Why pick one over the other

[Lewd Asshole]

The amount of games running on an engine doesn't correlate with quality of said engine, but with its ease of use.

That's why you have so much Ren'Py and RPGM shovelware and that's also why so many of those games are unworthy of being fapped to. The people using them simply are bad at making games, they've making it on those engines specifically because they simply aren't skilled/knowleadgeable enough to use a "proper" engine. Add that to the abysmal standards of patreon whales and you get what we have today: tons and tons of low effort, stock assetted, v0.0.0.0.1 pre-alpha games featuring FOTM character and whatever fetish is popular at the moment.

Easy to use engines then get associated with that crap and people start avoiding games running on them. Since RPGM's been around for longer, more people are wary of it. Kind of same with sugarcube open world grind simulators. Give it some more time and people will start avoiding Ren'Py too.

 

[CuriousWonder]

I've never had RenPy freeze on me. Out of the dozens of RenPy games I've played, I've had a few pop up with an error screen, but that's always been a coding mistake by the dev, and not something actually going wrong with the engine. If all RenPy games are having an issue for you, it would seem like something is wrong with your system. On the whole, RenPy games are much more stable that games from other engines. Very few engines will let you BACK UP from an error screen and continue playing or using the software.

People use RenPy because it is lightweight, easy to code for, and includes dialogue support, saving and loading support, and menu support immediately out of the box. Those aren't small things. Try coding dialogue and saving and loading from scratch in an engine like Unity and you'll find it's a non-trivial task.

A few other reasons for RenPy:
- It lets a dev easily create Windows, Mac, AND Linux builds of their game without rewriting code.
- It has a ton of support and tutorials specifically for making adult games, because it was developed from the start to make "Renai" (Love) games. That's where the Ren in RenPy comes from.
- It is feature complete from the start for visual novels, but because it is written in Python it is also easy to extend and code advanced features into. Python is (arguably, but most will agree) the easiest programming language to learn too.
- Making a game in RenPy makes it easy to mod for the end users. You'll notice that almost every game on F95 that has a fan made patch or addon is a RenPy game.
- RenPy is made to run on some truly ancient (in computer terms) hardware. Obviously this depends on the developer and what they do with the engine, but if they are just using the basic features of RenPy the games should run on anything made in the last decade. And there has been a real focus lately on making it possible to run in a browser too.
- RenPy is free. Like totally free. No fees. No licenses. No revenue sharing. And the creator is very available. When RenPy devs have an issue they can usually get word back or a fix from the dev (PyTom) in less than a day. Again, for free. It's nuts.


As for Unity, it can be great in the hands of a skilled developer, but for beginners it is often overkill and easy for them to screw up. You need to either use plugins or code a lot of features from scratch, C# is not as easy for new programmers to learn as Python, and often there is NO REASON to use Unity for a game.

If the dev's game is a traditional VN that is going to use the normal talking sprites over backgrounds with dialogue and animations . . . using Unity for that is like killing a fly using a cannon rather than a flyswatter. You're expending more effort, energy, and resources for the same result in the end.


I've enjoyed some RPGM games, but I tend to avoid them for the most part, for a few reasons:

- Resolution and performance issues. I play games on a 1440p monitor and with most RPGM games I have to do one of two things - either squint at the tiny game window to try to make out the text and details of a game a dev thought it was okay to release an 800x600 version of in the second decade of the 21st century - or go fullscreen and deal with the blurry mess and inexplicable tanking of performance and screen tearing.

The RPG Maker devs just NOW, in 2022, have provided a native 1080p resolution support. A majority of PC gamers since at least 2010 were using 1080p as their primary screen resolution, but I guess the RPG Maker devs are only a decade and a quarter late.

- The poor game design the engine encourages. RPG Maker is made for making RPGs, and that means devs trying to make adult games out of it often don't do enough to change their games for adult gaming. They'll make sexier sprites, or enemies, but neglect to actually give a valid reason for roaming an entire game world to do sex stuff in. And they'll make that game world too larger and too empty, so the player is running from place to place having to hunt down sexy content, rather than making that the focus of the game.

It turns the RPGM games into walking simulators half the time, which wouldn't be bad in itself if interesting things were happening on those walks, but there rarely is.

- If I want an adult-themed RPG, RenPy devs often do that better anyway. They boil down the experience to the essentials - click on the map to go where you want. Sexy scene after sexy scene, no walking between NPCs. Look at Sakura Dungeon - that's a dungeon crawler done entirely in RenPy and it does RPGing better than any RPG Maker game.

Wow. Thanks, that was really in-depth & in sighful. Which is also good incase a would be dev stumbles across this thread. Although there is one you left out that I'm still curious about. What about HTML games. Like Become someone, college daze, Whore of Babylon, etc. All good games that run well and I've very rarely come access ba major error in that engine

 

[ZephyrCloack]

I'll second on the fact that RPGM more often than not is a walking simulator and some circles end up being pointless time drains, who here didn't face a forest labyrinth that you have to follow a set path that visually exploits on the fact that you can't actually see your sprite and sometimes backtrack without enemies to guide you.

I don't have issues with any particular engine, i might experience unresolved bugs so human fault not engine fault.

Common occurrences i tend to witness:

RPGM - unintentional walking on walls

Renpy - images fail to load and coding errors.

Unity - from prolonged loading to partial screen cut and more coding errors.

HTML - i wish it was standard to place in settings a font selector, text size, font color options and perhaps a night mode plz.

Spoiler: puppy eyes

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I rarely face stuff worse than that, though i have faced worse than that as well.


Edit: Removal of a poor attempt of a joke sorry hysepReC

 

[woody554]

at first renpy sort of feels like it should be easy to get in, and if you restrict yourself to the absolute basics of VN functionality that's also true. show image, write dialogue straight into the code, use renpy's menu-tag for choices. done. it couldn't be much simpler and you can go a looong way with just that. I've never seen any stability issues with renpy. people using it wrong is not a stability issue but a design flaw.

on the con-side, everything beyond that though requires learning 3 new renpy-languages (renpy script, atl, screen language) which are all confusingly similar with random and poorly documented differences you'll keep tripping on endlessly. and you'll end up having to code around renpy anyway which raises the question of why use renpy in the first place if it requires using a real programming language anyway. it's the one thing renpy was designed for, to replace the need to code everything from ground up in a real programming language. could've just made everything yourself and you'd NEVER be handcuffed by things like not being able to make an animation loop tell when it's completed.

but there's a third significant issue which I guess could be described as platform name recognition. by which I don't even mean players know a VN is done in renpy, but they can SEE it. it's the familiar VN format they've grown used to so they'll always pick it if given a choice. other people will only pick unity games and a third group will always pick RPGM. they like it, they're used to it, and they're not interested in experimenting.

so if you wanna write for the VN crowd you use renpy. with anything else it's an uphill battle and you'll first have to prove yourself before people will take a chance on you. and a lot of people will never give you a chance.


RPGM. the problem is it's making 1980s games. there's absolutely no good reason to make 80s games in 2023 UNLESS you like the retro vibe. and some people do. RPGM has its own crowd and they love it. others hate it, and it has nothing to do with rollback etc.

 

[Glib_Gentleman]

Although there is one you left out that I'm still curious about. What about HTML games. Like Become someone, college daze, Whore of Babylon, etc. All good games that run well and I've very rarely come access ba major error in that engine

HTML games are fine. I like playing them.

Since I like text-based games, some of my favorite games are HTML games, and they are a great example of doing a lot with a little.

The main thing they suffer from is poor UI design, but they don't have too. Bloat can also be a real problem with HTML games, where devs can try and do too much coding-wise in an HTML game and slow performance to a crawl with unoptimized code and processes running.

You also have the danger long term of browser updates breaking an HTML game.

at first renpy sort of feels like it should be easy to get in, and if you restrict yourself to the absolute basics of VN functionality that's also true. show image, write dialogue straight into the code, use renpy's menu-tag for choices. done. it couldn't be much simpler and you can go a looong way with just that. I've never seen any stability issues with renpy. people using it wrong is not a stability issue but a design flaw.

on the con-side, everything beyond that though requires learning 3 new renpy-languages (renpy script, atl, screen language) which are all confusingly similar with random and poorly documented differences you'll keep tripping on endlessly. and you'll end up having to code around renpy anyway which raises the question of why use renpy in the first place if it requires using a real programming language anyway. it's the one thing renpy was designed for, to replace the need to code everything from ground up in a real programming language. could've just made everything yourself and you'd NEVER be handcuffed by things like not being able to make an animation loop tell when it's completed.

I don't think it's fair to say that RenPy was designed to replace the need to code everything. RenPy has never claimed to be a WYSIWYG editor. From RenPy's own marketing blurb:

" The easy to learn script language allows anyone to efficiently write large visual novels, while its Python scripting is enough for complex simulation games. "

I think it makes it pretty clear that you'll be scripting. And yeah, it has a few things to learn like ATL, etc. But RenPy scripting shares all the same parts between ATL, screen language, and the game scripting for a reason, because once you learn it, you'll be able to mix and match as needed. And that's all you need to learn to make a VN with it. But yeah, if you learn Python and mix THAT in - you can do damn near anything: look at games like Sakura Dungeon, Loren the Amazon Princess, Doki Doki Literature Club, or Summertime Saga.

I'll agree that the official documentation for RenPy kind of sucks (it is written in programmer-speak for other programmers), but there are whole Youtube channels that will teach you RenPy in a weekend. There is a sub-Reddit, a Discord, and a whole forum of people that will help you learn RenPy too. And just FYI, Chat GPT will TEACH the SHIT out of RenPy to you if you ask, with code examples and explanations.

As someone who started learning to program with C++ in Borlund's C++ Builder in 1997 (and crashed and burned because, OH GOD, teaching yourself C++ alone from a book was not easy), and have worked with Flash, HTML, Unreal, and Unity, RenPy is by FAR the easiest way to make a game I've ever come across.

Yeah, you'll trip yourself up at times. You'll hit dead-ends or problems. But that's game development in general. That's the experience you'll have with ANY game engine. Part of being a developer is learning how to troubleshoot the inevitable problems that will pop up. (And RenPy makes it easier for you too, because those ERROR screens tell you EXACTLY how and where you screwed up in your code.)

 

[CuriousWonder]

HTML games are fine. I like playing them.

Since I like text-based games, some of my favorite games are HTML games, and they are a great example of doing a lot with a little.

The main thing they suffer from is poor UI design, but they don't have too. Bloat can also be a real problem with HTML games, where devs can try and do too much coding-wise in an HTML game and slow performance to a crawl with unoptimized code and processes running.

You also have the danger long term of browser updates breaking an HTML game.


I don't think it's fair to say that RenPy was designed to replace the need to code everything. RenPy has never claimed to be a WYSIWYG editor. From RenPy's own marketing blurb:

" The easy to learn script language allows anyone to efficiently write large visual novels, while its Python scripting is enough for complex simulation games. "

I think it makes it pretty clear that you'll be scripting. And yeah, it has a few things to learn like ATL, etc. But RenPy scripting shares all the same parts between ATL, screen language, and the game scripting for a reason, because once you learn it, you'll be able to mix and match as needed. And that's all you need to learn to make a VN with it. But yeah, if you learn Python and mix THAT in - you can do damn near anything: look at games like Sakura Dungeon, Loren the Amazon Princess, Doki Doki Literature Club, or Summertime Saga.

I'll agree that the official documentation for RenPy kind of sucks (it is written in programmer-speak for other programmers), but there are whole Youtube channels that will teach you RenPy in a weekend. There is a sub-Reddit, a Discord, and a whole forum of people that will help you learn RenPy too. And just FYI, Chat GPT will TEACH the SHIT out of RenPy to you if you ask, with code examples and explanations.

As someone who started learning to program with C++ in Borlund's C++ Builder in 1997 (and crashed and burned because, OH GOD, teaching yourself C++ alone from a book was not easy), and have worked with Flash, HTML, Unreal, and Unity, RenPy is by FAR the easiest way to make a game I've ever come across.

Yeah, you'll trip yourself up at times. You'll hit dead-ends or problems. But that's game development in general. That's the experience you'll have with ANY game engine. Part of being a developer is learning how to troubleshoot the inevitable problems that will pop up. (And RenPy makes it easier for you too, because those ERROR screens tell you EXACTLY how and where you screwed up in your code.)

at first renpy sort of feels like it should be easy to get in, and if you restrict yourself to the absolute basics of VN functionality that's also true. show image, write dialogue straight into the code, use renpy's menu-tag for choices. done. it couldn't be much simpler and you can go a looong way with just that. I've never seen any stability issues with renpy. people using it wrong is not a stability issue but a design flaw.

on the con-side, everything beyond that though requires learning 3 new renpy-languages (renpy script, atl, screen language) which are all confusingly similar with random and poorly documented differences you'll keep tripping on endlessly. and you'll end up having to code around renpy anyway which raises the question of why use renpy in the first place if it requires using a real programming language anyway. it's the one thing renpy was designed for, to replace the need to code everything from ground up in a real programming language. could've just made everything yourself and you'd NEVER be handcuffed by things like not being able to make an animation loop tell when it's completed.

but there's a third significant issue which I guess could be described as platform name recognition. by which I don't even mean players know a VN is done in renpy, but they can SEE it. it's the familiar VN format they've grown used to so they'll always pick it if given a choice. other people will only pick unity games and a third group will always pick RPGM. they like it, they're used to it, and they're not interested in experimenting.

so if you wanna write for the VN crowd you use renpy. with anything else it's an uphill battle and you'll first have to prove yourself before people will take a chance on you. and a lot of people will never give you a chance.


RPGM. the problem is it's making 1980s games. there's absolutely no good reason to make 80s games in 2023 UNLESS you like the retro vibe. and some people do. RPGM has its own crowd and they love it. others hate it, and it has nothing to do with rollback etc.

Thank you. You guys really have helped me understand these and just go clarify I honestly just play whatever catchers my interest. I really don't have a preferred engine but I was always kind of curious why people would pick certain engines and the weird hate that I've seen RPGM. Like it's not perfect, but it has it's enjoyable games. Now I hope just hope that if some is browsing the forums to see what engine to use they might spot your comments

 

[anne O'nymous]

So why pick Ren'Py since it seems to break more often then other engines.

Because it in fact break way less often than other engines.

You see more "hey it don't works" for Ren'Py games, not because it break more often, but because it's more robust and can works even when there's small errors. Something that will not happen with other game engines, that will break more easily because they aren't error proof.
And this lead to the answer to your question: Ren'Py is more used because you can be a total idiot who absolutely don't know what he's doing, and still have a game that will works for 95% of the players.

 

[Deleted member 5460870]

Did I make a bad game?

 

[CuriousWonder]

Did I make a bad game?

I would never say that. I might offer criticism but I'd never claim a game is bad, if even if there's a key mechanics that I don't like then a Dev could always make a sequel