VN You can't change the choices you make

[VMiller]

You can only choose a story branches if you start the game from the beginning. When you load a save, the previous choice in the menu will be used.

I'll warn you right away, the game has a global plot that hardly ever changes because it's based on a literary work. The choice menu will affect events, dialogues, and relationships with other characters.

There are no good or bad endings, no choices will cause the game to end prematurely and the MC to die. If you've been spying on your mother or sister in the shower, you won't get kicked out of the house as a dirty pervert, but then there will be some consequences, not necessarily bad ones.

We're thinking of doing this to increase player involvement, because under the normal system players are completely irresponsible about the possibility of choice, because you can jerk off to your mother in the shower, then load the save and continue playing the role of a person of high morals with impunity.

 

[chainedpanda]

Personally?, I'd absolutely hate it. While I understand the reasoning for this, it would drive me insane. I can be pretty indecisive when it comes to games with multiple paths. Especially those with multiple paths that don't go against my preferences. This causes me to keep numerous saves on choices I perceive as 'important' and I reload those saves fairly frequently.

Furthermore, I also tend to restart games frequently as well. Partially because of my indecisiveness, but also between updates because I forget everything once enough time passes. This does cause me to lose interest in many games that I otherwise would have enjoyed.

So, if you took away my ability to save scum, plus my inability to just play a game like a normal human being, I may just end up going insane if I attempted to force myself to play a game. This is exactly the same reason why I don't really bother with non-renpy engines due to the lack of rollback features.

 

[TheMagicalGurl]

You are nullifying the reason to make choices by denying later choices any agency. IMHO gotta let the players play. Let them decide and adapt.

 

[Meaning Less]

In a VN? Not the best idea, because that's just core of what most VN players expect to explore all paths.

Now if it was an actual game then I wouldn't mind that, but be aware that blocking features often pisses people off, instead you should approach this differently by for instance offering a full auto-save feature that makes sure the game is always saved instead. That's how games like dark souls and many others approach this, if there was a manual saving system people would not die and deal with the consequences of death.

 

[Metal Panic]

no choices will cause the game to end prematurely and the MC to die.

because under the normal system players are completely irresponsible about the possibility of choice, because you can jerk off to your mother in the shower, then load the save and continue playing the role of a person of high morals with impunity.

Oooooooo, I hate that so much! those cheap choices that lead to a game over... gtfo with that. I'll leave the game overs for non AVN games.

You should say "some players" because you don't know each single player, don't know every type of game they like/play, and you don't know what they are actually doing in said game. You sound like you have beef with those certain players you are talking about or is this something you do while you play?

This is exactly the same reason why I don't really bother with non-renpy engines due to the lack of rollback features.

I hate Unity for this exact reason lol plenty of ways to play a game like the OP wants.

 

[VMiller]

Personally?, I'd absolutely hate it. While I understand the reasoning for this, it would drive me insane. I can be pretty indecisive when it comes to games with multiple paths. Especially those with multiple paths that don't go against my preferences. This causes me to keep numerous saves on choices I perceive as 'important' and I reload those saves fairly frequently.

We thought about it. We don't plan to do any complicated branches. Each menu has a maximum of two choices. We don't plan to make a lot of branches. It will be possible to see all the scenes from two walkthroughs.

 

[VMiller]

Not the best idea, because that's just core of what most VN players expect to explore all paths.

What prevents our method from exploring all paths?

 

[Meaning Less]

What prevents our method from exploring all paths?

In VNs manual saves are important because people often don't want to skip through tons of dialogues again just to change their last few choices for instance. Even with the skip feature you can bore players very easily by disabling that.

Now like I mentioned it would make a lot of sense for games that have gameplay elements and you don't want players breaking those mechanics by savescumming, that's why those games use checkpoints or autosaves.

So unless you have very good reasons to remove manual saving it is better to leave it enabled, and there is hardly any valid reason for it in a VN where the only challenge is going through dialogues.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You can only choose a story branches if you start the game from the beginning. When you load a save, the previous choice in the menu will be used.

Two possibilities:
Either it's a Ren'Py game, and I'll hate it because it prevent me to have parallel playthrough if I want, or it's not a Ren'Py game, and I'll hate it because it will make me waste my time having to pass through what I already know.

The only AAA game I can think about that used this kind of game mechanism is Fallout New Vegas, to prevent you to cheat when playing in the casino. It was limited to a single and really particular situation, yet overriding this was one of the first mod to appear for the game.

I'll warn you right away, the game has a global plot that hardly ever changes because it's based on a literary work.
The choice menu will affect events, dialogues, and relationships with other characters.

So, you want to make a game that many players will want to explore, whatever because they play to fap and want to see all the lewd, or because they are interested by the story and want to see all the possible evolution for each characters. And instead of doing it in such way that it will be a real enjoyment for them, you decide to chose the way that will make it a pain in their ass.

 

[VMiller]

In VNs manual saves are important because people often don't want to skip through tons of dialogues again just to change their last few choices for instance. Even with the skip feature you can bore players very easily by disabling that.

It doesn't work. Because often in VN the wrong choice and its consequence often separates a large number of scenes and dialogues that the player has to skip anyway.

 

[VMiller]

Either it's a Ren'Py game, and I'll hate it because it prevent me to have parallel playthrough if I want, or it's not a Ren'Py game, and I'll hate it because it will make me waste my time having to pass through what I already know.

Parallel is not intersecting. How many games can you name in which parallel playthroughs are possible? It can only be games with a lot of freedom of action, like Minectaft.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Parallel is not intersecting.

Parallel stories are not intersecting, but I'm talking about parallel playthroughs. Therefore, precisely what you want to prevent, a player exploring the possibilities that hide between one behavior or another.
And, of course, I don't talk here about what you can see if you decide to peek at the mother in the shower. I talk about real choices, those that are relevant and have consequences ; what you said that some will be. Therefore, what happen because you decided to peek at the mother. What giving a pervert behavior to the MC imply on a long term regarding his relation with the other characters, and how those characters will behave due to this. Compared to the parallel playthrough where you'll decide that he'll behave like a good son would.

But the fact that, in your answer, you focused on "parallel", instead of "playthrough", make me wonder what you expect the choices to be in your game.
I mean, you said that the story itself will not change, the choices only impacting the relation you can have with a character. Therefore, parallel playthroughs will obviously be intersecting... This every time that the game will not focus solely on the said character.

How many games can you name in which parallel playthroughs are possible?

Ataegina, who will you follow ?
Bad Memories, male, or female ?
Buried Desires, will you be dominant or a lover ? God there's surely more than one thousand games like that.
Fetish Locator, sub or dom ? Love or NTR ?
Heavy Five, too many possibilities here to list them all.
Inner Growth, follow the light, or the darkness ?
Karlsson's Gambit, what sister do you want to be near too, and what K rank do you want to have ?
My Girlfriend & my Futa Grandma, what point of view do you want to see ?
Pale Carnation, what girl do you want to favour ? And for Veronica do you submit or not ?
Shattered, here again, too many possibilities to list them all.
Vinland, warrior or thinker ?

Do I have to continue ? Because I can continue.

And among all those games, only the first twos imply limited changes ; significant but limited in their impact. For all the others, the choices are relevant both in short and long term, changing either the character arc, or the whole story, when not both. Fetish Locator even have 18 radically different ending depending on those choices.

It can only be games with a lot of freedom of action, like Minectaft.

Okay, so you want to make a game, but clearly looks like you have no idea how games works. This despite everything that people told you in this thread. :/
Never heard about Chose Your Own Adventure books ? It's what you are saying you'll do, but clearly not what you are talking about in your answers.

While it play an important part when choosing what game to play, the story isn't what will effectively make the game interesting. Most players will be way more interested by the characters development, than with the story they evolve in ; the story is what make you continue to play, while the characters development is what will make you enjoy playing.

 

[VMiller]

his every time that the game will not focus solely on the said character.

You are very perceptive. There will be several protagonists in the game. Each one has its own storyline. As shown in shows like The Walking Dead.

 

[Metal Panic]

there will be several protagonists in the game. Each one has its own storyline. As shown in shows like The Walking Dead.

Multiple Protagonists? ewww! many people do not like games that have "Multiple Protagonists" just a little FYI.

 

[VMiller]

Okay, so you want to make a game, but clearly looks like you have no idea how games works.

You are very perceptive. There will be several protagonists in the game. Each one has its own storyline. As shown in shows like The Walking Dead.

Okay, so you want to make a game, but clearly looks like you have no idea how games works. This despite everything that people told you in t

I just want to do it the way it's done in video games. There we never make saves after every selection menu, and in online games there is no such option at all.

I've played many games, some several times, and only used saves to continue it from the interrupted point. If I want to replay the RPG differently, I'll start it from the beginning, not from some plot fork.

 

[VMiller]

Multiple Protagonists? ewww! many people do not like games that have "Multiple Protagonists" just a little FYI.

In fact, it will be several games in one. A few episodes of one protagonist until some key event, then a few episodes of the second and third protagonist's stories, then back to the first, and so on. I get it, the frequent switching from one protagonist to another spoils the story.

The protagonists are only connected through secondary characters, so there will be no conflict of interest.

This makes it possible to create a game in which the plot does not come to a standstill after the main character fucks all the girls in all positions (as happens in almost all VN).

 

[anne O'nymous]

I just want to do it the way it's done in video games. There we never make saves after every selection menu, and in online games there is no such option at all.

We also never are forced to restart the whole game if we want to come back on our decision and load a save made at a crucial point ten hours ago. It's something that have been sent to the trash can around thirty years ago ; Skyrim save system even explicitly address this issue by making this kind of behavior easier.
As for online games, they just don't apply here, following a radically different paradigm.

I've played many games, some several times, and only used saves to continue it from the interrupted point.

I've played tons of games, never really stopping since I started when I was around 15yo, therefore more than 35 years ago. And I had to use saves a lot, when they appeared, because a game without a challenge isn't really interesting, and a challenge where you can only succeed isn't a challenge.
Paradoxically, the reason why I use saves with adult games is the opposite. Globally I play them for their pure entertaining value, and therefore don't want to be bothered by the challenge that can hide behind a badly handled choice system.

If I want to replay the RPG differently, I'll start it from the beginning, not from some plot fork.

Breaking news: Near to nobody replay an adult game ; at least unless it's a real game (platformer, scroller, etc.).
Story-like games have no real replayable values ; once you know the story, you know it and the game itself lost a big part of its interest. Replaying only for the lewd scenes you missed being relatively useless due to the tons of games available and the ~500 new games started each year. Reason why there's so many people relying massively on the save system and/or parallel playthrough.

 

[VMiller]

Breaking news: Near to nobody replay an adult game

Absolutely agree, so the ability to roll back to the menu selection is not necessary. The player won't lose much by not seeing Maxim fuck Lisa in the ass on the park bench on the first playthrough, but instead she gives him a blowjob. No one can be surprised by sex scenes these days.
But here we have a real choice, anal or blowjob.

 

[desmosome]

Presumably there will be a save file somewhere that people can back up and save scum if they really wanted. But ironman playthrough can be interesting if there is real gameplay elements involved. For the usual VN, no thanks.

 

[Meaning Less]

It doesn't work. Because often in VN the wrong choice and its consequence often separates a large number of scenes and dialogues that the player has to skip anyway.

Not necessarily, there are many types of VNs out there.

Let me give you a more practical example, here is a flowchart for katawa shoujo:

This can illustrate the importance of manual saving, because as you can see there are major and minor branches, half of the game initially is more linear. So a well places savepoint would be enough to see all major branches without replaying the first half of the game every time. And similarly a save near the end of each minor branch would allow players to see different endings without replaying the second half of the game.

Maybe you never played many complex VNs but the most effect way to search for missed content is hardly to start from 0 but instead to do a reverse search and keep track of choices that result in bigger changes with manual saving, that's why manual saving is a core element of VNs.

Now sure I agree with you that when it comes to kinetic novels or very simple visual novels where the choices barely affect anything saving become a more optional feature, but in those cases people also aren't replaying the game anyways so locking them from manual saving achieves nothing either way.