VN Ren'Py What are you looking for when you search for a new VN

[MisterMaya]

Hey everyone,

I'm about to release my first ever Adult Visual Novel, and testing my game raised a number of questions about what people are most likely to be looking for in an aVN (yes I know, would have been better off if I asked this question 7 months ago).
What I mean by that is, would you rather play an interesting VN with not so many LEWD animations because you're thrilled by the story, or are the animations and renders what makes you want to play a VN the most ?

I know that I'm maybe too "greedy", but for me both the story and the 3d artwork are essential to keep me thrilled while playing a VN.
But I don't need to have 50 animations per hour, it's the thrill of navigating through the story, see how your choices matter and affect the story and your relations to other characters that keep me playing for 2, 3 even more hours just to get to one scene.
I always liked to play the games fully, I'm going to talk about BaDIK as it's a perfect exemple, but playing both a DIK and a CHICK, even neutral actually, is what I want in a game.
Reaching different endings, kind of feel like getting achievements in videogames for instance.
I was wondering how many people feel like I do, and who feels different.

Anyway, thanks for voting !

MisterMaya

 

[PrinceOfShades]

For me:
- High Quality Renders - not 100% necessary but they definitely add a big plus if they're present.
- High Quality Animations - very important for me and very much a deal breaker. I can't play games without decent animations at least. but there are a lot of people who don't care about animations, so you should be fine either way.
- Interesting Story - it's definitely a plus, but a generic plot that is executed and written well can also do wonders.
- Different Choices/Endings - it's a nice bonus to have and probably pretty important if you want to boast that your game is choice-based, but I don't care that much.
- Lots of animations, nudity - many games abuse this and flood the player with them too early and too much, up to the point where the story is basically ruined. don't overdo it for the sake of making it a porn game. build up to sex scenes, make fewer and put more effort into them - they should feel like goals. make them feel natural, like they're meant to be part of a plot, not just a bus station for players to jack off. you can never go wrong with too many animations, but too much nudity/sex can ruin a game if executed poorly.
- "Long life" game - I have no idea what this is.

 

[MisterMaya]

Hey , thanks for your answer !

I like it a lot, I strongly agree with a lot of points you mentionned, such as the abuse of nudity too early in the game, it really makes me lose interest for the game.

When I said long life, I meant do you like a game which you can play for hours and hours, or a short game, which you'll finish in a few horus top.
Maybe that doesn't make sense putting it like that, but I've played too many games which weretoo short, even though the quality of renders was great, and I haven't even downloaded the next update because I wasn't hooked to the game.

 

[PrinceOfShades]

Hey , thanks for your answer !

I like it a lot, I strongly agree with a lot of points you mentionned, such as the abuse of nudity too early in the game, it really makes me lose interest for the game.

When I said long life, I meant do you like a game which you can play for hours and hours, or a short game, which you'll finish in a few horus top.
Maybe that doesn't make sense putting it like that, but I've played too many games which weretoo short, even though the quality of renders was great, and I haven't even downloaded the next update because I wasn't hooked to the game.

I mainly enjoy playing longer games, yes. There are a couple of exceptions but I generally enjoy character development and getting attached to characters.

 

[MisterMaya]

I feel that, I'm glad because that's what I aimed for, creating mine.
Feeling a character's joy, pain, sadness, surprise and everything, that's really what I look for in a game.

Well that's reassuring !

 

[Boogie]

Everyone wants Quality no matter what you're discussing, so your first four question are really asking the same thing. The only real choices you are asking is Animations, or Long Life.

I don't really know what Long Life means, but if you are asking if we want a very long game then I'm probably not among the majority when I say I prefer games that are shorter, tell a concise story and are completed in about 1 year. One of the problems with these games now is the Patreonization of game making that incentivizes the developer to never finish a game. For length I'd say less then 10 hours of gameplay, seriously I've got better things to do.

I like "good" animations for the lewd content, not just two or three images looping. Just using stills during the lewd content can still work if you do an excellent job with the writing during the scene, that means well written descriptions of the action. I just don't see a lot of truly excellent writers making these games so it is hard to pull off.

 

[Meridian]

What am I looking for in a new vn? Hmmm. A protagonist who is not generic vanilla nice guy and is interesting to play as, attractive and interesting female characters, pretty renders, interactions between mc and romantic/sexual interests that are kinky and exciting.

Stories are garbage in 99% of adult games so when I try a new game I just hope shitty story wont frustrate me enough to quit it. Same can be said about animations, 95% of them are junky shit that is painful to look at. When devs try to please the people who demand animations all the time I just hope there will be enough static renders during sex scenes so they wont feel too short/empty for someone like me who skips junky animations most of the time.

 

[MisterMaya]

Everyone wants Quality no matter what you're discussing, so your first four question are really asking the same thing. The only real choices you are asking is Animations, or Long Life.

I don't really know what Long Life means, but if you are asking if we want a very long game then I'm probably not among the majority when I say I prefer games that are shorter, tell a concise story and are completed in about 1 year. One of the problems with these games now is the Patreonization of game making that incentivizes the developer to never finish a game. For length I'd say less then 10 hours of gameplay, seriously I've got better things to do.

I like "good" animations for the lewd content, not just two or three images looping. Just using stills during the lewd content can still work if you do an excellent job with the writing during the scene, that means well written descriptions of the action. I just don't see a lot of truly excellent writers making these games so it is hard to pull off.

I understand what you mean when you say the first four questions are the same but I don't agree that much with you.
I've played a few games where quality wasn't that good, but the story was interesting and that kept me playing.

It's true, it's human nature to get tired or bored of something.
Few developpers still find a way to make the wait worth waiting for even though you have to wait sometimes close to 6 months for an update.

I agree with you regarding the animations, looping images is really boring.

 

[MisterMaya]

What am I looking for in a new vn? Hmmm. A protagonist who is not generic vanilla nice guy and is interesting to play as, attractive and interesting female characters, pretty renders, interactions between mc and romantic/sexual interests that are kinky and exciting.

Stories are garbage in 99% of adult games so when I try a new game I just hope shitty story wont frustrate me enough to quit it. Same can be said about animations, 95% of them are junky shit that is painful to look at. When devs try to please the people who demand animations all the time I just hope there will be enough static renders during sex scenes so they wont feel too short/empty for someone like me who skips junky animations most of the time.

Thanks for the answer !

I feel like it's hard to find a great story in most VNs, but some are really good, I am someone who plays a VN only if the story is interesting.

That's interesting what you said about static renders in animation.

 

[anne O'nymous]

What I mean by that is, would you rather play an interesting VN with not so many LEWD animations because you're thrilled by the story, or are the animations and renders what makes you want to play a VN the most ?

I want to be entertained, period.
And this can be achieved by a game that is average at all level, including the story, while a game that is great at all level can also be plain boring. This mean that the most important point is not on your list, the writing.

The story need to be took seriously by the author, even if it's a total what the fuck one. It should be coherent and constant, and if you decide to replay the game, you should have a lot of "Oh fuck, it's 'what' this meant" because you now know what will happen, and understand that it was all planed.
But in the same time, the author shouldn't take himself too seriously. It appear that even virtual characters can highly over play their role. And anyway, to quote a game author I appreciate, "it's just a silly porn game". Enjoy making it, as much as you expect us to enjoy playing it.

It also mean that the CG need to match the action. There's too many games where the characters (or narrator) say one thing, while the CG say another. How many time a girl say that she don't have panties, while the author just loaded the clothes on Daz... and you can see the pantie that come with it right in front of you on the screen. How many time they change pantie while undressing, for the same reason. And I don't talk about the "Hmmm, you make me wet", while the girl have an expression of disgust, surprise, or whatever don't match at all her excitement.
And regarding the CG, they also need to match the tone of the game. A story using Sims for the CG can be pleasant, but keep the story as a slice of life. A thriller that would use Sims for the CG would looks ridiculous.

 

[Boogie]

I understand what you mean when you say the first four questions are the same but I don't agree that much with you.
I've played a few games where quality wasn't that good, but the story was interesting and that kept me playing.

It's true, it's human nature to get tired or bored of something.
Few developpers still find a way to make the wait worth waiting for even though you have to wait sometimes close to 6 months for an update.

I agree with you regarding the animations, looping images is really boring.

As anne O'nymous said, it really all comes done to the writing and being entertained. I appreciate really good renders in most games, but some of the crappiest still get a pass because of what they offer. The Professor is very low grade in render quality (although it offers a huge number of animations) but it is endlessly entertaining in a goofy way, so I love it. Older Honey Select games can also be fine with what they offer in the way of visuals, when they story is worth it.

One thing I didn't mention in my first post is that I prefer meaningful decisions, actual branching decisions that can change the story or at least different endings. But I also like smaller choices as well, such as do I do anal or not, or do I cream pie or pull out? These little choices can have a real impact on the enjoyment of a game if we get forced into something we don't want to do.

One more thing I'll mention because I recently had this discussion elsewhere. Don't have attractive minor characters that you can't bang. Everyone has different taste and inevitably someone will see an attractive character and ask why can't I bang her instead of the main LI that they don't find attractive.

 

[khumak]

The short answer for me is good renders and good characters. Everything else is secondary. An in depth story is also high on my list, as are significant story branches that make it feel like your choices actually matter. That doesn't necessarily mean different endings, just plenty of branches where your choices actually lead to different scenes. Too many games have meaningless choices that don't do anything. Animations are nice, but only if you're actually good at making them. Bad animations are worse than no animations IMO.

 

[Lola Adjani]

PrinceofShades summed it up, pretty well. I would add a couple of points that anne O'nymous touched on.

Connecting the writer to the art department is the most important thing, for me. If you treat a VN like a screenplay, I think you'll achieve a much higher quality result (albeit, perhaps not as popular as mindless, frequent, meaningless sex). Directing the art to match the characters' emotions and actions goes a long way in creating an immersive environment. A good film director tells as much of the story through expression and body language, and shot size/camera angle as the writer does through dialogue and narration.

It's a visual novel, after all. *It should have more in common with film making, than with writing an ordinary novel. High quality renders are wonderful, but if they don't meld with the character they portray, I relegate them to the realm of 'mediocrity', regardless of the technical prowess involved. **(A Honey Select artist, intimately familiar with the character's personality and emotion, will always be more effective than the veteran DAZ artist who is not).

Also, if the writer is a novelist rather than a screenwriter, hire an editor and director, or stick to mindless sex content. You'll be money ahead.

All in all, I think every facet of development is important. Everyone has to work together, to achieve a standout product. If you're working alone, and achieve excellence . . . you are a god among mortals.

*Since F95 is a pirated porn game site, many here will disagree that storytelling ability is significant.
**Again, many will disagree. It would seem a large percentage of users here just want to cum all over the monitor as quickly as possible, while waiting to get on a "New World" server.

 

[Deleted member 3917737]

I am someone who plays a VN only if the story is interesting.

You say that but also said

but for me both the story and the 3d artwork are essential to keep me thrilled while playing a VN.

I just find it funny lol. I have stood up all night, so ignore this crappy post if you (or who ever is reading) want to. I have no clue what the heck I'm even talking about right now and I probably just got confused here xD

I want to experience something new in a game... give me some new 3D models (constantly seeing the same 3D avatars is getting tiring & annoying) Give me a dark, gritty, bloody, graphic violence type of story (kinda like if we played as the Joker from the Joker movie or something... I'd be a Female Joker and no, not Harley Quinn)

Animations are good for the sex scenes (I hate when they loop 3 images or something) and for the characters to seem more alive (when characters blink or have a walking, moving their body or jogging animation, in an anime VN, the characters bodies would be moving like they are breathing and such)

Good looking renders :3 I want to enjoy what I am looking at, but I also want a unique and different type of story that will keep me interested till the end.

I like the games I play to be long, not like Persona 5 type long (which took me around 100+ hours to finish) but maybe around 10-15-20ish hours tops. That number can go higher depending on how many endings you want to put in and all the different types of choice combinations, which can unlock certain scenes/stuff depending on what choices you've made.

You said "BaDIK as it's a perfect exemple, but playing both a DIK and a CHICK, even neutral actually, is what I want in a game"

So, you want to have a system like that? I would go crazy with it lmao! like, instead of DIK, Neutral, CHICK, I'd go with Insane, Sane, Psycho Going the insane route would have you seeing hallucinations, hearing voices, maybe even attacking someone by mistake because you think they are a crazy looking monster or someone trying to kill you. Sane is well, Sane lol. As for Psycho... Hmmm. maybe go a little bit American Psycho/Norman Bates with it? I wonder how you'd go with it...

What type of genres are you trying to go with? I went straight horror/slasher/dark/psychological with it, they're my favorite^^ A little bit of killing, horror, insanity and sex? good combos. I am like, falling alseep while tryting to write all this down for you and while I try to keep my body still and my eyes open.

Fuuuck, I'm not going to remember this lol anywho, I hope you figure out what you want to figure out and can't wait to see how your game turns out.

 

[desmosome]

I look to see if there is Engrish in the overview first lol.

 

[MisterMaya]

I want to be entertained, period.
And this can be achieved by a game that is average at all level, including the story, while a game that is great at all level can also be plain boring. This mean that the most important point is not on your list, the writing.

The story need to be took seriously by the author, even if it's a total what the fuck one. It should be coherent and constant, and if you decide to replay the game, you should have a lot of "Oh fuck, it's 'what' this meant" because you now know what will happen, and understand that it was all planed.
But in the same time, the author shouldn't take himself too seriously. It appear that even virtual characters can highly over play their role. And anyway, to quote a game author I appreciate, "it's just a silly porn game". Enjoy making it, as much as you expect us to enjoy playing it.

It also mean that the CG need to match the action. There's too many games where the characters (or narrator) say one thing, while the CG say another. How many time a girl say that she don't have panties, while the author just loaded the clothes on Daz... and you can see the pantie that come with it right in front of you on the screen. How many time they change pantie while undressing, for the same reason. And I don't talk about the "Hmmm, you make me wet", while the girl have an expression of disgust, surprise, or whatever don't match at all her excitement.
And regarding the CG, they also need to match the tone of the game. A story using Sims for the CG can be pleasant, but keep the story as a slice of life. A thriller that would use Sims for the CG would looks ridiculous.

I hear you, when I wrote interesting story as one of the options for the poll, in my head that including the writing but I now realize they are two different things.

Of course a game with poor writing, boring dialogues is non enjoyable. I get that.
I like what you say about the "This is what he meant." It's something that I really focus on, because as the story advances and events happen, new people come in or things are said, I like to imagine the player saying, "Oh that's him they were talking about earlier!" or, "Hey that's why this happened a while back !" or "This is why she was like that, that's what happened to her !"

The CG in the end to me was a pain in the ass when it comes to rendering.
I don't really like those games where you have one static render and dialogue just scrolls in front of your eyes while all you watch is a girl with an openmouse and blank expression.
I focused on making different faces and expression for one dialogue, when she speaks mouth is open and vice versa.
I got to 3000 renders pretty quick because of that.
But it feels more alive I'd say.

 

[MisterMaya]

As anne O'nymous said, it really all comes done to the writing and being entertained. I appreciate really good renders in most games, but some of the crappiest still get a pass because of what they offer. The Professor is very low grade in render quality (although it offers a huge number of animations) but it is endlessly entertaining in a goofy way, so I love it. Older Honey Select games can also be fine with what they offer in the way of visuals, when they story is worth it.

One thing I didn't mention in my first post is that I prefer meaningful decisions, actual branching decisions that can change the story or at least different endings. But I also like smaller choices as well, such as do I do anal or not, or do I cream pie or pull out? These little choices can have a real impact on the enjoyment of a game if we get forced into something we don't want to do.

One more thing I'll mention because I recently had this discussion elsewhere. Don't have attractive minor characters that you can't bang. Everyone has different taste and inevitably someone will see an attractive character and ask why can't I bang her instead of the main LI that they don't find attractive.

I didn't think small decisions like these really made a difference I'm glad you told me.

Your last point too, I understand it leaves some kind of bad taste to see a nice character and end up not doing anything with them.
I'll keep that in mind.

 

[MisterMaya]

The short answer for me is good renders and good characters. Everything else is secondary. An in depth story is also high on my list, as are significant story branches that make it feel like your choices actually matter. That doesn't necessarily mean different endings, just plenty of branches where your choices actually lead to different scenes. Too many games have meaningless choices that don't do anything. Animations are nice, but only if you're actually good at making them. Bad animations are worse than no animations IMO.

I like that, I tried to make my first episode in a certain way regarding sex scenes, which you'll get access to only if you take the correct paths.
In the end, I really like to think of a VN as some kind of a interactive game.
Where your choices really affect the end.
It's a lot of work, making different paths, but I think it's better because there are probably a lot of people who, like me, will play it again and again making different decisions everytime.

 

[MisterMaya]

PrinceofShades summed it up, pretty well. I would add a couple of points that anne O'nymous touched on.

Connecting the writer to the art department is the most important thing, for me. If you treat a VN like a screenplay, I think you'll achieve a much higher quality result (albeit, perhaps not as popular as mindless, frequent, meaningless sex). Directing the art to match the characters' emotions and actions goes a long way in creating an immersive environment. A good film director tells as much of the story through expression and body language, and shot size/camera angle as the writer does through dialogue and narration.

It's a visual novel, after all. *It should have more in common with film making, than with writing an ordinary novel. High quality renders are wonderful, but if they don't meld with the character they portray, I relegate them to the realm of 'mediocrity', regardless of the technical prowess involved. **(A Honey Select artist, intimately familiar with the character's personality and emotion, will always be more effective than the veteran DAZ artist who is not).

Also, if the writer is a novelist rather than a screenwriter, hire an editor and director, or stick to mindless sex content. You'll be money ahead.

All in all, I think every facet of development is important. Everyone has to work together, to achieve a standout product. If you're working alone, and achieve excellence . . . you are a god among mortals.

*Since F95 is a pirated porn game site, many here will disagree that storytelling ability is significant.
**Again, many will disagree. It would seem a large percentage of users here just want to cum all over the monitor as quickly as possible, while waiting to get on a "New World" server.

Yes it's kinda sad because I'm also looking for that connection to the characters through the story, the scenes and angles of the camera, the lightning and anything, and yet I know that there are a lot of people who are in it just to cum ASAP like you said.
But hey, what's important is to make something you like to make to, because then you'll never get bored I guess.

I like what you said about a VN, while making it you should think of it as a screenplay.
I have a few scenes in mine with no dialogues, just a character doing his thing, and I love those scenes so much. It really feels ... like watching a movie I guess.

"A Honey Select artist, intimately familiar with the character's personality and emotion, will always be more effective than the veteran DAZ artist who is not" I completely agree with you here.

 

[MisterMaya]

You say that but also said



I just find it funny lol. I have stood up all night, so ignore this crappy post if you (or who ever is reading) want to. I have no clue what the heck I'm even talking about right now and I probably just got confused here xD

I want to experience something new in a game... give me some new 3D models (constantly seeing the same 3D avatars is getting tiring & annoying) Give me a dark, gritty, bloody, graphic violence type of story (kinda like if we played as the Joker from the Joker movie or something... I'd be a Female Joker and no, not Harley Quinn)

Animations are good for the sex scenes (I hate when they loop 3 images or something) and for the characters to seem more alive (when characters blink or have a walking, moving their body or jogging animation, in an anime VN, the characters bodies would be moving like they are breathing and such)

Good looking renders :3 I want to enjoy what I am looking at, but I also want a unique and different type of story that will keep me interested till the end.

I like the games I play to be long, not like Persona 5 type long (which took me around 100+ hours to finish) but maybe around 10-15-20ish hours tops. That number can go higher depending on how many endings you want to put in and all the different types of choice combinations, which can unlock certain scenes/stuff depending on what choices you've made.

You said "BaDIK as it's a perfect exemple, but playing both a DIK and a CHICK, even neutral actually, is what I want in a game"

So, you want to have a system like that? I would go crazy with it lmao! like, instead of DIK, Neutral, CHICK, I'd go with Insane, Sane, Psycho Going the insane route would have you seeing hallucinations, hearing voices, maybe even attacking someone by mistake because you think they are a crazy looking monster or someone trying to kill you. Sane is well, Sane lol. As for Psycho... Hmmm. maybe go a little bit American Psycho/Norman Bates with it? I wonder how you'd go with it...

What type of genres are you trying to go with? I went straight horror/slasher/dark/psychological with it, they're my favorite^^ A little bit of killing, horror, insanity and sex? good combos. I am like, falling alseep while tryting to write all this down for you and while I try to keep my body still and my eyes open.

Fuuuck, I'm not going to remember this lol anywho, I hope you figure out what you want to figure out and can't wait to see how your game turns out.

Hey, you may have been pretty sleepy but I understood everything lol.
You're right, what I was trying to say was both are important, but the story is what has the bigger impact on me.

I understand that, how many times have I played a VN and said hey that's Victoria from the DAZ shop, or hey I've seen her in this game.
I think that most VN Nowadays just rush out to sex and give them too early in the game.
I don't want that, I want to make people "fight their way" with every character and get it as a reward of some kind.
I focused way more on the storytelling in my first episode, than sex scenes. Not saying ther won't be any, but it won't be free. and don't expect having sex with 10 girls you just met.

I never thought of going with this system but I like what you say, it's original.
I went with, some girls will like you if you're gentle and nice and honest, other will like you if you act like a little more ... I'd say audacious, harsh, and "viril".

Mine is more suspense/humour, and for the next updates I intend to go a little darker. But still it will stay funny and you'll have a happy vibe on the front, but the story is going to take a much darker turn.

The story is more or less all written, and it's going to be 5 episodes long.
I'm releasing the first one in 10 days.

I can't wait to have your feedback then