Ren'Py Echoes: Cards of Destiny [v0.2.5] [Deviant Dreams]

[DeviantDreamsGames]

I wasn't trying to apply fool-proof logic to the game. Generally, I allow porn games a lot of leeway when it comes to logic. I went to such lengths because I made my first post about what I did not like about the game and the developer responded by saying my opinions were invalid because the game already explained away my concerns. For example, trying to say the "whore house" wasn't really a whore house based on Isla's explanation. You and I and everyone else knows it's a whore house. DeviantDreamsGames knows it's a whore house. Even Isla knows it's a whore house. The point of my second post was to push back on DDG's attempt to invalidate my perceptions of the game.

You are right though in saying that these were only my opinions. I believe that I went out of my way to say that I was not suggesting any changes, I was not asking for any changes and that I did not speak for anyone other than myself. I even pointed out that so far, this game has been very successful.

I don't want to spend much time on this debacle. I mean you have your vision and even though, the guy who is making the game/story tells you that one thing is red and you insist it's blue, I can't really change your mind. But if you analyse one thing you just said, as an example.

"She tells him about the girls available. He goes to the bedroom of the girl he chooses. He plays cards. If he wins, he has the option to have sex. What is the motivation to pay money to play cards if sex is not on the table? The outcome is uncertain. For the same or less money anyone can buy cards at the card shop."

You answered it here basically. If you were going to a whore house and paid for sex, why would you had the option to refuse(that you have). And if you lose, the girl just says good game, see you next time. Why would you pay if sex is not on the table? Well, why do people in japan pay for maids in maid cafes to play games with them? You are paying for their time, and in that time you can play them, it's pretty much it.

In the end, you have your rationale and I won't be able to change it. And that's fine. If you don't like the setting, I'm not forcing you to play it.

 

[ptahn]

I don't want to spend much time on this debacle. I mean you have your vision and even though, the guy who is making the game/story tells you that one thing is red and you insist it's blue, I can't really change your mind. But if you analyse one thing you just said, as an example.

"She tells him about the girls available. He goes to the bedroom of the girl he chooses. He plays cards. If he wins, he has the option to have sex. What is the motivation to pay money to play cards if sex is not on the table? The outcome is uncertain. For the same or less money anyone can buy cards at the card shop."

You answered it here basically. If you were going to a whore house and paid for sex, why would you had the option to refuse(that you have). And if you lose, the girl just says good game, see you next time. Why would you pay if sex is not on the table? Well, why do people in japan pay for maids in maid cafes to play games with them? You are paying for their time, and in that time you can play them, it's pretty much it.

In the end, you have your rationale and I won't be able to change it. And that's fine. If you don't like the setting, I'm not forcing you to play it.

The only other way to look at it is that it is a gambling house where the prize is sex. Again, Ilsa says, "The winner takes all, and the loser is at the mercy of the victor's desires." All of her other dialogue is equally suggestive.

Of course, if you went to a whore house in real life and paid your money, you could change your mind.

You don't pay maids at a maid cafe what amounts to half a day's pay or more to go to her bedroom to play a five minute card game and then leave.

A developer once told me that forcing a woman to have sex by threatening to harm her child was not rape, this scenario was in his game. He also said that if you put a gun to a woman's head and threatened to kill her if she did not have sex with you that was not rape either because in both of cases the woman had a choice. She could have allowed her child to be harmed, she could have allowed herself to be killed. Rape only occurred when the woman had no choice. My point, there have been times when the guy making the game/story has told me that one thing is red and I insisted it was blue.

I just don't like when the LI's are part of the sex industry; prostitutes, porn stars, cam girls, strippers, etc. What I don't get is why you're so upset about this. You called it the Courtesan House. Courtesan means prostitute. All of Ilsa dialogue makes the case that they are prostitutes. Your game is financially successful. No one other than me seems to care that some of the LI's are prostitutes. The are other games LI's that are prostitutes. It's just one person's opinion.

 

[DeviantDreamsGames]

You don't pay maids at a maid cafe what amounts to half a day's pay or more to go to her bedroom to play a five minute card game and then leave.

Lmao, I can't believe this discussion is real.
It's a game, the mc does not work a daily job, how do you know what is his day's pay? What is going on lmao.

This is reaching a level of insanity and I'm not understanding why you are insisting on this. You don't like the premiss, don't play the game dude. It's simple.

 

[Yevaud6]

The only other way to look at it is that it is a gambling house where the prize is sex. Again, Ilsa says, "The winner takes all, and the loser is at the mercy of the victor's desires." All of her other dialogue is equally suggestive.

Of course, if you went to a whore house in real life and paid your money, you could change your mind.

You don't pay maids at a maid cafe what amounts to half a day's pay or more to go to her bedroom to play a five minute card game and then leave.

A developer once told me that forcing a woman to have sex by threatening to harm her child was not rape, this scenario was in his game. He also said that if you put a gun to a woman's head and threatened to kill her if she did not have sex with you that was not rape either because in both of cases the woman had a choice. She could have allowed her child to be harmed, she could have allowed herself to be killed. Rape only occurred when the woman had no choice. My point, there have been times when the guy making the game/story has told me that one thing is red and I insisted it was blue.

That last paragraph is definitely messed up, that dev needs a reality check and I'm thankful nothing like that will ever be in this game.

Speaking to what this dev was talking about in their previous post. There were definitely brothels throughout history where you would just pay to spend time with the Geisha or escort. 100's of thousands of money to just have a tea and a conversation or an afternoon of playing Shogi or Go (chess/Othello). It was up to the girl if it turned into sex. Modern day, examples of this are in high society where you will see people renting out escorts to take to events, just to have a beutiful +1. Doesn't always end in sex. Recently you can see a good example/explaination of these job practices in the anime "Apothicary Diaries" a historical drama which draws inspiration from feudal China.

With this game's brothel having a mistress, it can easily be running itself in a similar fashion. Heck, if you opt out of the blue elf content, the lowest price girl has the choice to offer her services for free. Haven't tested if that fully locks out the elf, I'm guessing she's still unlocked after you get to the castle. Seeing as the game ends there, I haven't played through a second time just to check a split in the first quest. I was fine with paying 25 a night.

Given the previous post (that I just saw after finishing this). I'll let this topic end here, for me. I hope it helped you .

Sidenote: love your Blade quote tagged to the end of your posts. Makes me laugh every time.

 

[ptahn]

Lmao, I can't believe this discussion is real.
It's a game, the mc does not work a daily job, how do you know what is his day's pay? What is going on lmao.

This is reaching a level of insanity and I'm not understanding why you are insisting on this. You don't like the premiss, don't play the game dude. It's simple.

I amended my previous message while you were responding. I based his pay on the jobs he performs. If he works all day on the farm, he gets 40 pieces of gold. As I said, there are things I like about your game and things I don't. It's a discussion thread, we are having a discussion that's all.

 

[ptahn]

That last paragraph is definitely messed up, that dev needs a reality check and I'm thankful nothing like that will ever be in this game.

Speaking to what this dev was talking about in their previous post. There were definitely brothels throughout history where you would just pay to spend time with the Geisha or escort. 100's of thousands of money to just have a tea and a conversation or an afternoon of playing Shogi or Go (chess/Othello). It was up to the girl if it turned into sex. Modern day, examples of this are in high society where you will see people renting out escorts to take to events, just to have a beutiful +1. Doesn't always end in sex. Recently you can see a good example/explaination of these job practices in the anime "Apothicary Diaries" a historical drama which draws inspiration from feudal China.

With this game's brothel having a mistress, it can easily be running itself in a similar fashion. Heck, if you opt out of the blue elf content, the lowest price girl has the choice to offer her services for free. Haven't tested if that fully locks out the elf, I'm guessing she's still unlocked after you get to the castle. Seeing as the game ends there, I haven't played through a second time just to check a split in the first quest. I was fine with paying 25 a night.

Given the previous post (that I just saw after finishing this). I'll let this topic end here, for me. I hope it helped you .

Months later that developer contacted me and told me he took that scene out even though he never admitted that it was rape.

Reread Isla's initial dialogue and then tell be that she's not talking about the girls having sex with the winner of the card game.

 

[ptahn]

That last paragraph is definitely messed up, that dev needs a reality check and I'm thankful nothing like that will ever be in this game.

Speaking to what this dev was talking about in their previous post. There were definitely brothels throughout history where you would just pay to spend time with the Geisha or escort. 100's of thousands of money to just have a tea and a conversation or an afternoon of playing Shogi or Go (chess/Othello). It was up to the girl if it turned into sex. Modern day, examples of this are in high society where you will see people renting out escorts to take to events, just to have a beutiful +1. Doesn't always end in sex. Recently you can see a good example/explaination of these job practices in the anime "Apothicary Diaries" a historical drama which draws inspiration from feudal China.

With this game's brothel having a mistress, it can easily be running itself in a similar fashion. Heck, if you opt out of the blue elf content, the lowest price girl has the choice to offer her services for free. Haven't tested if that fully locks out the elf, I'm guessing she's still unlocked after you get to the castle. Seeing as the game ends there, I haven't played through a second time just to check a split in the first quest. I was fine with paying 25 a night.

Given the previous post (that I just saw after finishing this). I'll let this topic end here, for me. I hope it helped you .

Sidenote: love your Blade quote tagged to the end of your posts. Makes me laugh every time.

I appreciate you trying to help me, but I am in no distress. I even played the game until the end of the "free" update.

As far as trying to explain how the Courtesans might not be prostitutes, I would again ask how you explain the line, "The victor takes all, and the loser is at the mercy of the victor's desires." Sometimes blue is blue, even when the developer tells you it's red.

As for the quote in my signature, it refers to developers who add content to their game that insures that it will never make money. I first used it when a posters asked the question, "Why would a developer do this?" It was in the discussion thread of an incest game where mom had a series of one night stands after divorcing dad. The developer had the sense not to show the sex scenes, but did show mom getting picked up and the look of shame on her face the next morning. It was not a game that I played, I just read the comments. Some of the commenters posted the renders that I mentioned. I understand that he changed the story, but then a whole big thing started over unavoidable lesbian content. I don't know how it all ended or if the story is still in production.

 

[Yevaud6]

DeviantDreamsGames Is the public release of 2.6 May 21st?

 

[DeviantDreamsGames]

Speaking to what this dev was talking about in their previous post. There were definitely brothels throughout history where you would just pay to spend time with the Geisha or escort. 100's of thousands of money to just have a tea and a conversation or an afternoon of playing Shogi or Go (chess/Othello). It was up to the girl if it turned into sex. Modern day, examples of this are in high society where you will see people renting out escorts to take to events, just to have a beutiful +1. Doesn't always end in sex. Recently you can see a good example/explaination of these job practices in the anime "Apothicary Diaries" a historical drama which draws inspiration from feudal China.

DeviantDreamsGames Is the public release of 2.6 May 21st?

Still don't have a date for it, it should be when 0.2.7 is out, I will post a date here next week