I'm surprised there isn't a larger amount colaboration when it comes to adult game development

[Diconica]

In part I understand why. But in truth it probably isn't the best solution.
I'll discuss a couple projects that could be done as examples:

Renpy, is fairly nice tool for creating visual novels. But it isn't perfect. For a lot of games it really is just to much.
Then there is the learning curve for people coming into it.

Imagine a project that has already built a more robust system to use with Renpy that eliminates the majority of programming so it leaves the developer working on writing and art.
In truth that could be done for games that are very basic to much more complex games like Lab Rats 2 and even further.

But has anyone done it or any group? Not that I seen.

Art takes a lot of time to do also. But has there been any collaboration on making a tool or library art could be used in the game?
I'm not talking about something on the order of making a 3D render much faster.
But if you look into games like female agent they have a 2D character that is made of parts. It is possible to do that for quite a few poses fairly easily.
You also have "Lab Rats 2" which does similar. The developer used a 3D model rendered images to create 2D images that are pasted together to create each position he has.
The general quality in most renders of that sort could easily be done with opengl or directx and not use ray tracing. That would mean an image could be created rather fast and saved.
If you had a uniform 3D model for women it would be possible to alter the size of various parts to build basically any female character you could think of. It would then be mostly an issue of creating the poses for one version of the model and the system could then be told to loop through all the poses then swap to an alternate form.
It would save vastly more space if you could put the 3D model in the game directly.

The 2D drawn version could be done using a collaborative system where the general form is provided and people voluntarily complete them using the method and standards provided.
If color is left out and the images are separated into base light and shadow it would mean you could fill in whatever skin color or texture you desire. Hair, fur would be done as separate layers and thus wouldn't interfere with clothing.

I think the biggest issues is people want to protect IP or at least want a payout.
The problem is they don't recognize the greater payout this has if these libraries or tools are created then they could make use of them also to make money with their own stories.

 

[anne O'nymous]

But has anyone done it or any group? Not that I seen.

Time to buy glasses ?
There's templates, modules, and full this/that directly usable in your own game. Here, on Ren'Py official forum, and all around the web.
And, of course, there's the thousands games... While technically their code isn't necessarily copyleft or open source, we are pirates, right ? And anyway, when it come to Ren'Py, the codes that are the more unique are also the less practicable and the more over complicated. This mean that you can use the date system you found in a game, there's no way to prove that you didn't came to it by yourself, or by tweaking one of the many examples available here.

I think the biggest issues is people want to protect IP or at least want a payout.

Do you even know what you are talking about ?
Your idea would do nothing else than sending the adult gaming scene 20 years backward, to the glorious time of cheap puppeted flash games. It don't suffice to scale and color to have something both unique enough and good looking. If there's one thing to remember from those 00's adult games, it's clearly that.
And why one would want such library when Illusion studios exist ? If you're lame at both 3D and drawing, they are a way better solution than your pieces of body library. Even if you're also lame at posing, the result will always looks better than an assembly of random poorly tweaked, then as poorly posed, body pieces ; even SIMS 4 would do better.

The problem is they don't recognize the greater payout this has if these libraries or tools are created then they could make use of them also to make money with their own stories.

Or is it that you don't understand that it's something totally useless ?

Everything one need to make an average CYOA Ren'Py game with a bit of sandbox, with in-game periods and characters basic stats, is already available here. And there's enough variation of them for you to find a version directly usable whatever your code. At most what is missing is a thread indexing all this, but well, the search feature exist.
And, as already said, everything you need to put CGs on top of this is already available in Illusion studios, in a fast and easy way.

 

[Diconica]

Time to buy glasses ?
There's templates, modules, and full this/that directly usable in your own game. Here, on Ren'Py official forum, and all around the web.
And, of course, there's the thousands games... While technically their code isn't necessarily copyleft or open source, we are pirates, right ? And anyway, when it come to Ren'Py, the codes that are the more unique are also the less practicable and the more over complicated. This mean that you can use the date system you found in a game, there's no way to prove that you didn't came to it by yourself, or by tweaking one of the many examples available here.

Do you even know what you are talking about ?
Your idea would do nothing else than sending the adult gaming scene 20 years backward, to the glorious time of cheap puppeted flash games. It don't suffice to scale and color to have something both unique enough and good looking. If there's one thing to remember from those 00's adult games, it's clearly that.
And why one would want such library when Illusion studios exist ? If you're lame at both 3D and drawing, they are a way better solution than your pieces of body library. Even if you're also lame at posing, the result will always looks better than an assembly of random poorly tweaked, then as poorly posed, body pieces ; even SIMS 4 would do better.

Or is it that you don't understand that it's something totally useless ?

Everything one need to make an average CYOA Ren'Py game with a bit of sandbox, with in-game periods and characters basic stats, is already available here. And there's enough variation of them for you to find a version directly usable whatever your code. At most what is missing is a thread indexing all this, but well, the search feature exist.
And, as already said, everything you need to put CGs on top of this is already available in Illusion studios, in a fast and easy way.

You do realize you made a bunch of stupid assumptions.

Illusions graphics are exactly the quality and type I am talking about can be done with a dedicated system using opengl or directx or hell even vulcan.
But no instead you make this idiotic assumption I am talking something less than that. To be clear that quality of character system has been possible for more than a decade in real time without ray tracing.

There was a secondary method suggested for those wanting 2D drawn style characters. That was because some people prefer 2D art styles. I realize that might be news to you that some people actually like 2D art even prefer it over rendered.
You have ZERO information as to what level of quality I was considering for it. In truth I was thinking of actually multiple sets with different levels so an person could pick an art style that they think would go with their game best.

I've seen the plugins if for renpy.
1. They don't meat all the needs of what I am talking about
2. Some of them have seriously horrid code.
3. Some of them aren't any easier to use than renpy.

 

[JakaiD]

Sounds like you are looking for assets, have a look at

You must be registered to see the links

You can also find things related to Ren'Py via

You must be registered to see the links

and many other assets like sounds, etc. A lot fo free stuff too.

I am not in the Ren'Py scene so I do not know all the available sources but I assume there would be other places to find scripts.

If Ren'Py is too much for you to handle just google for VN Makers. There are planty and some are no-code.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You do realize you made a bunch of stupid assumptions.

If you say so, let's see...

Illusions graphics are exactly the quality and type I am talking about can be done with a dedicated system using opengl or directx or hell even vulcan.
But no instead you make this idiotic assumption I am talking something less than that. To be clear that quality of character system has been possible for more than a decade in real time without ray tracing.

You are talking about something less than what ?

Honey Select was released in 2016, therefore nearly a decade ago. It rely on Unity 5, just need 2GB RAM, 512MB VRAM, and don't require a special GPU. As for its studio, it also rely on Unity 5, don't need more RAM or VRAM, can use any GPU, and it will generate renders in the time it need for the screenshot to be saved on your hard drive.

What less do you want exactly ? A software that will select the character, clothes and poses for you ? Well, as far as I remember, Illusion studios include randomization, so even this is already possible to some extend, even on a shitty 10 years old computer and in less than 1 minute.

There was a secondary method suggested for those wanting 2D drawn style characters. That was because some people prefer 2D art styles. I realize that might be news to you that some people actually like 2D art even prefer it over rendered.

How can it be something new for me, when I explicitly addressed the 00's puppeted flash games, that were doing exactly what you are asking for ?

You have ZERO information as to what level of quality I was considering for it.

Effectively, but I played the said 00's puppeted flash games, and know what level of quality can be reached that way. And SIMS 4 screenshot aren't really worse than it.

In truth I was thinking of actually multiple sets with different levels so an person could pick an art style that they think would go with their game best.

No, if you were effectively thinking, you would have talked about a library of vector body pieces. That way at least scaling and coloring would give not too bad results.

I've seen the plugins if for renpy.

You should decide. Either there's none, like you said while opening the thread, or you've seen them all. But it can't be both, you know.

 

[Domiek]

Renpy, is fairly nice tool for creating visual novels. But it isn't perfect. For a lot of games it really is just to much.
Then there is the learning curve for people coming into it.

Imagine a project that has already built a more robust system to use with Renpy that eliminates the majority of programming so it leaves the developer working on writing and art.
In truth that could be done for games that are very basic to much more complex games like Lab Rats 2 and even further.

I'm not sure what you mean about Renpy being too much. It was designed for visual novels and it's probably one of the easiest ways to do a VN. There is barely anything that even qualifies as coding, as long as we're sticking to a traditional VN. The additional coding requirements usually come from people transforming renpy into something more than just a VN. Even so, a lot of these code snippets are already shared by users in various forums.

Art takes a lot of time to do also. But has there been any collaboration on making a tool or library art could be used in the game?
I'm not talking about something on the order of making a 3D render much faster.

I can only speak on behalf of the 3D side of things. What you describe is exactly what Daz3D is. It takes all of the complicated steps behind sculpting, texturing and rigging a 3D character and makes it accessible to just about anyone. There are libraries of assets including clothes, poses and expressions. Even if using the exact same models, each dev textures and lights things differently. If there was to be any sort of ready-made asset library that bypasses the need to render, it would be vastly inconsistent. I can't say anything about 2D side of things other than that I imagine a collaboration library would be even more inconsistent than 3D.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea in theory. I just don't see how it would work outside of a very specific project.

 

[Diconica]

If you say so, let's see...

You are talking about something less than what ?

Honey Select was released in 2016, therefore nearly a decade ago. It rely on Unity 5, just need 2GB RAM, 512MB VRAM, and don't require a special GPU. As for its studio, it also rely on Unity 5, don't need more RAM or VRAM, can use any GPU, and it will generate renders in the time it need for the screenshot to be saved on your hard drive.

What less do you want exactly ? A software that will select the character, clothes and poses for you ? Well, as far as I remember, Illusion studios include randomization, so even this is already possible to some extend, even on a shitty 10 years old computer and in less than 1 minute.

Last I checked it isn't public domain.

How can it be something new for me, when I explicitly addressed the 00's puppeted flash games, that were doing exactly what you are asking for ?

Effectively, but I played the said 00's puppeted flash games, and know what level of quality can be reached that way. And SIMS 4 screenshot aren't really worse than it.

No, you don't all you know is what was achieved by them. You have ZERO fucking clue what others may do beyond that.
Your entire purpose of mentioning them was to down play and make as if whatever come out of it would be of some low quality.

No, if you were effectively thinking, you would have talked about a library of vector body pieces. That way at least scaling and coloring would give not too bad results.

Where the fuck did I say SVG wouldn't be one of the multiple types? Please show me.
In fact I believe I've multiple times preached on this site how SVGs are the way a lot of people should have gone.
https://f95zone.to/threads/millions-of-characters.78301/
https://f95zone.to/threads/is-my-art-skill-is-fair-enough-to-use-in-game.81766/post-5738169

You should decide. Either there's none, like you said while opening the thread, or you've seen them all. But it can't be both, you know.

Where the hell did I say there were no tools. Please. show me. That or go take a course and learn to read!

 

[Diconica]

I'm not sure what you mean about Renpy being too much. It was designed for visual novels and it's probably one of the easiest ways to do a VN. There is barely anything that even qualifies as coding, as long as we're sticking to a traditional VN. The additional coding requirements usually come from people transforming renpy into something more than just a VN. Even so, a lot of these code snippets are already shared by users in various forums.

There are actually easier systems than renpy for the most basic novels even with path selection.

I can only speak on behalf of the 3D side of things. What you describe is exactly what Daz3D is. It takes all of the complicated steps behind sculpting, texturing and rigging a 3D character and makes it accessible to just about anyone. There are libraries of assets including clothes, poses and expressions. Even if using the exact same models, each dev textures and lights things differently. If there was to be any sort of ready-made asset library that bypasses the need to render, it would be vastly inconsistent. I can't say anything about 2D side of things other than that I imagine a collaboration library would be even more inconsistent than 3D.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea in theory. I just don't see how it would work outside of a very specific project.

My primary job these days is software development renderer and game engines are a big part of that.
"Even if using the exact same models, each dev textures and lights things differently."
This isn't always because a developer wants to do it differently. It is more to do with there isn't a standard way a scene is laid out or setup each and every single time. I've heard enough of the complaints come in about it taking to much time to setup each scene. Some developers I would say are more akin to artist in that they care about the exact appearance and spend a lot of time trying to get the right lighting to set a mood. Others just want to get the scene pushed out and have it look recognizable and moderately decent. They are the majority. They also learn all differently in different ways to handle the lighting and so on.

Texturing
You might not know this but post rendered images can be textured. In fact a lot more can be done.
Primarily I was talking about creating doll images to work in games. However, there is a lot more capability available.
Lets say you select 100 different types of sex scenes and they can be standardized. By that all the characters potential parts can be drawn for the various scenes.

I can't tell you if Daz3D can do this or not.
Lets say you have a scene were a woman is on a bed on here knees toward the end of the bed. You can render the background to one texture and the character to another. However, it can go a lot further. The shadow she cases on the bed goes to a separate texture. and all the parts on here are separately rendered to different textures. The only thing that remains the same is the skeletal position and a differently proportion model gets dropped into the same scene. If you start off with the larger model and work down to the smaller model a system can store only the paths that struck the model and just rerun those.
Also all the faces in the background that rays didn't hit can be removed on future passes for this set of renders.

Doing that tough would mean needing crap loads of different renders for each skin type / texture and so on. You leave out the texture and render to a neutral and separate light and shadow to separate textures.
This is where the comment I made above comes in you can texture post rendering. Meaning you could apply any skin type, color shading, fur texture after the fact. Doing so simply means using a rasterization and interpolation methods.

"If there was to be any sort of ready-made asset library that bypasses the need to render, it would be vastly inconsistent."
If you understand fully what I said above then you would grasp why this isn't true.

 

[anne O'nymous]

No, you don't all you know is what was achieved by them. You have ZERO fucking clue what others may do beyond that.
Your entire purpose of mentioning them was to down play and make as if whatever come out of it would be of some low quality.

10 years of use all around the world, but genius Diconica wasn't there yet, so obviously no one did it correctly.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

What it sounds like you are suggesting is

1. Arm chair designing
2. tooling hell

I've personally worked on a lot of similar ideas and projects, from modular game engine designs, to trying to develop my own interpretive language and tools for non technical devs to help them work on projects. In fact in the past I planned to sell myself to small teams, with the idea that I would already have a lot of tools developed so I could make games faster... but then no one wants to make the games I'm interested in so I stopped working with others.

Anyways, even though it sounds like you are a software engineer (thus probably more qualified than me to code), I do scoff a bit at some of your suggestions (if not somewhat defensive cuz I feel like I'm being targeted), but its cool to hear ideas and you got ideas. The reason I say I 'scoff' is because it sounds like you talk the talk (arm char designing), but I walk the walk, I've worked on a lot of what you have proposed, so I have a lot to say, but maybe your virgin perspective could see newer solutions.

Spoiler: Robust System 1

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Spoiler: Secrets of the Lost Groups

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Spoiler: Robust System 2

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Spoiler: The word of the day is Topology!

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Spoiler: You dun fuk'd up, this is a can of worms!

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Well, I wanted to touch on more ideas, but when I hit SVG and your ideas you can see I went a bit to town so I'll stop here.