Recommending Story-first games

[FatGiant]

I wouldn't worry too much about future tags

I would like to know more about why you think like that. I know that the obvious answer is to play the game, but, with the specter of what is predicted in the Future Tags posted by the author, that is truly not in the cards.

So, if it is not that much of an imposition, would you mind telling us (me, actually) more about why they shouldn't be a worry?

Thanks.

Peace

 

[FatGiant]

for what it's worth, i think what you initially wrote in itself was fine for me.

so what's your top 3 or top 5 story-first games?

I don't truly rate things that way. I understand that other people do, I do try to understand their criteria, but, I am unable to create a list like that. Why? Because when I love a story, it's absolute. So really, there are only 2 stages in my rating, the ones I love and the others.

I played a vast majority of those that are on this post OP, most of them I've loved. The ones that I don't fall in love with, are not bad, you see, they simply weren't able to capture my feelings at that time... or something similar.

I was for a period of 4 years, allowed to spend my afternoons in a Bibliotheque. I read a large part of it. It was from my 6 to my 10 years old. I am hyperlexic (the opposite of dyslexic) and I simply couldn't stop reading. If you had asked me how I would rate those books, I would have to give the same response. I simply don't know how to.

Peace

 

[jufot]

It has plenty of porny sex optional and I prolly haven't seen half of it, but it is unusually consensual too for the main protagonist. And it doesn't seem to get much credit for that last part. Even if you find that a low bar.

Casual Desires feels very empty to me, just like GGGB. There is no plot, no rhyme or reason to any of it. It's just a series of vaguely connected sex scenes. Eva's second game ORS at least has a narrative. But you're right, CD is unusually big on consent, however low a bar that is.

Something I noticed was how much they are using "show, don't tell". With plenty of other games, especially in the introduction, everything is spelled out. Sometimes even with a literal narrator.

But not here. They never actually tell us MC's two friends are a couple, it's just obvious. They never tell us what happened to his father, but it's clear that he's gone, and in a way that leaves wife and son missing him.

Agreed. The dev takes full advantage of "show, don't tell." The writing is brief and very light on exposition (always a good sign) and there are multiple renders that subtly shift something - a facial expression, body movement, camera angle - where the player is expected to read the scene and understand whatever emotion it conveys. It's very skilled work we don't usually see in AVNs.

 

[jufot]

I would like to know more about why you think like that. I know that the obvious answer is to play the game, but, with the specter of what is predicted in the Future Tags posted by the author, that is truly not in the cards.

Personally, I don't care about future tags at all. I play games as long as I continue to enjoy them, and if I stop enjoying them, I'll stop playing. It's no big deal.

I used to like The Lost Chapters. One day, out of nowhere with no notice whatsoever, the dev wrote a scene where a woman gets enslaved, raped, and starts to enjoy it. I lost all interest right there and stopped playing. Yet I don't regret playing the game at all because I did enjoy it till then.

 

[FatGiant]

Personally, I don't care about future tags at all. I play games as long as I continue to enjoy them, and if I stop enjoying them, I'll stop playing. It's no big deal.

I used to like The Lost Chapters. One day, out of nowhere with no notice whatsoever, the dev wrote a scene where a woman gets enslaved, raped, and starts to enjoy it. I lost all interest right there and stopped playing. Yet I don't regret playing the game at all because I did enjoy it till then.

I wish I could be like that.

Peace

 

[Jaike]

Casual Desires feels very empty to me, just like GGGB. There is no plot, no rhyme or reason to any of it. It's just a series of vaguely connected sex scenes. Eva's second game ORS at least has a narrative.

Absolutely, and it seems possible to just have the protagonist perform sex acts left and right like... a porny tooth fairy or Santa Claus I guess? There's enough flavour text to have something like character arcs if you go with 1 or 2 partners per playthrough though. But the emptiness is very common with pure slice-of-life games. Contrast a more plot-driven one like JOHN with the newspaper job.

Eva's second game ORS at least has a narrative.

How do the 2 protagonists work there? Are there big content imbalances between the male and female protagonist?

 

[365 others]

I was for a period of 4 years, allowed to spend my afternoons in a Bibliotheque. I read a large part of it. It was from my 6 to my 10 years old. I am hyperlexic (the opposite of dyslexic) and I simply couldn't stop reading. If you had asked me how I would rate those books, I would have to give the same response. I simply don't know how to.

Now I learned something new today! I wonder if that's what I had (never consulted any doctor). I started reading quite early, and in my pre-teens and teen years, I was reading an average of 1 - 2 books per day. My parents' punishment was not letting me read for a couple of days rather than not letting me go out to play or watch TV (not that it made much difference). I googled the term and could mark most of the boxes for it.

Casual Desires feels very empty to me, just like GGGB. There is no plot, no rhyme or reason to any of it. It's just a series of vaguely connected sex scenes. Eva's second game ORS at least has a narrative. But you're right, CD is unusually big on consent, however low a bar that is.

I didn't like ORS as I felt it was kind of pushy towards NTR/sharing. Maybe it was just my impression, but I got overwhelmed with all the options both MCs had to cheat or end up in a slutty/sugar daddy path, many of them on the line of "either be my plaything or I'll finish yours and your boyfriend's lives". I tried to avoid as much as I could but there were still situations that I disliked and that ended up making me feel tired of it.

 

[jufot]

How do the 2 protagonists work there? Are there big content imbalances between the male and female protagonist?

The 2 protags can either be together or date others, though Lena's options are more slutty / corruption oriented. Beyond that, they are fairly balanced.

I didn't like ORS as I felt it was kind of pushy towards NTR/sharing. Maybe it was just my impression, but I got overwhelmed with all the options both MCs had to cheat or end up in a slutty/sugar daddy path,

I'm not aware of any NTR in ORS. There are a few paths with sharing, but they are signposted pretty well, so it'd be difficult to stumble into them. The game does encourage sluttiness for both protagonists though, especially for Lena.

 

[yossa999]

I didn't like ORS as I felt it was kind of pushy towards NTR/sharing. Maybe it was just my impression, but I got overwhelmed with all the options both MCs had to cheat or end up in a slutty/sugar daddy path, many of them on the line of "either be my plaything or I'll finish yours and your boyfriend's lives". I tried to avoid as much as I could but there were still situations that I disliked and that ended up making me feel tired of it.

This is why I don't like most of the "corruption games." ORS is not even the worst example (at least it wasn't when I played it last time, maybe a year ago or more). But most of them essentially only contain the corruption route, but for some reason they bashfully pretend that the player seems to have a choice. When actually, these decisions essentially only affect whether the lewd content is shown or not. As a player, I expect there to be at least two different arcs for the character depending on whether they succumb to corruption or resist it. But it seems like most writers can't handle this and tell the same basic story, only the character is having fun on the corruption route and not on the other. So what is the point of these decisions then? Isn't it better to honestly admit that content exists only for the corruption route? Like Casey's Fall, a typical game of this type where the blackmailer forces FMC to do all sorts of things. But early in the game there is a choice to refuse the blackmailer's demands (which is an obvious choice for any sane person). The game then simply ends with a "happy ending" where FMC gets married, has children, and lives happily ever after.
Although it is much nastier when the game still follows the corruption path, and the character's decisions only affect their attitude towards what is happening, for example, whether they accept blackmail/dominance and enjoys submission or are being forced.

 

[365 others]

The 2 protags can either be together or date others, though Lena's options are more slutty / corruption oriented. Beyond that, they are fairly balanced.


I'm not aware of any NTR in ORS. There are a few paths with sharing, but they are signposted pretty well, so it'd be difficult to stumble into them. The game does encourage sluttiness for both protagonists though, especially for Lena.

Perhaps it is the concept I have of the term then, I'll check the definition the site has. What I disliked quite a lot was exactly the last part. I'm not sure if I would call it encouragement, as it is for any if not all the male characters as well as some female characters out there. I perceived as if the VN was asking "Wanna cheat? Are you sure? 100% sure? how about now?" And that is even if you're in a supposedly happy relationship with the male MC.

In one of my saves, I remember accepting the MMC sleep with the work friend, while FMC (Lena) had slept around with her girlfriend and another dude. She eventually finds out (If I recall correctly, the MMC tells her or something) and she breaks up with him. I wouldn't mind that result if it was not for the fact that she was doing even worse and still had the cojones to judge and condemn the MMC for the same thing she was already doing.

 

[desmosome]

I'm not aware of any NTR in ORS. There are a few paths with sharing, but they are signposted pretty well, so it'd be difficult to stumble into them. The game does encourage sluttiness for both protagonists though, especially for Lena.

There is definitely NTR, but as you can imagine, you control both protagonist, so it depends entirely on you to engineer the relationships.

The female protag can basically have a romantic relationship with the male protag, or she can be a slut for various fuckbois (and an old man). She can also enter the "romantic" relationship with the male protag and repeatedly cheat on him because she wants to or because she gets seduced/coerced.

The male protag can have a romantic relationship with the female protag, or he can have other romance leaning relationships with various other girls, with some of them being a little more spicy but not anywhere near as filthy as whatever the fem protag is able to do. He can also cheat on her.

The funny thing is they are both victims of past cheating and that is a salient part of the narrative, but they can cheat on each other all the time ha.

Anyways, this is a character driven story and mostly just revolves around the extreme flexibility in the web of relationships and the shittons of variables that sets in the code. There is not much of a real plot other than how these people's relationships develop. The rare times I would forgo doing a standard corruption/NTR/cheating/fucked up playthrough would be for story driven narratives, not character driven ones, so this one was completely an NTR run for me

 

[365 others]

The funny thing is they are both victims of past cheating and that is a salient part of the narrative, but they can cheat on each other all the time ha.

Really? I remember from the plot that the MMC's ex broke up with him for not wanting the same thing (I think it was moving or something?), but I didn't continue playing after they met again in the city (Chapter 9, I think?).

 

[Lustfallen]

This is why I don't like most of the "corruption games." ORS is not even the worst example (at least it wasn't when I played it last time, maybe a year ago or more). But most of them essentially only contain the corruption route, but for some reason they bashfully pretend that the player seems to have a choice. When actually, these decisions essentially only affect whether the lewd content is shown or not. As a player, I expect there to be at least two different arcs for the character depending on whether they succumb to corruption or resist it. But it seems like most writers can't handle this and tell the same basic story, only the character is having fun on the corruption route and not on the other. So what is the point of these decisions then? Isn't it better to honestly admit that content exists only for the corruption route? Like Casey's Fall, a typical game of this type where the blackmailer forces FMC to do all sorts of things. But early in the game there is a choice to refuse the blackmailer's demands (which is an obvious choice for any sane person). The game then simply ends with a "happy ending" where FMC gets married, has children, and lives happily ever after.
Although it is much nastier when the game still follows the corruption path, and the character's decisions only affect their attitude towards what is happening, for example, whether they accept blackmail/dominance and enjoys submission or are being forced.

You raise so many good points that it becomes difficult to respond in an articulate way, especially for me as English is not my native language. I'll try. Sorry if I'm wrong.

The point is that this AVN, even if 'story first,' is always a product written for porn, and the corruption paths are the ones that can have more varied situations of that type, if we want to be honest, even more fun. The problem is that in real life, these paths have consequences that these AVNs don't show. Corruption paths in real life, while immediately leading to more fun, also often lead to broken people, a lack of meaningful relationships, and other less-than-pleasant things.

It would be ideal that, to balance the greater quantity of scenes that the player can see by choosing the corruptive path, the author then shows the negative side of these choices, the consequences. But then you'd have people complaining because they're here for the porn, not to reflect or mope.

 

[yossa999]

You raise so many good points that it becomes difficult to respond in an articulate way, especially for me as English is not my native language. I'll try. Sorry if I'm wrong.

The point is that this AVN, even if 'story first,' is always a product written for porn, and the corruption paths are the ones that can have more varied situations of that type, if we want to be honest, even more fun. The problem is that in real life, these paths have consequences that these AVNs don't show. Corruption paths in real life, while immediately leading to more fun, also often lead to broken people, a lack of meaningful relationships, and other less-than-pleasant things.

It would be ideal that, to balance the greater quantity of scenes that the player can see by choosing the corruptive path, the author then shows the negative side of these choices, the consequences. But then you'd have people complaining because they're here for the porn, not to reflect or mope.

Yeah, I agree with you in many respects! Therefore, this thread is the last hideout from the hordes of "Sex when?"-ers

But I still believe that as competition in the AVN niche increases, the more authors will focus on plot, characters, relationships, mysteries and move further away from porny plots. The level of graphics has grown very much recently. I don’t know why is that, perhaps 3d modeling programs have become more advanced and newbie friendly. But I've been noticing for a long time that many rookie developers show very high quality graphics and very visually appealing characters from the very beginning. But the stories about the adventures of Night Molester touching his landlady and roommates at sleep remained the same.

Fortunately I have worked hard enough to select authors who primarily make the plot (thanks to help of this thread, btw), and sex in the good-written AVNs is just an spicy addition, a part of life, the explicit demonstration of which is still taboo in the public space (every year it becomes less and less taboo) but is nevertheless an important part of human relationships. So a dozen good games is enough not to lose faith in this genre

 

[365 others]

Fortunately I have worked hard enough to select authors who primarily make the plot (thanks to help of this thread, btw), and sex in the good-written AVNs is just an spicy addition, a part of life, the explicit demonstration of which is still taboo in the public space (every year it becomes less and less taboo) but is nevertheless an important part of human relationships. So a dozen good games is enough not to lose faith in this genre

Are these the ones in your signature? Or do you have a full list? I'd like to compare notes, if you don't mind

 

[noping123]

Yeah, I agree with you in many respects! Therefore, this thread is the last hideout from the hordes of "Sex when?"-ers

But I still believe that as competition in the AVN niche increases, the more authors will focus on plot, characters, relationships, mysteries and move further away from porny plots. The level of graphics has grown very much recently. I don’t know why is that, perhaps 3d modeling programs have become more advanced and newbie friendly. But I've been noticing for a long time that many rookie developers show very high quality graphics and very visually appealing characters from the very beginning. But the stories about the adventures of Night Molester touching his landlady and roommates at sleep remained the same.

Fortunately I have worked hard enough to select authors who primarily make the plot (thanks to help of this thread, btw), and sex in the good-written AVNs is just an spicy addition, a part of life, the explicit demonstration of which is still taboo in the public space (every year it becomes less and less taboo) but is nevertheless an important part of human relationships. So a dozen good games is enough not to lose faith in this genre

Speaking as a complete degenerate of a dev - it's hard to balance sometimes. I'll use a comment from my game's thread plus my own thoughts to illustrate this point:

Yes I just finished up chapter 3 and Im disappointed.... That I have wait for the next update cause I'm really enjoying this story. Great fckn job dev! I was hoping I would get to bang Clara but patience has it's perks. Really excited to see where this is going and how it all unfolds. My only wish is more lewd content but other than that.... Good shit there!

As you can probably guess, as of chapter 3, there are 0 scenes with Clara. You do not know how many times I was tempted to write a scene or two with her throughout the course of development. There were times I *really* wanted to.

On the other hand, I have a literal notepad file I keep open that have notes like "THERE WILL BE NO SCENES WITH HER UNTIL CHAPTER # AT MINIMUM THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SLOWLY DEVELOPING RELATIONSHIP" (obviously I have the actual chapter number in my notes, but I wouldn't give THAT away, now would I?!)

I have all this stuff written out and planned out, but at the same time I keep running into situations where I *really* want to do scenes with various characters - and I have to keep that notepad file around just to remind myself "No, you'll ruin the story if you do that, jackass".

On the other hand, as the dev I do have the benefit of being able to create all sorts of renders no one will ever see. (That's right - I actually have a folder full of renders that no one will ever see who's sole creation was to get it out of my system so I could continue with the story as it should be - not as the degenerate in me wanted it to be for a day)

All of this is to say - It's not always about the fans wanting "Sex now!". Sometimes the devs have to have their hands slapped too.

 

[yossa999]

Are these the ones in your signature? Or do you have a full list? I'd like to compare notes, if you don't mind

Mostly those in my signature and some of them are pretty porny, but I never claimed I'm a story only guy
If an author can explore the sexuality of the characters without turning the game into a set of porn clips, I'm all for it!

My signature is an answer to myself to the question: "If you are only allowed to play five AVN and no more, what will you choose"
But I can easy add to the list:

Corporate Culture
STWA: Unbroken
Isabella: Chasing Shadows
Yesterday's Crossroads
Pecker PI
Zero End
Beyond Tomorrow

It breaks my heart that Connected and The Intoxicating Flavour are abandoned. Connected, if it hadn't been abandoned, would probably be on the same shelf as Summer's Gone, my favorite AVN.

 

[yossa999]

Speaking as a complete degenerate of a dev - it's hard to balance sometimes. I'll use a comment from my game's thread plus my own thoughts to illustrate this point:



As you can probably guess, as of chapter 3, there are 0 scenes with Clara. You do not know how many times I was tempted to write a scene or two with her throughout the course of development. There were times I *really* wanted to.

On the other hand, I have a literal notepad file I keep open that have notes like "THERE WILL BE NO SCENES WITH HER UNTIL CHAPTER # AT MINIMUM THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SLOWLY DEVELOPING RELATIONSHIP" (obviously I have the actual chapter number in my notes, but I wouldn't give THAT away, now would I?!)

I have all this stuff written out and planned out, but at the same time I keep running into situations where I *really* want to do scenes with various characters - and I have to keep that notepad file around just to remind myself "No, you'll ruin the story if you do that, jackass".

On the other hand, as the dev I do have the benefit of being able to create all sorts of renders no one will ever see. (That's right - I actually have a folder full of renders that no one will ever see who's sole creation was to get it out of my system so I could continue with the story as it should be - not as the degenerate in me wanted it to be for a day)

All of this is to say - It's not always about the fans wanting "Sex now!". Sometimes the devs have to have their hands slapped too.

Come on bro, publish these renders as DLC on Steam, or as customs for the upper tiers. I think everyone will benefit, you will let off steam and not spoil the plot, since they are not canon, and fappers will refill their fap folder

 

[noping123]

Come on bro, publish these renders as DLC on Steam, or as customs for the upper tiers. I think everyone will benefit, you will let off steam and not spoil the plot, since they are not canon, and fappers will refill their fap folder

Never.

.... well maybe not never but...

I have a rule. I will never ever publish any render that shows more than has appeared in-game.

 

[yossa999]

Never.

.... well maybe not never but...

I have a rule. I will never ever publish any render that shows more than has appeared in-game.

That's good point, can't argue with that.

But frankly, if I had the talent and desire to do AVN, I would fucking squeeze everything I could out of my work! Having observed the local public for quite a long time, no moral and ethical standards would have stopped me! Yes, I would fucking arrange fetish auctions for them!
The next lot is an NTR scene with your favorite character. Vote up or down with your money. Who will pay more, the NTR swinger club or the Anti-NTR Inquisition? Every whim for your money.