Patreon Account Selling Pirated Games - Developers Beware

[W65]

Can someone explain to me the difference between what the person on patreon is doing, compared to any dev that uses Honey Select for example as a base for their game. After all Honey Select is owned by Illusion Company and FAKKU paid for the license to release Unlimited. But devs will release Honey Select based games on patreon and take money for something that is not originally their work.

I mean, it kinda depends on how Illusion licenses HS to its users. Their terms might specifically provide for derivative works.

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least some Japanese games using HS specifically (not my scene; can't be sure--I KNOW that 3D Custom Girl was often used for that), so if Illusion was interested in moving legally they'd have standing venue whatever (not a lawyer lol) with respect to the Japanese groups, at least. Then again, I'm not a Japanese legal scholar and maybe the licensing idea is weaker over there.

Now, if the folks using HS in their games are using pirated copies of HS, then they're on much shakier ground. Can't speak to any specific developers, but I'd be amazed if there weren't at least a few out there doing this.

Same basic ideas would apply to DAS's stuff and Source Filmmaker, except that those are more or less designed to be environments for stuff to be created in--I'm pretty certain the terms of use for those are probably pretty explicit about what you can and can't do, or at least how much you have to pay to do what you want to do. HS is probably harder because I don't know if they get a lot of English purchasers, and so who knows if they even have EN-language ToUs.

Of course, none of that has to do with pirating video games, which is redistributing instead of producing some kind of derivative work.

Disclaimer: I'm not a legal scholar.

EDIT: Actually, I know for something close to a fact (fact-like? has the fact nature?) that a bunch of the Japanese doujin software scene runs on the idea of copyright being weaker in Japan. You can get away with stuff like censoring one letter in a character's name and the folks owning the original IP probably won't come down on you with a legal hammer. Part of it's just cultural differences, I guess.

In fact, I remember one recently released doujin game that actually had to patch a character's appearance and the title screen of the game because they were too similar to some other Japanese IP--and that situation, I think, was actually pretty unusual. Didn't hear the Japanese side of things, but since you basically never see that sort of thing done I'm not completely sure why that shook out the way that it did.

(I'm kind of a big deal when it comes to half-told Japanese porn game anecdotes that go nowhere.)

 

[Runey]

@Runey @Perverteer @T4bbo @Faerin @gamersglory @Fasder @DrPinkCake @GDS @Philly_Games @HopesGaming

Sorry for the tags, but I hope you'll forgive me when you read the OP



I was gonna report this Patreon, but the only way to do so is a DMCA claim, and I haven't found my titles on it. Yours are however.

There's nothing inherently wrong with piracy, it's how we get exposure, but if that piracy is used to profit someone else for our work, then it becomes theft.

Thanks for tagging me.

I'm coming into this not having read any of the posts, so excuse me if I repeat things already mentioned here.

I'm in a group with over 50 other devs, I believe they all know about this as well. Apparently one of them has directly contacted a Patreon Employee. Whether or not they're going to do something, I don't know.

When I linked her patreon page in my discord, one of the members has apparently found out she sells pinups as well. Would be a shame if someone bought all her pinups and sold them for $1

I'm sure what she's doing is completely against Patreon's guidelines, if not actually illegal. While most of us don't actually sell things, just ask for donations, she's legitimately selling content already on Patreon.

I've heard Illusion will not accept someone selling a game made of their assets. It being free however, I've heard is completely fine. (Although there is a Steam game being sold for like $3 made out of Illusion assets, so I don't think Illusion is that adamant about it)

While it is annoying when a beta version of my game (locked to patrons mainly for bug testing) is leaked on f95 or somewhere else, they are at least not selling it. And they're giving devs credit for making it, most of them even include a link to our Patreons. So in the end, that's perfectly fine for me.

Even if she gave us credit, she's still selling our games. She's not asking for donations for games, she's legitimately selling my, and other dev's, games without our permission. Even if she made all of our games as free downloads, it would still rub me the wrong way.

 

[Chatterbox]

That guy is a total asshole. I could care less if my game shows up on F95, but for someone else to charge money for my game, no...that shit has to stop.

 

[おい！]

So you know that a lot of DJ/music producers sample other people's work to create a new song? A lot of music that's made it to the radio has been taking little sound bytes or instrumental sections to create an entirely new song. For example, listen to the intro of Charles Aznavours song

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. Sounds quite a lot like Dre's

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, right? This is what the devs using Honey Select models are doing. They are using a part of someone else's work to create something new. A lot of long hours and hard effort goes into this. Of course most musicians gain permission or pay some sort of licensing cost. Most devs are doing this as a hobby and would never be able to afford proper licensing.

What Miagamehouse patreon page is doing however, is the equivalent of buying an album and then ripping it onto a bunch of CDs and selling them (Guess this example makes more sense 15 years ago). There is absolutely little to no effort required. They aren't changing the product or putting any sort of artistic spin on it. They are just trying to make money off of someone else's work. More importantly, the people they are stealing from are usually already making far less from this hobby than they would by just getting a minimum wage job somewhere.

Not all musicians pay for copyrighted material

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but still make money on it and sometimes get caught out.

You can correct me if I am wrong, Honey Select can be downloaded for free, Ren'Py is available for free. So someone if they want to can create a game for free and share it on patreon. The only thing it has cost them is time.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying that Miagamehouse is doing anything morally right or that all devs do not put any effort in to their games. I am just pointing out how some devs can provide games for patreon without any original content except for Storyline and many also have not so original stories such as shagging mom/sister/sisters/daughter/aunt etc......

 

[Bloo]

Besides the obvious; They're tagging the games with these:

Incest:

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Mind Control:

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Bestiality:

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Rape:

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Patreon Community Guidelines

We have zero tolerance when it comes to the glorification of sexual violence which includes bestiality, rape, and child exploitation (i.e., sexualized depiction of minors).

GJ enforcing your policies, you banned fuck knows how many legit creators from the platform, but you don't notice an account using your blacklisted keywords on fucking tags lol

 

[DownTheDrain]

You can correct me if I am wrong, Honey Select can be downloaded for free, Ren'Py is available for free. So someone if they want to can create a game for free and share it on patreon. The only thing it has cost them is time.

When I work an office job I don't have to pay for the office or any of the equipment in it either. All it costs me is time and effort.
By your logic a lot of us wouldn't deserve a paycheck.

 

[W65]

When I work an office job I don't have to pay for the office or any of the equipment in it either. All it costs me is time and effort.
By your logic a lot of us wouldn't deserve a paycheck.

Um, but anything you produce on company time also most likely belongs to the people who employ you, depending on your employment contract. Hell, stuff you make with company resources NOT on company time probably belongs to them. Double hell, I've even heard of people who get into contracts where anything related to their work belongs to the company, even if they make it on their own time with their own resources.

I, uh, I am actually getting kinda lost in the metaphor (not hard for me these days) so I'm not sure if that's relevant to the argument or not.

 

[Runey]

Let's remember this thread is meant to talk about someone recycling Patreon content.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Um, but anything you produce on company time also most likely belongs to the people who employ you, depending on your employment contract. Hell, stuff you make with company resources NOT on company time probably belongs to them. Double hell, I've even heard of people who get into contracts where anything related to their work belongs to the company, even if they make it on their own time with their own resources.

I, uh, I am actually getting kinda lost in the metaphor (not hard for me these days) so I'm not sure if that's relevant to the argument or not.

I was trying to make the point that a lot of jobs only require time and effort and you still get paid without having to purchase the tools to do them. Of course you don't own the product, hence the paycheck.
I could change my example to various kinds of freelance work that you could do with free tools if you really want to argue details but I don't see how that's particularly relevant here.

Let's remember this thread is meant to talk about someone recycling Patreon content.

Fair enough, sorry for derailing.
By all means go ahead and get that asshole permabanned.

 

[Winterfire]

Not all musicians pay for copyrighted material

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You must be registered to see the links

but still make money on it and sometimes get caught out.

You can correct me if I am wrong, Honey Select can be downloaded for free, Ren'Py is available for free. So someone if they want to can create a game for free and share it on patreon. The only thing it has cost them is time.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying that Miagamehouse is doing anything morally right or that all devs do not put any effort in to their games. I am just pointing out how some devs can provide games for patreon without any original content except for Storyline and many also have not so original stories such as shagging mom/sister/sisters/daughter/aunt etc......

It is simply transformative work.
It is basically the difference between sharing a pokemon rom game (piracy) or using the pokemon rom game by changing things like dialogue, graphics, maps... (Fan-game/Hack rom).

In my example, both are disliked by Nintendo but neither make money but it is obvious that a transformative work takes a lot more effort than simply sharing it.
What they are doing is "Piracy" but they are asking for money as well.

 

[monroe]

This is kinda like SVS copying our links and posting them to k2s and other ppd sites to earn cash off devs >.<

 

[Winterfire]

This is even worse since that cash comes from the people "buying" a stolen game rather than cash made by advertisements.
Also... I have found their youtube channel, funny how they define themselves as "Game creators"

 

[DownTheDrain]

This is kinda like SVS copying our links and posting them to k2s and other ppd sites to earn cash off devs >.<

That's a step or two more removed though and SVS often has updates before F95, even if their filehosters are shit.
This patreon thief is a whole new level of brazen and stupid.

 

[thecardinal]

Hahahaha, for $15/month you can get save files and a compressed version.

Also they aren't buying the games. Even though the games are often free on the dev's Patreon, MiaGameHouse is using F95zone mega links and not the devs. Fucking lol

 

[Runey]

This is kinda like SVS copying our links and posting them to k2s and other ppd sites to earn cash off devs >.<

I don't entirely agree.

SVS isn't as good as other sites are to devs, but any site that lists games is advertising that game, and that's a huge thing for devs. SVS does however, actually credit us.

Their website is awful compared to others, don't know why anyone would go there, but besides that, I'm happy my game is up there simply because more people get to play it.

This person however, isn't advertising our games, they aren't giving us credit, and finally, they're selling it.

 

[Agent HK47]

I seriously can't stand people who tries to profit from other people's hard work. Pirating is one thing, but outright stealing from others and re-selling their products for an easy buck, is just disgusting.

I wish this guy to be forced to watch the 2018 youtube rewind, once every hour of every day in 2019.

 

[Sam]

As another user said on a discord server earlier, users who pay this person for access is less likely to contribute to the original developer. Some of the patrons are probably under the impression that he's the creator of this content as well.

This person has put a paywall over content which they do not own, piracy for profit is detestable.

 

[DownTheDrain]

Some of the patrons are probably under the impression that he's the creator of this content as well.

Hundreds of games for one dollar per month? Yeah, no, not buying it.
Then again, it takes a special kind of clueless to pay any amount of money for clearly stolen content so maybe you're right.

 

[Avaron1974]

You know you've found dumb people when the very idea of piracy is to get stuff free yet they pay.

Fools and their money.

 

[おい！]

When I work an office job I don't have to pay for the office or any of the equipment in it either. All it costs me is time and effort.
By your logic a lot of us wouldn't deserve a paycheck.

What has your job got to do with this thread? Did I mention jobs in any of my posts? I am trying to keep my posts on the subject of the thread. You tell what jobs and music has to do with this thread. Are you employed by patreon? Did you just turn up at the first office you saw and decide to sit in front of a computer for x number of hours and days?
I also work and do not pay for the tools I use, but I am employed to fabricate things. I do not build things unless they are ordered buy the customer first. But that has nothing to do with this thread.