[Suggestion] Adult Patreon

starfox31114

Newbie
Aug 7, 2017
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I am actually a huge fan of free speech, and with that comes free ignore/disagree.... but being compared to that is beyond offensive... since my better half is full on Asian makes us a target (and have been).
I believe everyone has the right to their opinion, no matter how hateful, so I respect yours.

Please respect mine and go piss on a very high voltage electric fence.
I'm sorry you got offended while doing the very same thing you seems to be against. Makes you think, don't it? Please reflect on that, after all, telling me to kill myself is a very alt-right thing. And no, I've never seen a case of asians being targeted by alt-right and most asian governments are center right too.
And obviously, what's behind these words is not porn, not even brutal loli rape porn, but hate, hate and more hate.
I still fail to see what's the problem with hate. As for Hatreon, it still includes porn. Other "progressive" sites have already failed you about it, so, as I said, if you actually want the freedom to do what you like, including porn, you sadly have to deal with hate, because as you're free to do what you like, everyone else should be free to hate too. Good luck with your hate free site with porn. Oh, wait, it doesn't exist.
Also, what stops the devs from creating their own websites
This have always been a thing. Patreon never was a necessity and it isn't one now either. There's no need for patreon. So basically, you either use hatreon or simply don't. Take a look at the tip jar here.
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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[...] if you actually want the freedom to do what you like, including porn, you sadly have to deal with hate, because as you're free to do what you like, everyone else should be free to hate too.
Pornography is legal in my country, as well as incest ; as long as both partners are consenting adults they can openly live together as a couple and have children, they just can't be married. Even bestiality isn't illegal by itself ; it'll be sanctioned as cruelty against animals, but in a game animals aren't real.
The only thing I'm not sure about is rape. But according to the laws I read, as long as it stay fictional and depict it without trying to promote it, it should probably not be a problem.
In the same time, hate speech (from homophobia to Holocaust denial, including a lot of variations), is illegal. More or less sanctioned depending of the subject, but illegal. We even have a law which can be seen as "against incitement to hatred", so even hate speechs not specifically covered by the law can be sanctioned.
Still it's probably not the best country to host a porntreon, but here I was just answering your affirmation stating that you can't have legal porn without also having legal hate.
 
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starfox31114

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Aug 7, 2017
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Pornography is legal in my country, as well as incest ; as long as both partners are consenting adults they can openly live together as a couple and have children, they just can't be married. Even bestiality isn't illegal by itself ; it'll be sanctioned as cruelty against animals, but in a game animals aren't real.
The only thing I'm not sure about is rape. But according to the laws I read, as long as it stay fictional and depict it without trying to promote it, it should probably not be a problem.
In the same time, hate speech (from homophobia to Holocaust denial, including a lot of variations), is illegal. More or less sanctioned depending of the subject, but illegal. We even have a law which can be seen as "against incitement to hatred", so even hate speechs not specifically covered by the law can be sanctioned.
Still it's probably not the best country to host a porntreon, but here I was just answering your affirmation stating that you can't have legal porn without also having legal hate.
Where the fuck do you live? Germany? That's not the best example ever. Banning "hate speech" is honestly a threat against free speech as a whole. To keep it on topic, is like banning a particular fetish without any reason other than not liking it, morals are subjective so banning something because is morally wrong is stupid. Same with laws, laws vary from country to country, and even if they were all the same, they are pretty arbitrary too, I don't see why they should affect fictional settings, because fiction are usually just words and images of non-existing things. Same with hate speech.
 

starfox31114

Newbie
Aug 7, 2017
38
28
I know this thread is related to Patreon but please stop all discussions about Hate Speech, Free Speech, etc. This is not the intention of this thread.
It is really relevant because if you want to do a website like patreon it would be nice if you're clear in what their errors are. As of now and after the information in the other thread about how to avoid the ban hammer, everything is reduced to how much hypocrite patreon is and how devs have to hide what they do so they can keep doing it. That's pretty much a problem of freedom of speech, and that's just one of the problems with patreon and websites like it.

If you want to make a website like it for porn games, banning games based on arbitrary rules like that will simply result in Patreon 2.0 + porn. It's an honest suggestion.
 

robdelobe

Newbie
Jul 6, 2017
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I have no idea what sort of country could be used. I do have a link to something interesting, though.
It seems like their services could help with opening your own crowd-funding site? Anyways, it seemed interesting to me.
This page has a list of other crowd-funding sites. I haven't looked at any of them so you guys will have to read up on them yourselves. It's a pretty decently sized list so maybe there's something in there for us. That's about all I got.
 

Rech

Newbie
Nov 2, 2016
42
182
I've been thinking... If the biggest issue is the transactions, adult patreon can start without such feature and allow devs to add PayPal "Donate" buttons (or any other payment system) instead. The one thing Patreon lacks the most is the adult content search and it can be easily implemented.

Adult Patreon should focus on easy to use/search games/artists interface first and think about transactions system later, think of it as beta test or something. In the end, if it doesn't acquire enough devs/patrons first there will be no need for transactions.

I also draw the interface:
ghjghghjgjh.jpg hghjgh.png
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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I have no idea what sort of country could be used.
Was reading and some other pages today. Most of them talk only about movies, but you can assume that the same apply to games. And well, there isn't many possibilities. Finding a country where pornography can be distributed is not the sole problem since most of the time pornographic material can't goes against the laws related to sexual practices.

At the end, the less worst option seem to be Spain. Incest is legal as well as BDSM. They have laws against bestiality, but it's legal to sale/distribute/own pornographic material depicting bestiality. They, obviously, have law against rape, but extreme pornography seem to be legal since it depict the act and not promote it. The second less worst is Denmark, but I haven't found if their law against incest interfere with pornography or not.
Note that I haven't done research for each 50ish countries where pornography is legal, so I can have missed some. But mostly there always one point which prevent a country to be a good option ; when they permit one thing, they forbid another.
This said, there a possible loophole. Porntreon (since someone reused my term) don't have the obligation to host the content. So, as long as the games themselves are hosted somewhere else, the only thing on Porntreon would be writing and static pictures. So, it's not anymore pornography strictly speaking, but art... whatever it's good or bad art. And here things are different, countries like Spain, France or Belgium, by example (there's more, but their name don't cross my over saturated mind), can probably let everything be hosted.

Well, at least, I now know a lot about the legality, or not, of BDSM, incest and bestiality, as well as pornography, around the world :D
 
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gamersglory

Xpression Games
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Aug 23, 2017
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Didn't everybody have the same idea the other day? Yep. If you want a way for people to pay without worrying about the view that the payment processors may have use bitcoin and other cryptos as payment. Every CC processor has a Morel's claws in there agreement. Even Japan is changing its laws on porn thanks to international pressure. Thy don't sell loli and other things in shops anymore cus it's banned now
 

random887766

Newbie
Mar 19, 2017
32
52
A way I could see a porntreon type site working would be if it was basically just an offsite front page for a dev's game.

First a game dev would make a page on patreon but leave it basically blank as to what they are actually making or at least comply with patreons guidelines. Then creators could make a page on porntreon exactly like the one they used on patreon to promote their games. Their page on porntreon would have all the information about the game and would be somewhere they could post their free versions. Their porntreon page would have a link to their patreon page.

The porntreon site would not actually collect any money it would basically just be their patreon front page but hosted off site. The creators porntreon page would have a link to their patreon page which is where all the money would be collected and distributed. So the money problem wouldn't be an issue for whoever was running porntreon, but they also wouldn't get any of that sweet milk. Instead to pay for the porntreon site and cover any costs (and this is my favorite part lol) The porntreon site would start a page on patreon.
 

NoesisAndNoema

Member
Game Developer
Oct 3, 2017
282
679
Well... There are a bunch of options... Except for payments...

Credit-cards/paypal will not allow, except in certain instances like Patreon, use for porn of any kind. They consider it to be "high risk", with lots of fraud and returns. (Fraud, for obvious reasons, and returns due to wives/bosses/husbands/parents finding out about certain transactions and reversing them... Or people making false claims of "I didn't purchase that", or "I was not satisfied with my purchase".)

Which leaves the risk to third-parties, which is what Patreon does for PayPal and Credit-Cards. (They allow it, because donations are a lower risk and I am uncertain about the ability to do a "charge-back", since you didn't actually purchase anything.)

I guess that it would be in order to think about something like "Bitcoins" and "Litecoins" and "Etherium" and "Ripple", being the top-most and stable forms of digital funds. Funds which are not explicitly tied to any individual, are irreversible in most cases, for transactions, and are handled by third-parties for cash-out and purchase.

There is also USDT, which is a $1 = $1 always, coin... Used for non-money holdings and exchanges for traders. That coin never goes up or down in value. One USDT is always worth $1 US dollar.

There are plenty of legal places to BUY bitcoins and SELL them, without risk. Actually, easier than paypal and credit-cards too.
 

Paz

Active Member
Aug 9, 2016
907
1,421
Which leaves the risk to third-parties, which is what Patreon does for PayPal and Credit-Cards. (They allow it, because donations are a lower risk and I am uncertain about the ability to do a "charge-back", since you didn't actually purchase anything.
Side-note: Even Patreon had a rough time getting Paypal to agree on having them as a payment processor.
That's why they introduced Paypal supports quite later (could be 2 years after they launched or so), they had to present statistics that showed Patreon had minimal chargeback occurrences etc.
And I seem to recall that the Paypal agreement isn't directly with Paypal, but rather a subsidiary of them, but don't quote me on that.

Bottom line, that's the single biggest hurdle to overcome for anyone that wants to create something similar. Getting payment processors to not laugh at your face (and also appear trustworthy in the general public regarding their CC info, but it goes hand-in-hand).
 

gamersglory

Xpression Games
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Aug 23, 2017
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Side-note: Even Patreon had a rough time getting Paypal to agree on having them as a payment processor.
That's why they introduced Paypal supports quite later (could be 2 years after they launched or so), they had to present statistics that showed Patreon had minimal chargeback occurrences etc.
And I seem to recall that the Paypal agreement isn't directly with Paypal, but rather a subsidiary of them, but don't quote me on that.

Bottom line, that's the single biggest hurdle to overcome for anyone that wants to create something similar. Getting payment processors to not laugh at your face (and also appear trustworthy in the general public regarding their CC info, but it goes hand-in-hand).
I think your thinking of Braintree which is a division of Paypal
 

Paz

Active Member
Aug 9, 2016
907
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I think your thinking of Braintree which is a division of Paypal
Correct, Braintree it is.
Original announcement e-mail:
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Which actually makes it 3 years of Patreon operating and having a good rep of low chargebacks before Paypal even considered teaming up.
That means little chance of a new platform persuading them.
 

xonice

New Member
Jul 7, 2017
2
2
Honestly, if you’re posting about thinking about researching and possibly developing, you probably shouldn’t bother. You’re hardly the first to float some notion of this, but I don’t think you really understand what it takes or how it works; the comments are generally no better so far.

Unless you’re exceptionally wealthy, it just isn’t feasible. Patreon works because of its scale and name recognition. Patreon managed to succeed because it receives millions in venture capital. You don’t just start operating an international platform of any note without serious backing. Without that, you get a niche money-sink. Hell, you’d be surprised how few big internet platforms and services even turn a profit; most operate at significant loss because investors play the long game. Your platform could never hope to attract venture capitalists. In the meantime, there’s staffing, maintenance, and operational costs to consider, not to mention a miasma of insurance costs and liability concerns. Throw in the difficulties of transaction processing and host jumping to keep up with bans, and it’s easy to see that it just isn’t a practical idea.

Setting aside the financial realities, the sort of platform you suggest will attract a handful of desperate fringe projects. Even with the resources to pull it off, you’re looking at running a donor site based around bestiality and rape fetishism; with luck, you might get one or two minor mainstream developers, but the bread & butter would be those who can’t go anywhere else. Before long, your “unrestricted” site will be known as a cesspool, because it only has the most objectionable content. At that point, other creators won’t want to use it. Look at the reactions to the mention of Hatreon; clearly, its reputation is solidified, and you can see why so few would want in on it. An upstart attempt to allow extreme content will be saturated in it before it can build any diversity. You have a small niche donor base for a small niche cadre of developers who, because of the base, likely just try to outdo each other in extremity and little else. With service interruptions, being kicked from one server to another, legal concerns, and constant payment restructuring as processors cut the platform off or go under themselves, these developers are probably better off with a personal blog that has a “Donate” button.

In short, it’s unlikely you can get the necessary capital to even start, and if you somehow found the money, the business model is self-limiting and averse to growth or diversity. It’s a bad idea.
 

Ginji

Lightning Emperor
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May 14, 2017
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each dev must have a paypal account i assume to get paid by patreon,all they need there own website or somewhere they can showcase there project(hello f95) where its upto us to visit and support there projects if we like them.i donated to emily sister attraction i think before patreon
 

Paz

Active Member
Aug 9, 2016
907
1,421
each dev must have a paypal account i assume to get paid by patreon,all they need there own website or somewhere they can showcase there project(hello f95) where its upto us to visit and support there projects if we like them.i donated to emily sister attraction i think before patreon
While this is true (Paypal is an option for creators' payout), it's only feasible because you have Patreon as your "representative" in a sense.

Developers having a Paypal donation button for a form of sustainable and regular income a-la Patreon is a pretty huge bargain since the moment they find out you're dealing with NSFW content you can wave bye-bye to your account (Regardless the fact that creators have been using it in the past, and some still do).

On top of that, going lone wolf with a personal Paypal account opens up a huge can of worms including chargebacks and CC fraud, something which Patreon deals with pre-emptively.