- Sep 13, 2016
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You use HS renders... Nothing wrong with that, just don't try and claim that you prefer to pay for everything you use...That's why I pay extra for whatever I commission if I'm happy with the work.
You use HS renders... Nothing wrong with that, just don't try and claim that you prefer to pay for everything you use...That's why I pay extra for whatever I commission if I'm happy with the work.
Well, it was your own words right? You willing to support those that does it for free. How would that cost you anything to supoort if they do it for free?I'm not sure if you are being serious or not...
Patreon is a creator support tool, not a product sale tool. Many creators of free and open source projects are supported through patreon.
I pay for a lot of things. My game cost me over 5k $+ to make. A couple thousand for assets, 500$+ for music (and got banned from audiojungle because of 15$ audio scam they sell dispute on their site ) a couple of K for some 3D work, etc. That's not counting expenses on hardware and commissions.You use HS renders (nothing wrong with that) just don't try and claim that you prefer to pay for everything you use...
Still sounds like you are just paying for that you "need" instead of paying for what you feel like deserves to be paid.I pay for a lot of things. My game cost me over 5k $+ to make.
Uh where does that make any sense what so ever?Still sounds like you are just paying for that you "need" instead of paying for what you feel like deserves to be paid.
Because he bought a few modded assets he needed but is still using HS for the rest, which is not only illegal to monetize but also virtually free?Uh where does that make any sense what so ever?
By your logic, renpytom does not deserve any income because he did not invent python, same goes for blender guys, lovelabs modders etc.Because he bought a few modded assets he needed but is still using HS for the rest, which is not only illegal to monetize but also virtually free?
Again I'm not complaining, I actually prefer HS/KK over other solutions visually, just don't try and claim that you aren't being heavily assisted by "free tools".
And it is those free tools and cheap alternatives that are carrying most amauter devs around, without them none of those games would even see the light of day.
That's the thing, it is easier to start something therefore is also easier to abandon something, simple as that.
If he spent 5000 USD on create his game so far. I'm quite sure he done more than just bought a few models. Creators need funding somehow to invest into their creations. They can't just pull money out of their own ass to cover your need to fap. So not only do you expect them to regard their time as free holding no value, you expect them to fund the game out of their own pocket to give you for free as well?Because he bought a few modded assets he needed but is still using HS for the rest, which is not only illegal to monetize but also virtually free?
Again I'm not complaining, I actually prefer HS/KK over other solutions visually, just don't try and claim that you aren't being heavily assisted by "free tools".
And it is those free tools and cheap alternatives that are carrying most amauter devs around, without them none of those games would even see the light of day.
That's the thing, it is easier to start something therefore it is also easier to abandon something, simple as that.
Not sure why you feel like I expect anything, I'm just explaining why it happens so often with the patreon model, which was OP question.So not only do you expect them to regard their time as free holding no value, you expect them to fund the game out of their own pocket to give you for free as well?
If he spent 5000 USD on create his game so far. I'm quite sure he done more than just bought a few models.
It happens with everything. Start-up businesses have an even worse failing ratio with 9 out of 10 businesses closing in a few first years.Not sure why you feel like I expect anything, I'm just explaining why it happens so often with the patreon model
Except no one made such claims. Many starts with an idea they want to make (like I did with the idea that making games and learning Is fun, and earning a couple $ would be cool for something I find fun to do), they see how much work it is (it's a real job), and they exhaust themselves, especially when it gathers 0 attention with very few feedback. The player base is a huge motivation. If you spend 100 hours on an update and see only 5 comments for it, it hurts something inside. Then a wife starts complaining that their kids need new shoes asking them to stop sweating his ass on the chair, and urges him to find a real job. Or no sex."If I don't get paid enough I will drop it"
Making a game is not a business, you are free to decide how big or small your game is going to be, if you planned something you can't deliver unless you get paid more it means you put yourself to failure.It happens with everything. Start-up businesses have an even worse failing ratio with 9 out of 10 businesses closing in a few first years.
What about making a small game first? showing what you can do, the only thing you are giving evidence of is that poor planning is a thing, noone is denying that.I'd say it's more the issue with determination. Everyone can make a quick idea and exhaust it. Only a few have enough discipline to stick with it for years and finish when they realise how much work making games is. It's not just fun&games. A lot of it is boring and routinish work and many devs fall because of that.
It is implied by many.Except no one made such claims. Many starts with an idea they want to make, they see how much work it is (it's a real job), and they exhaust themselves, especially when it gathers 0 attention with very few feedback.
Teach me more, sensei.Making a game is not a business, you are free to decide how big or small your game is going to be, if you planned something you can't deliver unless you get paid more it means you put yourself to failure.
What about making a small game first? showing what you can do, the only thing you are giving evidence of is that poor planning is a thing, noone is denying that.
It is implied by many.
Some barely started and show signs that they are expecting a lot more money, not a good sign.
Others are clear amauters but promising something that would take them 10+ years in their current pacing, poor planning.
Others have no goal and it shows in the randomness of their project, if they have no goal aside from making money it means the project will either never end or end somewhere random.
Others are trying way to hard to please their current patreons instead of focusing on their project, wasting hours that could be put into the game itself.
And more. There are quite a few signs to notice which devs have an idea of what they are doing and know they can deliver something vs. the ones trying to just sell you a dream itself that has very little chances of turning into reality.
Start small, deliver something you enjoy, improve and move to the next project.
You know. I've been disagreeing with a lot of what you said so far. But this? I really agree with this post.Making a game is not a business, you are free to decide how big or small your game is going to be, if you planned something you can't deliver unless you get paid more it means you put yourself to failure.
What about making a small game first? showing what you can do, the only thing you are giving evidence of is that poor planning is a thing, noone is denying that.
It is implied by many.
Some barely started and show signs that they are expecting a lot more money, not a good sign.
Others are clear amauters but promising something that would take them 10+ years in their current pacing, poor planning.
Others have no goal and it shows in the randomness of their project, if they have no goal aside from making money it means the project will either never end or end somewhere random.
Others are trying way to hard to please their current patreons instead of focusing on their project, wasting hours that could be put into the game itself.
And more. There are quite a few signs to notice which devs have an idea of what they are doing and know they can deliver something vs. the ones trying to just sell you a dream itself that has very little chances of turning into reality.
Start small, deliver something you enjoy, improve and move to the next project.
It happens, but at the same time highly successful games, like Summer Time Saga and What a Legend were the most ambitious and also the first games of those devs. This has to do with wasting time "practicing" vs putting all of your life into one fantastic game.Teach me more, sensei.
But I agree on over-ambitious failures.
And do you truly think things like summer time saga were made by complete amauters? High quality hand drawn art and interactive gameplay from the getgo?It happens, but at the same time highly successful games, like Summer Time Saga and What a Legend were the most ambitious and also the first games of those devs.
Are you sure it was all bad? Or maybe those were necessary steps to improve and continue learning, maybe if you had stuck to a single boring project you would have burned out by now.Hopefully another up and coming dev reads this and can avoid a good portion of their lives lost on small projects.
I don't know for sure. It's a theory. I have heard that Summertime Saga's art has been redone, and it didn't start out looking that good. According to the comments the initial release had "3 minutes of gameplay or less". But I've never seen or played the original release, so I'll admit this is speculation. I can't find any earlier games from that creator, and F95 doesn't allow games to be deleted even if they are abandoned. But on the other hand, people did praise the art on the initial release so this may have been an artist with plenty of experience from the get go.And do you truly think things like summer time saga were made by complete amauters? High quality hand drawn art and interactive gameplay from the getgo?
That is a good point. I could see myself burning out and getting bored. And some of my attempts were so catastrophically in the wrong direction and unsalavagle that if I redid every aspect of the game, art/graphics/sound/gameplay/core concept, it wouldn't be the same game at all anymore.Are you sure it was all bad? Or maybe those were necessary steps to improve and continue learning, maybe if you had stuck to a single boring project you would have burned out by now.
Certainly that is true.You are not considering all the valuable things you learned in the process, and what you can create by continuing in this path.
I've heard it said that Dark Cookie was a professional backgrounds artist before starting work on SS. Dunno if it's true or just an urban myth, but it would explain how he was able to paint relatively high-quality art from the beginning. 2D is incredibly difficult and time-consuming to get right. People underestimate the amount of time, effort, and skill that's required for even mediocre 2D art.And do you truly think things like summer time saga were made by complete amauters?
Learning is independent of working on one or several games. You learn from experience, regardless of form. The learning steps I've taken over the last year have all been within my game, I imagine other devs who have big scoped projects learn the same way.Are you sure it was all bad? Or maybe those were necessary steps to improve and continue learning, maybe if you had stuck to a single boring project you would have burned out by now.
You are not considering all the valuable things you learned in the process, and what you can create by continuing in this path.
Many japanese indy game developers worked for years doing standalone artwork and comics way before even tackling their first game, some just do it under different names or purely as a hobby.I've heard it said that Dark Cookie was a professional backgrounds artist before starting work on SS. Dunno if it's true or just an urban myth, but it would explain how he was able to paint relatively high-quality art from the beginning. 2D is incredibly difficult and time-consuming to get right. People underestimate the amount of time, effort, and skill that's required for even mediocre 2D art.
You can hit nails all day long and you will be pretty good at doing that but you won't learn new things.Learning is independent of working on one or several games. You learn from experience, regardless of form. The learning steps I've taken over the last year have all been within my game, I imagine other devs who have big scoped projects learn the same way.
Exactly, that was my point, anyone doing something purely for commercial reasons will burn out.A single boring project? If you're passionate about what you do, it's never boring. Unless you are doing something purely commercial, something you don't like, then it will burn you out.