the lighting don't fit, or whatever is the reason.
It's the key word, what can effectively help both the author and the people that want to know if the game worth being played : give the reasons, not your opinion.

No authors will read a review saying that, by example, the writing is cheap, and be, "oh my god, he's right ! I need to take writing class as soon as possible". If he thought that he was a bad writer, he wouldn't have released his game... it's not more complicated than this. Therefore, why should he change his mind just because someone said it, especially when it's out of the blue and without explanations ?
But a review explaining that there's too much narration, that most of them just describe what is actually shown by the CG, by example, it's something else. The author will, or not, thought about it, replay a scene with this in mind. This can help him to improve, because it's something concrete. And the more supportive you'll be, while still being honest, the higher will be the chances that he will effectively thought about what you said ; "your game isn't bad, but neither it is good, and here's why", will always have a better impact than a, "this is so wrong, change it, dot".

 

[DawnCry]

Hello, as an ocassional reviewer I would like to offer my point of view over the things that are being said.

First let's talk about something that is being said quite a bit "if 90% of the people like something and 10% of the people critic it, you should ignore them", this is wrong in many ways and only correct in a single one. Overall that people are okay with something doesn't mean that it couldn't be better and that they may like it more if it got improved albeit they are okay with it at that point. As a developer I can understand the low-risk policies which are in the line of "if something works good enough, don't touch it!", but as a reviewer you have to point out that it could be better.

Let's take for example WVM, a game that is greatly liked and supported. I have seen quite a few reviews praising the writing but ironically when I played the game I was totally the opposite. I couldn't find the writing to be worse mainly because of many issues:

-At many points the game seems to introduce an element of conflict, it is cleared away soon enough, cheating with your best friend behing your girlfriend's back? doesn't matter, suddenly a male character that has a reputation of a cheater appears? he doesn't act, any point of conflict that could motivate the story is deactivated almost instantly.

Conflicts are useful to develop a story, in fact not only are they useful but they are a must because those are what motivates a MC to grow and become better, a lack of them is plainly a setting.

-Characters live to say how great the MC is, another heavy mistake when you write a story is making a flawless character, being perfect is boring to read, having a flaw helps a lot to make characters look more human.

-Lack of consequences to previous actions, if cheating behind my girlfriend's back, having sexual tension with my best friend and not having anything pushes me to the same ending, why give the choices in the first place?

Overall I find many reasons to say that the writing is flawed on that game, however that doesn't mean that people can't enjoy it. The developer doesn't have to change anything at all, however what I want to say is that even if a review isn't truly shared it doesn't mean it lacks valid points.

At the same time a review doesn't only have objective elements, but subjective too. Overall objective elements can be shared among people, if the story of WVM was a book, I don't think that many people would read it because overall it isn't interesting as a story, however as a setting and for the sex scenes you can absolutely enjoy it!. But focusing on subjective elements, they are always going to exist, in this thread another interesting topic are the "styles" and "personality" of a game, I do agree that games need to be unique in some way, but those elements must be reviewed too, and in fact perhaps the reviewer is that 1 in a million, the unique person that disliked it, but still, explaining why and pointing it out doesn't mean it's a bad review.

With all this the conclussions I would like to point out are:

-Reviewers must express their opinion and analyze the elements of the game to be useful.
-Rare opinions over something doesn't mean it's a bad review.
-A developer shouldn't be influenced by reviews, the point of a review is to help a developer see another person's point of view over the game.
-Albeit a reviewer should have an opinion, it shouldn't have a heavy impact over the objective elements of the game.

In the end what makes a difference between a good and a bad review is that it is based on valid/reasonable points, the only true effect that a review should have is that the developer can read it and consider multiple aspects of the game from a different point of view, that's all.

 

[desmosome]

For the love of god, please rate games on what they are trying to achieve and whether they succeed in that regard or not. Don't go into transformation game and complain about MC being a weak sissy. Don't go into NTR games and complain about getting cucked. Don't go into story driven games and complain about too much reading (unless the writing style is meandering or overly descriptive to a fault... or just bad writing lol). Don't go into side scroller and complain about no deep story.

Of course, its pretty hard for anyone to be 100% objective, but the review system is not a place for you to advocate for your fetishes or preference in games.

 

[HO_Dude]

You should really check back and make sure that's not the case because that would be really terrible to have rated it a one-star for a corrupted download.

Nah, he's literally fading every scene, just looked at the script. It helps that he didn't bother with doing a lot of them, but the 1/5 rating there is well-deserved, trust me. The game is simply very, very bad. I've stated my points in the review very clearly, and there's more to it than just fading. Terrible writing, lazy visuals (like writing *she smiled* instead of showing it on a picture), terrible execution of sandbox interface. I've never reviewed anything badly simply to attack the game. I do not take joy in "mocking" a game. However I'll never tolerate a lazy cash grab of a game, that we have a lot of here.

It was just you expressing your opinion, without a single explanation of the reason behind this opinion.

Disagree. I've explained my opinion, and it's not my fault that you've completely dismissed it.

There's a reason for this, and if you want to express another voice, you'll need more that your own biased (like you point yourself) opinion. You need to argument, you need to demonstrate.

Why, I demonstrated it. If you're dismissing it because you disagree — then why write all this, if you'll just keep disagreeing with anything I say?

Are you a best sellers author ? Are you an awarded scenarist ? I really doubt about this, mostly because you wouldn't write such things if you were.

Oh, the usual "do better" argument. Bruh, do you need to be a chef to tell whether you like the food or not? Do you need to be a writer to tell whether you like the book or not? Please, stop looking down on people who disagree with you. The fact that you're a modder or that you've been here longer than me doesn't make you any better (or worse) than me.

Wilfred is the Consigliere, he wouldn't talk in such familiar way, he wouldn't mock the MC when delivering his package, if he didn't saw him like a son. Among other things they express, Wilfred's dialogs show how much he care for the MC and how much he like him.

Why are you writing about Wilfred if I didn't even mention him, and I actually like the character? I've said it specifically about other characters and other dialogues. This example is completely irrelevant.

Mr High-Five (hope he'll not hear me say this) value the privacy of his identity more than everything else, except the family. There's a reason for this, and I suspect that he value it even more now that the MC is part of the family. You don't approach him, you don't touch him, and obviously you don't touch what he own.

What I dislike isn't what kind of a character he is, but how it is presented in the dialogue. You're missing the whole point again.
I won't reply to you here anymore, because unlike Hopes, this isn't even a discussion, it's just you saying "my opinion is better than yours, so fuck you". Which isn't wrong by itself — yes, you may have your opinion. But that's not an excuse to ignore the reasoning behind my opinion.

You keep mentioning being bothered, angry, etc

You're the only one who mentioned "angry" here. I just see how much you're complaining about guys who want more sex scenes, so yeah, it looks to me that you're bothered by it. The fact that you've even put that info in the faq says to me that you might just be bothered by it, no?

Why in the world would that be classified as constructive feedback?

And back to the start with that. Because he's not writing "this is just shit, everything is shit". But I guess, your definition of "constructive" is "aligning with the majority".

Any rational being can see that this is about an entitled guy who dislikes something the rest likes and simply do not accept that they like it.

And I have yet to see such reviews. There is only one that is close to such a state, and that's a guy who (from your words at least) attacked you directly. From what I've seen everywhere else on your reviews, it's just people expressing why they dislike it.

Yet, ask yourself, do you not do the exact same thing to positive reviews?

No, I'm saying that those 5/5s are as much "constructive" as the reviews with low ratings we've discussed. It's just the guy giving his opinion on the game, talking about "I liked/disliked it for this and that". Let's see some 5/5 from the latest ones:

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They're not more (or less, for that matter) constructive than the ones that say the same thing, but negatively. So tell me, will you actually get any useful info from these 2 reviews? I highly doubt it. But take me, for example. After playing a ton of adult games here, I have high standards for 5/5 review, and so far, I can't think of any game other than BaDIK that would get 5/5 from me. Because from my perspective, the game that gets 5/5 must be exceptionally good and well above the rest.
For example, I wouldn't rate my own game 5/5 at this point, because I clearly see some of its problems (mainly visuals) that I can't just outright improve. Yet I'm working a lot on making the dialogues, characters and story written as best as I can. I know that even if I do the absolute best job at it (which I won't, nobody's perfect), there will be people disliking it, and that's completely fine.

Anyway, I really didn't want to make this discussion personal or deal with the occasional fans like that guy above barging in and destroying me by facts and logic. Maybe it's better to move this particular discussion into PMs, if you want to keep going. I'm not gonna reply to you in this thread either, because it's actually close to being off-topic at this point.
But no matter what you might be thinking, I'm not interested in mocking or attacking your game. As I've said multiple times, I liked most aspects of it, and will probably use your own experience while making my VN, it's just that some elements are putting me off. You might dismiss it as before, but that won't change my opinion unless those actual parts are changed (which isn't going to happen).

 

[anne O'nymous]

If you're dismissing it because you disagree — then why write all this, if you'll just keep disagreeing with anything I say?

Why ? Because like you wrote yourself, "what should be hard to deny is that people can actually have opinions that differ from your own".
But strangely, almost all your answers in this thread demonstrate that you fail to apply this wisdom to yourself, defending your ground inch by inch, instead of questioning your position, just in case you could be wrong.

Oh, the usual "do better" argument. Bruh, do you need to be a chef to tell whether you like the food or not?

This thread, that you opened, talk about reviews and the way they should be wrote, therefore we aren't talking about liking and disliking.
The opinion of the reviewer doesn't matter, it's just the expression of his personal taste and, because of this, it rely on the less shared possible common point among the potential players, and so it's totally useless.
What is important in a review, what help those that will read it, whatever they are the dev or potential players, is facts ; so the opposite of opinions.

Please, stop looking down on people who disagree with you.

Once again, you failed to apply your own words regarding people who have a different opinion than you.
But well, it's interesting to see that devs should read you disagreeing as if you where a messiah, while people who disagree with what you say are being harsh with poor you.

The fact that you're a modder or that you've been here longer than me doesn't make you any better (or worse) than me.

Read again what I wrote. The fact that I absolutely don't think like that is clearly expressed in it.

What I dislike isn't what kind of a character he is, but how it is presented in the dialogue. You're missing the whole point again.

How can you write it, and not understand it ?
I directly addressed your point. Dialogs are part of the definition of a character, whatever it is his own ones, or others talking about him. Therefore, if you change the way he is presented in the dialogs, you change the character himself.
As for me talking about Wilfred, it's what is called "demonstrating" ; therefore, once again, I was directly addressing your point.

But that's not an excuse to ignore the reasoning behind my opinion.

To ignore something, this thing need to exist at first.
I don't say that you haven't thought about what you wrote, but that you kept the reasoning for yourself, which make what you wrote useless.

You're the only one who mentioned "angry" here. I just see how much you're complaining about guys who want more sex scenes, so yeah, it looks to me that you're bothered by it. The fact that you've even put that info in the faq says to me that you might just be bothered by it, no?

And what if Hopes is bothered because people are complaining about something explained in the FAQ since the start of the game ? Because, well...
At what time of your reflection have you dismissed this possibility ?

 

[HopesGaming]

...because it's actually close to being off-topic at this point...

I wouldn't say that it's of-topic. You created this thread to discuss the different aspects of reviewing games and with heavy emphasis on disliking good reviews and enforcing bad reviews.
All the discussions have only been on that so far.

You're the only one who mentioned "angry" here. I just see how much you're complaining about guys who want more sex scenes, so yeah, it looks to me that you're bothered by it. The fact that you've even put that info in the faq says to me that you might just be bothered by it, no?

You have a habit to pinpoint one sentence/word and then use that to neglect the whole point. Like the rest of the text doesn't exist.
What does it matter what word is used? The point doesn't change.

So I guess I have to add it again;

You keep mentioning being bothered. (Removed the word angry and etc.)
Why am I not allowed to comment on the people that comment on my game? Why am I not allowed to have an opinion without it being seen as being bothered?
98% of my comments and reviews are positive. The last 2% doesn't bother exactly due to that fact, but I will still allow myself to comment on it.
Are you bothered when you write your reviews? Or even replying to me? I find your constant talk about it a bit weird tbh.

I added it to my FAQ at my patreon to be as transparent as possible to all the players of my game. To tell them what to expect of the game and why it is as it is. It's as simple as that.

And me complaining about people complaining about wanting more sex? Yea, of course. Because I think it's a stupid thing to say. Who are they to tell me what I can and cannot do? My project, my rules. Like it? Great? Don't like it? Also fine, but don't expect it to change no matter how much you whine.

And back to the start with that. Because he's not writing "this is just shit, everything is shit". But I guess, your definition of "constructive" is "aligning with the majority".

That's not how it works.
Constructive for me is someone telling me a technical flaw that I can solve. That is constructive.
For example, at the start, my game lacked a proper guide for people to know what to do after a quest. I read the constructive feedback. And agreed with it. Then it was added.

There next there are opinion based feedbacks. Those simply tell me what they like and dislike. Here you have to be very awake and notice what is valid and what is not. If the majority of the people dislike an element of your story then you have to be realistic and ask yourself as a dev "I like this but most don't. Should I change it?"
In most cases, it probably should. That is constructive feedback since it is a real issue as many share it.

If a few loudmouths voice their opinions on something that the majority doesn't like you as a dev have to as yourself "Most of my players like this, I like this. Should I change it?"
The answer is an obvious no. It's not very constructive as the people's opinion is obviously not something that is an issue.

NOW, does that mean they are not allowed to share their opinion? Of course, they are allowed. But my point was, as a dev, it is useless information.
And that is why I wrote in my first post that in my eyes it's just people venting out their frustration that the game is not made the way they like.

Again, again, again. They are allowed to have that opinion. I am allowed to dislike that opinion.
And it's a fact that it is not constructive. It's just venting their frustration.

And I have yet to see such reviews. There is only one that is close to such a state, and that's a guy who (from your words at least) attacked you directly. From what I've seen everywhere else on your reviews, it's just people expressing why they dislike it.

Read the above. Just because their opinion is 'I dislike this' does not automatically mean it's constructive. A weird way looking at it tbh.
I wonder, do you actually know what constructive means? This is not meant to offend but a genuine question.

having or intended to have a useful or beneficial purpose.
(google search)

How are any of the 'I dislike this' reviews anything beneficial for me? I can't use it for anything. If they dislike something that is technically broken/wrong then it is constructive. But they are disliking stuff that is liked. I can't use that in any useful way.

No, I'm saying that those 5/5s are as much "constructive" as the reviews with low ratings we've discussed. It's just the guy giving his opinion on the game, talking about "I liked/disliked it for this and that". Let's see some 5/5 from the latest ones:

Come on, dude... Are you for real?
Let's make it like this instead. Find the reviews you think are the most 'constructive' and I show you some that I find are constructive. Let's compare them.

Spoiler: Review by Zippity

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Spoiler: Review by kuraiken

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And honestly. These were just two fast ones. There are so many more in-depth reviews like those. Talk about the positive as well as the negative.
Find me a negative review that has the same in-depth as these two.

It's a bit of a BS thing to say that the bad reviews are as constructive as these reviews. 1. they are not constructive as all, 2. they are just venting their anger and hence they rarely are more than a few sentences.

I know that even if I do the absolute best job at it (which I won't, nobody's perfect), there will be people disliking it, and that's completely fine.

Agree. But the point was never if it's fine to share their opinion or not. Rather, it was about if it's constructive or not. If a dev should focus on it or not.
And, unless the game is doing very poorly, then no, why should a successful game destroy itself due to a few individuals.
Lockheart already gave an example of what could happen if you listen to a low reviewer.

After playing a ton of adult games here, I have high standards for 5/5 review, and so far, I can't think of any game other than BaDIK that would get 5/5 from me. Because from my perspective, the game that gets 5/5 must be exceptionally good and well above the rest.
For example, I wouldn't rate my own game 5/5 at this point,

Nothing wrong with what you're saying here. BUT, it is merely your way of reviewing and seeing how it is. Doesn't not mean it is necessarily the right way (or the only way)
Other people have different standards for what they give 5 stars for.

But BaDIK is a 5/5 that is true.

Anyway, I really didn't want to make this discussion personal

I don't see this as personal at all. I am civil. And you are civil.
Just discussing the matter at hand. This is the General Discussions.
You made a thread here wanting to discuss reviews. Even asked to hear from devs. I'm kind of a dev. I'm sharing my view, heh.

I'm not gonna reply to you in this thread either,

Sure thing Thanks for the discussion.
Peace.

 

[Lockheart]

Nah, he's literally fading every scene, just looked at the script.

Thanks for double checking. Yes, that would be frustrating. I didn't dissolve my scenes when I should have in the beginning and it was dizzying seeing the images pop onto the screen one after the other.

However I'll never tolerate a lazy cash grab of a game, that we have a lot of here.

There certainly has to be a high level of passion for you work in this industry. Most people aren't willing to take the time to learn and grow, they think you can jump right into something like this. It's a skill like any other, it takes time to become exceptional. If you're looking to make easy money, this certainly isn't the way.

I keep falling into the trap of wanting to try something that other people are doing. By the time I get into it, the market is flooded and there's no room for new blood. No matter how good my games might be in the future, I'll still just be a drop in the ocean here. But, I've enjoyed creating these stories so much that, for now, just writing them is enough for me. I enjoy it.

I hope you do create your own game and spend a few months with it on this site. I think you'll see things a bit differently when it's your own gaming. But, maybe not. Putting my work on here certainly humbled me! Haha.

 

[HO_Dude]

I hope you do create your own game and spend a few months with it on this site. I think you'll see things a bit differently when it's your own gaming. But, maybe not.

Yes, this might change my attitude when I'm at the receiving end. Because that's normal.
But I intend to make a game that I'd personally given the highest review possible. Because, yes, my own opinion should be the most important to me.

Most people aren't willing to take the time to learn and grow, they think you can jump right into something like this.

Some people make it obvious. For example, there's this new game that even without having anything significant story-wise (<2k words on 1st release is meh) already has about 4 or 5 crowdfunding accounts. With such an approach, it becomes pretty obvious, and even though we're not supposed to mention this in reviews, I believe sometimes it's worth mentioning.

 

[Deleted member 229118]

I rarely review games.
The mood rarely strikes me.

When i do leave a review i try to keep it short and to the point.
Focusing on facts and not opinion.

For example:
There was this one game where the main character just kept going on and on about how much of an evil psycho he was.
It annoyed me so much i left a review about how the game focused too much on the main character being evil(and stupid evil at that).
Complaining at the lack of careful manipulation.
Being evil for the sake of being evil is boring.

Or that one game that i enjoyed by coudnt recommend because of the trigger hunting(i really hate trigger hunting).
Or that game that was an example of guild darn it.

Did i leave a postive review for stationmaster or the lab rats serries?
I probley shoud there among the best games on this site.

Basicly when i review i will explain what the game does without sugar coating it.
I will praise the good and condem the bad.
Likewise i will not hold a quick jerk of game to the same standerds as a great game like stationmaster.

For example imperial gatekeeper is more fun then it has any right to be.
I shoud probley leave a good review.
Meaby later when i feel like it.

 

[vneotpolemus]

A bit of a tangent, but when I'm reading reviews for a game I haven't played I usually focus on the 4 and 3 star ratings.

Since I stick to the first couple of page of the weighted ratings list, I assume that the devs are doing something right and the 1 and 2 star ratings are going to be overly subjective. Some 5 star reviews are often the most comprehensive and informative (shocking discovery: people are most willing to write about things they love), but its hard to tell the difference between "game genuinely is incredible" and "game hit my buttons so I can't see the flaws" until you actually play it for yourself.