Least Favorite Game Trope?

[DarthSeduction]

My absolute least favorite trope is, the Player Antagonist. One or two of you have touched on this by talking about tropes that tend to surround it. But essentially, the Player Antagonist is what you call it when the goals of the Main Character run against the goals of the player. This is most often seen in female protagonist "corruption" games. But it's also seen often in femdom, sissyfication, and transformation games. Essentially, the main character's goal in life is to just live a normal life. Usually, if they're female, they have a boyfriend, but he's the only one who doesn't seem to want to fuck her, and that would be fine, if the game was about how the female MC decided to start cheating on their significant other because they weren't satisfying their sexual needs. But no. The MC is absolutely faithful to this beta who's about to get cucked for the rest of the game.

Next, she or he in the case of femdom, will go out into the world to find that every other person in it is a perverted pig. I can't even write this genuinely, because someone else just made my dislike of this even greater with a great point.

Maybe, just maybe you could keep their pervy thoughts a mystery. You could even convey it with stolen glances or hungry eyes.

Seriously Guy, I could kiss you. That is one of the best points I've ever seen. When every character is a possible rapist and guaranteed to attempt to force themselves on the MC it makes the MC and you, immediately against any sexual content in this game. Yet, the reason you're playing that game is to get the character fucked. See, this dynamic makes you angry at the MC for not wanting it, angry at the antagonists for wanting to take it, and angry at yourself for even playing this trash. There's something writers of the player antagonist games need to understand. CORRUPTION IS A CHOICE MADE BY THE CORRUPTED!

To put it in more relatable terms. These games shouldn't be games where the player just keeps getting raped, unless that's the player fantasy, in which case it should be the MC fantasy too. These games should be like Breaking Bad. Your main character has to be in dire straits either in their own sexual desires, or in some other way, like financially. They have to come to the conclusion that the only way forward is to change. Walter White freaks out the first time he has to hurt someone, but by the end he's a bastard that has chosen his fate. The point is, corruption needs to be a choice.

Games with a school setting, some are great some aren't but please a little more variety, not all MC's have to be 18 and magically have a sister who is younger yet also 18 and still at the same school...

This isn't really a trope so much as a reality of the legal situation surrounding these games. I see no problem with an 18 year old and a 16 year old being in a sexual relationship (and usually neither does the law), but because the laws and or the platform requires that all characters in the product be 18 or older, they are. School settings are fun because they engage the fantasies of our youth, things that we know we both can't and shouldn't have now. There's no problem with this in reality, but because the law hasn't caught up with common sense in it's adherence to scare mongering, we have this common issue that people then come and complain about. If the character is in school, it's safe to assume they might not really be 18.

Underage looking Mc's: this is probably down to taste but i'm just not interested in seeing a supposedly 18 year old who is about four foot tall with a foot long cock, ICSTOR used to be guilty of this but thankfully he's getting past it.

- Shota/loli: Anything that is not visibly an adult, should not be in porn game!

These aren't tropes, they're fetishes, especially the first one, which is pretty laughable, there are popular porn stars with really short really tiny builds. Ataios, you don't like shota/loli, that's fine you don't have to. But I'm of the belief that your rights stop only at the point where your actions hurt others. In plain terms, shota/loli hurts no one, which means that regulating it out is simply stupid. Furthermore, there are studies that show that the existence of shota and loli as an outlet for people who actually do want to fuck kids, decreases the likelihood that they will, because even if they want to, it's hard to get over the fact that they'd hurt people.

-When you have a character that wants to fuck the MC immediately so the dev keeps having to come up with contrived excuses why you can't (most often being someone interrupting right before you fuck)

You're bringing up an interesting point and something that pisses me off in a lot of h games. The pacing.

By pacing I mean, devs often seem to feel like their games needs to have things for arbitrary reasons. Like "I'm making a game technically so it should be challenging", lining up with ideas like the "stairway to heaven' or Getting clockblocked a lot early game. Or, for a way obvious exemple, games made in RPG Maker which have equipments and stats for the only reason that they are made in RPG Maker. It doesn't make sense in the plot, it doesn't add anything to the experience, it's just there because "RPG Maker games should have fights". And then there's the fact many of those games are way too difficult and tedious, making things even worse.

Some games take that approach with just making you wait. That's the only way they could think of to have "challenge". Have you walk around a lot, do litteral fetch quests and in more VN types things just clicking through walls of text. That's not challenge. That's just fucking waiting.

To these two, I think there's something you're missing. Now, don't get me wrong, I think that pacing is a huge problem. There are devs who don't know what the fuck they're doing. However, the methods by which they pace aren't inherently wrong. What they are trying to do here isn't to make the game harder, but to add dramatic tension. Again, many fail, Mr. Dots is a good example, and ICSTOR did a little poorly with the mom in Milfy City, IMO, if she'd have been a little less forward maybe he could have gotten away with this edging he's trying, but as forward as she's written, I'd have really written her as literally fucking him the first time she got his dick out in front of her.

That said, there should be instances where you're getting cock blocked, and the fact that you are irritated by that is appropriate. This is similar the the common criticism of American cinema that it always has to have a happy ending with everything tied up in a tidy bow. No, it doesn't. Sometimes things are messy, sometimes things don't go the player's way. It's up to the player to be determined enough to get past that and keep going. There's nothing wrong with drama and emotion, there's nothing wrong with sometimes getting angry at getting cock blocked by someone coming home, but there is a problem in yourself if you think that shouldn't be a part of a well written narrative.

 

[TomberryDude]

@DarthSeduction "there should be instances where you're getting cock blocked". Actually, no. There shouldn't, not necessarilly.

Things going wrong for the protagonist and being unpredictable and drama are all things you find in good stories, true. But they don't, in and of themselves, make a story good. That was my point and I was mostly talking about game mechanics like RPG Fights in RPG Makers when in that particular game it doesn't make any sense to have them and they're terrible to boot.

As far as story telling goes. You could have the best writing style in History, if your story is shit, it doesn't matter. It will still be awful.

 

[GuyFreely]

Right, some of these suggestions are veering a bit off topic. The topic is tropes, not fetishes or game mechanics. I'm not saying it's not worth discussing these things, we do it fairly regularly. I believe the OP wanted to discuss specifically tropes.

[GF definitions]
Trope: A storytelling device that is repeated in many artistic works.
This often refers to plot devices like the main character has mind control powers to make women fuck him. Some people also use the term to discuss character stereotypes like the naive younger sister. It's a pattern that you recognize when you see it because you've seen it before. Being a trope doesn't automatically make something bad, but there are bad ones and good ones (in people's opinions).

Mechanics: How a game works on a fundamental level outside of the story.
The includes things like grinding stats and having to do activities at certain times of the day. These can sort of bleed into the tropes sometimes, but generally they are their own problem.

Fetishes: Sexual kinks or preferences.
Things like bondage, futa, shota, incest, etc. Again, a trope might commonly occur attached to a certain fetish, but the fetish in itself is not a trope.

As to the topic at hand, I agree with what Darth is saying about the player antagonist problem. It's a more generic form of what I was saying about corruption games. You, as the player, are making choices for the character, but the character doesn't like your choices. This is counter intuitive, because as far as the story goes, the MC is the one making the choice. So it's like the MC doesn't agree with themself if that makes any sense. To be clear, this largely comes down to writing. A character can begrudgingly make a choice. We all do things we don't really want to do. It just gets old when the character never agrees with the choices made. If you want to give the player agency (the ability to make choices) then make the character live with those choices, not fight them.

 

[HalGLC]

To these two, I think there's something you're missing. Now, don't get me wrong, I think that pacing is a huge problem. There are devs who don't know what the fuck they're doing. However, the methods by which they pace aren't inherently wrong. What they are trying to do here isn't to make the game harder, but to add dramatic tension. Again, many fail, Mr. Dots is a good example, and ICSTOR did a little poorly with the mom in Milfy City, IMO, if she'd have been a little less forward maybe he could have gotten away with this edging he's trying, but as forward as she's written, I'd have really written her as literally fucking him the first time she got his dick out in front of her.

That said, there should be instances where you're getting cock blocked, and the fact that you are irritated by that is appropriate. This is similar the the common criticism of American cinema that it always has to have a happy ending with everything tied up in a tidy bow. No, it doesn't. Sometimes things are messy, sometimes things don't go the player's way. It's up to the player to be determined enough to get past that and keep going. There's nothing wrong with drama and emotion, there's nothing wrong with sometimes getting angry at getting cock blocked by someone coming home, but there is a problem in yourself if you think that shouldn't be a part of a well written narrative.

It's not really a thing about pacing. There are games where you do have slow pacing and it works (My new roommate felt slow but earned if that makes sense) but games like Milfy City or such where as far as the actual writing is, where the character's almost (or in some cases literally) exclaiming that they want to fuck, often there's no reason not to.

One of my favorite games is ICSTOR's Incest Story 2, because you spend all of IC1 building up and finally getting to fuck each of your family members, you did your time, you did the grind, etc, so by the time IC2 came out you skip all that, you can just fuck them immediately. Were icstor to have you start from scratch, start at the bottom of 'the stairway' I think it'd take away from the game.


That being said there's a big point that a lot of people here are missing that I want to get into:






A lot of us (me included) are looking at these games as they are now: Bit by bit updates every 2 weeks-2 months or however long they are. The truth is if we actually look at games as completed games, then it probably wouldn't be a big deal. Yeah, it's annoying that I've been cockblocked trying to fuck so-and-so but most of my frustration is that means I have to probably wait a few months until I can actually fuck them. Theoretically if we all waited until these games were finished then that annoyance would probably dissipate because instead of waiting next month you could be waiting until the next scene.

That being said it only kind of fixes the complaint about pacing, and that's only if you're annoyed for waiting, not annoyed because the idea of gradual escalation is frustrating as a concept

 

[DarthSeduction]

@DarthSeduction "there should be instances where you're getting cock blocked". Actually, no. There shouldn't, not necessarilly.

...

As far as story telling goes. You could have the best writing style in History, if your story is shit, it doesn't matter. It will still be awful.

Growth comes from conflict. In the case of a story centered around the MC getting laid, the conflict is things that stop the MC from getting laid. If you're about to fuck the really hot girl next door, but then her mom comes in and finds the two of you, kicks you out and keeps you away, the story then becomes about overcoming this obstacle, the mother, who is keeping you and the girl apart. Honestly, one of my favorite story lines in any game was this exact thing in Summertime Saga when you get cock blocked by the mom, and then have to corrupt the mom with the help of the nun in order to finally get with Mia. When you finally get with Mia it feels amazing, because you earned that shit. That's why you cock block the player. It's not about making it harder, its about introducing dramatic tension. It's about increasing conflict and creating an emotional investment in the outcome. If you just wanna watch people fuck, go find some porn, they aren't gonna build up the drama for you, they'll just get straight to it. But games are narratives, and a narrative will never do well if it just gives the main character whatever they want.

I said in my original comment, there are plenty of games which have horrible pacing problems. Dating My Daughter is a good example of this. He drags the stairway to heaven out to an insane degree and still doesn't culminate the end of ch 1 with sex. Big Brother is full of stupid cock blocking from characters who wouldn't. Olivia and the Aunt specifically. But there are also, so many instances of people who should just move faster in general in that game. So again. I'm not saying that there aren't many games that have pacing problems. I'm saying that a cock block scene in and of itself isn't a pacing issue. It's intent is building tension, and when used properly, like in Babysitter, where you almost fuck your niece but she chickens out at the last moment, causing it to not happen for 2 more releases (I think) it makes it that much more special, because you got past that and the drama that followed, and finally got to fuck her, and by howdy did you fuck her.

It's not really a thing about pacing. There are games where you do have slow pacing and it works (My new roommate felt slow but earned if that makes sense) but games like Milfy City or such where as far as the actual writing is, where the character's almost (or in some cases literally) exclaiming that they want to fuck, often there's no reason not to.

Pacing doesn't have to be "Fast vs. Slow" some games are meant to be a slow burn. For instance, I really like Babysitter, but it took its time to get to the sex finally. Pacing is about having a system that rewards your players for their perseverance, its about having a story that is worth following and consistent rewards for following it. In Babysitter it accomplished this with the spyware mechanic that kept things sexy leading up to the actual sex scenes later. This works because Babysitter is a game that, in the end, is about the relationships.

However, for a game like Depraved Awakening, or my new title Seraphim Academy, these are games that are about their underlying mystery, who is this shadowy organization that killed your client in Depraved Awakening, and who is responsible for these people going missing in Seraphim Academy. As a result, each game features much more sexual content and less build up, because that's not where you're building the dramatic tension.

A well paced thriller will be full of little tidbits of new information and actions that lead to a satisfying conclusion. A well paced romantic drama will be a slow burn that lets you get to know each character intimately before earning its climax.

But, just because your game is a slow burn and a romantic drama, doesn't mean you paced it well. Case in point, as I mentioned above, DmD. That game is a mess when it comes to pacing. You aren't even taking the stairway to heaven. You're taking a much more tedious staircase next to it, with 5x the steps. that sometimes go up and sometimes take you back down. It isn't well paced. Meanwhile, Parental Love is quite well paced. Each of the characters are advancing in each release, and in a way that makes sense with what happened before. It's actually refreshing each time I play it.

A lot of us (me included) are looking at these games as they are now: Bit by bit updates every 2 weeks-2 months or however long they are. The truth is if we actually look at games as completed games, then it probably wouldn't be a big deal. Yeah, it's annoying that I've been cockblocked trying to fuck so-and-so but most of my frustration is that means I have to probably wait a few months until I can actually fuck them. Theoretically if we all waited until these games were finished then that annoyance would probably dissipate because instead of waiting next month you could be waiting until the next scene.

This is true, which is why I'm striving for a more episodic/chapter feel to my story. I want to give each release a small 3 act structure, while the overarching game might have more of a 5 act structure. In this way you get what you want out of each release, but the story still has somewhere to build to something to learn. However, not all games are built with the release model in mind. Most go with the day to day structure. Day 1, day 2, etc. As a result, they might have better pacing than people give them credit for, however that's not always the case. I didn't play DmD till Ch1 was already complete, so I can attest to the fact that it was always poorly paced. It is just a matter of how you go about it.

not annoyed because the idea of gradual escalation is frustrating as a concept

As I said above, if you want instant gratification, narrative games aren't the place to look. The stairway to heaven is often abused, don't get me wrong, I'm all about advocating for better more realistic approaches to it and more casual sex, but I'm also not against making the player wait in order to build up tension and more satisfying conclusion come time. It's all about making that conclusion worth the wait though. If you feel like you busted your ass off to get there and it's 10 frames of poorly posed sex (looking at your big brother) then you're gonna be disappointed. You've got to do it right, but that doesn't mean that you get rid of it entirely.

 

[TomberryDude]

Growth comes from conflict. In the case of a story centered around the MC getting laid, the conflict is things that stop the MC from getting laid. If you're about to fuck the really hot girl next door, but then her mom comes in and finds the two of you, kicks you out and keeps you away, the story then becomes about overcoming this obstacle, the mother, who is keeping you and the girl apart. Honestly, one of my favorite story lines in any game was this exact thing in Summertime Saga when you get cock blocked by the mom, and then have to corrupt the mom with the help of the nun in order to finally get with Mia. When you finally get with Mia it feels amazing, because you earned that shit. That's why you cock block the player. It's not about making it harder, its about introducing dramatic tension. It's about increasing conflict and creating an emotional investment in the outcome. If you just wanna watch people fuck, go find some porn, they aren't gonna build up the drama for you, they'll just get straight to it. But games are narratives, and a narrative will never do well if it just gives the main character whatever they want.

I said in my original comment, there are plenty of games which have horrible pacing problems. Dating My Daughter is a good example of this. He drags the stairway to heaven out to an insane degree and still doesn't culminate the end of ch 1 with sex. Big Brother is full of stupid cock blocking from characters who wouldn't. Olivia and the Aunt specifically. But there are also, so many instances of people who should just move faster in general in that game. So again. I'm not saying that there aren't many games that have pacing problems. I'm saying that a cock block scene in and of itself isn't a pacing issue. It's intent is building tension, and when used properly, like in Babysitter, where you almost fuck your niece but she chickens out at the last moment, causing it to not happen for 2 more releases (I think) it makes it that much more special, because you got past that and the drama that followed, and finally got to fuck her, and by howdy did you fuck her.

That's cool and all but it has nothing to do with my post you quoted. I don't even disagree with what you said there. I also think SS is pretty good. All I said is a lot of games have shit stories and attempts at adding "conflict" and stuff doesn't matter in those cases. If anything, it makes them worse because they just because tedious as well as being crap.

It seems I wasn't clear before. I'm not saying games shouldn't have stories or give you shit for no efforts. I would rather a game have no story than one that waste my time though. I can do with a slow story, even a bad one, as long as it's entertaining to some degree.

 

[WhitePhantom]

These aren't tropes, they're fetishes, especially the first one, which is pretty laughable, there are popular porn stars with really short really tiny builds. Ataios, you don't like shota/loli, that's fine you don't have to. But I'm of the belief that your rights stop only at the point where your actions hurt others. In plain terms, shota/loli hurts no one, which means that regulating it out is simply stupid. Furthermore, there are studies that show that the existence of shota and loli as an outlet for people who actually do want to fuck kids, decreases the likelihood that they will, because even if they want to, it's hard to get over the fact that they'd hurt people.

You're completely and utterly wrong on this I'm afraid. If promo images have shota/loli content, viewing the game on this site alone in a lot of countries (including the UK), let alone downloading the game (even worse if it's untagged and you don't even know it's there) could have you arrested, potentially jailed and put on a sex offenders list for the rest of your life. Having that content is far, far more harmful than banning it.

 

[uradamus]

You're completely and utterly wrong on this I'm afraid. If promo images have shota/loli content, viewing the game on this site alone in a lot of countries (including the UK), let alone downloading the game (even worse if it's untagged and you don't even know it's there) could have you arrested, potentially jailed and put on a sex offenders list for the rest of your life. Having that content is far, far more harmful than banning it.

Not saying your wrong in a technical sense, but can you name an instance where anyone was every arrested just for accidentally seeing a screenshot/promo image of a game with fictional loli/shota content? I tend to doubt you'll be able to because police agencies know that something of that nature would never stick in an actual court on its own. In almost every case that anyone has ever been brought up on charges related to such content, it was a minor addition to a much longer laundry list of charges that usually involves actual CP.

 

[WhitePhantom]

Not saying your wrong in a technical sense, but can you name an instance where anyone was every arrested just for accidentally seeing a screenshot/promo image of a game with fictional loli/shota content? I tend to doubt you'll be able to because police agencies know that something of that nature would never stick in an actual court on its own. In almost every case than anyone has ever been brought up on charges related to such content, it was a minor addition to a much longer laundry list of charges that usually involves actual CP.

I can tell you with 100% certainty (spent several years studying law in this field) they could make that stick in a court case if they wanted to. It's as open and shut as showing a jury the image, is that a depiction of cp (photograph/3dcg/anime/pencil drawing doesn't matter), here's the log of them viewing it, would you agree they viewed this image, yes the logs there, is it a depiction of cp, yes it is, okay then it's a guilty verdict.

It's very unlikely they'd want to go that far for a single image, the DPP would need to agree it's in the public interest etc to get to that stage, the Police would need to have a reason to find it (although a UK ISP noticing a customer has viewed this content and informing them has happened before and stood up in court as a valid legal report, UK ISP's must log everything you do and store it for at least a year by law) but it's still a risk that shouldn't be there for people just looking for a site to download their favourite game.

 

[Rythan25]

Ugly looking/walking BBC's...

I'm looking at you D'Brickshaw from "My Sister, My Roommate" and Davide from "The Tyrant"... as the worst offenders, but they are in nearly every game... especially cuck/NTR games... Its getting old, not to mention incredibly racist as all hell...

We need more Marcus "Dreams of Desire" and Kevin "My New Life", in these games, you know an actual likable black dude that is cool, a bro, handsome, and you wouldnt mind him dating your sister, cousin, etc...

 

[DarthSeduction]

You're completely and utterly wrong on this I'm afraid. If promo images have shota/loli content, viewing the game on this site alone in a lot of countries (including the UK), let alone downloading the game (even worse if it's untagged and you don't even know it's there) could have you arrested, potentially jailed and put on a sex offenders list for the rest of your life. Having that content is far, far more harmful than banning it.

I can tell you with 100% certainty (spent several years studying law in this field) they could make that stick in a court case if they wanted to. It's as open and shut as showing a jury the image, is that a depiction of cp (photograph/3dcg/anime/pencil drawing doesn't matter), here's the log of them viewing it, would you agree they viewed this image, yes the logs there, is it a depiction of cp, yes it is, okay then it's a guilty verdict.

It's very unlikely they'd want to go that far for a single image, the DPP would need to agree it's in the public interest etc to get to that stage, the Police would need to have a reason to find it (although a UK ISP noticing a customer has viewed this content and informing them has happened before and stood up in court as a valid legal report, UK ISP's must log everything you do and store it for at least a year by law) but it's still a risk that shouldn't be there for people just looking for a site to download their favourite game.

I think you're completely misstating who is incorrect in this analogy of yours. As I stated, your rights should end the moment someone gets hurt. If your country is moving that line to include things that don't hurt people then they are the ones who are violating your rights. It is not the job of this site or any individual person outside of your country to lower their individual rights in order to protect you from your government. It is your job to lobby against censorship that would put you in jail and consider you a sex offender for viewing images that harm no one. What offense you've committed in not harming someone is something they have to prove. And as you admitted, it's very hard for them to deem that such a case even has merit. I'd also argue that the fact that your ISP is legally required to log your internet traffic is a violation of your right to privacy. In the US they just ruled that the government is not to be granted access to that data without a warrant, in accordance with our policies on illegal search and seizure. I would say again, the UK is violating your rights by doing this.

And on that note, the US is not much better. Luckily, in a few cases we were able to turn down our stricter laws on the subject by citing freedom of speech laws. However even still they have attempted to go at it for other laws surrounding porn, I can't remember the exact terminology, but it's something about deeming it obscene might still allow a misdemeanor crime, but not nearly as strict as the former law attempted to make it. Again, I don't believe that it's right, even here, to do this. It is a violation of your freedom of speech as a creator, and of your general freedom as a consumer. The fact that such laws as "Obscenity" laws even exist in the first place is as destructive as placing a law that prevents games like Grand Theft Auto from being made or sold, because it might cause a person to become violent. For the last time, governments need to understand, YOU ONLY BECOME VIOLENT FROM VIEWING VIOLENT CONTENT IF YOU WERE ALREADY BROKEN! People who already have no empathy aren't going to react the same way to any content as people with empathy. But you shouldn't limit the access of the overwhelming majority of empathetic people to some form of media simply because some minority of non empathetic people might take inspiration from it. Not having GTA or not having rape porn, or not having loli/shota will not stop a person who is exposed to these thoughts through other media, like the news, history, true crime documentaries, etc. Trying to do so is inherently fascistic in nature. It's thought crime.

 

[Gomly1980]

In plain terms, shota/loli hurts no one, which means that regulating it out is simply stupid.

It's illegal in the UK which is a problem when things aren't tagged.

 

[Lunas]

Humm where to start
Loli/young looking- nothing like feeling like the fbi will be knocking at my door for playing a game

Unrealistic proportions- I get big dongs and t&a are all the rage but what if I'm looking for NORMAL. A B AND C cups are fine so is a 6" it don't need be a foot long...

Guro/vore- if you are being stabbed or impaled on the doom dong or eaten by a snake that is not sexy. Snakes first would break bones before swallowing you. If you did manage to live long enough to be swallowed there is no air suffocate and die while you are crushed to death and covered in acid. Good news though you will likely be dead from crushing before lack of o2 kills you... In the end don't fuck what you eat don't eat what should be fucked. And ffs a bloody mess is not sexy.

 

[DarthSeduction]

It's illegal in the UK which is a problem when things aren't tagged.

So that's a problem for the developer who failed to properly tag their game. Not for the content itself. And again. the UK is the one violating your rights, not the person who develops a game that has fictional content.

 

[Gomly1980]

So that's a problem for the developer who failed to properly tag their game. Not for the content itself. And again. the UK is the one violating your rights, not the person who develops a game that has fictional content.

How is it violating my rights?

We have no freedom constitution, we have the law and our one and only right is to follow it.

 

[DarthSeduction]

How is it violating my rights?

We have no freedom constitution, we have the law and our one and only right is to follow it.

Sorry you don't believe in fundamental rights. I do. You seek to violate the fundamental rights of someone else as a response to the fact that your fundamental rights have been violated by your government. You should have a choice. That you don't is the problem. Always remember that the power of government is determined by the people. If a law violates your personal freedom then it is your job as a voter to vote for people who support your personal freedom. While it would never be a part of any platform, this is a matter of free speech, and Britain has always had a problem with censorship on that regard.

 

[WhitePhantom]

I think you're completely misstating who is incorrect in this analogy of yours. As I stated, your rights should end the moment someone gets hurt. If your country is moving that line to include things that don't hurt people then they are the ones who are violating your rights. It is not the job of this site or any individual person outside of your country to lower their individual rights in order to protect you from your government. It is your job to lobby against censorship that would put you in jail and consider you a sex offender for viewing images that harm no one. What offense you've committed in not harming someone is something they have to prove. And as you admitted, it's very hard for them to deem that such a case even has merit. I'd also argue that the fact that your ISP is legally required to log your internet traffic is a violation of your right to privacy. In the US they just ruled that the government is not to be granted access to that data without a warrant, in accordance with our policies on illegal search and seizure. I would say again, the UK is violating your rights by doing this.

Regardless of whether it's right or wrong of them to ban it, it's banned in some places. This site is not the USA, it's the internet, there are actual real consequences for some things you share here for other people. You cannot apply US "Freedoms" to the internet and presume everybody is entitled to them. Your argument is loli/shota should be freely shared and used in sex games because not allowing it would "censor" somebody (the worst case harm in banning it) vs potentially sending somebody to jail and having them on a sex offender register for life (the worst case harm in not banning it).

I'd say that's a very weak argument, especially as it contradicts your own "your rights should end the moment someone gets hurt", because if Person A makes a Loli Porn Game, shares it here, Person B clicks on it, and Person B is now arrested for viewing CGI ********** then Person A's actions have resulted in Person B's arrest. This would also have a butterfly effect, because if this site was teeming with loli/shota porn, the country prosecuting Person B's Police Force would go after anybody involved with the upkeep of the site (Web Developers etc) for the distribution of child pornography (this can be complicity by not removing it or active by promoting it) which would result in them being arrested if they lived there, or if they didn't, they would be picked up at the airport if ever they entered the country. Maybe Person B and Person C/D/E+ of the site are having their rights violated, but it's still Person A's content they've shared that have caused that harm, because if you remove it, everybody else is in no trouble.

Your argument would be applicable if you shared it on a US-only accessible forum.

(I also don't see, from a legal perspective, why you couldn't also issue an arrest warrant for Person A for the creation of child pornography and arrest them if they entered the country too. It's freely available on the internet and there is no contract saying what courts would be used etc, if I was prosecuting that case I'd push for an arrest warrant for Person A, even if they were from the USA/Japan where it's legal, as it is in the public interest to stop it getting online and being made, along with B/C/D/E+)

On top of that, the software that runs this forum is registered in the UK, so if shota/loli was allowed here and that company became aware, they would terminate any links with the site as well as force a complete rebuild of the site, you'd incur a financial cost to F95 and cause a whole ton of wasted time.

It's not even a controversial issue in the real world, if you put a poll out to the general public "should artists be allowed to use pre-puberty children in animations/renders/drawings for sexual purposes?" the percentage supporting that would not even get to double digits.

There are so many legal arguments against it being in games on this site, society's general opinion is against it, and the only argument for it is "censorship".

 

[DarthSeduction]

Regardless of whether it's right or wrong of them to ban it, it's banned in some places. This site is not the USA, it's the internet, there are actual real consequences for some things you share here for other people. You cannot apply US "Freedoms" to the internet and presume everybody is entitled to them. Your argument is loli/shota should be freely shared and used in sex games because not allowing it would "censor" somebody (the worst case harm in banning it) vs potentially sending somebody to jail and having them on a sex offender register for life (the worst case harm in not banning it).

I'd say that's a very weak argument, especially as it contradicts your own "your rights should end the moment someone gets hurt", because if Person A makes a Loli Porn Game, shares it here, Person B clicks on it, and Person B is now arrested for viewing CGI ********** then Person A's actions have resulted in Person B's arrest. This would also have a butterfly effect, because if this site was teeming with loli/shota porn, the country prosecuting Person B's Police Force would go after anybody involved with the upkeep of the site (Web Developers etc) for the distribution of child pornography (this can be complicity by not removing it or active by promoting it) which would result in them being arrested if they lived there, or if they didn't, they would be picked up at the airport if ever they entered the country. Maybe Person B and Person C/D/E+ of the site are having their rights violated, but it's still Person A's content they've shared that have caused that harm, because if you remove it, everybody else is in no trouble.

Your argument would be applicable if you shared it on a US-only accessible forum.

(I also don't see, from a legal perspective, why you couldn't also issue an arrest warrant for Person A for the creation of child pornography and arrest them if they entered the country too. It's freely available on the internet and there is no contract saying what courts would be used etc, if I was prosecuting that case I'd push for an arrest warrant for Person A, even if they were from the USA/Japan where it's legal, as it is in the public interest to stop it getting online and being made, along with B/C/D/E+)

On top of that, the software that runs this forum is registered in the UK, so if shota/loli was allowed here and that company became aware, they would terminate any links with the site as well as force a complete rebuild of the site, you'd incur a financial cost to F95 and cause a whole ton of wasted time.

It's not even a controversial issue in the real world, if you put a poll out to the general public "should artists be allowed to use pre-puberty children in animations/renders/drawings for sexual purposes?" the percentage supporting that would not even get to double digits.

There are so many legal arguments against it being in games on this site, society's general opinion is against it, and the only argument for it is "censorship".

First of all, Read rule 7.

If a game contains sexual contact with character(s) who show no sign of puberty (ie prepubescent) then the game should not be shared. 2D and 'unrealistic' depictions are generally looked upon more favorably. As this involves some discretion, if you are unsure ask a Staff Member

Loli/shota are 2D unrealistic depictions. Staff does handle these on a case by case basis, and has approved many games with such content. These content creators are not violating any rules on this site. You can argue UK law all you want, but understand, a non UK user making use of this site isn't beholden to UK law, and it's incredibly unlikely that the UK would expend the money to extradite a content creator, especially from a country like the US. And unless you've given a reason for your ISP to go through this site with a fine toothed comb, you're very unlikely to ever get taken down for this. If you're so worried about it, use a VPN.

Secondly. NO. By your argument, because a Saudi national can access this website and see pornography this website shouldn't exist, because porn is illegal in Saudi Arabia.Again you're blaming the powerless game developer for the violation of your rights BY YOUR GOVERNMENT. The game developer isn't arresting you, the game developer isn't physically harming you, the game developer's content doesn't physically harm anyone. It is YOUR GOVERNMENT who is harming you, because you accessed fictional depiction of what may or may not be an underage person. You didn't harm anyone. You wouldn't harm anyone. You were unaware, according to most of your argument, that you were even accessing such content, but your government, in spite of the fact that you're not hurting anyone, has decided to imprison you and ostracize your from society. Stop licking boots, and start fighting injustice.

 

[thecardinal]

My least favorite game trope is the fighting over opinions in most threads. It's everywhere despite it being no one's fetish.

 

[HalGLC]

My least favorite game trope is the fighting over opinions in most threads. It's everywhere despite it being no one's fetish.

Well if we're going that route then we might as well talk about NTR

By which I mean the neverending debate about NTR, having a very clear pattern

Step 1: Does the game have NTR? If yes, skip step 2

Step 2: Someone (the dev sometimes, sometimes just a fan) pitches introducing NTR into the game

Step 3a: Hail of people staunchly opposed to NTR complain, and often times demand it removed or skipped despite what the fans and/or dev want

Step 3b: Hail of people who like NTR complain, and often times demand it shoehorned into a game despite what the fans and/or dev want

Step 4: The entire debate eventually reaches the point where the definition of NTR gets argued (Your dad banging your mom, a girl you like but never talked to banging her boyfriend, a female character the MC has no interest in has sex that the player was like "But I wanted to!" all eventually get brought up

Step 5 (Optional): Personal attacks

and finally Step 6: A mod steps in and says any continued NTR discussion will result in discipline