Licensing Fees for Assets

[fapman2000]

Hey Everyone. I'm working with a bud on developing a visual novel and we're both a bit stuck on the visual part of the game. My bud has been learning Daz3D and what not, but he keeps getting discouraged because of all the extra stuff involved with creating assets. Not so much on the creation part because he's actually getting pretty good at modeling, but more from the sense of the monetary side of things.

As I understand it, all of the assets that get used in these games are either custom created or use stuff available online, but that raises a question of commercial use. I've seen the same models used in multiple games in the past, so I'm curious to what capacity people are able to use assets.

Example, a model is created in Daz3D using XYZ assets from ABC artists. Daz3D has an option for licensing these assets, but that's about $30 PER ASSET plus the cost of the asset. And yes, I'm aware there is free stuff available and licensed for commercial use, but not everything is available out there for commercial use.

So what's the deal? Are people just spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on licensing for all these assets? Are people just super talented and able to build every single item or model in the game custom? Or is there really not much of a concern considering the market when it comes to monetization of a visual novel?

Also, to what capacity is something considered "copyrighted" or not available for commercial use? Like if an environment asset is used in the game with no modification, is that asset still subject to copyright? Or if the color is changed, does that change anything? To what extent does the asset hold it's copyright in which the artist could pursue legal action against the game developer using the asset?

Just trying to understand the logistics of taking a game to market because if creating a visual novel is going to end up costing thousands of dollars to potential not even be liked by the community, it seems like it might be a lost cause.

Thanks in advance for any insight that can be provided!

 

[peterppp]

Example, a model is created in Daz3D using XYZ assets from ABC artists. Daz3D has an option for licensing these assets, but that's about $30 PER ASSET plus the cost of the asset. And yes, I'm aware there is free stuff available and licensed for commercial use, but not everything is available out there for commercial use.

if you're talking about the interactive license, it's optional and only needed if you're gonna use or distribute the assets in 3d in your game. if you render images and put them in the game, that's just 2d and you don't need an extra license for that

 

[anne O'nymous]

Example, a model is created in Daz3D using XYZ assets from ABC artists. Daz3D has an option for licensing these assets, but that's about $30 PER ASSET plus the cost of the asset.

Ah, if at least Daz had

You must be registered to see the links

explaining what are the licenses, how they works and where they apply, people wouldn't need to rely on a pirate community when they have question about them.

And yes, I'm aware there is free stuff available and licensed for commercial use, but not everything is available out there for commercial use.

I'm not good with basic reasoning, but I wonder, could that mean that it's not intended to be used commercially ?

So what's the deal? Are people just spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on licensing for all these assets?

Yes they are. An average Daz user dev starts his project with an US$ 2,000 expense that he hope to see payed back through the lifetime of his project. This while knowing that his expenses will increase anytime he'll have to add new content.

Also, to what capacity is something considered "copyrighted" or not available for commercial use? Like if an environment asset is used in the game with no modification, is that asset still subject to copyright?

If you use a rental car, isn't that car still the property of the rental company ? If you have an accident with this car, isn't it you who's seen as legal responsible for it ?

Or if the color is changed, does that change anything? To what extent does the asset hold it's copyright in which the artist could pursue legal action against the game developer using the asset?

"

You must be registered to see the links

"
Emphasis is mine.

Just trying to understand the logistics of taking a game to market because if creating a visual novel is going to end up costing thousands of dollars to potential not even be liked by the community, it seems like it might be a lost cause.

Welcome to the real world.

If you want to not spend a dime, use an Illusion studio.



Edit: fixed a formatting error.

 

[fapman2000]

if you're talking about the interactive license, it's optional and only needed if you're gonna use or distribute the assets in 3d in your game. if you render images and put them in the game, that's just 2d and you don't need an extra license for that

So, if I was to create 100 images that form a lewd scene, that would be okay, but if I create a 3D video of the models, that would require the interactive license?

 

[coffeeaddicted]

So, if I was to create 100 images that form a lewd scene, that would be okay, but if I create a 3D video of the models, that would require the interactive license?

If you publish something, you need to have a license in form of a receipt (digital).
Is that so hard to understand?
If the asset was distributed as a freebie, then of course not.

Now, in reality, i didn't hear from someone that the asset creator went after them for verifying the proof of purchase.
It's a gamble. If you are willing to do that, it's your party with all the consequences.

 

[peterppp]

So, if I was to create 100 images that form a lewd scene, that would be okay, but if I create a 3D video of the models, that would require the interactive license?

you don't need the interactive license in either case. for the video, the end product, the video, is not 3d, it's still 2d. everything is pre-rendered and the user is not actively doing anything to interact with/change a 3d environment. if you move around in a 3d game world, you're interactive in 3d.

it's explained in the standard agreement in the link anne provided

• Terms of Use. Two-Dimensional Works. Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, User may (i) access, use, copy and modify the Content in the creation and presentation of two-dimensional animations and renderings, (ii) incorporate two-dimensional images (including two-dimensional images that simulate motion of three-dimensional objects) derived by User from the Content in User's other works, and (iii) publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense User's two-dimensional animations, renderings and other works; provided that User may not in any case publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any renderings, animations, software applications, data or any other product from which any Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the Content can be separately exported, extracted or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format.

 

[woody554]

So, if I was to create 100 images that form a lewd scene, that would be okay, but if I create a 3D video of the models, that would require the interactive license?

as far as I remember the interactive license is for interactive use, as in using the models in an unreal game. where as renders OF them are not interactive use, and also I think they specifically say that daz has no rights regarding the RENDERS made with daz3d.

that said, there are people who have spent their meager real world job salaries for years to buy daz assets for what seems is a nonsexual hobby use. I guess you gotta use your money on something if you're not a fan of coke and whores.

 

[anne O'nymous]

So, if I was to create 100 images that form a lewd scene, that would be okay, but if I create a 3D video of the models, that would require the interactive license?

I admit that I messed the formatting what made it ambiguous, but what is hard to understand in what I quoted from Daz base license: "User may not in any case publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any [...] product from which any Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the Content can be separately exported, extracted or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format."

The base license, that is automatically granted when buying the asset, except if explicitly said otherwise, is what you need as long as the assets, or a part of them, can not be retrieved back from your game's data.
Obviously a video do not permit to get access he assets, nor a part of them, and therefore do not need the interactive license.

Now, in reality, i didn't hear from someone that the asset creator went after them for verifying the proof of purchase.

Daz is doing it for games that need the Interactive license (so mostly Unreal and Unity games). But yeah, never heard about a control for games that only need the base license.
This is probably due to the fact that with a render you don't have the possibility to prove that it's precisely "that" asset that have been used. Like the charge of proof (direct translation, so not sure it's the right English term) in such case is the complainant's responsibility, starting an international lawsuit for copyright infringement is, in this case, more hazardous.

 

[coffeeaddicted]

I admit that I messed the formatting what made it ambiguous, but what is hard to understand in what I quoted from Daz base license: "User may not in any case publish, market, distribute, transfer, sell or sublicense any [...] product from which any Content, or any part thereof, or any substantially similar version of the Content can be separately exported, extracted or de-compiled into any re-distributable form or format."

The base license, that is automatically granted when buying the asset, except if explicitly said otherwise, is what you need as long as the assets, or a part of them, can not be retrieved back from your game's data.
Obviously a video do not permit to get access he assets, nor a part of them, and therefore do not need the interactive license.




Daz is doing it for games that need the Interactive license (so mostly Unreal and Unity games). But yeah, never heard about a control for games that only need the base license.
This is probably due to the fact that with a render you don't have the possibility to prove that it's precisely "that" asset that have been used. Like the charge of proof (direct translation, so not sure it's the right English term) in such case is the complainant's responsibility, starting an international lawsuit for copyright infringement is, in this case, more hazardous.

I think for some assets its probably true. Some others it is easy to see what it is. Like for example those stripper shoes called Nikkohl. Great asset but if you use that, it is easily identified.
I can nod my head to unity and such. Though, did you mean VN that run on Unity?
Anyway, idealy you should pay up but i know it isn't easy since it adds up so quickly. I am contemplating right now if i may make a game but boy, the assets i already use would ruin me if i had to buy them.
Worst, some assets are a pain in the bud and you can't test them legally. I assume the thinking is, any asset works. Its the dev that is incapable.
So all these download sites that litter the internet where you can download assets are a real gift. At least you can test it.
And i think that the company behind DAZ wouldn't want to waste their resources to go after some zero with no income. What a waste that would be. Ok, unless he has a hit perhaps but i haven't read something anywhere. Though that doesn't mean they paid either. lol

 

[anne O'nymous]

Some others it is easy to see what it is. Like for example those stripper shoes called Nikkohl. Great asset but if you use that, it is easily identified.

Don't forget the context, a trial.
Daz lawyer will say, "hey, look, it's obvious that here he used the Nikkohl shoes."
Your lawyer will answer, "absolutely not ! It's shoes that my client sculpted and textured by himself. It's possible that those shoes was in his mind when he did it, and that therefore the result look similar, but it's just a coincidence."

And like in most judicial systems you don't have to prove that you are innocent (with few exception like defamation), it will depend who the judge decide to believe. If you live in a rational country, priority goes to the innocence, and like Daz lawyer cannot effectively prove that you illegally used protected assets, there's change that you end free of charge.
This being said, the longer is the list of assets that you sculpted and textured "like that protected one", the harder it will be for your lawyer to claim that it's just a coincidence.

But even then, it wouldn't worth it for Daz.
The cost to have a team that track all the games using renders, then for each of them track all the possible IP infringement in all the renders, would be way to high in regard of what they could expect from the few trials that they would have a chance to won.

 

[peterppp]

daz probably won't come after you. the artists might. if you make a few dollars on patreon no one cares. steam is where the money is at and if you are on steam and an artist sees their asset and wants to see that you paid for it, you must prove it or steam can ban your ass. if you go steam, be sure to have your shit in order

 

[coffeeaddicted]

daz probably won't come after you. the artists might. if you make a few dollars on patreon no one cares. steam is where the money is at and if you are on steam and an artist sees their asset and wants to see that you paid for it, you must prove it or steam can ban your ass. if you go steam, be sure to have your shit in order

I honestly wonder sometimes if artist that create assets make a lot of money.
In this case, deviantuna13 is on Renderosity. Not on DAZ store.
In any case, i am not sure if artist on these stores have a representation group that follows up on that. Alone, they probably don't do anything. It would be too costly for them.

 

[peterppp]

I honestly wonder sometimes if artist that create assets make a lot of money.
In this case, deviantuna13 is on Renderosity. Not on DAZ store.
In any case, i am not sure if artist on these stores have a representation group that follows up on that. Alone, they probably don't do anything. It would be too costly for them.

it absolutely happens that they do. they don't need a group and it doesn't cost anything to send an email asking for proof of purchase. if you can't show the proof, steam will take action

 

[coffeeaddicted]

it absolutely happens that they do. they don't need a group and it doesn't cost anything to send an email asking for proof of purchase. if you can't show the proof, steam will take action

So that means that, omg i use assumption, that most pay?
Anyway, yes, Steam is the behemoth.
Though i wonder if that ever happened. You see, i am curious.

I think when you starting out, you probably don't buy much. The reason being you don't know if you make money at all.
At least that is my thinking and i certainly wouldn't go Steam. Unless it's a hit and people begging to pay. Then i can invest in all these assets.
Anyway, i have no idea about developing and just a bloody nerd.

 

[peterppp]

So that means that, omg i use assumption, that most pay?
Anyway, yes, Steam is the behemoth.
Though i wonder if that ever happened. You see, i am curious.

I think when you starting out, you probably don't buy much. The reason being you don't know if you make money at all.
At least that is my thinking and i certainly wouldn't go Steam. Unless it's a hit and people begging to pay. Then i can invest in all these assets.
Anyway, i have no idea about developing and just a bloody nerd.

i have no statistic on it but if you are on steam and you are a serious game maker and expect to earn a fair amount of money, you are stupid if you don't pay for the assets. if you just put out shovelware with "burner" dev accounts, maybe you don't pay, i don't know.

when you're starting out, that's probably true for many yes. all those pirated daz assets on this site and elsewhere are not just collecting dust, they are used. but if you ever want to go steam, you should pay for your assets first. if you can't find an asset, maybe because it's no longer sold, then it's a problem

 

[coffeeaddicted]

i have no statistic on it but if you are on steam and you are a serious game maker and expect to earn a fair amount of money, you are stupid if you don't pay for the assets. if you just put out shovelware with "burner" dev accounts, maybe you don't pay, i don't know.

when you're starting out, that's probably true for many yes. all those pirated daz assets on this site and elsewhere are not just collecting dust, they are used. but if you ever want to go steam, you should pay for your assets first. if you can't find an asset, maybe because it's no longer sold, then it's a problem

Or just don't go to Steam. I think there are some that maybe just release them here or somewhere else underground.
But yes, this is probably a good point. When you go commercial, be honest.

 

[Faenon]

The intent of the game I'm in the process of developing is not to make money, it's to try and fill a hole in the market for the type of VN (written in renpy) I want to play. I will release the first few chapters free on Itch (with their pick your price option) most likely, if it becomes popular I may look to other platforms that would perhaps generate income such as Steam.

Someone above made a comment that scared the crap out of me that I need to set aside $2k USD to cover licensing for this. I simply don't have that kind of money and this will likely mean I will not be able to release my work

I looked at Daz because I would under the impression that it was a free way to develop art, for folks devoid of artistic talent like me, however the deeper you dive in the more riddled it is with microtransactions and licensing. I have spent a little money already on some assets from their store but it's clear that I will need to spend a hell of a lot to produce quality renders that will help me tell the story in my VN. I understand their need to make money, it's just frustrating to be stifled like this because I can't justify the expense to my family.