VN Any tips or tricks or guides about writing a story?

[mypossiblepasts]

Hey!
I really struggle with kickstarting my creative process of writing a story for a VN, due to mix of various issues.
I have basically zero experience in writing fiction (I don't count RP sessions), I am a huge procrastinator, my mood swings like a metronome, I easly get obsessed on even the most mundane things leading to a lot of time waste during a day. The list goes on and on.
Oh, and I often get a sudden idea that surges into my brain in form of images, or movie-like scenes. This led to many, unrelated frames that I want to add to the VN - but they are without any context and I feel like wasting time trying to brute force their way into the plot.

Do you have any workflows? I know there are various story-building rules, like the classic journej of protagonist, acts structure, etc etc.
And I know I don't need them for my for fun, nonprofit, hobbyist project. So it's like my hunger for perfection stands in a way of mediocore - with which I would be absolutely fine!
Idk, I'd love to have some agile template that I could gradually fill in the gaps of. Or maybe there is some nice AI assitant? I checked few but they were usually just an added hustle instead of help.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

SpiteWorks
Just to clarify:
By using AI I meant something like a... behind the scenes Game Master? Mentor?
So when I sit to writing my story, I have something to guide me - "maybe elaborate on this topic?" or "hey - 2 chapters ago you wrote about X - maybe it's good time to pull it back into the plot?"

 

[osanaiko]

SpiteWorks
Just to clarify:
By using AI I meant something like a... behind the scenes Game Master? Mentor?
So when I sit to writing my story, I have something to guide me - "maybe elaborate on this topic?" or "hey - 2 chapters ago you wrote about X - maybe it's good time to pull it back into the plot?"

That sounds like you are talking about an actual human editor. AI tools are not there yet (and not sure if the current crop of LLMs ever will get to "understanding" the nuance of a story, even if they can do a reasonable job of spitting out understandable but bland text).

The Lemmasoft forums

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(official renpy forums) have a nice section about story writing for VNs. There's also many many resources on the interwebs, some that are genuinely helpful and some that are just money grabs (buy my course to learn to be a writer!!!1!). If your bullshit detector is properly calibrated you should find something useful.

Writing is a learned skill - you get better by practicing. you get better faster with focused intentional practice with a feedback loop. Best way would be to join some mutual-critique circle and participate in mini-writing challenges, and have other group members give you constructive criticism.

 

[voronkov]

Не знаю как надо но напишу как делаю я для создания истории которая подходит для игры. Нужна программа в которой писать будешь по типу MindMaster. Их много разных и в них удобнее делать разветвление сюжета. Насчёт помощи от ИИ для создания истории. Иногда пользуюсь сайтом который добавляет пару строк к тому что я скину. Иногда глупости выдаёт, но иногда сюжет идёт туда куда я не думал. Целиком сюжет не напишет но поможет идти дальше если не знаете как продолжить. Но всё равно основное надо самому писать. Где найти такой сайт или программу, уже надо самостоятельно искать какие лучше или удобнее.
Сюжет. Хорошо бы если бы с самого начала иметь хоть небольшое представление какой должен быть финал. Но в таких играх это е всегда просто. Если сюжет линейный то просто двигаетесь диалогами и действиями к этому финалу. Иногда картина просто статичная без изменений в игре а всё что нужно описано словами. Так что нужно иногда писать ощущения и эмоции персонажей. Кстати я иногда когда делаю картинки то делаю даже того что нет в сценарии к игре. Просто по ходу создания вижу что так будет смотреться интересно и делаю то чего ещё нет в сюжете и уже потом описываю историю по этим картинкам.
Персонажи. Продумайте кто участники вашей игры. Как выглядят. Как ведут себя в той или иной ситуации. Дошли до момента выбора и уже понятно как будет действовать в зависимости от выбора если уже продумано заранее его личность.
Запоминания и разветвление сюжета. Обычно я создаю где написан сценарий отдельное место где пишу переменные и что они делают. Так же можно добавлять подписи в самом коде что при если переменная к примеру 1 то персонаж при определённом выборе будет не очень рад. Сюжет при выборе нужен всего одни. Просто в один момент делаешь две или три небольших истории которые выбираешь или в которые попадаешь в зависимости от основного выбора. Потом снова возврат в основной сюжет. Если это игра песочница то так главное в сюжете чтобы было понятно и не скучно пока не наберёшь нужное для продвижения по сюжету.
В новеллах это общение главное. Привет, пока, как дела. Всё это подойдёт и по нескольку раз даже для одного персонажа. Пари примеров того как я пишу истории и текстовая игра примером того как описываю персонажей.

I don’t know how to do it, but I’ll write how I do it to create a story that is suitable for the game. You need a program in which you will write like MindMaster. There are many different ones and it is more convenient to branch the plot in them. About the help from AI to create history. Sometimes I use a site that adds a couple of lines to what I send. Sometimes it comes out stupid, but sometimes the plot goes where I didn’t think it would. It won’t write the entire plot, but it will help you move on if you don’t know how to continue. But you still have to write the main thing yourself. Where to find such a site or program, you have to independently search for which one is better or more convenient.
Plot. It would be nice if from the very beginning we had at least a small idea of what the ending should be. But in such games it is not always easy. If the plot is linear, then you simply move with dialogue and actions towards this ending. Sometimes the picture is simply static without changes in the game, and everything that needs to be described is described in words. So sometimes you need to write the feelings and emotions of the characters. By the way, sometimes when I make pictures, I even do things that are not in the script for the game. It’s just that as I create it I see that it will look interesting and I do something that is not yet in the plot and only then describe the story based on these pictures.
Characters. Think about who the participants in your game are. What they look like. How they behave in a given situation. We have reached the moment of choice and it is already clear how he will act depending on the choice if his personality has already been thought out in advance.
Memorization and branching of the plot. Usually I create a separate place where the script is written where I write the variables and what they do. You can also add signatures in the code itself that if the variable is, for example, 1, then the character will not be very happy with a certain choice. When choosing a plot, you only need one. You just make two or three small stories at one moment that you choose or find yourself in depending on the main choice. Then back to the main plot again. If this is a sandbox game, then the main thing in the plot is that it is understandable and not boring until you get what you need to advance through the plot.
In short stories, this communication is the main thing. Hello, bye, how are you? All this is suitable several times even for one character. A bet is an example of how I write stories and a text game is an example of how I describe characters.

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[Glib_Gentleman]

Do you have any workflows? I know there are various story-building rules, like the classic journej of protagonist, acts structure, etc etc.
And I know I don't need them for my for fun, nonprofit, hobbyist project. So it's like my hunger for perfection stands in a way of mediocore - with which I would be absolutely fine!

First, I'll say, don't let your lack of proficiency stand in the way of your ambitions.

The "hunger for perfection" is dangerous, because, bluntly - your first project (VN, book, or whatever) will always be your worst. You'll get better by doing. So don't fall into the trap of things needing to be "perfect" or you'll never release anything.

Also, don't let things like exercises, workflow studies, or just advice on this forum be something you are using to procrastinate and avoid working on the project.

Just START. You first draft and first version doesn't have to be the final, edits exist, and after you have a VN with a beginning, middle, and end, you can see where it needs to be reworked, or where you need to add an extra CG to punch things up, etc.

But you could write and program nearly the whole game with placeholder graphics for a VN. It could literally be rectangles that say "(Name of Character) Angry" and "Mall Background", etc.

That sounds like you are talking about an actual human editor. AI tools are not there yet (and not sure if the current crop of LLMs ever will get to "understanding" the nuance of a story, even if they can do a reasonable job of spitting out understandable but bland text).

I agree that AI isn't at the level of being able to write a good story by itself at this point, but it can be a great and useful tool to a human writer if they use it as a tool.

It's actually really handy FOR some controlled editing. You can feed it a large portion of your writing or story and then get some detailed dissections of it by asking the AI pointed questions about the text. As always, it is good to treat anything the AI says to you with a large grain of salt, but it can be useful in the writing process as long as you aren't trying to make IT the writing process.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

So don't fall into the trap of things needing to be "perfect" or you'll never release anything.

That's what I meant with my paraphrase of "don't let perfect be the enemy of good"

But you absolutely summed me up with:

Also, don't let things like exercises, workflow studies, or just advice on this forum be something you are using to procrastinate and avoid working on the project.

Just START.

Because that's absolutely the case.

AI tools are not there yet

I disagree, I absolutely can see some fine tuned GPT4 be able to fulfill my expectations.

Best way would be to join some mutual-critique circle and participate in mini-writing challenges, and have other group members give you constructive criticism.

Once again - it's not the writing that I have issue with itself, rather the workflow.

I really struggle to do anything in life without clear guidlines.
Have you ever tried to sharpen a pencil, but it was always little off, or when it was perfect - the core broke off, and so you go again, and again, and again, untill there's no pencill left?
That's me.

MindMaster

Я не искал совета по поводу самого содержания, но все равно спасибо.

Но этот Mind Master выглядит так, о чем я никогда не слышал, но всегда хотел! Я должен это проверить!

 

[Jake the flake]

That's what I meant with my paraphrase of "don't let perfect be the enemy of good"

But you absolutely summed me up with:

Because that's absolutely the case.


I disagree, I absolutely can see some fine tuned GPT4 be able to fulfill my expectations.

Once again - it's not the writing that I have issue with itself, rather the workflow.

I really struggle to do anything in life without clear guidlines.
Have you ever tried to sharpen a pencil, but it was always little off, or when it was perfect - the core broke off, and so you go again, and again, and again, untill there's no pencill left?
That's me.



Я не искал совета по поводу самого содержания, но все равно спасибо.

Но этот Mind Master выглядит так, о чем я никогда не слышал, но всегда хотел! Я должен это проверить!

From what I've seen, most writers have their own unique schedules. Stephen King has his eight hour workdays but started out writing during breaks and while doing laundry. Some writers have word count goals and some of those are happy if they manage 500 words a day. Hunter s. Thompson had a crazy schedule and wrote at night.

I'm not sure if that's what you mean by workflow?

 

[mypossiblepasts]

I'm not sure if that's what you mean by workflow?

Not exactly :/
It's like... Imagine different scopes of a writing process, going from more macro viewpoint to the most micro one.
The diagram of it would look like this:
Your reply -> My idea -> Previous responses

I have the issue with what happens AFTER you choose one of mentioned by you paths, but before you stumble upon creative issues.

 

[Jake the flake]

Not exactly :/
It's like... Imagine different scopes of a writing process, going from more macro viewpoint to the most micro one.
The diagram of it would look like this:
Your reply -> My idea -> Previous responses

I have the issue with what happens AFTER you choose one of mentioned by you paths, but before you stumble upon creative issues.

Could you explain what your workflow looks like now for context?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Idk, I'd love to have some agile template that I could gradually fill in the gaps of.

What you need looks more like letting the story mature in your brain.

Following a procedural approach was mandatory in the past, but nowadays, with most of them using a computer, I'm not sure that even book writers write their stories in order.
Before this they had tons of notes on their desk, with the ideas that crossed their mind before they starts working on their book, and the one that crossed their mind while working on the book, but take place later in the story. But now, thanks tho text editors, they can perfectly write a part of the chapter 10, then go back to the chapter 3 they were working on before they get "that idea".

And it's not really different for a game. It just force you to have the story wrote before you starts to works on the renders and release the first update. But this is not a bad point, it's more the opposite.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

Before this they had tons of notes on their desk, with the ideas that crossed their mind before they starts working on their book, and the one that crossed their mind while working on the book, but take place later in the story.
But now, thanks tho text editors, they can perfectly write a part of the chapter 10, then go back to the chapter 3 they were working on before they get "that idea".

This is literally me, but skilled.
I struggle so much going back to Ch. 3 after toying with 10 and seeing in my head how's 9 and 11 might look now.
But then I would have to write backwards basically and it... Annoys me? Idk.
So you say I should just embrace it instead of trying to fix it?

 

[anne O'nymous]

I struggle so much going back to Ch. 3 after toying with 10 and seeing in my head how's 9 and 11 might look now.

That's why I'm talking about letting the story mature in your head.

For someone with a mind working like yours, seating face to your computer because you decided to write a story don't works great. What is needed is more that you decide to seat on your computer because it's good, you've now all the big lines of the story in your head.
Have a bunch of text files, and use them to take notes of your ideas, even to write a bit of dialog or describe a scene or action that flash in your mind. Place them where they happen chronologically, but don't try at first to effectively write the story.

Then, when you'll only have blanks to fill, there you can starts to effectively write, turning your notes into something more definitive. It can need month before you reach this point, but it's not really a problem, whatever if you forgot something, you've your notes as reminder, and like they are ordered, you'll reach them when you'll need them.

Once you'll start effectively writing, you'll also need another file. A text, a spreadsheet or whatever else fit your taste, to keep track of the main events in chronological order. Those elements are important because you need to be careful to not talk about something yet to happen, nor to forgot, once it happened, to integrate it when it's relevant.
And like your mind wander a lot, without that file you wouldn't remember precisely if it happened for real, or if it's just a thought you had afterward.

It will need times, but there's no shame in taking the time you need to do something.
And, as I implied, it will give you an advantage over many other game devs around there, you'll have your full story when you'll starts effectively working on the game itself.
It will also be an advantage because it will help you focus on the current task. The text will no be definitive, but the story will. You can tweak a dialog, because it feel better "that way", but the events, and their order, stay.
Starting the moment you starts effectively writing the story under its definitive form, you've to say "no" to your imagination when it starts to wander. And it's easier when you can add a "I already know how it will happen" after that said "no".

And if really it's too difficult to stick to this "no", you'll still be able to divide the story in two parts. The one before the point where you currently are, that is a strong "no I must not change it", and the one after it, that is a weaker "no", and can still be changed. Hence the important of the file with the chronological order of the main points.
Then, you'll also have a bigger incentive to then return to the chapter you were working on. Thanks to your notes, this doesn't mean being in front of the keyboard searching what to write. You already have a good idea regarding what happen there, and just need to find "how" to write it.

So you say I should just embrace it instead of trying to fix it?

Totally. And not necessarily the way I describe it ; at least to the exception of the chronological thing, this is really important due to the way you'll process.

I know that the cliché when we think about professional writers is the guy who sat in front of it's typewriter and write a chapter by day. But, precisely, it's a cliché. There's also some who only write at night, or only one hour a day, or just a dozen lines each day. And, what isn't shown by the cliché, is the months they previously spent not writing, but already thinking about their story.

The important point is that any working process is a valid process, especially for a hobbyist, as long as it's the process that works for that person.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

I assume most of people that read my post thought "what the fuck is he on about?".
anne O'nymous You kinda translated my question to English and then answered it! Thank you very much for this insight.
And while it doesn't even feel like something new - you putting a name to it helps a lot, allowing me to point those things with mental finger.

Those elements are important because you need to be careful to not talk about something yet to happen, nor to forgot, once it happened, to integrate it when it's relevant.

Aaaand this is where I think AI would shine! Although I now after some research know - we are not yet there.
But it's almost there!
Oh boy, I'd love to have some Mind Map style sandbox with AI assistant.
Here some plot structure, list of chapters maybe, connected with specific txt files of the story I wrote, there some abstract ideas to consider, chatbot that can easly navigate all my creative shithole when I forget where exactly I mentioned XYZ and what I wrote about it :'D

 

[mypossiblepasts]

Google just released prototype of something, that gets us one step closer to my ideal tool:

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Sadly, only for US, but tested on vpn for a moment - seemed to work really nice!