Why is Man of The House so popular ?

Faerin

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Game Developer
Jul 14, 2017
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Hey guys, I totally missed this thread and just saw the mention from @pornpanda (thanks mate).

@darthseduction I missed your post directed towards me, sorry for that!
Of course I will reply to it (and any others in this tread), I always appreciate it when someone takes the time to provide feedback.

Right now I have 6 pages of (pretty long) posts to go through and an update to finish for tomorrow, so it will probably have to wait until the weekend, though!
 
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DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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Dec 28, 2017
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Hey guys, I totally missed this thread and just saw the mention from @pornpanda (thanks mate).

@darthseduction I missed your post directed towards me, sorry for that!
Of course I will reply to it (and any others in this tread), I always appreciate it when someone takes the time to provide feedback.

Right now I have 6 pages of (pretty long) posts to go through and an update to finish for tomorrow, so it will probably have to wait until the weekend, though!
I totally understand. Sorry if I come off as harsh, it's not aimed at you personally, I respect that you've actually gone out and made a game even if I think it could be better.
 

Pyjak Slayer

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Jun 5, 2017
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I tried it some times ago and there was nothing special , and the game is in very early stage , so i don't understand why there is so much messages about this game in the forum , there is a lot of games that looks a lot more promising.

so why ?
No idea, the game is all-around mediocre. Generic models that have been used hundreds of time on this website. The gameplay is as boring, if not more than Big Brother. It's grindy as fuck, with no real reward as of yet, and that's where BB overtakes it in my opinion. You actually get a reward for doing something. Man of the House is overrated tbh.
 
Dec 4, 2017
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more so like a copy from bunch of the games in here. Even i don't get it why want to waste time from the copy. the game was weird as fuck and like the final reaction was Thats It? i just can play with their feelings? Even when you try to approach mom was even weirder. As long the story is interesting im fine to continue to play but not in here.
 

Ente Supremo

Member
Jul 10, 2017
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602
Oh, u still want to prove what an intelligent dude u are deconstructing posts like this... cool, i hope i can do it too...

So, you're saying that Faerin himself agrees that I'm right and that grind is a problem?
Nope, im saying he knows the flaws of his game and hes not trying to sell it like it is masterpiece... Im saying he knew that BEFORE u came to enlight us about all the flaws and nothing worth to praise it has... Im saying WE knew about stuff that is damaging or wrongly placed in the game too and spoken about those flaws in the thread and to him personally, and we keep doing it... Im saying that i particulary did it multiple times... Im saying that im not the only IDIOT who does this... Im saying u mix "facts" with "opinions" all over ur posts and it seem u dont even realise it, u treat all ur statements as "facts" and all other statements as "opinions", thats not right nor fair dude...

To take that a step further, he's wrong. The game has always been long enough that there was no need for grind because grind, I say again, is just the tool of people who can't come up with a realistic reason for two characters to want to fuck. He padded his game with girnd to make it appear longer and increase the damage of the Sunk Cost Fallacy. That quote is Faerin proving everything I've said in this thread is completely valid.
Thats a valid opinion, one of the few u stated i might agree on, even if technically i luck the knowledge to state it this harshly... still, i say it again too, just an opinion of a work in progress nonetheless... nobodye said this thread is not valid, what are u implying? im questioning UR POSTS and the way u say things and treat other posters opinions, u keep eluding that matter cause im not the only one who said this... that amaze me, really...

So you think I'm just a prideful asshole who doesn't think that anyone else has had these thoughts and didn't come here to a thread that is exactly about how most people don't get the popularity of the game? Are you stupid or do you just need to make me out to be a demon because I don't appreciate this game?
Yes, i think that, thanks to put it in such aewsome words, it seems u can read minds too, cool dude... and yes, from ur point of view everyone else is stupid, u cleared that part 20000 words ago... im glad to be in that stupid flock... demon? Please, u think to higly of yourself... u are merely a goblin or sorts... u are completely entitled to love or hate whatever u want, that doesnt make u a stupid person or demon or angel... the same applyes to EVERYONE, u know...

My first real comment in the thread actually restructures all of the interactions with all of the characters in a way that removes the grind, adds story and depth and most importantly keeps the general feel of the characters intact. If that's not constructive criticism I don't know what is. The evil roots of the industry are in the excusing of this failure to address these issues and moreover, in fans like you who seek to discourage any dissent. I said before, criticism is good for a developer, it gives them the opportunity to see what is wrong, and how they might go about fixing that. Defending them for their failures is bad for a developer, it justifies their failures and allows them to go on believing they are doing better than they are. You say you were critical of the grind, and I believe you, but here you are defending him before he's fixed it, and therefore you are justifying his failure to create something worthy of praise.
Ur first 3-4 posts were somehow interesting, perspective wise... dont have any problems with those... then again, those barely cover 2000 of the 25000 words u said after those firsts posts and the tone its also diferent... I said it myself that im critic with his work, why i feel like im in school again with that ugly know it all teacher here, its like u dont believe we can like the game and be critics at the same time... thats messed up, not everybodye is a fanboy... i personally expressed my own opinion about the game and the dev, im defending my opinion, not the dev... i dont think this is something that is not worthy of praise, really, even with its flaws... explain that to me with ur "objetive" wisdom please...

You are officially the first person to bring up this feedback line in reference to the games popularity and not in reference to it's quality. That is an important distinction and a somewhat good argument for why the game is popular. It does not make up for the quality issues.
Oh, thanks to acknowledge a valid OPINION of someone else, i knew u could do it... btw, i said that in my first post too, but maybe its one of those u choosed to ignore...

I've said multiple times that I have nothing against Faerin personally, there's nothing for us to talk about though. I'm simply critiquing the content of the game. I talked about other games, even AAA titles, in reference to quality and was always bringing them up in the context of what Faerin should have done and not in any attempt to derail the subject of the thread. I am speaking out in the way you are saying, but the problem isn't that I'm speaking out, it is that you can't listen to criticism. It annoys you because I don't blindly follow. It ignores you that I haven't talked to Faerin because you somehow think that anything he says can change the facts that I've presented to prove that his game is CURRENTLY broken. Any future plans to fix that are not contextually relevant to this thread. Things like cheats and ingame walkthroughs are not fixing the problem, they're enabling it. I've said before, you don't have to like me. I'm not here to win a popularity contest. I just want everyone to stop throwing their bodies on the pyre for developers who are sucking out their cash with gimmicks.
I cant listen to criticism? Jesus dude, many people here said already to u that the one who doesnt listen is u and u still cant understand that... i already stated im not a fanboy and im a critic myself (maybe u think the only way to be a critic is to be a self righteous harsh dick, but i assure u thats not the case), ur problem is u only read comprehensibly the parts u feel like it and erase the other stuff u cant digest... im old enought to know that i might have some emotional investment in this game, cause i like it and want it to get better, i like the dev and even im helping in him with some stuff... from there to not being able to critic the game, thats a huge gap in ur whises, dude, i already said that im one to point out stuff to him, u can believe me or not, i dont really care, but i certainly wont allaw u to say im blind when im certainly not...

I'm calling every one of you human and susceptible to the Sunk Cost Fallacy. I spent a few hours on this game a month ago. You've followed the development, gotten involved and given feedback, sunk just as many if not more hours into it than I did, it's only natural that you would psychologically be inclined to believe that it was time well spent. Objectively from an outside perspective it wasn't. You aren't stupid because your brain works the way all human brains do, you simply aren't removed enough from the problem to be objective about it. You're emotional, I'm cold. That is the difference.
Im calling u an indidividual of that human race, with the same amount of subjectivity as anybodye else, even if u wish to present urself as a supreme entity like my nickname here, one who calls the shots from above with no subjectivity at all... u seem to think ur presumed "objectivity" removes u from the human race and then u say u talk in psicological terms... then again, something really objective really exist? Thats a hole new debate and my personal opinion is that theres not "real objectivity" whatsoever, there are perspectives and thats inherent to each person, so ur "opinions" have the same weight than mine or anybodye else... this "outside perspective" u talk about can give u a little more "cold" view of some things, agreed, but like i said before, my problem with u is u seem to forget that "cold" is not the same as "harsh"; "cold" is not the same as "right" nor "objetive"; "subjective" is not the same as "moronic" and "blind"; "emotionallly invested" is not the same as "blind little sheep" also and many other stuff u tend to state as granted... read what people is really saying, not what u want to read... and freaking acknowledge that u might be wrong too, u dont have all the truth dude... maybe im being subjective here, who knows...

This is you justifying it to yourself. There is no such thing as a game that "is not to be a story driven game", and there's nothing "smooth" about it either, if it was smooth then we wouldn't be talking about grind. There absolutely is a story to this game. The problem is that it wasn't fleshed out enough to use it to justify the sex. So, in lieu of fleshing out the story, Faerin simply made all the events repeat daily until you've earned a reward. All it takes is a little bit of character development, a conversation, some reason to come together, and bam, you have two people plausibly exploring and enjoying sex. Then, to drag it out longer and keep the sex interesting, you go step by step. With incest there's a built in reason to make this take as long as you want. They are related, they feel bad about what they're doing. It takes time and experience to get over that. Faerin actually, as I've said before, exploits this quite well. The problem is that its through repeated events and not evolving story that we advance.
I said "FOR NOW", i believe its capitalized for some reason, maybe im just a little stupid or blind... u dont understand what that means? Again, totally by-passing some stuff to make ur argument, not a good practice... all the ret is my personal opinion and be my guest to think differently... then again, i believe im not the only one who consider this game nice and smooth, but u are entitled to ur "opinion"... i also believe u think about his game it terms of a completed work, its not and u fail to see all the improvements been made since the begining... maybe cause u didnt know it before, but that is not excuse by now to me... that just proves once again u dont read properly others comments...

To make that last paragraph short and easy to understand. The only way to replace grind and still have a plausible incest experience is to write story. There is no in between.
See, this kind of things are the ones that angers me, not the critic, the way u say things like if u are talking to childs here... even if this one is way less patronizing than many others i saw trough ur posts... one thing is a pun, another is to believe u are talking with brainless idiots or little childs here... now u know why i think u are a self righteous human being...

You think Faerin can't see this thread? Here, I'll help you by going back to my original, I'll edit it, tag him, and explain that while I hold nothing against him I was told I shouldn't critique his game without making sure he sees what I had to say. Will that make you feel better?
Cool, i just said u didnt approach to him until i call u on this, so despite ur harsh words u realised this at least, proven i was right, no thanks needed... minutes ago he writed his first post here after i call on u with this yesterday, coincidence?, i dont think so... feel better? Seriously dude, come back to men realm, godly impersonation doesnt suits u...

It's done, if you want to go back to page 3 and read it, be my guest.
Sadly, I did read all ur post... anyhow, i was debating with myself if will be worth it to write here my previous post, cause i saw u read very "subjectively" all the posts from others... i just did it to express myself and somehow i tried to explain why... i feel is not worth it to keep going, i could extensibly say why, but if u are as smart as u seem and think so, u should see this will go nowhere at least between u and me... so, feel free to continue arguying with yourself, cause thats the general impression ones get reading ur posts, u talk only with yourself and from far above us, be my guest and ask away this to other users, please... im not replying anymore, better things to do that wasting time like this... just that, may ur journey lead u to amazing places, dude... Cheers!
 

DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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Game Developer
Dec 28, 2017
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@Ente Supremo I started going through and was going to address all your points one by one, but I realised as I kept going that it would be fruitless. You are exactly the reason I'm here in this thread still, but I see now that its pointless. You acknowledge and agree that the game is flawed, but you brush that criticism aside on faith. Faith that Faerin will improve it. I have no doubt that any future project Faerin does will be better for the criticism he received on this one. But I don't see him giving his game the entire rewrite it needs if he wants to fix it. If he does that I'll eat my words. But I also am sure that doing so would only alienate his fans.

Blind faith such as yours is impossible to argue with. No matter how logical my arguments, no matter how much I show the technical aspects of what go into any artistic project can be measured for quality objectively, I will never pierce your faith. Don't try to refute it either. Its so evident in your writing that I am literally shaking with frustration. Talking to you about this game would be like talking to my father about religion. So I'm done. If you refuse to see the truth that's on you. Sorry. Hopefully this makes you look critically at how you act, but I doubt it. Hopefully if we interact in the future we can leave this behind us, because I have no interest in continuing.
 
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Ente Supremo

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Jul 10, 2017
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Im going to eat my words about not responding, just this time, cause im a flawed human being...

@darthseduction U just read wathever u want to read about anyone else posts and keep doing it, im not blind, i do have some sort of faith in this dev and i did acknowledge that from the start, but that didnt made me blind... not me at least, how many times i have to say that im one to critic all the time stuff in the game????? how many???? im putting aside the criticism??? WTF dude, u r seriously damaged or u are a professional troll, its one of those two... i happen to like the game, that doesnt mean im a fanboy and i'll happily comply with anything the dev throws at me!!!!

U claim to know where i stand but misread all im saying... and keep placing me in that confortable zone for u (like u did with others in this thread), stop placing me there to build ur crumbling arguments, im not there even if u wish i am, thats a fiction u created in ur head... read what i said, i never said the games is perfect, flawless or anything like that like a fanboy would... im even agnostic so ur religious comment its way out of place there... u have a serious problem in comprehensive reading to extrapolate all this shit from what U SAY i writed, really, u should see a doctor or something... it makes me wonder if u even read or just take a few words here and there to make ur imaginary impressions of people and what they say...

U are frustrated? dont make me laugh, thats what alot of people here felt about ur self righteous posts, its patent all over the thread, dont take my word on it, just read slowly and comprehensibly or ask ur dad for help reading it maybe...

Believing that the only way one can be a critic is to be an ass and saying "everything is wrong" its something thats just stupid and just placing all people who thinks different than u into ur confort category of "fanboys" its just another...
again, im not hiding the flaws of the game, im stating that not everything is wrong and somethings needs to improve, ITS MY PERSONAL OPINION... the same u have yours but u elevate it to TRUTH...

U dare to accuse people of "blind faith" like in religions and then u say: "If you refuse to see the truth that's on you. Sorry.", yes father darth, i promise i'll behave from now on and start to believe only in ur heavenly words... and "Hopefully this makes you look critically at how you act, but I doubt it.", thats was the main reason for me to start writing this posts in regards of ur acting, but it seems that one eluded u also... well, taking into account all the stuff u "eluded" so far, somehow this doesnt surprise me...

"Hopefully if we interact in the future we can leave this behind us, because I have no interest in continuing", i just leaved all this behind me by ignoring ur user altogheter, im not interested in sharing anything with people like u, who thinks have all the truth in their side and refuse to take in account different perspectives, its way healthier this way for everyone...

But in one thing i was right from the start, this was a total waste of my valuable time... Cheers!
 

DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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Game Developer
Dec 28, 2017
3,360
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Im going to eat my words about not responding, just this time, cause im a flawed human being...

@darthseduction U just read wathever u want to read about anyone else posts and keep doing it, im not blind, i do have some sort of faith in this dev and i did acknowledge that from the start, but that didnt made me blind... not me at least, how many times i have to say that im one to critic all the time stuff in the game????? how many???? im putting aside the criticism??? WTF dude, u r seriously damaged or u are a professional troll, its one of those two... i happen to like the game, that doesnt mean im a fanboy and i'll happily comply with anything the dev throws at me!!!!

U claim to know where i stand but misread all im saying... and keep placing me in that confortable zone for u (like u did with others in this thread), stop placing me there to build ur crumbling arguments, im not there even if u wish i am, thats a fiction u created in ur head... read what i said, i never said the games is perfect, flawless or anything like that like a fanboy would... im even agnostic so ur religious comment its way out of place there... u have a serious problem in comprehensive reading to extrapolate all this shit from what U SAY i writed, really, u should see a doctor or something... it makes me wonder if u even read or just take a few words here and there to make ur imaginary impressions of people and what they say...

U are frustrated? dont make me laugh, thats what alot of people here felt about ur self righteous posts, its patent all over the thread, dont take my word on it, just read slowly and comprehensibly or ask ur dad for help reading it maybe...

Believing that the only way one can be a critic is to be an ass and saying "everything is wrong" its something thats just stupid and just placing all people who thinks different than u into ur confort category of "fanboys" its just another...
again, im not hiding the flaws of the game, im stating that not everything is wrong and somethings needs to improve, ITS MY PERSONAL OPINION... the same u have yours but u elevate it to TRUTH...

U dare to accuse people of "blind faith" like in religions and then u say: "If you refuse to see the truth that's on you. Sorry.", yes father darth, i promise i'll behave from now on and start to believe only in ur heavenly words... and "Hopefully this makes you look critically at how you act, but I doubt it.", thats was the main reason for me to start writing this posts in regards of ur acting, but it seems that one eluded u also... well, taking into account all the stuff u "eluded" so far, somehow this doesnt surprise me...

"Hopefully if we interact in the future we can leave this behind us, because I have no interest in continuing", i just leaved all this behind me by ignoring ur user altogheter, im not interested in sharing anything with people like u, who thinks have all the truth in their side and refuse to take in account different perspectives, its way healthier this way for everyone...

But in one thing i was right from the start, this was a total waste of my valuable time... Cheers!
Look at that, I try to end this on a civil note, and you continue to argue, insult me several times over your own insecurities and contradictions, and then tell me that you've blocked me, rather than trying to be civil in the future.

You continue to contradict yourself at every step in this post. Every single thing I've brought to this thread has been backed up. When I'm critical of story, I presented both an improvement to his, and an example from mine. When I'm critical of content, I show examples of games with a similar format who don't resort to a long grind. When I talk about how you can be critical of the game but still come out liking it I point to actual psychological phenomena to explain why that is.

You keep mentioning that you don't like how I act superior. This is a problem with society these days. They can't be told they're wrong. They can't stand someone being smarter than them. I am not here to prove I'm smarter than you. I could care less. I simply want people to think critically about things and stop sitting on the fence.

That's what you're doing. You're telling me you don't like the game, but you trust the developer, so you're gonna support the game. That's like saying you don't believe in religion but you're holding out for there being a God... Oh wait, you're agnostic too. I guess it's just in your character to sit on the fence.

Good riddance.
 

Faerin

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Jul 14, 2017
1,077
7,443
Well, I've read the thread and as promised, here's my reply:

First of all, thanks a lot for the interest.
The game is clearly not for everyone, a lot of people like, a lot of people don't.
Of course it would be great if everyone would like the game, but that is pretty much impossible for the big AAA studio's, let alone for a single dev.

I always try to read all the feedback and while I may not always agree with it, I do appreciate it a lot, especially when it's constructive. I try to take all feedback into account, except for the occasional "childish tantrums", I just ignore those for the most part.

@darthseduction I think there's nothing wrong with you being critical of my game, it is your opinion and others can't tell you what to think, in fact, I welcome anyone being critical, as to me, it helps me take my game to a higher level.
I think you make some very valid points, especially about the grind, this is something that I intend to balance (and mostly decrease) in the coming updates.
Also about the writing, I agree with a lot of what you said that and I know the writing could be better.
In all honestly doing the writing, coding, modelling, rendering is a lot, so in order for me release new updates on a regular basis I can't always spend as much time on each, as I would like.
So not only the writing, but each one of those, could definitely be better.
Some are limited by time and some are limited by my capabilities. Hopefully this will both improve over time,. that's what I'm aming for, at least.

I do have to say however, after reading this thread, that I find it slightly ironic that you made that comparison (talking about religion with your father, refusing to see the truth), when you come accross to me as someone who is doing the exact same thing. As I said before in my own topic, I think that discussion is a good thing and that everyone is entitled to their opinions, however, a lot of people seem to mix up fact and opinion and that's usually the end of any discussion.
This is purely how I perceive it, which, while also just an opinion, sometimes may be of use in understanding why others react to us, the way they do.

Thanks a lot guys for all the feedback, I don't intend to piss people off or frustrate anyone, but I can't control how strong some players react either.
At the end of the day, I'm just trying to make the best game I can make, and I don't have the illusions that it's the best game anyone could make.
I just hope that there are also a lot of people that do enjoy it and have fun playing it!
 
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DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
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@Faerin
First of all, I'd like to apologize, to you and everyone else, for allowing myself to be so heated in my arguments. At first I made a comment in order to encourage people to be more critical in how they approach things. That message continued to be lost in the haze of a back and forth about specific technical aspects of your work. In reality, your game was simply the frame for the discussion I was hoping to foster with my initial post.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I have a lot of respect for you as a developer, especially for how you reacted to my very harsh criticism, you are a great person for being able to do that. Please, don't take my brashness to heart and think too poorly of me.

On the subject of art however, for a lot of people, the idea that art is completely subjective is held as an irrefutable fact. However, that simply isn't true. There is a format, rules, structure, to any story. These rules aren't strict, like laws, the structure is malleable, and great things can come from subverting convention, however, that's not what's going on here.

If we really break apart a Life Sim sandbox like yours, what you have is 3 different stories. You have a story where your protagonist pursues his little sister. You have a story where your protagonist pursues his big sister, and you have a story where your protagonist pursues his mother. In each of these stories you should be following a structure. The most basic structure for writing is the 3 act structure, the beginning 25% being the setup which culminates in the inciting incident. The second act, the middle 50% being the action leading to the climax, this second act is sometimes given an extra plot point or small twist in the middle, something that raises the stakes, or shakes things up for the protagonists. The final act would be the resolution, good or bad.

A more complex story will follow a 5 act structure, with the first and final acts serving much the same purpose, and the middle three containing more development. It starts with your prologue, the story that sets up the characters and their motivations, and then culminates in the inciting incident, something happens to set your protagonist on a path. The conflict, this is the beginning of the story proper, where your protagonist begins to question his or her role in the story and how to tackle their goals. Rising action. This is a step where things kick up a notch, something has happened and the protagonist has to struggle. The Climax. Three act structure puts this at the end, but it's true place is closer to the 2/3 mark, at this we have a turning point, our protagonist has to make a choice that will solidify his final path. Falling action comes next, this is the point after the climax where the protagonist moves inexorably towards the result of his decision. Finally we come to the conclusion. Here, good or bad, we come to the end of our protagonists journey, having grown and learned throughout and ultimately made the decision that leads to whatever end.

You need 4 of these, as you need one for each character's arc and you need 1 for the mc's overall arc. Elements of the story involve advancing other elements and thus require cross points and etc.

Further, you need characters that fit your story. Each character should be a facsimile of the story you're trying to tell. If the story is about a man's quest to turn his family into his personal harem, then each of the other characters also need a sexual motivation. Mom should need confirmation that she is still a sexy woman. Big Sis should follow an arc of discovering her newfound kink of being dominated, and little sis should be dealing with the fact that she's falling in love with her big brother, all while all 3 women have to come to terms with the fact that you're not just seeing one of them, but all of them.

Honestly, these games make a huge mistake by holding out on the sexual content till the end, because the real conflict isn't in getting the girls at this point, it's in getting them all to share you. Mom would be the most willing to share you, while wanting to protect her daughters from you, big sis wouldn't want you with anyone else, but she'd do whatever you told her. Little sis would have the hardest time sharing you, because she's actually in love.

Lastly, you need to get rid of your exposition and add in more dialogue to inform the viewer who the character is. You shouldn't have a character ever simply declare something personal about themselves. Instead it should be inferred from dialogue. The scene you have with the big sister and the coffee in the morning is perfect. It's exactly what should be used to introduce her... too bad the MC already told us she was a bitch, rather than letting us discover it on our own.

In short, no, what makes a good story isn't subjective. All games have a story. A significant lack of character development and plot will lead to empty space that needs to be filled in some way to give characters a reason to interact. That is why so many games are full of grind. In the end, grind isn't a flaw in a game, it is a result in an objective flaw in the story and characters.
 

gestved

Engaged Member
Aug 18, 2017
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I like the game, but I think it's overrated, and I also think that the fans are much more forgiving with faerin than they are with other devs (more like they give a lot of crap to some devs for some things, where faerin could do the same and receive no criticism whatsoever, not that I think that the criticism the first dev received is fair/significant in the first place, it's just the contradiction that bothers me), but none of that is faerin fault, his game is good, I love ashley, veronica and sophie and it deserves the success it has
 
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Faerin

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Jul 14, 2017
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@darthseduction I don't think poorly of you at all, like I said before I appreciate everyone's feedback, "good or bad", as long as it's constructive. I also appreciate you taking the time to write that post and apologize (even though, to me personally, you have nothing to apologize for), I'm sure others here might respect that too.

About art (or anything for that matter) being subjective: that can be a tricky debate.
I'm "a bit of a philosopher" and even though I try not to, that defines my view on this for a large part.
I do agree that something with an agreed criteria, can be good or bad.
An athlete can be good at his/her sport: if you are the fastest runner in the world, it's hard to refute that (where it is generally agreed upon that "speed" is the criteria here).
What about a song, if all the people in the world like it, but one doesn't, is it still good? Or is it subjective.
But if we agree that a song is good when it has provided the artist with as much income as possbile, it can be measured (opinion vs fact).
In the end it comes down to the "rules" you are applying to a certain subject.
Now 2 people can talk about the same thing, but have a different ruleset, that's when the discussion usually goes wrong...

Sorry for going a bit off-topic perhaps, but to me this is a very interesting discussion.
So back to art, sure I agree, there are certain "rules" that can applied (by the way, the ones you describe with regards to writing are all unknown to me, so you clearly know a lot more about that than me).
However if a person is not looking at the technical aspect, but more from a personal standpoint: "do I enjoy it?", then it becomes a different story.

To me, your original post had a lot of opinions, which as I stated earlier, is perfectly fine.
However when you present these as facts, which (again, to me) you did, people might have an issue with it.

However, the points you made in your last post make a lot of sense and I do agree with most what you are saying.

Sex should not be the end: I completely agree (and never intended for my game either, to be honest).
Like I have said before in the other thread, once the characters are at a point where they start having sex, to me the fun part is only beginning.

Characters that inform the viewer who the character is: Again, totally agree, this is a flaw in my writing and the stories I prefer personally, are the ones that allows the reader to draw his own conclusions, instead of spelling them out for me.

I have to say though and this might sound a bit like a cop-out (and perhaps it is), I never paid the writing the level of attention that you are describing, again both due to lack of skill and time. So could I write a slightly better story? Probably yes. Could I write a much better one? Probably not. ;)

In the end, the thing I learned to appreciate about this forum is that we can have discussions about these things, without making things personal or getting frustrated.
I agree with a lot of what you said and really appreciate the way you said it in your last post.
I will definitely try to keep this in mind when continuing the story and hopefully by the time I finish this game, the next game will be based on more experience in every aspect.
I learned a lot from making this game, which honestly was supposed to my first "testrun" of the engine, I never expected it to get this big.

Sorry for the rant!
 

Faerin

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Jul 14, 2017
1,077
7,443
I like the game, but I think it's overrated, and I also think that the fans are much more forgiving with faerin than they are with other devs (more like they give a lot of crap to some devs for some things, where faerin could do the same and receive no criticism whatsoever, not that I think that the criticism the first dev received is fair/significant in the first place, it's just the contradiction that bothers me), but none of that is faerin fault, his game is good, I love ashley, veronica and sophie and it deserves the success it has
Thanks, though I feel slightly different about this, because I have to go through a number of "hate-mails" each day. To me, it was a total surprise that people would get so frustrated about it (even aggressive or personal), but I guess that comes with making something that everyone can have their opinions about. ;)

I believe that if you like the game, you should play it and if you don't, then don't.
But I guess that's just not how it works for a lot of people.

On the other hand, yes I agree, the thread is filled with some very positive "fans" that really appreciate what I do and are always helpful. I like to think that this is also due to the fact that I am open to feedback and talk to them about the development of the game, so maybe it works boths ways?
 
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DarthSeduction

Lord of Passion
Donor
Game Developer
Dec 28, 2017
3,360
5,216
@darthseduction I don't think poorly of you at all, like I said before I appreciate everyone's feedback, "good or bad", as long as it's constructive. I also appreciate you taking the time to write that post and apologize (even though, to me personally, you have nothing to apologize for), I'm sure others here might respect that too.

About art (or anything for that matter) being subjective: that can be a tricky debate.
I'm "a bit of a philosopher" and even though I try not to, that defines my view on this for a large part.
I do agree that something with an agreed criteria, can be good or bad.
An athlete can be good at his/her sport: if you are the fastest runner in the world, it's hard to refute that (where it is generally agreed upon that "speed" is the criteria here).
What about a song, if all the people in the world like it, but one doesn't, is it still good? Or is it subjective.
But if we agree that a song is good when it has provided the artist with as much income as possbile, it can be measured (opinion vs fact).
In the end it comes down to the "rules" you are applying to a certain subject.
Now 2 people can talk about the same thing, but have a different ruleset, that's when the discussion usually goes wrong...

Sorry for going a bit off-topic perhaps, but to me this is a very interesting discussion.
So back to art, sure I agree, there are certain "rules" that can applied (by the way, the ones you describe with regards to writing are all unknown to me, so you clearly know a lot more about that than me).
However if a person is not looking at the technical aspect, but more from a personal standpoint: "do I enjoy it?", then it becomes a different story.

To me, your original post had a lot of opinions, which as I stated earlier, is perfectly fine.
However when you present these as facts, which (again, to me) you did, people might have an issue with it.

However, the points you made in your last post make a lot of sense and I do agree with most what you are saying.

Sex should not be the end: I completely agree (and never intended for my game either, to be honest).
Like I have said before in the other thread, once the characters are at a point where they start having sex, to me the fun part is only beginning.

Characters that inform the viewer who the character is: Again, totally agree, this is a flaw in my writing and the stories I prefer personally, are the ones that allows the reader to draw his own conclusions, instead of spelling them out for me.

I have to say though and this might sound a bit like a cop-out (and perhaps it is), I never paid the writing the level of attention that you are describing, again both due to lack of skill and time. So could I write a slightly better story? Probably yes. Could I write a much better one? Probably not. ;)

In the end, the thing I learned to appreciate about this forum is that we can have discussions about these things, without making things personal or getting frustrated.
I agree with a lot of what you said and really appreciate the way you said it in your last post.
I will definitely try to keep this in mind when continuing the story and hopefully by the time I finish this game, the next game will be based on more experience in every aspect.
I learned a lot from making this game, which honestly was supposed to my first "testrun" of the engine, I never expected it to get this big.

Sorry for the rant!
Not at all, don't apologize, it was nice to hear back from you. I'm sure you have it in you. I'm obsessed with story and how it works, so I do tend to learn everything I can, so that my own writing can be better for it. Much of what I talked about there in that post, especially about Act structure I take from youtube videos (I posted them in Dev only on the hub if you wanna take a look). I also read a lot. I enjoy storytelling. I enjoy being taken to another world. And I enjoy creating that world as well.
 
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rangaru

Active Member
Jun 25, 2017
603
1,019
I don't care much for this game but MotH thread is extremly disturbing. Bunch of guys very into incest calling themselfs "brothers" constantly. It's like sacred band of Thebes all over again.
 
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Hentami

Member
Donor
Game Developer
Nov 26, 2017
186
483
@ Man of the House is actually the game that inspired me - on a technical level, to try and push the way I thought about VNs in new directions on a mechanics level. So personally, I thank you for your game ;)


 

Aeilion

Member
Jun 14, 2017
125
144
Regarding Man of the House ...

I find the graphics a little above average, I don' like the characters and especially some facial expression but it's good.
I really like the navigation system etc ... But I sincerely hope that there is a good reason for such a hard work because for the moment I don't see it. (the time in minutes and all his travels with events etc ...)

And I think it stops there for the good points..

I find that there is no interesting story. That's to say that from time to time I test the game again to see the additions but I never come back because I want to see the rest of the story. A guy who only lives to fuck girls and especially those of his family ... Ok ...

Every action he makes is only for that reason. Some may be acceptable as to study to help her little sister with her homework. But others ... He goes to the gym and sincerely I don't know why ... He will work to have money like everyone but to do what? Buy wine for her mother in the hope of seeing under her bathrobe ... Offer lingerie to her little sister ... Buy a god ... Go to a date ... Well just to fuck girls.

He has no friend, he has no passion (that we know anyway). He has no future or what ... Let's imagine we stop there and he has managed to fuck all his family and the friends of the family and all the other girls of the city ... I don't see what he will become apart from a dick on his feet.

Yes it's a porn game where we want to see sex and our only desire is sex ... or not. I understood well. But for me it's boring.

Girls... I think darthseduction said everything I have in mind or almost

Then, of course, there is the grind ...

There are two types of grind from my point of view. The grind that follows the story and the one who is forced and who brings nothing at all outside of ... I don't know actually. And in Man of the house we have the perfect example at the beginning of the game.

It turns out that our little sister needs help with her homework. Ok no worries we are a good guy and it will surely bring us closer. But hey we can be a good guy but we have a lack of knowledge ... in any case in math, history and bio what is acceptable (for an empty character who finished school)...

So what can we do?

Simple! We will learn a little more about the subject. So computer, course and that's it. It is a quick and efficient grind that follows the course of the story.
But I'm smarter than that so I'm not just going to learn a little bit ... I'm going to learn everything at once. Math, history and biology! It's represented by a nice 15 in my smart stat.
So I'm ready to help my little sister, I really worked hard for that! 12h in all (just 3 click is cool)

So I'm going to see my sister and ... what? Unfortunately she does not want help except in history ... Why? I worked hard! But no, obviously for her to accept help, you have to give her compliments and stuff like that ... Seriously? She's the one who asked for help ! I don't understand.

It does not serve story, immersion or anything. It breaks everything. It forces me to do stuff and click the button to pass the time ... until she agrees to be helped.

And then the fatigue / food / higiene etc ... I played a lot of game in my life and participated in the development of some. Every time there was someone to say that it would be cool to feel the fact that our character is hungry, is tired needs this or that ... But in reality it never is! it's just boring and it diverts our attention from the game. We're here following the story (or almost) and all of a sudden ... Oh no, in fact my character has to take a shower or eat a stuff or is too tired.

Especially that there is no result following these actions. Ok we can not compliment the sister because we are hungry .. Heuu ok. It could have been fun (or not) if she rejected the player when he wants to hug her because he smells bad and he has not washed for 3 days ...

It gives me the impression that these actions are there to push the player to go to a place that can activate an event. And that otherwise nothing guarantees the player to go to a place or do an actions: coffee, dinner, bathroom, bed ....

I don't like it... But its a game made by a solo dev. So its ok i think.
If he has the ability and the desire to improve his game it's cool and if not... we can not ask people to do more than what they want or can do. (exept for sex slave:))
 

maisbordeldemerde

La rabia del pueblo
Donor
Dec 19, 2016
535
1,023
I actually prefer BB over MotH. I won't say these games are utter shit because I like the CGs and that's an important factor to me in some pron games. I dont want to talk about gameplay mechanics or the storyline, at that point thats not really something I'm looking into when I play both these games. In my personal view I think the renders catch up pretty much every bad aspect of these games and that's what make them decent or ok-ish games imo.

But to answer the thread yeah this game is prob so popular mostly because of the incest fetish and because the dev gives regular news and takes his time to answer the peeps here.
 

JDVT

Active Member
Sep 23, 2018
755
278
it would be awesome if we knew a little about the characters bio, age and a bit of info what what they do or what they are about. something like that.