Recommending Story-first games

[Droid Productions]

OK, I've been playing it for a while now and it's really quite good! Is this scene a reference to Close your eyes and think of England? Wow

It is, yes One thing I enjoy doing as I write is to rephrease the same theme in different situations; a bit later MC tells Katie to close her eyes and think for England, to which she replies that she's Scottish, and that ain't gonna make her any LESS angry.

Hope you enjoy it; you're still quite early (current content of Book 2 ends day 160), and the game is still mostly doing the world building, and setting up the story between MC and the key companions.

 

[jufot]

It is, yes One thing I enjoy doing as I write is to rephrease the same theme in different situations; a bit later MC tells Katie to close her eyes and think for England, to which she replies that she's Scottish, and that ain't gonna make her any LESS angry.

Yup, saw that just after posting here I'm around day 35 so far and I'm really enjoying it!

 

[bacienvu88]

If you liked Reluctant Archon you'd probably enjoy Love of Magic as well. Arthurian Urban Fantasy about finding love, saving the world and achieving your destiny.

Yes! Love of Magic is brilliant.

I like _Light of my Life_, particularly the non-traditional (and more realistic and lovely) body shapes and artwork, but the whole stepfather/stepdaughter romance thing... is not my thing. Perhaps I can swallow it with the older stepdaughter... maybe... but certainly not with the younger one. Horses for courses.

Since we're talking about father/daughter relationships, are there any good VN:s from the daughter's perspective? Because that could potentially be better than all those stories where dad more or less takes advantage of his daughter(s) (even if it is sometimes reluctant).

 

[Raife]

Hope you enjoy it; you're still quite early (current content of Book 2 ends day 160), and the game is still mostly doing the world building, and setting up the story between MC and the key companions.

I enjoy your work, Dev -- it's brilliant stuff. As someone who lived in Edinburgh for nearly five years, I also appreciate all the references to real locations. It certainly increases the verisimilitude, and is a great location for a fantasy game. Your art is first class.

The one thing that throws me a bit is the lack of a sense of agency or real choice. Jufot has heard me rant many times that some Devs give players too much choice... which kills narrative and characterization. But if you have too little... it makes the player feel like they are just playing through a great story. Yes... many of your subplots are optional... but I don't get a sense that I'm really shaping the MCs destiny or his relationships with the LIs... at least not in a lasting way.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not advocating that you opt for plot branching. That can also kill narrative integrity, as well as exhausting the dev (and players) by over-complicating matters. I enjoy _Our Red String_ for example... but there are almost too many options.

Perhaps the best model (apologies to those who have heard me say this before) is _Torment_... a game in which the MC largely plays through exactly the same encounters and locations... but where the nature of his relationships, his understanding of the world, and his understanding of himself can change radically, and meaningfully, based on player decisions.

Keep up the good work. I can't wait to see how your current project ends... and what you choose to do next.

 

[Raife]

are there any good VN:s from the daughter's perspective? Because that could potentially be better than all those stories where dad more or less takes advantage of his daughter(s) (even if it is sometimes reluctant).

The closest to the mark could be the brilliant but tragically unfinished (the Dev died) _Lexi_ game, where the MC/father had an entirely positive, affectionate and non-sexual relationship with his young daughter. The dev cleverly made that sweet bond contingent on the MC's duplicitous (but hot) ex-wife, which was a masterstroke. _Lexi_ was probably only 15-20% complete when its creator passed away, and it's still one of my favorites.

I'd love to see a game purely from a female MC/daughter's perspective (where there is no incest). Sadly, apart from you, me and Jufot, I don't think there'd be much player demand...

 

[Droid Productions]

Perhaps the best model (apologies to those who have heard me say this before) is _Torment_... a game in which the MC largely plays through exactly the same encounters and locations... but where the nature of his relationships, his understanding of the world, and his understanding of himself can change radically, and meaningfully, based on player decisions.

I loved Planescape:Torment. For LoM my touchstone was Persona 4 Golden, so... there's a chance some things will appear to have an effect. But I didn't want to fall down the rabbit-hole of being too branching (especially not as a solo dev); the bulk of options are from sidequests started or not. What I did try to do was make replaying the game feel a very different experience than playing it for the first time; a lot of what characters say will sound different the second time you play it

 

[Raife]

I loved Planescape:Torment. For LoM my touchstone was Persona 4 Golden, so... there's a chance some things will appear to have an effect. But I didn't want to fall down the rabbit-hole of being too branching (especially not as a solo dev); the bulk of options are from sidequests started or not. What I did try to do was make replaying the game feel a very different experience than playing it for the first time; a lot of what characters say will sound different the second time you play it

I 100% agree on branching, and I respect all of your choices. It's a great game.

The biggest problem for me is the effect on LIs... in the adult game genre, female LIs are a big focus of player choice and agency for me. If I don't really feel like I have much of a choice as to who the MC ends up with (as opposed to simply who he has sex with)... I don't feel the same sense of satisfaction. But if you're planning on separate endings to your saga... perhaps that will be addressed.

At any rate, great stuff. I don't suppose you'd consider teasing your next project?

 

[Droid Productions]

. But if you're planning on separate endings to your saga... perhaps that will be addressed.

There won't be a 'non-Emily' route, the two of the are basically co-stars in this show, which I know isn't always popular. But I'm hoping to do a couple of alternate endings based on the choices the players made.

 

[M!]

Couple promising games that I didn't see on recommendations, Artemis & A Man for All

 

[jufot]

Couple promising games that I didn't see on recommendations, Artemis & A Man for All

I quite like Artemis! I'd never heard of the other one, but the synopsis ("Hot babes. Sexy encounters.") and some tags (harem, school setting) don't inspire much confidence in terms of the criteria set in the first post. Still, I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation

 

[Raife]

Couple promising games that I didn't see on recommendations, Artemis & A Man for All

I've played Artemis... and its very ambitious. I am not sure what to make of it yet, but I'm following its development. AMFA is new to me -- thanks! The dev's Patreon is promising, in that he has clearly put a great deal of thought into relationships.

Is your avatar Morte? If so, that's very apropos.

 

[Raife]

some tags (harem, school setting) don't inspire much confidence in terms of the criteria set in the first post. Still, I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation

Crap... does it have a harem tag? Uuugh... the kiss of death for realistic portrayals of female LIs. Still, hope springs eternal.

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

I quite like Artemis! I'd never heard of the other one, but the synopsis ("Hot babes. Sexy encounters.") and some tags (harem, school setting) don't inspire much confidence in terms of the criteria set in the first post. Still, I'll check it out. Thanks for the recommendation

I've recommended A man for all as well and I don't know who made that synopsis but it's not accurate at all. The game does a good job at realistic portrayal of women as people with interests and lives beyond mc.
As for tags, I don't know about harem,but you can choose who you wanna pursue,so at the very least you'll be able to avoid harem on your own,and school setting is just there cause mc is doing an experiment and reports back to his teacher nd one of the Li's is in his class,but no fraternities cheerleader frat parties crap if that's what you are afraid of.
you should give it a go

 

[jufot]

I've recommended A man for all as well and I don't know who made that synopsis but it's not accurate at all. The game does a good job at realistic portrayal of women as people with interests and lives beyond mc.
As for tags, I don't know about harem,but you can choose who you wanna pursue,so at the very least you'll be able to avoid harem on your own,and school setting is just there cause mc is doing an experiment and reports back to his teacher nd one of the Li's is in his class,but no fraternities cheerleader frat parties crap if that's what you are afraid of.
you should give it a go

Sounds good, I'll definitely give it a go. Thanks!

 

[Raife]

I've recommended A man for all as well and I don't know who made that synopsis but it's not accurate at all.

I had a go at AMFA late yesterday... and have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, I am a big fan of the variety of looks/facial types among the female LIs (although they are all thin/busty), and the obvious effort that the dev has invested in creating distinctive personalities. The women all look great. There are a fair number of male non-rival characters as well, although none of them are particularly interesting -- with the possible exception of Billy.

But... the game has issues, namely: (1) the narrative is quite dull... there's no feeling of real jeopardy or emotional commitment; (2) in a related point, the female LIs either exist on parallel tracks or seem totally untroubled by the MC's relationships with other women (in a way that doesn't feel realistic); and (3) I have no clue how the game's points/personality mechanics are supposed to work, and the tutorial did not help.

It's conceivable that point 3 will gradually be developed... but at the moment, it seems only partially implemented and has little impact on the narrative.

Thanks for the recommendation, though.

 

[Raife]

Summer Scent
Dog Days of Summer (lesbian, not sure if that interests you)
One day at a time
The Intoxicating Flavour
Halfway House
My Bully Is My Lover
Erastorm Ep.1 Sandstorm

I like _Halfway House_ a great deal, for multiple reasons related to jufot's criteria for this thread. I'm just worried that it's exploding a bit on the Dev, and the complexity and branching might cause him to stall out. He had a tight focus on a few genuinely interesting characters early in the game; I hope he can get back to that.

 

[mr.AwesomeGameTaste]

I had a go at AMFA late yesterday... and have mixed feelings.

On the one hand, I am a big fan of the variety of looks/facial types among the female LIs (although they are all thin/busty), and the obvious effort that the dev has invested in creating distinctive personalities. The women all look great. There are a fair number of male non-rival characters as well, although none of them are particularly interesting -- with the possible exception of Billy.

But... the game has issues, namely: (1) the narrative is quite dull... there's no feeling of real jeopardy or emotional commitment; (2) in a related point, the female LIs either exist on parallel tracks or seem totally untroubled by the MC's relationships with other women (in a way that doesn't feel realistic); and (3) I have no clue how the game's points/personality mechanics are supposed to work, and the tutorial did not help.

It's conceivable that point 3 will gradually be developed... but at the moment, it seems only partially implemented and has little impact on the narrative.

Thanks for the recommendation, though.

I agree with the 1st point,I was only able to get a feeling of connection with Erica,I think that talk in the hotel at night about wanting to go somewhere without neon lights and so on,was quite good.I think her path is nice,but yeah,the rest are as you've described them.I think that the fact that they don't seem bothered is pretty natural at this point, I mean we only have an option to do something with Erica and that classmate,forgot her name.They are the only ones who've met each other too. erica is not the type to be troubled by seeing mc with another woman,and to be honest they were just drinking when the other girl was there,the rest of the Li's just don't cross their paths with the others,and their relationship with the mc is still mostly business related. the 3rd point is what I think too,just have to wait and see

 

[Raife]

I agree with the 1st point,I was only able to get a feeling of connection with Erica,I think that talk in the hotel at night about wanting to go somewhere without neon lights and so on,was quite good.I think her path is nice,but yeah,the rest are as you've described them.I think that the fact that they don't seem bothered is pretty natural at this point, I mean we only have an option to do something with Erica and that classmate,forgot her name.They are the only ones who've met each other too. erica is not the type to be troubled by seeing mc with another woman,and to be honest they were just drinking when the other girl was there,the rest of the Li's just don't cross their paths with the others,and their relationship with the mc is still mostly business related. the 3rd point is what I think too,just have to wait and see

So, I made it all the way through to the end of chapter 5 this morning... and it's improving, for three principal reasons:

• The LIs are starting to interact... they aren't just ships passing in the night anymore, and there are hints that the MC will be forced to make choices;
• The Dev has peeled back the onion a bit more on a few of the LIs, adding greater depth to their personalities (e.g. with Erika, as you say); and
• a few of the male NPCs have started to develop in interesting ways, either as allies or antagonists (or both).

This last point is really important: my favourite story-driven games tend to have a fully-realized (non-'porny') gameworld, with other male NPCs that have three-dimensional personalities and roles (even if they are not, per my personal taste, LIs).

Reading the dev's Patreon, it's clear that he decided to slowly develop the relationships between the MC and the LIs along a fairly uniform progression system, moving through stages (i.e. friend-special friend-lover). That's fine, as a clunky game mechanic... but it's not how most relationships actually work. The alchemy is much more complex. Take two of the strongest games on jufot's list -- _Nothing is Forever_ and _Hillside_ -- which have brilliantly-written LI relationships with the MC. Their relationship progressions look something like this:

Spoiler

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It's the difference between Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or Nirvana's Nevermind and elevator muzak. The AMFA Dev is making progress, but he has a long, long way to go.

[I still don't have a clue how the points/personality types system works; I'm not convinced that it has any impact on choices in the game.]

 

[jufot]

Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or Nirvana's Nevermind and elevator muzak

That's quite the comparison

 

[Raife]

That's quite the comparison

Yeah... we're talking porn games here, so I indulged in a teeny bit of hyperbole. But still... there's a _big_ difference between the top games on your list and the rest.