I think some designers are missing the point of making an erotic game

[GuyFreely]

Here's a hint, it's the word before game in the title. That's right, erotic. Let's not be coy and call it an adult game, we came here to see pixels doing naughty things. Why, then, do so many games pad or fill in with non-erotic content? I think some of the bad habits of the larger gaming community have carried over into these games.

Here's one of them: dollars per hour. (But most of the games are free! Yeah, bear with me.) There is a commonly held belief that games, the kind you can find at a game store, need to provide hours of entertainment to be "worth" the price. You'll find yourself collecting 10 bear asses or fighting 500 skeletons, whatever. If the core gameplay is fighting stuff, then let me fight all day. The problem becomes when an erotic game simulates boring repetitive tasks as gameplay. You go to work, you collect $20. When you collect $180 you can buy a spy camera to see nude ladies. Only 8 more work days to go! I didn't load up your game to do a boring job, I have one of those and it's equally unsexy.

Now I much prefer games where every time you go somewhere or interact with someone you get either story progression or erotic scenes. That being said, you don't have to make the grind boring. Spice it up, tease the player with some almost erotic content. If you are going to make me "earn" my erotic content, then give me something to enjoy before I earn it. If I have to go to the gym to get buff, put some babes working out in sexy outfits. But, every time I go, there should be something new to see. I don't want to see the same two ladies doing the same two exercises ten times. You might say, but that's a lot of work, rendering ten different workout scenes with different ladies. Well then don't make me go to the gym ten fucking times, how about that?

Here's a good and bad example of how to handle this, in the same game no less! In Milfy City when you go to work for your sister, your job is take photos of your sister in sexy clothes. YES! This is the kind of activity I can get behind. Oh I have to take pictures of hot women in sexy clothes, I mean if I have to. How did I get the money to buy the camera? I had to ask my dad for money a couple times and find some lying around then cheat at a weird mini game on computer. Ah, you were so close ICSTOR. Then there is working for your mother, while it does have some scenes, the job proper is largely a hidden object mini game (sigh). Please stop putting time wasting activities in these games.

The other problem along these lines is what I would refer to as the "slow burn" game. Where the erotic part of the game is all at the back end. These typically involve corruption games, where a woman becomes more lewd over time. It can also involve games highly focused on developing a relationship slowly over time. Now I don't fault these games for working their way up to the content, but you really have to keep the pacing. If I'm trying to woo my favorite girl, but it's at least 30 solid minutes before I get to any sexy times, give me a taste here and there. Most often this comes in the form of scenes where you peek on them or get some accidental nudity. These are tried and true methods, but there are plenty of ways to handle it. Just don't forget why the player even loaded your game to begin with. This is even easier if the player is a female protagonist, because people get naked on their own all the time.

Here's an example of what not to do in these situations. In a Wife and Mother, this is a corruption style slow burn game where the player is the titular Wife and Mother. Now I believe the designer is going for the sexually frustrated desperate housewife vibe. The thing that baffles me is that the early version of the game has what seems like 100s of rendered scenes but almost none of them are erotic. The main character goes through dozens of wardrobe changes and even some bathing scenes and you never even see a nipple. The most you see is her covering herself while nude. At one point she is changing clothes, with her bra off facing away from the camera! I literally said "fucking why?" at this point. The most erotic content I found in the game was to do with the maid and even that is very tame.

I just feel like with the pure amount of effort that has been put into the game's renders, they are missing the point of the game. I've seen entire games with less renders than WAM currently has but about 1000% more erotic content and been perfectly happy with them. Maybe when the game develops a little more we'll be treated to 100s of erotic rendered scenes, but I feel like the ratio is way off. I personally think they are wasting their time and the player's at this point, though that is bound to change (I hope). Don't get me wrong, I think the game is high on quality, just low on substance.

In short, please don't forget why people are playing your game. There are plenty of non-erotic dating sims and whatever other genre your game might fall into. The reason we play the games on here is because we want them to be erotic, plain and simple. You want to make the player earn it, fine. You want to develop a rich story, great. Just make it erotic. Even though I don't like the term, these games are for perverts. I say that with no malice or derision. I'm stating a fact. The players are horny and looking for an outlet, so give it to them, that's why we are here right?

[I realize I was writing from a perspective of a male looking for female pornographic content, but feel free to substitute your own personal tastes and kinks.]

 

[uradamus]

Based on the first paragraph I expected to disagree with most of the things you'd have to say here, but it turns out this was a fairly well thought out post with a lot of good points, heh. I'm with you on cutting out the needless stat grinds without regular unique pay-offs each step of the way. Summertime Saga suffers a lot from that one; both with the stats and money making.

I'm fine with mini-games being added as long as they have a decent reward and are fun. I'm thinking about putting a simple strip card game into the game I'm working on as an optional feature the player can challenge some of the characters with. I also wouldn't mind having some side voyeur features that aren't strictly necessary, but there for those like me who enjoy such things. But again without locking it behind needless grinding.

I can see having routes/scenes where there may be little action with certain characters in a game, if that is the point of the character. But if the character is meant to be playing a sexual role in the game, then the majority of their renders should be dedicated to sexy time scenes.

 

[GuyFreely]

I'm fine with mini-games being added as long as they have a decent reward and are fun. I'm thinking about putting a simple strip card game into the game I'm working on as an optional feature the player can challenge some of the characters with. I also wouldn't mind having some side voyeur features that aren't strictly necessary, but there for those like me who enjoy such things. But again without locking it behind needless grinding.

A stripping mini game sounds like a perfect fit. It's light fun, and a bit or maybe very erotic. As long as it doesn't outstay it's welcome, sounds like a great idea. I'm not saying no grinding and I'm not saying no mini games. I'm saying give some consideration to the genre. If you are making the player or even allowing the player to do an activity, make it enjoyable for them.

 

[Grundy12]

I sort of agree and sort of disagree.

My favorite porn games are the ones that are good games that have porn, and not good porn that have game elements.

So I agree when you say that grinding the same event over and over to get money to buy a camera or whatever makes for a bad erotic game... but that is just because it would make for a boring game as well.

Examples of games I really like are Queen Opala II and Noxian Nights. Both are good RPGs, not professional level but still upper tier when it comes to RPG Maker, and both have some great erotic content.

Now Noxian Nights is a nukige that starts with a rape and a blowjob, so it gets straight to the point and may not be the best example for what I'm talking about, but in Queen Opala specifically real erotic events can be very far and in-between, and minor teasing events are also not that common, and some characters you think would have scenes just plain don't. But I still really enjoyed the game for the game, in a way I can't with, say, visual novels.

And, like, if I could play Persona 4 but at the end of social links I get to see some action with Yukiko or Chie, I'd be fine with it because Persona 4 is great even without sex.

 

[Agent HK47]

So far, the game I have tried that does the best job balancing the work/reward grind, is Long live the Princess. I think this game does a very good job of making you work to achieve something, while also constantly rewarding you in various ways.

This is just my personal opinion ofc.

 

[GuyFreely]

So far, the game I have tried that does the best job balancing the work/reward grind, is Long live the Princess. I think this game does a very good job of making you work to achieve something, while also constantly rewarding you in various ways.

This is just my personal opinion ofc.

I agree, that one does a decent job of moving things along and giving you rewards here and there. Like the training with the fighter lady (forgot her name) seems to be different each time. That's what I'm talking about. Just don't make me repeat the exact same content over and over. On the flip side, that one has the "New Game+" idea in it, where you get to start over with better stats. It's sort of a cheap way to extend playability that other games have incorporated. I've never personally liked the system much. It irks me that there is potential content locked behind hurdles you can't clear in your first go. I'm all for different paths in games, where you can play it again and maybe try to court a new character or just try a different approach. The caveat there being that you actually get a different experience and not just the same experience with minor changes.

 

[GuyFreely]

@Grundy12 I totally understand where you are coming from. In my mind they are slightly different genres and perhaps there's a bit of a fuzzy area in the middle. Sort of a spectrum if you will. I'm mostly talking about porn games where the erotic content is the focus. What you are referring to is more of a game that has porn and not specifically a porn game, if that makes any sense. If there are intricate systems and engaging gameplay mechanics, but occasionally there is nudity or sex, that's a different animal.

Like say there was a solid fighting game with combos and guard breaks, all that shit, and then when you beat you opponent they get naked or have sex. Like you mention, there could be a fairly involved RPG with skill points and equipment, but sometimes there's sex, great. I can appreciate those games in their own right, but it's not specifically what I'm talking about here. I'm mostly referring to games where the focus is purely on the erotic nature of it. I don't expect every part of the game to be erotic, you have to balance it out, there's a natural rhythm to a good game. But games that are just wasting my time with fluff I can't stand.

[EDIT] To further clarify my thoughts on this. I think any activity in an erotic game should A: Be erotic B: Progress the story or C: Be fun or engaging. Now I think every good game needs a lot of A and B in appropriate portions, C can be somewhat subjective. Obviously, if you hit the trifecta, you're doing great.

 

[DarkCube]

Always a pleasure to see a meaningful and mature discussion on the forum.
I've really enjoyed OP's point of view on the topic. And I absolutely agree that porn games and mindless grind come from different planets. One can hardly get a boner after an hour or even more of clicking through repetitive "daily tasks" in order to earn money/stats/love points, etc. And thank God, if all that grinding results in a decent sex scene with multiple poses and descriptions.Unlucky players might end up staring at a generic solo sex image, which blinks on the screen for a couple of moments and then the game returns back to the sad grinding orbit.

As a game developer, I can admit that it's not an easy task to keep the balance between an interesting read, the number of sex scenes and mini-games. But constant learning and skills improvement is something every dev should stick to. Speaking of skills, I'll be thankful if the OP and other respectable members can follow the link below, try out the free demo of my game and share impressions. It's an almost one hour-long(!) demo and I wonder if the above-mentioned text-art balance needs tweaking. The project's just getting started, so any constructive feedback is welcome.

 

[DarthSeduction]

You're not wrong. And while you sound a bit more extreme on some things than myself, there are areas where you're more lenient as well. For me, Grind is what you do when you don't have a good reason for your character's to fuck. Honestly, I didn't have that much of a problem with the Tic Tac Toe minigame in Milfy City, I get that it isn't erotic, but I played it rather well and was able to buy everything from the stores before I even started working for my sister. It wasn't like many other games that limit how much you can work or earn in a day or which make work cost you time, or create a system where you can't possibly earn all the money you need by adding an over the top financial burden on the player, thereby stretching out the game because you have to spend time working rather than playing. I'd say I spent maybe a half hour to 45 minutes on that minigame in Milfy City. It was somewhat rewarding, and not too frustrating, so I gave it a pass. It isn't perfect, but if you have to have a money minigame it isn't the worst.

Now, what you said about pacing is spot fucking on. There is a game out there that I'm sure we all know about that is something like 17 versions in and only just got to blowjob content. Hell, it even decided to end it's first version and start a second game because it was taking so long to get to the content. This game in particular has a fine premise but horrible pacing and incredibly inconsistent characters. And this is where I find we run into the biggest problem. Most games seem to have developers who can handle the art and the code (some have those problems as well, but bear with me) However most seem to have no clue how to write a compelling story. That is why so many games substitute story for grind, that is why you have games where the pacing is so incredibly off. It is why you have games where a character is retarded one second and brilliant the next. It's why you have games wherein the MC is actively working against the player's goal of getting sexual content. Too many people have an idea and some artistic skill, but not nearly enough know how to write that idea.

 

[GuyFreely]

If I have to spend let's say 30min playing a mini game, that mini game better be damn fun or I better get an immediate reward. Even then, you are testing my patience. You have to ask yourself, why am I making the player do this? If the answer is to space out the erotic content, then that's not good enough. As Darth says, it's a poor substitution for story. If you want the player, or the character even, to earn the erotic content through activity, just make it fun or engaging.

I'll use the same mini game from Milfy City (which was rock/paper/scissors in my version...) It was not fun, it was just RNG. You could lose your money as easy as you could earn it. I ended up saving before each "roll" and loading if it I lost. You could argue I was rewarded via buying the camera and being able to take pics of the sister, but I didn't get anything from the mini game experience. If I could have just cheated my way to the money even faster I would have done that. If I just had $1000 from the start of the game I wouldn't have missed anything. I think the very presence of that mini game is a cheat. It's admitting that there was no meaningful way to earn money, so it was shoe horned in. [Why did I even have to buy a camera, why didn't she just have one, who cares?]

As an exercise, I'll just come up with some ways of earning money I'd find more enjoyable off the top of my head.

-Taking naughty pictures or setting up spy cams and selling the results. (Assuming I get to see the results before or after selling them.)
-A memory game where all of the cards are original erotic art.
-Cleaning a pool where various ladies in bikinis show up every time for the player to ogle.
-Giving massages to partially clothed women. Maybe the mini game is finding the sore spots to sooth.
-Selling popsicles at the beach where ladies in bikinis suck on them seductively.
-Being a runner for a modeling agency where you fetch various items while half naked women do photoshoots.
-Collecting dirty towels in a women's locker room.

It doesn't have to be complicated, it doesn't even have to be particularly believable, but it should be something the player WANTS to do, not something the player is forced to do out of necessity.

 

[Frustratedbuffalo]

I just want a game I can play with one hand.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Hah I said tic tac toe, forgive me I'd only just woken up, it was rock paper scissors.

I agree with all your alternatives, but I think I'm also gonna have to kill that fantasy, because you'll run into the same problem from your first post about the gym, the person needs to make several unique work days. They're not gonna do that. So I'll actually submit my favourite in game work experience, mythic manor's article writing.

With mythic manor it operates on 4 day parts. During each day part you can perform one activity. Often one of those day parts can't be filled with an activity with one of the girls, just by chance, so you'll use that day part to get on the computer and write an article. It takes no time, and you will usually have at least one day part to do it each day.

Another thing that games could do, is abandon the day to day aspect. Look at almost any other media, time is usually completely random. Your character's time working doesn't have to be a part of the game, unless their job is part of it, like with a teacher, doctor, or some other situation where the point is abusing your power over and proximity to the girls. You could have activities in the game simply happen during the times you're not working, and give your character a weekly income. There's no reason to make earning the money a part of the game, and so long as you make things in your game cost a reasonable amount, no one's going to complain.

 

[Pharan]

I like porn games that play like ordinary games, but the rewards for these games is the porn instead of MMR or better items.. It's the meshing of both that I'm after. If I just wanted erotic content I probably wouldn't be playing a porn game in the first place. I'm completely happy looking for a spy camera or whatever else you mentioned.

I think a good example of this is slave lords of the galaxy, they have all sorts of minigames and puzzles you solve to get to that end reward. Being forced to solve an 8-puzzle or whatever in of itself isn't normally what I would be doing with my free time, but the achievement of that task for the erotic reward makes the content more worthwhile in my eyes.

 

[Lucifer_Morningstar]

Here's a hint, it's the word before game in the title. That's right, erotic. Let's not be coy and call it an adult game, we came here to see pixels doing naughty things. Why, then, do so many games pad or fill in with non-erotic content? I think some of the bad habits of the larger gaming community have carried over into these games.

Here's one of them: dollars per hour. (But most of the games are free! Yeah, bear with me.) There is a commonly held belief that games, the kind you can find at a game store, need to provide hours of entertainment to be "worth" the price. You'll find yourself collecting 10 bear asses or fighting 500 skeletons, whatever. If the core gameplay is fighting stuff, then let me fight all day. The problem becomes when an erotic game simulates boring repetitive tasks as gameplay. You go to work, you collect $20. When you collect $180 you can buy a spy camera to see nude ladies. Only 8 more work days to go! I didn't load up your game to do a boring job, I have one of those and it's equally unsexy.

Now I much prefer games where every time you go somewhere or interact with someone you get either story progression or erotic scenes. That being said, you don't have to make the grind boring. Spice it up, tease the player with some almost erotic content. If you are going to make me "earn" my erotic content, then give me something to enjoy before I earn it. If I have to go to the gym to get buff, put some babes working out in sexy outfits. But, every time I go, there should be something new to see. I don't want to see the same two ladies doing the same two exercises ten times. You might say, but that's a lot of work, rendering ten different workout scenes with different ladies. Well then don't make me go to the gym ten fucking times, how about that?

Here's a good and bad example of how to handle this, in the same game no less! In Milfy City when you go to work for your sister, your job is take photos of your sister in sexy clothes. YES! This is the kind of activity I can get behind. Oh I have to take pictures of hot women in sexy clothes, I mean if I have to. How did I get the money to buy the camera? I had to ask my dad for money a couple times and find some lying around then cheat at a weird mini game on computer. Ah, you were so close ICSTOR. Then there is working for your mother, while it does have some scenes, the job proper is largely a hidden object mini game (sigh). Please stop putting time wasting activities in these games.

The other problem along these lines is what I would refer to as the "slow burn" game. Where the erotic part of the game is all at the back end. These typically involve corruption games, where a woman becomes more lewd over time. It can also involve games highly focused on developing a relationship slowly over time. Now I don't fault these games for working their way up to the content, but you really have to keep the pacing. If I'm trying to woo my favorite girl, but it's at least 30 solid minutes before I get to any sexy times, give me a taste here and there. Most often this comes in the form of scenes where you peek on them or get some accidental nudity. These are tried and true methods, but there are plenty of ways to handle it. Just don't forget why the player even loaded your game to begin with. This is even easier if the player is a female protagonist, because people get naked on their own all the time.

Here's an example of what not to do in these situations. In a Wife and Mother, this is a corruption style slow burn game where the player is the titular Wife and Mother. Now I believe the designer is going for the sexually frustrated desperate housewife vibe. The thing that baffles me is that the early version of the game has what seems like 100s of rendered scenes but almost none of them are erotic. The main character goes through dozens of wardrobe changes and even some bathing scenes and you never even see a nipple. The most you see is her covering herself while nude. At one point she is changing clothes, with her bra off facing away from the camera! I literally said "fucking why?" at this point. The most erotic content I found in the game was to do with the maid and even that is very tame.

I just feel like with the pure amount of effort that has been put into the game's renders, they are missing the point of the game. I've seen entire games with less renders than WAM currently has but about 1000% more erotic content and been perfectly happy with them. Maybe when the game develops a little more we'll be treated to 100s of erotic rendered scenes, but I feel like the ratio is way off. I personally think they are wasting their time and the player's at this point, though that is bound to change (I hope). Don't get me wrong, I think the game is high on quality, just low on substance.

In short, please don't forget why people are playing your game. There are plenty of non-erotic dating sims and whatever other genre your game might fall into. The reason we play the games on here is because we want them to be erotic, plain and simple. You want to make the player earn it, fine. You want to develop a rich story, great. Just make it erotic. Even though I don't like the term, these games are for perverts. I say that with no malice or derision. I'm stating a fact. The players are horny and looking for an outlet, so give it to them, that's why we are here right?

[I realize I was writing from a perspective of a male looking for female pornographic content, but feel free to substitute your own personal tastes and kinks.]

Damn!! Very well written, The only exception of the slow burn games can be Lily of the Valley. That game has evolved so well that it literally makes you go mad for the MC. A Wife and Mother was one of the bad games I have played. Thankfully I downloaded the skunked version. But ended up extracting the rpa file to see the content. People who actually downloaded the original sized game would surely have been disheartened. Another game that had good story build and atleast average amount of erotic content was V3X's Ethan's Legacy. Even today I wish for the creator to come back and continue the story line, because it was actually heading towards much more greatness, storyline wise. Every game nowadays has incest content and this content and that content. But it actually has very less story buildup and little erotic scenes. And the worst fact is that you can't even give your opinion since you are a free user. Trust me, I used to be a guy who used to download almost all renpy and rpgm games that got uploaded over here, but nowadays I download only a select few because I am interested in their storyline. Dreams of Desire is an example of that.
WAKANDA FOREVER

 

[uradamus]

With mythic manor it operates on 4 day parts. During each day part you can perform one activity. Often one of those day parts can't be filled with an activity with one of the girls, just by chance, so you'll use that day part to get on the computer and write an article. It takes no time, and you will usually have at least one day part to do it each day.

Another thing that games could do, is abandon the day to day aspect. Look at almost any other media, time is usually completely random. Your character's time working doesn't have to be a part of the game, unless their job is part of it, like with a teacher, doctor, or some other situation where the point is abusing your power over and proximity to the girls. You could have activities in the game simply happen during the times you're not working, and give your character a weekly income. There's no reason to make earning the money a part of the game, and so long as you make things in your game cost a reasonable amount, no one's going to complain.

With Mythic Manor, you can actually often fit in work along side another interaction in the same time slot, as long as you don't do anything else before it. For instance if the last time slot dropped you into the hallway, go straight into your room, turn on the computer and go straight to the work without stopping to look at the cameras or anything. There is a good chance you will finish work and still be on the same time slot.

As to your suggestion of cutting out work as an interactive thing, just making it something that eats up a slot so you could get a weekly income, that's the compromise I've been giving the most thought to lately. I was thinking of just making the MC something like a freelance illustrator and have it so the player has to skip a handful of time slots a week for work to get their pay check. It could be fit in any slot, only done once a day, and only needs to be done say 3 or 4 times a week to get your pay. It would just get a screen transition to the next time slot and maybe one of several random flavor texts to say how work went.

 

[DarthSeduction]

With Mythic Manor, you can actually often fit in work along side another interaction in the same time slot, as long as you don't do anything else before it. For instance if the last time slot dropped you into the hallway, go straight into your room, turn on the computer and go straight to the work without stopping to look at the cameras or anything. There is a good chance you will finish work and still be on the same time slot.

As to your suggestion of cutting out work as an interactive thing, just making it something that eats up a slot so you could get a weekly income, that's the compromise I've been giving the most thought to lately. I was thinking of just making the MC something like a freelance illustrator and have it so the player has to skip a handful of time slots a week for work to get their pay check. It could be fit in any slot, only done once a day, and only needs to be done say 3 or 4 times a week to get your pay. It would just get a screen transition to the next time slot and maybe one of several random flavor texts to say how work went.

Even that is a bit more than I was talking about. Recently myself and a fellow developer have been talking about breaking away from the daily progression style most games go with. Instead of following our character as he wakes up each day and goes about his day we intend to simply follow them for the important bits. Think of your average television show. You don't follow the character through their boring parts of the day unless its being played for comedy. There's no reason that a similar concept of time and progression can't be applied to our games. For my part, I'm in the midst of writing a story following a girl who's a senior in high school, and the story is going to take a more, and this comparison is mostly related to time, but a more Harry Potter like story progression. We aren't going to follow her to every class, just the ones that are critical to the plot. We aren't going to go to the bathroom with her every day, just when something is going to happen. We aren't going to spend days grinding in between dates, if a date gets set up it will happen, and we will move on.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

This is definitely YMMV territory, I like having some gameplay as long as it offers something to the game. Let me think of some examples where it works out okay:

- Lust & Power. There is a progression system here. You fight demons for skill points and resources that you need to keep the game going and also to continue making progress on the H-content. The combat system is simple, you can basically figure out what you're supposed to do in each situation and it mostly becomes a matter of rolling the dice until you get the results you want. It's like a very light survival game, but I find the pacing very pleasant. You go out, do some battles, loot houses, and as soon as you have enough, say, food, you think ''awesome, now I can get the next scene with mom, can't wait to get back and see what it is''. At least to me, it wouldn't be half as good if you could just click through all the scenes with no interval at all. And you know exactly when the next scene will be available, it's not hidden behind story branches or hidden stats but rather in the loot you haul back. Oh, and there is actually some procedurally-generated sexy stuff as well sometimes when you're out looting but meh, mom is what it's really about. I wonder what OP would think of this progression system.

- Action/ryona games. Not too many on this site, Ghost Hunter Vena is a good example. You have cutscenes, which you have to progress through the game to see of course, but you also have H-content inside the combat system, which basically you have to do badly at the game to see. Or you can give in and load your game afterward. Or complete the game and see it in the gallery. Giving the player options is a good thing. Depending on your point of view, you could see the combat sex as a consolation prize or a tease, either way I'm a fan of this style.

 

[uradamus]

@DarthSeduction Ya, that makes a lot of sense, especially for a more story driven style game. For mine though, I'm going for something of a sim game that is inspired by Teaching Feeling. I plan to create a dev diary thread for it at some point in the next few days to share more details and my progress leading up to release for those interested. Anyhow, the way the game will be setup, with a lot of choice for the player regarding how they interact with the girl and others from around town throughout the day, it will tend to work well with a time slot system. It just makes things a lot easier in this situation.

 

[DarthSeduction]

- Lust & Power. There is a progression system here. You fight demons for skill points and resources that you need to keep the game going and also to continue making progress on the H-content. The combat system is simple, you can basically figure out what you're supposed to do in each situation and it mostly becomes a matter of rolling the dice until you get the results you want. It's like a very light survival game, but I find the pacing very pleasant. You go out, do some battles, loot houses, and as soon as you have enough, say, food, you think ''awesome, now I can get the next scene with mom, can't wait to get back and see what it is''. At least to me, it wouldn't be half as good if you could just click through all the scenes with no interval at all. And you know exactly when the next scene will be available, it's not hidden behind story branches or hidden stats but rather in the loot you haul back. Oh, and there is actually some procedurally-generated sexy stuff as well sometimes when you're out looting but meh, mom is what it's really about. I wonder what OP would think of this progression system.

It's not gonna be soon, as my plate is full. But I plan on releasing a game with a D&D feel to it at some point, it'll have combat and progression, and it'll also be the type of thing that shows a game like Lust & Power is poorly paced and grindy. Don't get me wrong, I loved the premise of the game, but it just got too much into the grind with not enough reward to make it worth the effort.

 

[j4yj4m]

As an exercise, I'll just come up with some ways of earning money I'd find more enjoyable off the top of my head.

-Taking naughty pictures or setting up spy cams and selling the results. (Assuming I get to see the results before or after selling them.)
-A memory game where all of the cards are original erotic art.
-Cleaning a pool where various ladies in bikinis show up every time for the player to ogle.
-Giving massages to partially clothed women. Maybe the mini game is finding the sore spots to sooth.
-Selling popsicles at the beach where ladies in bikinis suck on them seductively.
-Being a runner for a modeling agency where you fetch various items while half naked women do photoshoots.
-Collecting dirty towels in a women's locker room.

It doesn't have to be complicated, it doesn't even have to be particularly believable, but it should be something the player WANTS to do, not something the player is forced to do out of necessity.

I'd actually somewhat disagree here. As soon as it's about earning money it's always about necessity and unless a dev literally includes dozens of different and rather equal ways to get money they'll all get "boring" rather fast. So while things like selling pics from spycams, collection of towels etc. may be interesting once or twice, it becomes just as "unerotic" if you have to repeat it 20 times and have seen all the scenes. In that case I'd actually prefer there to be alternatives which are easy, fast and generic. Aunt Diane's garden game in SummertimeSaga a rather good example to me since it's of course very generic but lasts only 8-10 seconds for decent money. In my opinion that's actually preferable to repeatable erotic ways to earn money which last 2 minutes each and don't really provide anything. And yes, long lasting, non erotic, repeatable ways to earn money should indeed be the exception since they provide even less. In the end a good mix between repeatable generic quests/games to make a fast buck, longer erotic quests/games for fun and indeed some other quests/games to forward the story is likely the best outcome for every game.

Else I just want to mention that I do Indeed enjoy quite a few rather slow paced/story based games and I don't really see them as "pronography" but indeed as a game to play which includes erotic content. At least to me there has always been a difference between games which are basically made to replace pronography and very well suited to do so (I'm just naming "The Twist" as an example out of the ones I'm playing from time to time) and those which are aiming to be "normal" games with a lot of erotic content. I think it's important to not mix up those two and I would indeed assign them to somewhat different genres in my mind.