HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[ffive]

Fair enough, I suppose, but since Crush says he's struggling with making barmaid shifts between more important story beats exciting ("I realised that I was repeating story beats we've already had"), why not just gloss over these barmaid shifts - and write the parts that do advance the heroine's corruption?

I mean yes, this is one way to deal with it. Another would be to introduce new elements to alleviate repetitiveness, like the poster above suggests. And finally, yet another way would be to recognize that "story is not ready for heroine to make jump to bargirl" is entirely arbitrary, and actually making this jump without necessarily dragging out the story with weeks and months of regular bar shifts first... may be for the best -- this is, ultimately, a spy story and these tend to be fast-paced.

Of course, that last approach requires some desire to actually finish the story, as opposed to perpetual development. /s

 

[Blockout]

Barmaid shifts becoming repetitive betrays a lack of imagination. You can have events and special days. If one day of the week is especially slow the girls go fully nude. Body paint jerseys if there is some big sportsball game. Add an interesting group of patrons to cause trouble, sailors on leave or something.

It's also an excuse for Crush.
He'd just have to write let's say 10 small barmaid events that randomly get activated during the week.
Afterwards he can add more as the game progresses.
Obviously give the player options of what to do with them.
Drink with the annoying tourists, go back home with one of them....... whatever.
Just give the player something to do for in between versions.
And with every story release he could add a few small events that fire randomly that the player could have.

Other twine games have that, for some reason some people say this would be impossible in this one.

 

[Leiafanman]

I mean what it should be between those story beats is the game. Make shifts into a repetitive sandbox event in which you interact with the location and its characters. Stuff like Young Maria or those types of games come to mind. I've spent hours in those types of games chasing nothing but a slightly different porn GIF and watching fake numbers increase so I can buy a new shirt or something.

For example after your first linear shift you enter a 'shift hub' where you have to earn x amount of money or y amount of a character's trust to get deeper into the bar's organization which, when those variables are met, will then trigger the next linear story beat. A corruption system could slowly unlock more depraved interactions MC is willing to take with Bar patrons to earn more tips or trust etc.

The fact that there is no economic pull or system in the game and little reason for one since MC is actively able to tap her agency for resources is problematic IMO. Give MC a fixed stipend from the agency and then add more need for money. There's a clothing system, let MC earn money at the bar and use it to buy new clothing. Give the clothing stats that make MC earn more tips. Make MC have to pay rent. Make the local cops or gangsters shake MC down for bribe money or favors outside of the Agency's knowledge.

 

[okokok]

I mean what it should be between those story beats is the game. Make shifts into a repetitive sandbox event in which you interact with the location and its characters. Stuff like Young Maria or those types of games come to mind. I've spent hours in those types of games chasing nothing but a slightly different porn GIF and watching fake numbers increase so I can buy a new shirt or something.

Sounds somewhat like the training scenes from the lifepath. They weren't very good

 

[vicaddict]

He simply doesn't know how to connect his little side missions with the bigger picture down the line, mostly because there is no bigger picture other than becoming a bargirl and eventually devilfish. He can't work towards a goal, if he doesn't know what the goal is or how he can get there.

Quite frankly, if he was smart he would do what some of you already suggested. Treat the barmaid part of the game as some sort of framework. Toss in some random one liners that require a choice and these choices give you a modifiers to your stats. Not that those mean anything anyway, but that is a different story. Then, every couple of months open up a scene along the lines of:

"and after x months of grinding an opportunity presented itself".
Mission A, B, C.

Now give the player a choice between several side missions and focus on the side mission. Once the player has completed said mission, it is back to grinding until another opportunity arises which lets you pick from another list of missions. Could be the same missions that you didn't chose last time, could be different ones. Could be ones that he has written in the meantime.

By doing so you would completely forego the need to connect everything in a linear way and you would give the player some actual agency in how they want to play and in what order. You could simply let them play episodes in a random order at any given time and you could write these episodes in a way that you see fit. Not fancy writing a certain story this month? Okay, lets write a different episode and introduce that into the game. While that wouldn't progress the story, it would certainly add content and add more width, rather than depth, if you know what I mean. Either way, you could always add more missions to this stage of the game without compromising the bigger picture.

Eventually you need to complete a certain amount of episodes or gather information that is only available in some episodes, but not in others and once you have done that, progress the story to the next stage. In the meantime the players can experience a variety of missions in a way that the players chose, not Crush. There is no need for linear writing in this format other than that he needs to add a progression point at some point.

Right now he is completely effed, because he can only go in one direction and he doesn't know how to get there.

 

[CreativeCritic2]

The funny thing about his desire to go back to the lifepath system is that the lifepath system was all about character-building. The idea was that you made choices that shaped your character and so developed a particular set of skills that would (presumably) shape your career as an agent: Were you the academic high-flyer who spoke loads of languages and knew loads about other cultures, or were you the rebellious chick who played in a band and felt at home in clubs?

Fast forward a few years and there's no real skill system anymore so what's the point of having different character builds? I remember the lifepath system allowed you to basically develop a college years body-count that would shame the Israeli army and that kind of character is supposed to slot into a novel where the main character gets freaked out over sucking a dick?

This is just an excuse: 'Sorry guys... no update this month but I've been working really hard on re-tooling the lifepath system. Also I fell down a mine and have cat aids. Please increase patreon. Me sick'

 

[ffive]

I mean what it should be between those story beats is the game. Make shifts into a repetitive sandbox event in which you interact with the location and its characters. Stuff like Young Maria or those types of games come to mind. I've spent hours in those types of games chasing nothing but a slightly different porn GIF and watching fake numbers increase so I can buy a new shirt or something.

I'm happy for you if you enjoy this sort of experience, but it's exactly the kind of dumb grind that makes many people hate the "sandbox porn games" with white-hot passion. Wasting hours for mere crumbs of content is not what they find fun at all.

 

[lexlexx]

I'm happy for you if you enjoy this sort of experience, but it's exactly the kind of dumb grind that makes many people hate the "sandbox porn games" with white-hot passion. Wasting hours for mere crumbs of content is not what they find fun at all.

This "game" already has curmbs of content for one that was in development for nearly 7 years, at least if it had a system like that it would help tie in that so called skills and stat system which should be able to speed up development (like that would ever happen) allowing more content to be made for the "game" :/

 

[ffive]

This "game" already has curmbs of content for one that was in development for nearly 7 years, at least if it had a system like that it would help tie in that so called skills and stat system which should be able to speed up development (like that would ever happen) allowing more content to be made for the "game" :/

There's no skills and stats system to speak of in the game, so there's nothing such addition would help with. You wouldn't speed up development but the opposite: you'd slow it down for the time needed to re-implement the "skill system", then the time needed to implement these grind crumbs, and finally you'd get the game with even more stretched out content crumbs that they are already. It's like, lose-lose-lose scenario. Or, to better drive the point home, like the Summertime Saga "tech update" which was supposed to "speed up development" too, except it's been two years in the making with no progress to actual game in this time.

 

[Mr_Ainz]

How difficult is it to introduce some sort of plot twist tho? Devilfish doesn't need to be the end.

- "Hey you can actually get to the objective earlier than expected"
+ "Finally I can end this"
- "Oh no it turns out we only caught this one chess piece but we can continue and get all of them. You in?"

 

[Senor Smut]

Again though, this isn't about Crush making progress or finishing the game. This is about Crush making excuses not to make progress or finish the game so his cult can keep giving him money for nothing. I strongly believe that at first he genuinely wanted to make a game, but once he discovered the fact that Patreon disincentivizes people from finishing projects, he settled comfortably into the scam rut. He has no desire to leave that rut, and he absolutely will not do so until people stop paying him to not produce. He'd find his motivation PDQ if his monthly receipts dropped by 80%.

 

[Ulyx]

Again though, this isn't about Crush making progress or finishing the game. This is about Crush making excuses not to make progress or finish the game so his cult can keep giving him money for nothing. I strongly believe that at first he genuinely wanted to make a game, but once he discovered the fact that Patreon disincentivizes people from finishing projects, he settled comfortably into the scam rut. He has no desire to leave that rut, and he absolutely will not do so until people stop paying him to not produce. He'd find his motivation PDQ if his monthly receipts dropped by 80%.

Exactly!!!

 

[Blockout]

How difficult is it to introduce some sort of plot twist tho? Devilfish doesn't need to be the end.

- "Hey you can actually get to the objective earlier than expected"
+ "Finally I can end this"
- "Oh no it turns out we only caught this one chess piece but we can continue and get all of them. You in?"

If you've seen a single James Bond film you are obviously already far more qualified than Crush.

I'm happy for you if you enjoy this sort of experience, but it's exactly the kind of dumb grind that makes many people hate the "sandbox porn games" with white-hot passion. Wasting hours for mere crumbs of content is not what they find fun at all.

Wait what.

You dislike erotic events that fire between the week while the MC might do spy stuff on one night?

 

[ffive]

Wait what.

You dislike erotic events that fire between the week while the MC might do spy stuff on one night?

That wasn't about my tastes specifically. But even though i do play sandboxes, no, i don't think much of having to click through week(s) of repetitive snippets between actual plot parts. Does it genuinely sound like actual fun to you? Like, did you think the mad libs in the early build of this game, the ones where you'd get to hit on random people in the club or whatever it was, they were actually erotic? Would you still think the same after reading them for the 30-50th time, while waiting for your MC to maybe again do spy stuff on one night? Or would you just mechanically click through them at that point?

(and they do have to repeat, otherwise this is no different work from what Crush is doing already, which is writing one-off barmaid shifts)

Also, i was responding specifically to idea of "a repetitive sandbox event in which you interact with the location and its characters. (Spending hours for) nothing but a slightly different porn GIF and watching fake numbers increase so I can buy a new shirt or something."

 

[Leiafanman]

Well again, that's what makes it a game instead of a linear novel. You can't do much more with Twine anyway. I like Crush's writing, but he's been struggling with the game part of it and having a tiered grind is one way to do that...I mean didn't most of us start our western H game journey with crap like Princess Trainer?

Not to say it's good, but it's something to wile the hours away and immerse in the world more.

 

[Ripe]

That wasn't about my tastes specifically. But even though i do play sandboxes, no, i don't think much of having to click through week(s) of repetitive snippets between actual plot parts. Does it genuinely sound like actual fun to you? Like, did you think the mad libs in the early build of this game, the ones where you'd get to hit on random people in the club or whatever it was, they were actually erotic? Would you still think the same after reading them for the 30-50th time, while waiting for your MC to maybe again do spy stuff on one night? Or would you just mechanically click through them at that point?

(and they do have to repeat, otherwise this is no different work from what Crush is doing already, which is writing one-off barmaid shifts)

Also, i was responding specifically to idea of "a repetitive sandbox event in which you interact with the location and its characters. (Spending hours for) nothing but a slightly different porn GIF and watching fake numbers increase so I can buy a new shirt or something."

Some grind is unavoidable if you're going to have a game... if you're going to have a linear novel (visual or kinetic) then that is another thing, but in that case you don't really need Lifepath and whole lot of other stuff Crush wasted months (if not years) so far. And you certainly don't need multiple months between updates for an almost completely text-based novel because there will be no gameplay, no meaningfull choices, no branching paths and just a single ending.

The skills and stats from original Lifepath worked fine and were decent idea, but Crush had no idea what to do with it because he designed it without having any idea what his "game" is supposed to be and how that "game" will use those stats and skills. And he still have no idea what to do with them so reintroducing it now is rather pointless and serve nothing other then yet another excuse for not moving the plot forward (which is something else Crush have no idea how to do).

 

[robin312]

And you certainly don't need multiple months between updates for an almost completely text-based novel because there will be no gameplay, no meaningfull choices, no branching paths and just a single ending.

I think it's obvious that FA is dead. Crush is trying to simulate some activity to justify funding and to keep hope that something will be miraculously changed in the future and all his promises will be implemented

There are no miracles in our world. Crush doesn't want to change anything in his work process, because it means introducing new people into development process and then, as a result, uncovering what he is basically do nothing

I know, this is extremely sad, but life is life

face it

 

[ffive]

Some grind is unavoidable if you're going to have a game... if you're going to have a linear novel (visual or kinetic) then that is another thing, but in that case you don't really need Lifepath and whole lot of other stuff Crush wasted months (if not years) so far.

Well, you definitely don't need the lifepath to have a game about female spy, this is true. That said, grind and linearity are not related -- you can have non-linear VN without grind and a lot of them are exactly that. So the idea the grind is unavoidable if you want a non-linear game is simply false.

(you can also have a linear RPG with shitload of unnecessary grind and there's plenty of them, too, but that's another story)

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

I think it's obvious that FA is dead. Crush is trying to simulate some activity to justify funding and to keep hope that something will be miraculously changed in the future and all his promises will be implemented

There are no miracles in our world. Crush doesn't want to change anything in his work process, because it means introducing new people into development process and then, as a result, uncovering what he is basically do nothing

I know, this is extremely sad, but life is life

face it

Don't worry, he and his defenders will come out and say "That's such a silly thing, how could it be dead, now that it's getting exciting and there are so many things to explore?"

The reality is, this project is almost 7 years old, and even for a creator, it's genuinely hard to keep interest for that long, especially when you yourself don't see that much progress.

 

[Ripe]

Well, you definitely don't need the lifepath to have a game about female spy, this is true. That said, grind and linearity are not related -- you can have non-linear VN without grind and a lot of them are exactly that. So the idea the grind is unavoidable if you want a non-linear game is simply false.

(you can also have a linear RPG with shitload of unnecessary grind and there's plenty of them, too, but that's another story)

VN's are not games... they are, as their name clearly state novels. Whether they are completely linear or even non-linear doesn't matter. And those RPG's you mention are not actual games... they are VN's masquerading as RPG's (especially ones made in RPGM who are nothing but walking simulators).

Do you need Lifepath and skills and stats to have a game about female spy? Yes, you do. You don't need it for VN about female spy where everything is scripted and "player" imput doesn't matter.