I think some designers are missing the point of making an erotic game

[SrRK]

Here's a hint, it's the word before game in the title. That's right, erotic. Let's not be coy and call it an adult game, we came here to see pixels doing naughty things. Why, then, do so many games pad or fill in with non-erotic content? I think some of the bad habits of the larger gaming community have carried over into these games.

Here's one of them: dollars per hour. (But most of the games are free! Yeah, bear with me.) There is a commonly held belief that games, the kind you can find at a game store, need to provide hours of entertainment to be "worth" the price. You'll find yourself collecting 10 bear asses or fighting 500 skeletons, whatever. If the core gameplay is fighting stuff, then let me fight all day. The problem becomes when an erotic game simulates boring repetitive tasks as gameplay. You go to work, you collect $20. When you collect $180 you can buy a spy camera to see nude ladies. Only 8 more work days to go! I didn't load up your game to do a boring job, I have one of those and it's equally unsexy.

Now I much prefer games where every time you go somewhere or interact with someone you get either story progression or erotic scenes. That being said, you don't have to make the grind boring. Spice it up, tease the player with some almost erotic content. If you are going to make me "earn" my erotic content, then give me something to enjoy before I earn it. If I have to go to the gym to get buff, put some babes working out in sexy outfits. But, every time I go, there should be something new to see. I don't want to see the same two ladies doing the same two exercises ten times. You might say, but that's a lot of work, rendering ten different workout scenes with different ladies. Well then don't make me go to the gym ten fucking times, how about that?

Here's a good and bad example of how to handle this, in the same game no less! In Milfy City when you go to work for your sister, your job is take photos of your sister in sexy clothes. YES! This is the kind of activity I can get behind. Oh I have to take pictures of hot women in sexy clothes, I mean if I have to. How did I get the money to buy the camera? I had to ask my dad for money a couple times and find some lying around then cheat at a weird mini game on computer. Ah, you were so close ICSTOR. Then there is working for your mother, while it does have some scenes, the job proper is largely a hidden object mini game (sigh). Please stop putting time wasting activities in these games.

The other problem along these lines is what I would refer to as the "slow burn" game. Where the erotic part of the game is all at the back end. These typically involve corruption games, where a woman becomes more lewd over time. It can also involve games highly focused on developing a relationship slowly over time. Now I don't fault these games for working their way up to the content, but you really have to keep the pacing. If I'm trying to woo my favorite girl, but it's at least 30 solid minutes before I get to any sexy times, give me a taste here and there. Most often this comes in the form of scenes where you peek on them or get some accidental nudity. These are tried and true methods, but there are plenty of ways to handle it. Just don't forget why the player even loaded your game to begin with. This is even easier if the player is a female protagonist, because people get naked on their own all the time.

Here's an example of what not to do in these situations. In a Wife and Mother, this is a corruption style slow burn game where the player is the titular Wife and Mother. Now I believe the designer is going for the sexually frustrated desperate housewife vibe. The thing that baffles me is that the early version of the game has what seems like 100s of rendered scenes but almost none of them are erotic. The main character goes through dozens of wardrobe changes and even some bathing scenes and you never even see a nipple. The most you see is her covering herself while nude. At one point she is changing clothes, with her bra off facing away from the camera! I literally said "fucking why?" at this point. The most erotic content I found in the game was to do with the maid and even that is very tame.

I just feel like with the pure amount of effort that has been put into the game's renders, they are missing the point of the game. I've seen entire games with less renders than WAM currently has but about 1000% more erotic content and been perfectly happy with them. Maybe when the game develops a little more we'll be treated to 100s of erotic rendered scenes, but I feel like the ratio is way off. I personally think they are wasting their time and the player's at this point, though that is bound to change (I hope). Don't get me wrong, I think the game is high on quality, just low on substance.

In short, please don't forget why people are playing your game. There are plenty of non-erotic dating sims and whatever other genre your game might fall into. The reason we play the games on here is because we want them to be erotic, plain and simple. You want to make the player earn it, fine. You want to develop a rich story, great. Just make it erotic. Even though I don't like the term, these games are for perverts. I say that with no malice or derision. I'm stating a fact. The players are horny and looking for an outlet, so give it to them, that's why we are here right?

[I realize I was writing from a perspective of a male looking for female pornographic content, but feel free to substitute your own personal tastes and kinks.]

Tbh I enjoy the story based games, where there is plenty of dialogue between characters, drama, etc. Now in terms of the RPG style games, I do kind of hate them and it feels like needless grinding- but let's just say that if I wanted to play a game where I just wildly bang girl after girl without any story or real gameplay, I'd go redownload Artificial Girl 3. That game is straight up just fucking cute 3D anime girls who wander around your house. Also, if I was really desperate enough for "erotic" content (to the point of not actually wanting to play a game), I'd go watch porn.

 

[GuyFreely]

Tbh I enjoy the story based games, where there is plenty of dialogue between characters, drama, etc. Like, DMD and Melody are two of the best games here, hands down. Now in terms of the RPG style games, I do kind of hate them and it feels like needless grinding- but let's just say that if I wanted to play a game where I just wildly bang girl after girl without any story or real gameplay, I'd go redownload Artificial Girl 3. That game is straight up just fucking cute 3D anime girls who wander around your house. Also, if I was really desperate enough for "erotic" content (to the point of not actually wanting to play a game), I'd go watch porn.

I didn't get all the way through DMD, but from what I played of it, it seems to not waste the player's time. Things are always progressing forward (though slower than some people care for) and there aren't little mini-games that I remember. There is a stat system, but raising the stats is usually a unique event like fondling the daughter, so that's fine. It's been a while, but I think DMD had failure states, where you can just fuck things up to game over. I don't think that type of thing serves much purpose. Giving a player a two choices when one of those choices is just wrong isn't really a meaningful choice imo. It just becomes a test at that point. (If I'm thinking of the wrong game, I apologize.) I do remember that in DMD you have some chances to bang other characters like her friends, but that doing so cuts off certain routes with the daughter. Something that I didn't feel was clear enough during the game. Like when it comes to this event later you won't have enough points to get the best result, stuff like that.

Illusion games are a bit of an odd one in that sense. They kind of have the inverse problem to what I'm talking about here. I've played several Illusion games and I often thought they'd be more fun if they had more actual gameplay. They've done some minor gameplay elements of dating sim type butter the girl up first (or break her down). I think sexy beach resort had you get a few items from exploring and had a super shit combat system. They rarely tell much of a story, it's usually paper thin. It seems like they are a big enough company that they could hire some actual game designers/writers and make something really good. They are usually just fuck a bunch of custom girls games. Which serves a purpose and seems to be working for them, I just think they could be more than that.

 

[OhWee]

Slightly off topic, but here's a story that intrigues me as a game setting (as an erotic game) except for the fact that the underage part makes it a bit hard to do so...

You must be registered to see the links

Just goes to show how a determined young lady with a troubled past can end up causing shock waves within an industry.

For those not in the know, Traci Lords was a Penthouse Pet in September 1984 at the age of 15/16 (her forged/stolen documentation showed that she was 22), and she was very developed for a girl her age. So much so that she had pretty much everyone in the porn industry (with some notable exceptions) fooled r.e. her actual age. The stolen credentials helped too...

No doubt becoming sexually active at such an early age (she was raped by some boy she liked at the age of 10, and ended up getting pregnant at 15, and chose to get an abortion), well that may have kicked her hormones into high gear a bit earlier, probably causing her body to develop more quickly/fully as a result - hence making it a bit easier to pass herself off as an 'adult'.

Anyways, due to her growing popularity and skill as a porn star, she earned the nickname 'Princess of Porn', and was one of the most sought after and highest paid porn actresses at the time.

Yeah, Traci's mom's ex-boyfriend Roger Hayes (read the story I linked), he's a real charmer... he's the one that 'hooked Tracy up' with a supply of coke and (through a friend) the fake credentials that made this possible.

This didn't end well for a number of people. When the feds got word and chose to crack down on this underage porn, well a few people ended up facing prosecution, but somehow Traci (as the 'victim') was left more or less untouched, although the porn industry blackballed her pretty much immediately (can't really blame them)... And despite occasional (non-porn as well as erotic) roles since then, she's more or less faded into obscurity, with occasional appearances to remind us that she's still around.

There's also a definite 'rebellion against the parents' aspect to this story as well. No doubt the abusive relationships with the parents played into this.


As for trying to use this as a basis for a porn game story...

The problem with trying to rework this story is that having the female main character's adventures starting at 18, well that's compressing about 8 years into one... I suppose that you could 'allude' to her being raped by some boy she was attracted to at a younger age without showing it, but that might not get past the Patreon censors. I'd imagine that a few people would want to 'see/experience' that ingame (after bumping our heroine's age past puberty of course). And at 18 most people are already considered adults in the legal sense for most purposes, so it loses a bit of intrigue...

It does have some nice corruption elements in it though, for those that like that sort of thing. Cocaine, falling into the world of doing porn magazine shoots and porn videos, being found out by the boys at school...

Yeah we have other games with those themes, but I find this particular story rather intriguing, i.e. following our 'fallen heroine' as she flees abusive relationships only to fall into others, and gets sucked into the alluring but seedy world of porn... but as I mentioned it loses some/most of it's impact with the 18+ requirement. I suppose someone could try to pull a fast one with the story, via some 'fan' making an 'unauthorized' patch that 'corrects' the story elements, but the developer of course wouldn't want to (openly) encourage that in any way.

An ongoing challenge might be to keep the authorities, teachers at school, etc. off balance while trying to rake in more cash to augment the female MC's lifestyle (better places to live, fancy cars, etc.). As a corruption game, you could even introduce the element of 'buying off' unscrupulous investigators, etc. with favors... That cocaine habit could be a bitch though.

I suppose you could have 'layers' of bad endings: i.e. our heroine goes to jail, our heroine manages to avoid jail time while others are prosecuted, our heroine keeps everyone fooled, except for that investigator whom is now her 'sugar daddy'...

But of course none of this will make as much sense if she's already 18 to begin with, unless there is some 'law' or something that postpones the 'age of consent' to 21... or maybe she lives in a place where porn shoots with 18 year olds are otherwise illegal.

Anyways, I'd buy a 3D Traci lookalike as 18 much more quickly than say Elena and Jennifer from DMD... and yet thanks to nudge nudge wink wink, well somehow that game has 'gotten away with it'.

Ahh well. There are similar corruption games out there I suppose, I just find this particular story fascinating. The fact that Traci (and Roger) managed to pull this off in the first place... sure it's possible but still interesting.

Camera Business: The Story of Didi is probably my fave game that falls somewhat along these lines, but it's a different story, other than the 'helping Didi earning a rep as a porn star' thing. That game is more about developing Didi's skill, and maybe getting her to marry you, not so much about the 'intrigue'.

Chloe 18 has some similar elements as well, but that story unfolds in a different fashion, and it has a different 'tone'...

Katie's Corruption - yeah different story, different vibe (Katie is blackmailed/forced down the path, as opposed to 'choosing' on her own).

Rise of a Pornstar - yeah maybe, although when I took it for a spin, it didn't 'click' with me for whatever reason.

Well that's enough musing about adapting Traci's real life story I suppose! Hopefully you enjoyed the read anyways!

 

[NaillMcDracken]

I can only say - Thank you very much! Now I have a clearer idea for my project.

 

[apatheticcreative]

Like some others mentioned, I was all ready to disagree after your first paragraph, but in the rest you made some good points. Here's my two cents:

I think some players are eager to get to the "main event" in erotic games, and anything they have to do on they way there is seen as getting in the way. This isn't helped by the fact that most erotic games are fairly amateur efforts, so the gameplay isn't exactly earth shattering. If the gameplay is uninspired, boring, annoying, or otherwise just not fun, it doesn't matter how amazing that sex scene is. A player isn't going to want to go through it to get there.

Look at the majority of erotic games on Steam or elsewhere. Most of them have safe, simplistic gameplay. Jigsaw puzzles, match-3, variations on Qix or Breakout, visual novels, simplistic RPG Maker games. Turns out the hard part of making a game is the part where you have to make a game. Porn is easy enough. (Good porn is less easy.) You can use Illusion's Studio Neo, Daz Studio, or even comission an artist to draft something up for cheap enough. Fitting it all together into a fun and interesting gameplay experience? That's actually really hard to do. Most of those who are ready and willing to attempt it are often amateur developers, and it shows in their work. The pros are much more hesitant to sign their name on a porn game. The end result; a lot of porn games. Very few good, well designed, fun porn games.

So step 1: Make a good, fun to play, and well designed game. I think this should be a given whether you're making porn or not.

Next, you mentioned the need to "tease" the player, and give them a little taste here and there to keep them going. I agree, though I think if the actual gameplay is good, there's less need for erotic teasing. As an example, I hesitate to call visual novels "games", but they are certainly their own thing, and there are some very good ones. I've played visual novels where I came expecting porn, but what I got was an absolutely wonderfully written story that grabbed hold and didn't let go. Not so much as a nipple in sight anywhere, for hours. It was only several hours in when a sex scene started up that I was reminded I was playing a porn game, and I wasn't even mad. In fact, all that extremely good writing made that sex scene a particularly powerful one that resonated even stronger. I wasn't tits and ass for the sake of tits and ass. I was invested.

As an RPG and fantasy worldbuilding fan, I'm a strong believer in believability and suspension of disbelief. Basically, it doesn't have to be completely realistic. It just has to be believable enough that I can push aside reality without too much effort. I want to get invested in the world you built. I understand everyone has different tastes and kinks, but when your character has terrifyingly unrealistic proportions, such as tits that would have to weigh hundreds of pounds each, or characters that are ready to jump on your knob before they even so much as know your name. It takes me right out of the world and forces me to acknowledge that I'm just a sad person playing a sex game. This is why I'll happily install a Skyrim mod that allows for detailed nude bodies, but I won't install one that makes the females run around in chain-mail bikinis. One adds a layer of sexy to the game and makes sense. The other does not. It's cold in Skyrim, and chain-mail bikinis are extremely impractical and useless as armor.

So step 2: The player wants to get invested in your game. Design it in a way that allows them to.

Finally, step 3, the porn is not the point. Hear me out. Sex does not make for interesting gameplay. Visually, it can be interesting. That's why there's a multi-billion dollar porn industry. Games are about actively participating though, otherwise they aren't games at all, they're movies. The trouble is sex just doesn't translate very well over to a video game. It's about emotion, chemistry, and feeling between people. Taking all this and boiling it down to some button inputs just doesn't work very well. So what do you do? Focus hard on all the things surrounding the sex that does translate over to video game form well. If you take out everything sexy and erotic from your game, you should still have a good and competent game there that's worth playing. Visual novels, again, do a good job of this as they release "all ages" versions that prove still compelling even with the sexy scenes removed. Make sex and eroticism an element of your game, but don't make it the game itself.

 

[Hadley]

I totally disagree. The Games should feel like a good interactive Romance-Movie, just more explicit. I don't need Tits shoved into my Face every 2 minutes.

 

[Alcahest]

There is a big fallacy in the thread start, claiming that some game devs are "missing the point of the game" and statings things like "the reason we play the games on here is because we want them to be erotic". Like if game devs are somehow bound by some rules just because their game is leaked or released on f95zone. The devs do whatever they want to do. Missing the point of their own game? That's ridiculous. If they want to make a game where there is hardly any nudity then that's their game. You don't like it, don't play it. If someone makes a game, they are not bound by any imaginary rules of yours.

 

[DuniX]

I totally disagree. The Games should feel like a good interactive Romance-Movie, just more explicit. I don't need Tits shoved into my Face every 2 minutes.

A movie you can watch in 2 hours.
An "Adult Game" here you can play for two years before you can get to the fucking part.
All for what? A story on the level of fanfiction?

If developers want story they should release a finished product, none of this piecemeal bullshit.
Otherwise they should make Every Update a satisfying amount of content.
Or make an actual Erotic Game with Gameplay that is actually Fun and Replayable.

 

[GuyFreely]

"Now that's a thread I've not seen in a long time." I was wondering why I had so many notifications.

Erokan Glad it was of some help.

apatheticcreative I feel like I said this somewhere in here, but yes, if you can make a really solid story or a really fun game and the erotic part is the icing on the cake, then great. That does not seem to describe the majority of titles on here. Far too often I'm asked to play a subpar ripoff of a good game with the promise of seeing some nudity at some point. If I want good gameplay, I'll probably just play a game without nudity. I have dozens of games in my Steam library I've never touched that have better gameplay than most of the games here.

This gets into what GRasputin is talking about as well. If I'm just looking for entertainment, I look elsewhere. Similarly, if all I want is porn, there are places for that. I come to this site for something in between. I expect (perhaps wrongly) that what I find here is somewhere in between pure entertainment (no ero) and pure erotic content (no real engagement). It's a spectrum, you can have a little or a lot of either, but I think having almost no erotic content and having almost no engaging content are both problems. Clearly, this thread was aimed at the former.

If I see a game on here that has the tag "no sexual content," I just pass on by. I don't begrudge them and this thread isn't aimed at them. At the same time, this isn't exactly Newgrounds or something. I'm talking about 99% of the titles on here that do have erotic content.

Does every game have to follow the same rules? Not at all. I do think there are some bare minimums though. Take an extreme example. Let's say someone put a game on here where you have to play 40 hours of a really bad ripoff of pong to see one poorly rendered boob (not even a pair). I think most people would agree this is a waste of time, even trollish. Somewhere between that and your favorite title on this website is a magic line that splits what's acceptable/tolerable and what's not. That line might be different for different people, but you don't want your game anywhere near that line. These are the games this thread was aimed at originally.

People have been using erotic content to boost the desirability of their otherwise less engaging content for decades. Look at movies, especially of the 80s and prior (it still happens), that were fairly mediocre but with nudity sprinkled in. Lots of middle of the road or just bad comedy, action, and horror films that used nudity as a crutch. Sure, great movies can have nudity, but it's not used the same way. It's often purposeful and less exploitative, it doesn't NEED the nudity to bring people in.

I think of it as sort of a scale of tolerance. These are not distinct groups, but I'm going to call out specific points on the scale.

On the one end, you have extremely engaging content. Your favorite movies, TV shows, and games fall into this category. They may or may not have erotic content, but you would enjoy them all the same with no erotic content at all.

At some point, you hit a level of quality where you give it a shot, but lose interest and don't finish. Something at this level might win you over with a bit of erotic content thrown in. The story isn't great, but I get to see tits now and then so I'll stick with it. This is the category for those 80s movies.

Then you start to hit the level where you just aren't interested in something on its own. At this level, you might be persuaded if the erotic content is worth the hassle. You don't really like it, but it's barely tolerable. Something that has "really good renders" or happens to hit your particular fetish.

Eventually, no amount of erotic content can convince you to slog through whatever it is. This is when people resort to gallery dumps or just avoid the title.

It feels like most (not all) of the titles on here fall into one of the two groups in the middle. Which is fine. You just have to know what you are making. If you are making an erotic game or VN and your gameplay or story isn't stellar, then throw your player a bone (unintentional pun, but I'll leave it in). I think it's fair to assume that some part of the reason a person is playing your game is for the erotic content, so let them have it. You don't need "tits shoved in your face every 2 minutes", but give them something.

There are other problems like games just having you fuck every person you meet within minutes of meeting them. That's a whole separate topic though. Everything with moderation. It's very much about pacing and balancing. I'm sure I've repeated myself a bit here, but it's been two years.