[Game Pitch] Trying to make a swinging game and I want to get some feedback

[ChaosOpen]

Years ago prior to making What's Mine is Yours I noticed a distinct lack of something, while there were no shortage of NTR games in which husbands passed around their wives to various men, there were extremely few games in which wives returned the favor. So, I created the content I want.

Now I see the same problem with another tag, namely swinging. Not because there isn't content tagged with "swinging," there is plenty if you click the tag. The problem with swinging is that it is always just thinly veiled NTR. Sure, it might begin as swinging, with the MC sleeping with another man's girl for a scene, but soon the mask comes off as more and more time is dedicated to the fact that the MC's girl is sleeping with another man with little to no time given to the MC's own actions.

That, in my opinion, is not swinging, it's just NTR that uses swinging as a plot device. The thing with swinging is it must get the appeal right, to swinging couples the appeal lies not in your partner sleeping with others, but in you being able to sleep with someone new. Most couples that engage in swinging have been together for decades and grow bored of each other's bodies. They have tried every position and activity they can think of and now want something new. The appeal lies in the fresh and new with a brand new partner you don't know inside and out. That being said, it is kind of hard to convey that to the audience, after all, they are just now being introduced to this beautiful woman, and no matter how you tell them, they are going to want to see her naked and are going to grow jealous when they see someone aside from their self-insert inserting himself into her.

Thus, I decided to try a different approach, four friends, two male, two female, decide that rather than splitting their friend group by dividing into pairs to date, they decide to all four date each other in a quadruple. The setting would be in a manga club at school, four social outcasts who really only have each other and get along well. With a lot of back and forth as they take the piss out of each other as friends do. Each with their own weird subsection of nerd culture they all enjoy.



This confers several advantages, first and most obviously there is no "MC's girl" so there is nothing for the audience to view as direct cuckolding. Secondly, this makes the other male seem much closer and I can have the dynamic not as sleeping with each other's partner but two men working together to make two women happy. As such I can include scenes that would normally be taboo for a standard romance game, namely any scene that involves multiple males on a single female. Personally, I am not a fan of ffm scenes, I mean there is only one dick to go around so even if it is a threesome, a guy can still only satisfy a single girl at a time. But in a devil's threesome a girl can satisfy both guys at once. But obviously in your standard romance no guy is going to just let another guy tag in for a round of double-penetration, I mean some try it with sticking a vibrator in an unused hole or the more creative ones give one of the girl's a strap-on but generally you only really see two guys go to town on a single girl in corruption games or games with a female protagonist. I honestly cannot think of a VN that has wholesome double penetration. So, for those of you who like to see a girl filled with dick but wish it was less depraved, here is your solution.



I have also considered gay sex scenes both yuri and yaoi scenes. These scenes serve a large narrative purpose as demonstrating this isn't simply two groups of two that switch partners periodically, but an actual group. I was thinking of kind of building up to it akin to how girls are fine with lesbian things, I figure if a guy sees another guy naked a lot and sticks his dick into a hole already filled with his goo eventually the thought of doing things with another male will stop grossing him out. Thus, he would be more open to the idea of turning two duos into a quartet.

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[Icarus Media]

 

[EvolutionKills]

Personally, I am not a fan of ffm scenes, I mean there is only one dick to go around so even if it is a threesome, a guy can still only satisfy a single girl at a time.

Then the dude needs to learn how to use his hands and mouth. If you're capable of only using your dick to please a woman, you just aren't trying hard enough. Also, if the dudes are bi, there's no reason one of them can't be in the middle of a MMF sandwich.

I have also considered gay sex scenes both yuri and yaoi scenes. These scenes serve a large narrative purpose as demonstrating this isn't simply two groups of two that switch partners periodically, but an actual group. I was thinking of kind of building up to it akin to how girls are fine with lesbian things, I figure if a guy sees another guy naked a lot and sticks his dick into a hole already filled with his goo eventually the thought of doing things with another male will stop grossing him out. Thus, he would be more open to the idea of turning two duos into a quartet.

I'm a cishetero dude, and while I like to think that I'm confident enough in my own sexuality and masculinity to be cool with a MMF threesome where everyone is on board with that fact that I'm only there for the girl, even I'd largely be turned off if the male protagonist in a VN went bisexual. Browsing the games on here on F95Zone has broadened my sexual landscape, opening me up to kinks I didn't know I would enjoy; but they all still share the theme of being in service to my heterosexuality. I'm just attracted to the fairer sex, and no amount bro-threesomes is going to have me getting sexually aroused by another man's dick or the male form in general. I'm just not wired that way.

I get that the over abundance of bi-sexual women is a byproduct of the male gaze, stemming from a largely male audience and male creators. But if given the choice between participating in a MMF threesome where the male MC actively participates in pleasuring the other dude, or just being a voyeur and watching that dude please the girl without my involvement? I'll take the later over the former. I'm all for wholesome swinging, I'm just not interested in crossing swords to do so. Maybe there is a large gay or bi audience that would be all over this kind of content, but that's just my 0.02 dollars. Which is perfectly fine, it's not like I'm exactly hurting for content that caters to my sensibilities.

One of my more recent surprising new favorites is Cosy Café, a game that largely focuses on maledom but is delivered with a level of kindness, sincerity, and empathy that it instantly endeared me to the cast. So yeah, bring on the kinky wholesome train.

 

[DawnCry]

To be fair seeing how you are thinking about adding yaoi and yuri scenes perhaps you could consider just simply making a group of 1 male, 1 futa, 2 females, because male x male scenes in a game of this kind feels that you are making scenes for the wrong public, on the other hand male x futa scenes tend to be more acceptable.

 

[ChaosOpen]

To be fair seeing how you are thinking about adding yaoi and yuri scenes perhaps you could consider just simply making a group of 1 male, 1 futa, 2 females, because male x male scenes in a game of this kind feels that you are making scenes for the wrong public, on the other hand male x futa scenes tend to be more acceptable.

No, it needs to be two male, two female. As I stated, I want to see if I can create a satisfying swinging game that doesn't devolve into netorare.

 

[ChaosOpen]

I'm a cishetero dude, and while I like to think that I'm confident enough in my own sexuality and masculinity to be cool with a MMF threesome where everyone is on board with that fact that I'm only there for the girl, even I'd largely be turned off if the male protagonist in a VN went bisexual. Browsing the games on here on F95Zone has broadened my sexual landscape, opening me up to kinks I didn't know I would enjoy; but they all still share the theme of being in service to my heterosexuality. I'm just attracted to the fairer sex, and no amount bro-threesomes is going to have me getting sexually aroused by another man's dick or the male form in general. I'm just not wired that way.

I get that the over abundance of bi-sexual women is a byproduct of the male gaze, stemming from a largely male audience and male creators. But if given the choice between participating in a MMF threesome where the male MC actively participates in pleasuring the other dude, or just being a voyeur and watching that dude please the girl without my involvement? I'll take the later over the former. I'm all for wholesome swinging, I'm just not interested in crossing swords to do so. Maybe there is a large gay or bi audience that would be all over this kind of content, but that's just my 0.02 dollars. Which is perfectly fine, it's not like I'm exactly hurting for content that caters to my sensibilities.

One of my more recent surprising new favorites is Cosy Café, a game that largely focuses on maledom but is delivered with a level of kindness, sincerity, and empathy that it instantly endeared me to the cast. So yeah, bring on the kinky wholesome train.

Same goes for me, but I'm thinking as the writer so it is hard to put myself in the shoes of the reader. What I think would be an interesting scene that helps develop the characters and serves the plot might end up turning a lot of people away. That was the point of the idea, not because I thought it would be hot, but it would recontextualize the relationship between the two men.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Same goes for me, but I'm thinking as the writer so it is hard to put myself in the shoes of the reader. What I think would be an interesting scene that helps develop the characters and serves the plot might end up turning a lot of people away. That was the point of the idea, not because I thought it would be hot, but it would recontextualize the relationship between the two men.

If you don't personally find it hot, then don't. If you try to fake a kink, those who actually have that kink are gonna be able to tell; and you're not going to have any fun yourself actually making that kind of content. It's a lose-lose proposition. If that was genuinely your jam, I would be all for telling the story you want to tell. But if it isn't, you're probably better off not.

Unless you're ready to really put the work in. Talk with and consult a lot of people in the LGBTQ and polyamory communities to try and forge something that reads as authentic from outside your own cishetero lens of experience. It could be interesting. There are a fair few number of female protagonist games that I've enjoyed precisely because it was exploring the world through such a different perspective.

I just know that I myself would be woefully underequipped to create, pontificate, or cater to such a different perspective so far outside of my own. I wouldn't be comfortable writing an authentic feeling female protagonist story, because everything I'd write would be through a cishetero dude's lens. It might be hot for other cishetero dudes, but probably would seem 'off' to a female reader no matter how hard I tried.

 

[AgriasQuarto]

Bisexual and Polyamory is a kink combo I scrapped the bottom of the eroge barrel and still rarely found anything that satisfies, There are a few games on the forum that slightly scratches the itch, but they mostly lean towards open relationship where people do not mind banging random strangers without the romance aspect, in contrast with polyamory where you get intimate with multiple partners because because the bond you share with them passes the trust and love threshold, so the general outline of this sounds very enticing.

Same goes for me, but I'm thinking as the writer so it is hard to put myself in the shoes of the reader. What I think would be an interesting scene that helps develop the characters and serves the plot might end up turning a lot of people away. That was the point of the idea, not because I thought it would be hot, but it would recontextualize the relationship between the two men.

Personally I would not mind developers off-screening stuff that happened "in lore" but they lack the means to write/render a compelling scene, mentioning that the characters do engage in homocoitus would still add to their characterization, hearing them talk about partaking and enjoying it still adds to the narrative kinkiness.

As for the cast,
The Purist - Hunter
The Fujo - Klaara
The Romantic - Amber
That is a good lineup for a polycule about to get freaky, just to balance out the personality contrast maybe having Ethan be the joker of the group? The type that comes up with wild ideas and makes ridiculous comments knowing nobody would normally take him seriously, but sometimes inadvertently becomes the spark that sets off another persons fantasies. Well, depends on the chemistry you are looking for the characters to have, are they cautiously testing the waters and gauging each others receptiveness of exploring, or are they nosediving in eager to experience as much of their fantasies as possible.

 

[Chalker]

Meh, also this sounds more like polygamy than a swinging setup, nevertheless I'd think you wouldn't really capture anyone from the "I dislike ntr" camp either way with the premise that it's not your girlfriend but 'our' girlfriend.

Trickstar this lies in your fetish area, I think you'd give good feedback.

 

[Chalker]

Also you must be one hell of a boring person if you can't think of how you could make a mff+ scenario hot.

 

[Meaning Less]

Just make the game you want to make and stop overthinking about "where would this fit", if anything this is a job for the people tagging your game not yours...

As a creator you can only express yourself, how others are going to take your creation is completely outside of your control. Worrying about this stuff too much will only lead you into creative paralysis.

 

[Chalker]

Just make the game you want to make and stop overthinking about "where would this fit", if anything this is a job for the people tagging your game not yours...

As a creator you can only express yourself, how others are going to take your creation is completely outside of your control. Worrying about this stuff too much will only lead you into creative paralysis.

Honestly all devs should make games catered to me, I think that'd be best.

 

[Meaning Less]

Honestly all devs should make games catered to me, I think that'd be best.

The issue is most people don't even know what they want including yourself, one day you ask for monster girls the next day you ask for yaoi.

But this does makes me question where are all the "monster boys" games with cute designs, now I want it.

 

[Chalker]

The issue is most people don't even know what they want including yourself, one day you ask for monster girls the next day you ask for yaoi.

But this does makes me question where are all the "monster boys" games with cute designs, now I want it.

Thats not true! I mean I have ideas for games I'd like to make that include all the fetishes I like executed my way.

But overall I like monster girls and soft-femdom and that's pretty consistent!

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

I don't think you'll attract a swinging audience with this setup, that's just my initial take - it's too geared towards polyamory, so you risk not getting the swinging sharing crowd, while also-as others said- still scaring off the anti-ntr crowd.

To answer your initial premise, the way you build that sense of strong relationship but sexual boredom is just how its done in the real world but compressed - you have a length story with lots of sexual interactions between the mc and main LI, to a point where boredom sets it, then you branch out.

Think of how many people spoke up about wanting more sharing stuff on the dating my daughter thread in the later updates - because everything was old hat, it had grown stale, youve banged her to the moon and back and want something new.

Finally - I'll preface by acknowledging my bias in not liking eastern artwork/anime-art-themed games, but I think this backdrop makes the transition you're proposing more difficult. Call it cultural mores or whatever, but that style tends to lend itself more towards lengthy analysis of actions, brooding, suspicion of ulterior motives; all of which are things that fit nicely in a traditional ntr setup. To me, the western-style lighthearted bro banter is more congruent with a swinging setup.

That's not to say your characters have to act like stereotypes, or it can't be done that way, it's just a summary of my experience in the two respective game types, specifically in a sharing/swinging context.

 

[ChaosOpen]

I don't think you'll attract a swinging audience with this setup, that's just my initial take - it's too geared towards polyamory, so you risk not getting the swinging sharing crowd, while also-as others said- still scaring off the anti-ntr crowd.

To answer your initial premise, the way you build that sense of strong relationship but sexual boredom is just how its done in the real world but compressed - you have a length story with lots of sexual interactions between the mc and main LI, to a point where boredom sets it, then you branch out.

Think of how many people spoke up about wanting more sharing stuff on the dating my daughter thread in the later updates - because everything was old hat, it had grown stale, youve banged her to the moon and back and want something new.

Finally - I'll preface by acknowledging my bias in not liking eastern artwork/anime-art-themed games, but I think this backdrop makes the transition you're proposing more difficult. Call it cultural mores or whatever, but that style tends to lend itself more towards lengthy analysis of actions, brooding, suspicion of ulterior motives; all of which are things that fit nicely in a traditional ntr setup. To me, the western-style lighthearted bro banter is more congruent with a swinging setup.

That's not to say your characters have to act like stereotypes, or it can't be done that way, it's just a summary of my experience in the two respective game types, specifically in a sharing/swinging context.

What do you think of this story: MC and Wife are older, in their 40's and have been married for 20 years. The wife is a bit of a prude and sex is pretty much missionary only with a blowjob on his birthday. Needless to say, this has gotten pretty old and so they are currently in counseling with a sexologist to try and reignite their passions. On their last legs they decide to attend a week long swingers convention. MC begins sleeping with women and they are complete foxes, far different from his wife, and the women attempt to poach him from Molly, encouraging him to keep swinging and sleep with them more often. Wife learns about this and fearing her husband may leave her she begins to step outside of her comfort zone and try new things. Thus the driving conflict for the user, return to monogamy or keep swinging?

Honestly, I can't see myself making many friends among NTR's haters or lovers, the haters will dislike it because the wife is shared, the lovers won't like it because the MC is assertive and sexually competent. This is for the swingers crowd, people who don't mind sharing when there is a significant return on their investment.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

What do you think of this story: MC and Wife are older, in their 40's and have been married for 20 years. The wife is a bit of a prude and sex is pretty much missionary only with a blowjob on his birthday. Needless to say, this has gotten pretty old and so they are currently in counseling with a sexologist to try and reignite their passions. On their last legs they decide to attend a week long swingers convention. MC begins sleeping with women and they are complete foxes, far different from his wife, and the women attempt to poach him from Molly, encouraging him to keep swinging and sleep with them more often. Wife learns about this and fearing her husband may leave her she begins to step outside of her comfort zone and try new things. Thus the driving conflict for the user, return to monogamy or keep swinging?

Yeah that sounds decent to me, you've got me interested now.

Honestly, I can't see myself making many friends among NTR's haters or lovers, the haters will dislike it because the wife is shared, the lovers won't like it because the MC is assertive and sexually competent. This is for the swingers crowd, people who don't mind sharing when there is a significant return on their investment.

I can see this being the case, I guess I was trying to say with the polygamy style focus, you wont even get the "swingers crowd", by that I mean all the people I regularly converse with over at https://f95zone.to/threads/complete-netorase-sharing-games-master-list.90458/ (this site doesnt have a pure swinger crowd that i know of, most of them are blended in with sharing crowd).

Anyway, most recent suggestion sounds good, as long as there's some story arc for the wife too- like seeing her husband with all these young tarts makes her want to even the score.

 

[ChaosOpen]

Yeah that sounds decent to me, you've got me interested now.


I can see this being the case, I guess I was trying to say with the polygamy style focus, you wont even get the "swingers crowd", by that I mean all the people I regularly converse with over at https://f95zone.to/threads/complete-netorase-sharing-games-master-list.90458/ (this site doesnt have a pure swinger crowd that i know of, most of them are blended in with sharing crowd).

Anyway, most recent suggestion sounds good, as long as there's some story arc for the wife too- like seeing her husband with all these young tarts makes her want to even the score.

Yeah, it seems like there may be an emotional arc where they initially try to one-up each other to try and make the other one jealous but they eventually admit that they still love each other and actually miss each other.