Daz daz3d gen8 or gen 9 on a low pc? and any starter content tips?

[felldude]

Separate eyes and mouth make customizing model difficult. It is harder to fix center and joints of conformed figure. I think it was intentional - you rather buy new model then create your own.

Possibly but I was able to make a

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with scaled eyes project figure to shape corrects a lot.

I agree that Daz does sometimes does some things that take advantage of entry level users but a lot of that is from their approved vendors selling morphs I could do in Blender in minutes.

Most of offical Daz stuff is quality such as Victoria

What does mean default SubD?

It means I didn't set it to base level manually for the test (As many people would do for multiple figures in a scene) so the model would be in the hundreds of megabytes rather then the 4-6MB of base.

All the textures for G9 are in JPG at 97% compression by default if I recall. (About 150MB worth)
Even the transparency maps for the eyelashes are .jpg rather then .png (At 4k)
The Normal map for G9 is 8k if you use the Skin Details version and not the default one. That is 42MB in JPG
(10X Larger then the 4k version but most people don't use it or even know about it)

 

[drapak12]

Possibly but I was able to make a

You must be registered to see the links

with scaled eyes project figure to shape corrects a lot.

I agree that Daz does sometimes does some things that take advantage of entry level users but a lot of that is from their approved vendors selling morphs I could do in Blender in minutes.

Most of offical Daz stuff is quality such as Victoria



It means I didn't set it to base level manually for the test (As many people would do for multiple figures in a scene) so the model would be in the hundreds of megabytes rather then the 4-6MB of base.

All the textures for G9 are in JPG at 97% compression by default if I recall. (About 150MB worth)
Even the transparency maps for the eyelashes are .jpg rather then .png (At 4k)
The Normal map for G9 is 8k if you use the Skin Details version and not the default one. That is 42MB in JPG
(10X Larger then the 4k version but most people don't use it or even know about it)

I did not write clear, sorry. I changed many default setting and my def G8 subD is 1/2 (preview/render). I asked if G9 with subD=2 is little bit bigger then G8 subD=2

Ref to creating/customize figures - morph transfer between all G3, G8 takes few minutes. Fixing imperfection and sometimes joints next few minutes. Usually I was able to create custom model within less then 10 mins. It does not work with G9 even with clones. Weightmaped divisions of morph areas do not work for conforming figures. I agree that it is possible, but much harder. Toon with eye scale is harder, but not most important is joint center. You must adjust bones of main and conformed figure. I had similar impression (few minutes in blender) but when I tried to "look left/right" eyes were outside eyehole.

Textures size/compression is another problem. I used 8K only for NGV8 overlay map. I think that if you are not going to see your render on 40" TV screen 4K is sufficient. All Daz G8 (Victoria, Alexandra etc) had normal maps uncompressed tiff about 48M each. Compressing reduced size to 6M each. Anyway texture size is not G9 problem - if you find them too big just resize. 4K texture is less detailed then 8K on both G8 and G9.
Micro-details can be apllied on both as well. You can use it on G8 and G9 or even primitive prop. It depends of Daz version not figure.
I think that people has better CPU and do not care about texture size. I noticed png textures in some late G8. Maybe it is not common and I just had bad luck checking models with png but I'm sure that texture size growing every year.

 

[felldude]

I did not write clear, sorry. I changed many default setting and my def G8 subD is 1/2 (preview/render). I asked if G9 with subD=2 is little bit bigger then G8 subD=2

Ref to creating/customize figures - morph transfer between all G3, G8 takes few minutes. Fixing imperfection and sometimes joints next few minutes. Usually I was able to create custom model within less then 10 mins. It does not work with G9 even with clones. Weightmaped divisions of morph areas do not work for conforming figures. I agree that it is possible, but much harder. Toon with eye scale is harder, but not most important is joint center. You must adjust bones of main and conformed figure. I had similar impression (few minutes in blender) but when I tried to "look left/right" eyes were outside eyehole.

If you adjust rigging to shape most issues will go away, it usually solves problems with projection morphs such as correctives as well.

As to texture size unless your doing a close up shot I would size the textures to the render size or sometimes even half.
Using 4k textures on a 1024x1024 would only be needed for extreme close ups or using a displacement map at sub-d level 3 I have used 8k

 

[drapak12]

If you adjust rigging to shape most issues will go away, it usually solves problems with projection morphs such as correctives as well.

Exactly - you must do it with 90% of G9 morphs and 10% of G8. On your sample eye does not fit to eyehole, if you adjust "look right" probably you will need adjust "look left". It can be done as well setting "eye position" as erc, anyway it is hard and time consuming.

 

[felldude]

Exactly - you must do it with 90% of G9 morphs and 10% of G8. On your sample eye does not fit to eyehole, if you adjust "look right" probably you will need adjust "look left". It can be done as well setting "eye position" as erc, anyway it is hard and time consuming.

If I where doing a model too sell I would add the eyes into the face morphing and export the eye morph only as a separate morph that is attached to the face in Daz3d as a hidden corrective that applied with the face morph. It would be a few extra steps

As a free morph I am not worried about.

But we seem to be trailing off subject and hijacking a thread

 

[no_more_name]

Separate eyes and mouth make customizing model difficult. It is harder to fix center and joints of conformed figure. I think it was intentional - you rather buy new model then create your own.

I don't think it's ill intentioned (more likely requested by artists). Both have their up/down sides depending what you're looking for. That said if you make your own texture you will have to explode eyes and mouth, making the whole baking process braindead.

 

[Turning Tricks]

I was curious about the differences in rendering time myself. So I did a bit of experimenting just now.

From my own subjective experience, I never saw too much difference between G8's and G9's in rendering times, when I was working with my old GPU and doing mostly CPU rendering. Of course, some of the G9 assets coming out are just packed with bloated textures, like MissFortune already mentioned. But my "gut" feeling was that, when all else was equal, the rendering times were similar.

I have my new card now so I tried to duplicate two scenes as closely as possible, using 3 G8's in one, and 3 G9's in the other. Both are a male, with two females. I left the male naked, because it's damn hard to find good clothes for male characters -AND- that are available in both G8 and G9 configurations. The female models are wearing the

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since it uses the same 4K textures for both versions, differing only in morphs. All the characters are using the same male hair called

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.

For skin materials, I used only DAZ Studio base materials (G8 Male base and the Male, Female 1 and Female 2 Base Mats for the G9's) I set Sub-D at 3, because G9 defaults to that and the resolution at 1080p (most common game resolution still). For morphs, I kept the G8 ones stock and since G9 is androgynous, I applied Bain's Body and head (it's not considered HD) and then for the female morphs, I used Van Helsing on one (non HD) and JS Jenny on the other (HD version). And just because it hurts me to see a male toon sexless, I put default dicktator gens on both males.

For lighting, I used

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to keep it simple and consistent between the two scenes.

I then applied the same poses and basic positions to both scenes.

This way, the difference between the rendering times should be almost exclusively caused by the difference in the models themselves, and not some outside influence such as lighting or environment textures.

My results? See below, but basically, I rendered the G8's in 2:24 mins, while the G9's did it in 2:22 mins. So my gut feeling was right.

Like I said above... lighting seems to me to be the biggest influence on rendering times (makes sense, because DAZ has to calculate all those rays and interactions) ... and outside textures (cloths and environments) are the second biggest influence.

(PS.. don't judge me on these renders... very quick and very ghetto! Lol)

 

[felldude]

I was curious about the differences in rendering time myself. So I did a bit of experimenting just now.

From my own subjective experience, I never saw too much difference between G8's and G9's in rendering times, when I was working with my old GPU and doing mostly CPU rendering. Of course, some of the G9 assets coming out are just packed with bloated textures, like MissFortune already mentioned. But my "gut" feeling was that, when all else was equal, the rendering times were similar.

I have my new card now so I tried to duplicate two scenes as closely as possible, using 3 G8's in one, and 3 G9's in the other. Both are a male, with two females. I left the male naked, because it's damn hard to find good clothes for male characters -AND- that are available in both G8 and G9 configurations. The female models are wearing the

You must be registered to see the links

since it uses the same 4K textures for both versions, differing only in morphs. All the characters are using the same male hair called

You must be registered to see the links

.

For skin materials, I used only DAZ Studio base materials (G8 Male base and the Male, Female 1 and Female 2 Base Mats for the G9's) I set Sub-D at 3, because G9 defaults to that and the resolution at 1080p (most common game resolution still). For morphs, I kept the G8 ones stock and since G9 is androgynous, I applied Bain's Body and head (it's not considered HD) and then for the female morphs, I used Van Helsing on one (non HD) and JS Jenny on the other (HD version). And just because it hurts me to see a male toon sexless, I put default dicktator gens on both males.

For lighting, I used

You must be registered to see the links

to keep it simple and consistent between the two scenes.

I then applied the same poses and basic positions to both scenes.

This way, the difference between the rendering times should be almost exclusively caused by the difference in the models themselves, and not some outside influence such as lighting or environment textures.

My results? See below, but basically, I rendered the G8's in 2:24 mins, while the G9's did it in 2:22 mins. So my gut feeling was right.

Like I said above... lighting seems to me to be the biggest influence on rendering times (makes sense, because DAZ has to calculate all those rays and interactions) ... and outside textures (cloths and environments) are the second biggest influence.

(PS.. don't judge me on these renders... very quick and very ghetto! Lol)

View attachment 3541309

View attachment 3541311

I had a similar reaction, skeptical that the difference of a few MB in model file size would make a large difference (Even with the Sub-D exponent factor)

Amazement when G8 was double the IT of G9
But then Seeing that my ram Usage was very close to being full with G8

As Tricks mentioned G9 is at Sub-D 3 for render value by default
G8 is at Sub-D 2 by default

That is around a 200MB difference per character (Because of the Sub-D difference)

If you set them to Sub-2
G8 comes in at 45MB
G9 comes in at 76MB (250MB at SubD-3)

With 5 characters in a scene if you left G9 at default compared to G8 that would be 1GB of VRAM use MORE then G8.
But at Sub-D 2 it is only 155MB more

SUB-D level 3 by default is the likely cause of the G8 is faster then G9
With multiple characters the difference turns into GIGABYTES of VRAM use.

 

[Turning Tricks]

Just a correction... my 4060 has 16GB, not 12, as I mistakenly put in the pics above. Doesn't matter though, as neither scene came close to using even 12, let alone 16.

Another oddity that I haven't figured out yet, is the DUF file size for the G8's at sub-D 3, is 48.5 MB, while the DUF file size for the G9 scene is only 419 KB! That's just weird.

But then again, try using the Iray Server sometime. It turns each job into these massive "Snapshots" that are like 10GB each.. for just a couple of characters. That's why running an Iray Server remotely requires you to have a massive pipe to it, otherwise you'll be spending way more time uploading snapshots, then actually rendering.

In any case, I disagree about the common held perception that G9's are more of resource hog than G8's. Especially the often-claimed "double the size" trope I keep reading on here and other forums.

In the thousands of renders I have done, using both generations, my experience has been that G9 renders about the same as G8, with all else being equal. I think the reason some people like believing that G9's are to blame for "bloat" and slower render speeds, is because there's a lot of assets coming out at the same time as G9 characters, that are just nuts with the amount of 4 + 8K textures they have. I mean, that picture frame that is on a wall that you will most likely have blurred for the DoF does not need to have 8K textures! It's not virtual art on a 55" screen in your living room, lol.

Regardless, I have absolutely no desire to learn the guts of DAZ's files or how the Meta data works. I'm just interested in whatever improves my production and allows me the most time to work on my stories.

 

[felldude]

Another oddity that I haven't figured out yet, is the DUF file size for the G8's at sub-D 3, is 48.5 MB, while the DUF file size for the G9 scene is only 419 KB! That's just weird.

The DUF files increase in size the more morph targets you have, Sub-D level does not effect them.
(That is why you can share DUF files without breaking the TOS, as they just "describe" the scene and contain no assets)

The DSF files for G8F (3.5MB) and G9 (5.7MB) increase in size by an exponent when you use sub-d.

Your render target size also greatly effects VRAM usage so rendering a 1080 vs 4k or 8k is going to be an exponent of an exponent...and multiple characters and you are suddenly Cubing the amount of Ram needed.

In any case, I disagree about the common held perception that G9's are more of resource hog than G8's. Especially the often-claimed "double the size" trope I keep reading on here and other forums.

I agree it is in actuality more at default settings
45MB for G8F at Sub-D 2
250MB for G9 at Sub-D 3

I'd still recommended the slightly larger G9 not be a factor in model choice as Reducing it to Sub-D 2 or 1 would more then solve any VRAM issues.

 

[TChamb]

Oy folks,

just to add my idea about a thing, because it might get kind of technical here...so just to swipe into another direction:

For "how to start":

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You must be registered to see the links

...and then, it depends on what kind of person you are:
Do you want to know everything before you click or do you learn as you go?

I started my first render and saw that lighting was a mess.
I heard about "dome light" and used that. Not that good for my case.
So I took a step back and learned about lighting in general and found that dome & camera lights are not for me (in the moment). 3 Point lights and emitting objects made my day.

As you can not learn everything at the same time, I suggest to start with the character: Chose one, configure it, see how the render looks. And before you know it, you will complain about haircuts in no time... .

Have fun & good luck!

 

[JFSebastian81]

But we seem to be trailing off subject and hijacking a thread

no, not at all XD
at least 5% of this is usefull for me

For "how to start":

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You must be registered to see the links

this is 4 years old. its not outdatet? normaly ui change much and better/different tools are implemented.
i watch rauko`s tutorials, they look fine.

Do you want to know everything before you click or do you learn as you go?

both^^

more learn as i go.but i run in some deathends so sometimes is better knowing from the start what will come and what is impossible.

As you can not learn everything at the same time

yeah... but i must, is the starter problem.
now my problems are, lighting, genitals, squishyness, clothes (find good ones and how to change them (make the jacket open e.g.)), interaction char/clothes with furniture, how to tell a story with pics., why are the walls in my render extreme white and so on.
mostly i focus on char because progress is easy visible

Have fun & good luck!

thx, you to

 

[felldude]

no, not at all XD
at least 5% of this is usefull for me

More then most threads then lol.

My advice is start with the Sphere primitive.
Learn how to Convert it to Sub-D
Learn how to Use deformers on it
Learn how to set the resolution level back to Base and Export it with the Deformers applied.
Learn how to import that obj as a morph target into the sphere
Learn how to set a smoothing modifier on a cloth plane to interact with the sphere and automatically deform like a ball dropping on a bed.

Start with a sphere learn those things on something simple and you will be able to interact with the scenes your in effortlessly.

 

[drapak12]

yeah... but i must, is the starter problem.
now my problems are, lighting, genitals, squishyness, clothes (find good ones and how to change them (make the jacket open e.g.)), interaction char/clothes with furniture, how to tell a story with pics., why are the walls in my render extreme white and so on.
mostly i focus on char because progress is easy visible

Hi again,
I wanted to investigate G9 features little bit more, but I have a lot of work this week. Anyway according to your comments and my current experience with all Genesis generations- you should go with G8 because:
- G8 looks ok with subd = 1 or 2. 90% of all renders here are P3DA girls (all looks the same), young, beauties, smooth soft skin which looks ok even with subd = 0. Some older characters with wriknles, skin folds req higher resolution but usually subd=2 is ok, only few need higher res. G9 base nipples start to looks like nipples with subd = 3
- You have no experience not only with software, but either with general render workflow (you ask about technical tips on porn forum ). G8 is easier, less advanced and there is more assets, support and tutorials for G8.
- G8 is more versatile - it is easier to conform G3 (or even G2) clothes to G8. G3 textures are just "plug and play". Moreover old G3 textures set are usually smaller. They were created few years ago, when your computer would be "high PC"

Felldude is right - if you want to learn start with primitives. Check deformers, creating and loading morphs with cubes. You can create cubes subdivided or not without changing resolution. Material shader testing is easier and faster on s[here or cube then on Genesis face. The same with light.

 

[JFSebastian81]

terminology is also a thing i need to learn.

P3DA girls

so P3DA is an artist, right?
why so many from him?

 

[drapak12]

Artist who create

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. Looks very cute and hot, but all are the same.
If you use one of his/her model nonoe care if your redner is good.

 

[Turning Tricks]

- You have no experience not only with software, but either with general render workflow (you ask about technical tips on porn forum ).

Just wanted to comment on this bit...

Don't dismiss this place just because it's a pirate porn site. Do searches for specific, technical questions about using Daz, or Ren'py and most of the time, you'll find a thread here on F95 that has answers. Most of us on here are passionate about this thing we do, and there's a lot of knowledge here that is not available anywhere else. And some very smart people who are willing to help others.

Porn has always had a major effect on the technologies used in entertainment. We're all trying to make great art, with no budget, lol. So we learn to get the most out of what we have.