Others Going Deeper [Beta 1.5] [NRFB Games]

[Rosen King]

It's also often implied if not outright stated that the knight's academy is/was casual sex central, which also makes sense when you think about it. A bunch of young adults going to basically college except everyone is extremely physically gifted and they're there to learn how to be even more so? Yeah.

That part was clearly established, yeah. I imagine it's like the Olympic Village, which is apparently just one giant orgy. But I don't think there was any mention of it being a religious thing. I mean, if we look at it as these girls only being interested in each other for their physical form, that's kind of insulting to the Inquisitor, isn't it? I know we make jokes about them being a nerd, but that becomes less fun when you put the word "ew" in front of it.

And yeah, I meant to mention how it could also affect why they're so unbothered by the dungeon sex. Imagine you're trying to fight a heretic and they just stop for a moment to say a prayer to your god.

 

[NRFB]

But I don't think there was any mention of it being a religious thing.

I think it's less likely to be something hard written into policy/doctrine and more like an accepted cultural norm over a long period of time, I suppose.

I know we make jokes about them being a nerd, but that becomes less fun when you put the word "ew" in front of it.

The knights are certainly never "ew" about the inquisitor (outside of like the couple of camp chats that show up at really low favor I guess). Elli is flirting from literally minute one of meeting them, although I guess you can argue that's just how she interacts with people.
The real reason is just me not having written out a whole bunch of sex scenes, although in universe there is a certain amount of cultural divide that isn't present between the knights themselves as well.

 

[OozeEnthusiast]

The real reason is just me not having written out a whole bunch of sex scenes, although in universe there is a certain amount of cultural divide that isn't present between the knights themselves as well.

It would be nice to see that divide acknowledged a bit. My first impression playing the game is that the player character is a bit of a third wheel at camp. Part of that may also be on the fact that I didn't see the need to spend time slots socializing with the knights where there's so many other valuable things to spend them on. Either way it feels like the inquisitor has a stronger relationship with the witch and coraline than the knights.

 

[Rosen King]

It would be nice to see that divide acknowledged a bit.

By "acknowledged" do you mean to have them mention it in-universe and give an explanation, or "acknowledged" by the dev by "fixing" the inconsistency? I prefer the former, myself. Not that I want them to dislike the Inquisitor, but rather to acknowledge that there's some natural boundary that they're not carelessly jumping over, and will work towards crossing by becoming closer to each other. (Except Elli, who vaults over that boundary so fast that she gains a stack of Grace.) That's why I like the "respecting each other's cultural norms" idea.

Of course, the fact that I'm only interested in sex if there's mind control involved (even if - or *especially* if - it's romantic, "wholesome", and possibly even consensual) is probably a big part of the reason I want to see the followers of a Goddess of the Body hesitate to open their bodies to a follower of the Goddess of the Mind until they've bridged the gap between those two concepts and opened their minds to you as well. (Which they technically already have, just not sexually/romantically.) With a meddling, misguided Goddess of the Heart complicating things, of course.

 

[OozeEnthusiast]

By "acknowledged" do you mean to have them mention it in-universe and give an explanation, or "acknowledged" by the dev by "fixing" the inconsistency?

My personal opinion? Oh definitely the former. Starting with a rift between them is good conflict to resolve over the course of the game. Something to work with the knights towards overcoming, or to push the inquisitor to use hypnosis to ease along or bypass the need to win the knights comfort entirely. Being a third wheel is a fun dynamic, and I'd love to see some scenes play off of it.

Ideally I'd give each knight their own personal reason for being more professional than casual with the inquisitor that can be discovered and overcome by completing some task, similar to Coraline's missions. I'd love to see consensual mind control with all the knights, but it'd also be nice to see decisions made in the dungeon directly effect your relationship with the knights.

 

[NRFB]

Of course, the fact that I'm only interested in sex if there's mind control involved (even if - or *especially* if - it's romantic, "wholesome", and possibly even consensual) is probably a big part of the reason I want to see the followers of a Goddess of the Body hesitate to open their bodies to a follower of the Goddess of the Mind until they've bridged the gap between those two concepts and opened their minds to you as well. (Which they technically already have, just not sexually/romantically.) With a meddling, misguided Goddess of the Heart complicating things, of course.

What people want really is all over the place. It seems like I have a lot of fans who are very open about not minding if the porn game isn't overflowing with porn right away because they enjoy the game/writing enough even without it, which is nice. At the same time though it wasn't necessarily something I decided to do on purpose, and there are a lot of people who want to do more sex as the protag.

Something to work with the knights towards overcoming, or to push the inquisitor to use hypnosis to ease along or bypass the need to win the knights comfort entirely. Being a third wheel is a fun dynamic, and I'd love to see some scenes play off of it.

Ideally I'd give each knight their own personal reason for being more professional than casual with the inquisitor that can be discovered and overcome by completing some task

I've done some little bits and pieces toward each of the girls showing their personality hangups, though I think Raine is the only one who is straightforward about talking it out. It's actually something of a concern of mine that I've never been very good at pushing character development forward quickly though, which has its positives and negatives.

similar to Coraline's missions

I suppose the task system isn't actually hard tied to Coraline specifically, though I would want alternate visuals for completing something like this... It's also a bit harder to tie tasks into gameplay when we're talking about characters not on Eschahn's side.

Health update:
Fatigue still real bad. Got some more tests done and actually got some back that were abnormal. While it's weird to go "oh boy I might have an autoimmune disorder (or something along those lines) yay!" it is nice to have more of a direction. My regular doctor wants me to meet with someone more specialized, so I'm working on setting that up. Fingers crossed.

 

[OozeEnthusiast]

What people want really is all over the place. It seems like I have a lot of fans who are very open about not minding if the porn game isn't overflowing with porn right away because they enjoy the game/writing enough even without it, which is nice. At the same time though it wasn't necessarily something I decided to do on purpose, and there are a lot of people who want to do more sex as the protag.

Can't speak for other people, but I am very much on board with this being a good game that happens to have porn in it rather than a typical porn game. All sex all the time ruins a lot of games in my experience. More than just sex I want to see the protag get involved because they're an interesting character I want to see fleshed out too, and it can give us a more direct perspective into how the knights feel about the curses and the sexy traps when they're more relaxed and have their head on straight.

It's also a bit harder to tie tasks into gameplay when we're talking about characters not on Eschahn's side.

I can see that now. In absence of ulterior or conflicting motives, their default position is whatever's going to clear the floor most effectively, which the player should already be doing. It wouldn't reflect well on the knights if they were making requests to the effect of "Let me rest more" or "Let me watch another knight fight" because that implies that they think those tasks are of equal or greater importance to clearing the floor. Giving the knights tasks that amount to throwing to specific traps or monsters for sexual fantasies would be hot, but really doesn't make sense unless they're giving into corruption.

One possible solution would be giving each knight an attatchment to a progression system. Maybe something like spending extra time to disaseemle traps completely to find weaknesses in them for Lucette or Elli, or picking fights with the leaders of monsters for Raine. That's a big ask and would change a lot about the game though. I am a big fan of attatching systems to characters though, and you've already done that wonderfully with the witch and Coraline though.



I hope your health improves. It sucks to have a body that isn't working correctly.

 

[Rosen King]

Can't speak for other people, but I am very much on board with this being a good game that happens to have porn in it rather than a typical porn game. All sex all the time ruins a lot of games in my experience.

To be honest, even for the sake of eroticism, I feel like too much focus on just the sex drags games down. But that's mostly because I have no real interest in the "insert tab A into slot B" part of sex, except in how it exists as an expression of someone's thoughts and feelings. Like, if a character gets down on her knees and starts worshipping a guy's cock because she's been brainwashed into wanting to devote herself to his pleasure, that's hot as fuck. But if a girl starts bouncing on a guy's dick just to fill the sex quota for the sex game, I'm gonna want to skip past it. So character development is an essential prerequisite to sex, *especially* in a game about mind control, where a person's thoughts and feelings themselves are the source of eroticism.

...Of course, that's kind of a double-edged sword, because the more I get to know a character the less I want to see them subjected to "hard corruption", which tends to be the majority of mind control porn these days. As much as I enjoy brainwashing and "corruption", I don't like seeing a person reduced to a worse version of themselves. It's one thing to see a generic magical girl get an evil outfit swap in a short one-shot, but it's another thing entirely to see a developed character abandon or reverse the things that make them who they are. I'd rather see those things reshaped in favor of the protagonist while kept as close to their "self" as possible. For instance, Lucette's diligence and devotion can make her an ideal servant without making her abandon her ideals or loyalty to Syra. All you'd need to do is get her to accept the idea that "the Inquisitor is my Master who I love with all my heart", and the rest will easily fall into place. Raine and Elli would take to it just as easily.

Which then brings us to Coraline, and the other Fallen Knights... Since we didn't really get to know them before they "fell" (and, to be fair, we still don't know what the other two are like after "falling"), it doesn't hurt as much to see them corrupted. But *reversing* that corruption - or at least hijacking it while bringing them somewhat closer to their original state - can be just as fun as corrupting them in the first place. Taking control of them and twisting their thoughts until they abandon their current mission and swear loyalty to you... Isn't that what "corruption" is all about? And at the same time you'll get to see traces of their "original" selves shine through, getting to know who they are and feeling like you're actually doing something good for them, relatively speaking.

But I digress. At this point I think I'm just repeating stuff I already posted multiple times.

It's also a bit harder to tie tasks into gameplay when we're talking about characters not on Eschahn's side.

I can see that now. In absence of ulterior or conflicting motives, their default position is whatever's going to clear the floor most effectively, which the player should already be doing. It wouldn't reflect well on the knights if they were making requests to the effect of "Let me rest more" or "Let me watch another knight fight" because that implies that they think those tasks are of equal or greater importance to clearing the floor. Giving the knights tasks that amount to throwing to specific traps or monsters for sexual fantasies would be hot, but really doesn't make sense unless they're giving into corruption.

Well, there is an entire scene devoted to Lucette calling you out on *not* clearing out an entire floor before moving on, so that's a task she could definitely give you, along with stuff like "Get a knight to reject a curse" which is definitely not a task that Coraline would be giving you. Of course, these tasks could also be tied to Olivia instead, if that teaser line from the poll was an indication that her "fallen" state is actually obsessed to *destroying* Eschahn rather than serving her.

There could also be different bosses assigned by different knights that make more sense than if they were assigned by Coraline. For instance, maybe Elli starts to develop a sort of rivalry with the imps and asks you to let her challenge the sexiest one to a tease-off. Raine could be interested in challenging a beastkin, and Lucette might want to deal with the head maid. In fact, this could be a great excuse to actually have battles with the Fallen Knights, since it's not like Coraline's gonna-- ...Actually, come to think of it, it *would* make sense for Coraline to ask you to have the knights face her. A "Let me talk to Elli" task that spawns Coraline as a mark would be a great way to advance her character arc, but a "Let me talk to Coraline" task from Elli would work just as well. (I wonder how tricky it would be to make a monster that only reacts to certain knights, though... I suppose it could be as simple as having an event that despawns them if another knight shows up, or inflicting an unavoidable Pacifist debuff on them.)

Perhaps the knights requests could even be treated as persistent "achievements" across the run that are tied to individual character development, as opposed to the quick reward-and-repeat system used by Coraline. Although then we're getting into implementing an entirely new system instead of just expanding an existing one.

(Also, Elli would totally bribe you to let her rest more.)

While it's weird to go "oh boy I might have an autoimmune disorder (or something along those lines) yay!" it is nice to have more of a direction.

That's... good? Or not. I'm not sure if an autoimmune disorder is that easy to treat. I was hoping it'd be sleep apnea because from what I'm told, as long as you're able to use the CPAP machine, it basically fixes everything and puts you right back into a well-rested state.

 

[NRFB]

To be honest, even for the sake of eroticism, I feel like too much focus on just the sex drags games down. But that's mostly because I have no real interest in the "insert tab A into slot B" part of sex, except in how it exists as an expression of someone's thoughts and feelings.

Yeah but you know what puts asses in seats and money in the patreon collection plate.
Actually you don't because I don't because I don't actually have any data on how much people care about there being lots of porn vs lots of development and I'd get different answers on every relevant site that I could ask so uhhhhh I dunno what I'm going on about.

In any case, Elli being the only girl you can consensual sex (currently) seems appropriate for the characters but is probably less exciting for the fans.

Which then brings us to Coraline, and the other Fallen Knights... Since we didn't really get to know them before they "fell" (and, to be fair, we still don't know what the other two are like after "falling"), it doesn't hurt as much to see them corrupted. But *reversing* that corruption - or at least hijacking it while bringing them somewhat closer to their original state - can be just as fun as corrupting them in the first place.

UnPunished Coraline

Well, there is an entire scene devoted to Lucette calling you out on *not* clearing out an entire floor before moving on,

Partially just to let the player know that the game knows when they're skipping threats and that it does somewhat matter, though I would like a more elegant way to point the consequences of that stuff out in general.

I suppose it could be as simple as having an event that despawns them if another knight shows up, or inflicting an unavoidable Pacifist debuff on them.)

Perhaps the knights requests could even be treated as persistent "achievements" across the run that are tied to individual character development, as opposed to the quick reward-and-repeat system used by Coraline. Although then we're getting into implementing an entirely new system instead of just expanding an existing one.

Not really? I mean I guess it would need a better way to track what you've done and haven't, but having events be contingent on which specific knight is encountering them and storing what events have and haven't happened during a run are of course already things the game does.

That's... good? Or not. I'm not sure if an autoimmune disorder is that easy to treat.

Most of them seem to be varying degrees of "you'll have this forever and the symptoms can come and go but they can also be managed". I'm kind of unsure on what one it could be though, since I don't have symptoms of what my test results suggest would be the most common problems. I have my appointment with a rheumatologist set up for friday, in any case, so hopefully he can come to an actual diagnosis (and hopefully I don't have to drive out to see him a bunch of times because it's an hour drive).

 

[Rosen King]

UnPunished Coraline

See, this is what I've been saying! (Not in the current discussion, I'm jumping to older topics.) She's so much cuter when she's not trying too hard to be sexy! Even the version of herself that wants to be seen as a seductress would benefit from playing into her sweetness and innocence, portraying herself as a present you want to unwrap instead of a pair of boobs dangling off a lure. But instead, she'd probably deliberately try to do a "double-peace ahegao" and wonder why it's not acting like a siren's song.

Actually, I kind of like that aspect of her character. I'd like to see more scenes where Coraline gets called out for trying too hard and gets all defensive and pouty about it, ironically showing off more of her natural cuteness, like in her "I'm still sane" argument. Part of the reason I always make fun of her is because it's fun to do so. (I mean, the critique is honest, but the "mean girl" attitude is just for fun.)

I do wonder, though... Could it be that Elli was more important to her than she was to Elli, and she's trying to style herself as her idol who was always so cool and confident and sexy? That would be a fun direction for their story to take. Elli would have to deal with the unexpected concept of being a role model, and Coraline would be frustrated and confused that somehow the woman she looked up to as a sex icon is opposed to Eschahn and disappointed in the path she's chosen. And the sheer irony of a potential end to this plotline where Coraline is "saved" by being out-seduced by Elli.

 

[Privitarium]

Speaking for myself, in terms of data on porn vs development, I'm less interested in monster sex than sex between the knights and sex with the inquisitor. Also, I'm more interested in the porn that comes from regular development (ie. Elli's likeability scenes). I know that kind of defeats the point of all the curses, but oh well. I'm assuming curses will just affect the endings and not affect EVERY scene possible, but even that seems like a huge number of variables to account for, yeesh (unless you divide the endings into separate choices rather than one scene with a bunch of if/thens?).

So I guess you could say I prefer development over porn? Still waiting to see futaElli/Lucette though, because your writing is hot. Just in case you needed reminding.

 

[Ifllslonly]

Yeah but you know what puts asses in seats and money in the patreon collection plate.
Actually you don't because I don't because I don't actually have any data on how much people care about there being lots of porn vs lots of development and I'd get different answers on every relevant site that I could ask so uhhhhh I dunno what I'm going on about.

In any case, Elli being the only girl you can consensual sex (currently) seems appropriate for the characters but is probably less exciting for the fans.

I think the most important thing is to find the target audience. What exactly does the game offer and who will love it. So for a more mature audience, dialogue is super important, plot and character design (writing part) is super important. If the game is mainly about gameplay, it's better to mix it with some kind of kinky situations to build up the eroticism.
The more player agency there is for the porn part, the more types of players it can potentially attract, and the same goes for the kinks. The most important thing with porn is to stay in line with the main foundation of the game and to not overbalance everything else.

At this point I must mention that I haven't played the game yet (I don't have time ). Things I've already mentioned are universal, but I'm terribly sorry if things I say next appear to be wrong or already in the game.

From what I can see now, the main theme of this game is voyeurism (I'm not saying it's a main tag here). The main character fills the role of an observer, a rather neutral person. So, to put things I mentioned above to work: it would make sense to add non-romantic vanilla sex (for more types of audience, but in line with foundation). It shouldn't be romantic, in my opinion, because of the nature of observers in the first place. To focus the voyeurism part, it would make sense to add similar kinks like: exhibitionism, sadism, fetishism, masochism, frotteurism. It would also make sense to add avoidable NTR, again for more types of audiences. For NTR I would suggest both creature as unavoidable longtime companion/pet and also avoidable sentient being. Maybe add some sort of nympho curse, so girls just jump on each other and the PC to break the curse. Maybe to add some trap room that forse girls to do something or they get stuck forever.

In general, it's better to keep things avoidable and not go too deep into fetishes. Some feedback that may be universal is here and here (good game, recommended). Big conversation is here (dead game, not recommended).

I have a question. Do the preview images match the ones in the game? Maybe it's time to update the OP. And what about the AI CG tag.

 

[NRFB]

At this point I must mention that I haven't played the game yet (I don't have time ).

:V

Maybe to add some trap room that forse girls to do something or they get stuck forever.

"Room you can't leave until you have sex" just like my doujins!

I have a question. Do the preview images match the ones in the game? Maybe it's time to update the OP.

In general yes, although they are a bit old and I should probably work on putting together some new ones.

And what about the AI CG tag.

What about it?

 

[Ifllslonly]

What about it?

To put it in context, like I said, I haven't played it yet , so I don't know what to expect from the visuals. Did you train the AI on your art style, or did you just use it to generate the backgrounds?

"Room you can't leave until you have sex" just like my doujins!

I hope you didn't find my previous message too vague. My main intention was to share a line of thought and the reasons behind it, mainly psychological. So even if I wasn't right about the details, the basic logic of it would still work. I hope I wasn't too vague again

 

[NRFB]

To put it in context, like I said, I haven't played it yet , so I don't know what to expect from the visuals. Did you train the AI on your art style, or did you just use it to generate the backgrounds?

for the record, as I don't see any reason why I should hide it and never have, my generative ai usage disclosure would be:
Used to create most but not all backgrounds
Used to create/enhance some but not many UI elements
Used to create most but not all Monster/Trap images
Used to enhance some but not all character CGs

Because AI tends to have consistency issues, most of the time when I want to have a character with a static appearance I use a 3D program to model/pose/screenshot them, then composite some amount (0 inclusive) of AI adjustments to that screenshot, then manipulate that composition into the standard style for the game.

 

[NRFB]

Hey, how are you doing? I'm not doing well. Here's a billing pause/health update post (publicly available).

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I'm a real hgame dev now
I feel like throwing up

 

[Rosen King]

I feel like throwing up

From the health issues, or from the fact that you have the traditional Hgame dev health issues? Because there's nothing to be ashamed of from the latter. Really, the only reason it seems more common with these kinds of games is because of a combination of having small (usually one person) dev teams, long development cycles, and expected monthly updates. Health issues happen to everyone, there's just usually a buffer between how it affects the people who expect things from them.

but around December something else happened.

[...] I can't think of any particular event that predicated this. I didn't get sick (physically), and no event of any importance happened around that time

Well... It may be unrelated, but I can think of one thing that happened around that time. It was when the game transitioned from alpha to beta, mostly marking the end of what you seemed to consider the "fun part" of development - the very same part that you claim to still be managing even in this "barely functional" state. Perhaps the actual physical health part of this had been going on before that, but was masked by an increased motivation. If so, I'm sure the pressure and guilt of feeling like you're letting us down is only compounding the issue. (For what it's worth, I'm still having computer issues that would prevent me from playing, so this is no skin off my nose. It'd actually be convenient, if I wasn't worried for your health.)

Maybe finding some way to have fun and putting development out of your mind would at least help with some of the symptoms? Though I know that's easier said than done, especially with depression and anxiety and feeling like having fun is some "goal" that needs to be achieved and... ugh. But if you can manage it.

This went TERRIBLY due to anxiety stuff. I got 1.5 hours of sleep with 0% REM.

Oof, and the REM is generally where it happens (and why you don't remember it the next morning).

A home sleep apnea test is not covered by my insurance and would cost $900 so I don't really feel like that's a good gamble to take.

Y'know, when they first told me about the sleep study, I honestly thought they were just gonna sit there and watch me sleep (or at least record me) and tell me if they saw me suddenly stop breathing. Because, let me tell you, that's a thing that can be done if the apnea is bad enough (and if your listed symptoms are caused by sleep apnea, it's bad enough). I've caught my mom "seizing up" more than once, and I don't make a habit of watching her sleep. Maybe you can get a ghetto sleep study done just by recording yourself? And you don't need to stress over it too much because if anything goes wrong you can just try again the next night, or whenever's convenient.

 

[RagueltheUFO]

Dude, I just read your post on Patreon. Take all the time you can. The h game isn't as important as your health.

 

[Privitarium]

Regarding "pause development for your health," I'd like to temper that with "don't stop development completely if stopping makes you feel guilty". I go through similar depressive moods when I stop working and feel wasteful or guilty. The thing is adjusting my thoughts on what counts as "enough" (which it sounds you are doing).

You're managing some work, and while it seems insignificant to you right now, to me it is a heroic accomplishment for 1.5hrs sleep. If the writing is important to you, then I think it's fine to go ahead and let yourself wrestle with the writing. Even if you don't get any writing done, at least you spent time thinking about it, which is progress in itself even if you haven't got something tangible to show. But don't feel guilty for bugfixing instead of writing because it's less important. If a labourer fell off a ladder and broke his leg, I think we'd agree it would be a bit silly for him to feel guilty for drawing lines and writing notes (or whatever) instead of carrying beams or hammering posts. Work is work, and we're just glad that he's alive and didn't break his neck instead.

Take care. For what it's worth, coming from an internet stranger, I'm rooting for you.

 

[NRFB]

From the health issues, or from the fact that you have the traditional Hgame dev health issues?

The latter, although I do also often get upset stomach after eating. Don't know if it's related or just a stress response thing.

Really, the only reason it seems more common with these kinds of games is because of a combination of having small (usually one person) dev teams, long development cycles, and expected monthly updates. Health issues happen to everyone, there's just usually a buffer between how it affects the people who expect things from them.

You say that, but there aren't a lot of jobs where you can have no output from christmas to may and not be in trouble.
In any case, I'd really rather be not part of the many problems with the current hgame development scene if I can help it (I apparently cannot help it).

Perhaps the actual physical health part of this had been going on before that, but was masked by an increased motivation. If so, I'm sure the pressure and guilt of feeling like you're letting us down is only compounding the issue.

Some amount of these things are possible, yes. I've known for quite a while that it would REALLY help to have someone else that could take some of the writing work off my plate, but it's the problems of "how do I pay them?" and "how do I convey all of the stuff that I have planned and thought out in my head but haven't written down yet?"

Maybe finding some way to have fun and putting development out of your mind would at least help with some of the symptoms?

Fun is difficult currently. Honestly I've been having trouble opening up video games because it always feels like either "I know I could be doing this better" or "I can't learn this new thing properly" due to brain fog stuff.

Maybe you can get a ghetto sleep study done just by recording yourself? And you don't need to stress over it too much because if anything goes wrong you can just try again the next night, or whenever's convenient.

I actually have done recording myself sleeping through some apps specifically for it, which is the only way I'm able to add the point about not snoring very much. I'm able to hear myself breathing and occasionally slipping into short periods that are more like snoring, but there's no notable difficulty or disruption really. Again, doesn't TECHNICALLY rule anything out, but yeah.

Regarding "pause development for your health," I'd like to temper that with "don't stop development completely if stopping makes you feel guilty". I go through similar depressive moods when I stop working and feel wasteful or guilty. The thing is adjusting my thoughts on what counts as "enough" (which it sounds you are doing).

Yeah for sure. Truthfully I was somewhat conflicted on doing a pause because in my head it was like "well that's like admitting that you won't get enough done to put up any update during may" when I'm still not convinced that's the case, even if it is dependent on the ratio of good days to not good days.
Still, given the number of months without much happening, it feels like the more correct thing to do in a moral sorta sense.

You're managing some work, and while it seems insignificant to you right now, to me it is a heroic accomplishment for 1.5hrs sleep.

The 1.5 hours of sleep was just during the sleep study (and on a couple of other occasions where the anxiety is real bad). For the most part I do get the correct number of hours of sleep. Whether the QUALITY of that sleep is sufficient or not is unclear though.