Alternatives to Patreon - Maybe for Adult games

[przewodo]

Hi! I'm the developer/owner of adultpledge.com.

About the charges: 10% + $0,65 per charge, tts is because of Payza.

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Payza had advised me last night that when the money enters on our account, they held 10% of total charge during 6 months for chargeback protection. In the end, We will have to change the terms to make the same.

Payza Fee: 5.5% + $0,65 per charge
Payza Chargeback Holds: 10% of total
AdultPledge Fee: 4.5% (same as Patreon)

So, for a $5,00 pledge

Payza Fee: $0.92
Payza Chargeback Holds: $0,50
AdultPledge Fee: $0,23

The value that is credit to creators is $3,35.
After 6 months, It will be credit $0,50.

We will have to change the terms because of that explaining even this example. Because of the porn industry their charges are way high, and this protection is because of that too. They said that is "high risk industries".

In a meanwhile, we are trying to find other payment company with better fee options, but it is very difficult because major companies that have a decent API, are on market at least 8 years don't allow adult content to be sold with their name.

So, for now, this is the only option that we have. Better than nothing. But ASAP we will find another company with better fees.

Thanks!

 

[przewodo]

I forgot to say before. Because the high fees of Payza, we have implemented the following when an reward is created. You can create, for example, an reward that is $6.00 each 6 months. It means that this reward is a $1.00/month reward for the backer. For the creator, he will receive in anticipation 6 months of pledge.

By doing this, the $0.65 per charge is spread in 6 months too, so, It is like that the charge is 10% + $0.11.

 

[przewodo]

BTW, I'm totally open for feedback, suggestions and critics.

I'm a game developer. When I was trying to launch my page on Patreon, I had seen that I could launch because of the content of the game. I tried to find an alternative but didn't had, so, my alternative was to make myself and crowdfunding for this specific type of content. That is why on our case, we can only create games, comics and books.

If you let anyone envolve real people in any project, you will have a huge amount of concerns. When you specify that this isn't an option, this are consider art and the concerns are reduced a lot.

The main problem is the adult theme, that most companies dos not allow it.

 

[przewodo]

Thanks for your input, darthseduction.

Well, I believe that this thread could be useful for both game developpers such as yourself and platform-based funding intitiative entrepreneurs as well, as a place of exchange.

I would invite przewodo to address your concerns.

I guess that, as a player/consumer, many of us would want these endeavours to succeed. It would be too early and premature for many of us to mark our preferences.

It would be better for devs and platform entr. to find solutions in a spirit of collaboration.

I totally agree with you that we must collaborate with each other. For the fees that left to us, will be used to pay the servers, marketing and of course our profit. Our website is funded with a real company here in Brazil. We are a little company yet, but we are more than 8 years making websites, games, and systems for our customers.

Everything that was made was made under the law, and the creators will be protected too if they stay under the law to.

Everyone knows that on adult industry if you make a little mistake you pay for that. Just look at this US law about porn industry:

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If anyone knows other option of payment system that can be used and accepts Adult Content and has lower fees than Payza, we will immediately change to them.

 

[przewodo]

For gamersglory :

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For przewodo

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I already had seen this website.

Who does not accept adult content:
- Adyen
- Zoho
- SecurePay
And going on.. I already contacted more than 20 payment websites. But we are still searching.

Maybe PayU will work. I'm waiting for their response. Blizzard uses PayU

 

[DarthSeduction]

I already had seen this website.

Who does not accept adult content:
- Adyen
- Zoho
- SecurePay
And going on.. I already contacted more than 20 payment websites. But we are still searching.

Maybe PayU will work. I'm waiting for their response. Blizzard uses PayU

Any chance you thought of going to the provider PornHub uses?

 

[przewodo]

Will try that. The major problem until now that when they accept payment for adult content, for a crowdfunding that people will pay lower values such 1~10 usd, fees like payza are almost impracticable. Doing the math, if the pledge is about 25 usd, the $0.65 are nothing and then 10% is the same as Patreon.

They can get 10% only because they are blocking adult content. that is why PayPal acxepts them.

 

[przewodo]

The main prerequisites for an payment system to work is
1) Must accept adult content;
2) Must be reliable;
3) Must accept to transfer money for banks around the world.
4) Must accept to transfer money to services like payoneer.
5) Must have recurring payments on their api.
6) Must have lower fees for the business to work.

 

[Delmach]

So, not like there was the biggest hope for it, but MakerSupport seems to be out completly as any alternative. Not sure if they really just overnight changed the guidelines but those are the ones found now.

Adult Content
A limited subset of adult content is permitted, while the vast majority of adult content is not permitted. The following content is not permitted in any case:

• Pornography:
  • Photos, videos, or audio including real people or depicted characters engaging in sexual acts
• Sexual services:
  • Prostitution
  • Escort services
  • Adult webcam shows
• Content including themes of bestiality, incest, rape, or exploitation of children

If content falls into any of the above categories, it may not be posted on MakerSupport in any capacity. Additionally, the creation of such content cannot be funded through MakerSupport, even if the content is not posted directly on MakerSupport itself.

On the other hand, we do permit some adult content. In these limited cases, the content should typically be marked as NSFW when posted on MakerSupport. Profiles posting this content should be marked as NSFW as well.

The following content is permitted in most cases:

• Cartoon depictions of scantily clad, but not nude, characters
• Depictions of nudity within a very clearly artistic context:
  • Historical paintings
• Informative content about rape or child exploitation
  • Survivor stories
  • Crime statistics
  • Efforts to raise awareness
• Writing including sexual topics, as long as they don't include themes of bestiality, incest, rape, or child exploitation:
  • 50 Shades of Grey

To summarize, any content, even written or audio, has to be the most pure vanilla fantasy ever, in the audio case you cant even use real people engaging in sexual acts (not sure how you even check that). Also lovely that they allow "Cartoon depictions of scantily clad, but not nude, characters". Theres basically more to see in most apps for bad cash grab games or anime. If they follow that through its not even an alternative for people that just dont like Patreon.

So the hope continues, especially with most creators just complying to everything. May be a time to not just shoot down every proposal about an alternative, even when creator might not get the amount right away that they did before. Or supporter might pay slightly more because of those high risk processors, the alternative to that might be it all vanishing.

I get it when it comes to money, but a few % more for the chance of survival for what you like might be worth it. Now, if people refuse alternatives out of reasons as "no different payment tiers" for example, then my understanding runs thin. But as always it has to crash extremly badly first, even worse then now. Which of course is humanity's specialty, acting later.

 

[przewodo]

So, not like there was the biggest hope for it, but MakerSupport seems to be out completly as any alternative. Not sure if they really just overnight changed the guidelines but those are the ones found now.

Adult Content
A limited subset of adult content is permitted, while the vast majority of adult content is not permitted. The following content is not permitted in any case:

• Pornography:
  • Photos, videos, or audio including real people or depicted characters engaging in sexual acts
• Sexual services:
  • Prostitution
  • Escort services
  • Adult webcam shows
• Content including themes of bestiality, incest, rape, or exploitation of children

If content falls into any of the above categories, it may not be posted on MakerSupport in any capacity. Additionally, the creation of such content cannot be funded through MakerSupport, even if the content is not posted directly on MakerSupport itself.

On the other hand, we do permit some adult content. In these limited cases, the content should typically be marked as NSFW when posted on MakerSupport. Profiles posting this content should be marked as NSFW as well.

The following content is permitted in most cases:

• Cartoon depictions of scantily clad, but not nude, characters
• Depictions of nudity within a very clearly artistic context:
  • Historical paintings
• Informative content about rape or child exploitation
  • Survivor stories
  • Crime statistics
  • Efforts to raise awareness
• Writing including sexual topics, as long as they don't include themes of bestiality, incest, rape, or child exploitation:
  • 50 Shades of Grey

To summarize, any content, even written, has to be the most pure vanilla fantasy ever. Also lovely that they allow "Cartoon depictions of scantily clad, but not nude, characters". Theres basically more to see in most apps for bad cash grab games or anime. If they follow that through its not even an alternative for people that just dont like Patreon.

So the hope continues, especially with most creators just complying to everything. May be a time to not just shoot down every proposal about an alternative, even when creator might not get the amount right away that they did before.

If their payment system does not allow adult content and they find that they are allowing, they will have their account blocked. That is the main reason that Patreon are doing that. They prefer to loose some of the creator rather than had the accounts blocked or have to change their fees.

And you can't even use separated payments system for each type of content because the companies are very specific what they do t allow.

We have used payza because they dont have problems with that and they are reliable. Just the fees are too high, but is better than nothing.

I can say that our website can support and is almost equal to Patreon speaking in functionalities.

There is some minor things that is not implemented yet but are being released this week.

 

[Delmach]

Patreon did a big push to actually support adult content creators with Paypal though, they claimed it was their fight to end some of the discrimination, which, from people heard that do real life adult things, isnt worth that much anymore, since last year. And MakerSupport, as claimed by a supporter of one of the people that actually made a MakerSupport account, apparently did that change literally overnight.

That is the main reason that Patreon are doing that. They prefer to loose some of the creator rather than had the accounts blocked or have to change their fees.

That interferes with what was said before about Patreon actually fighting to allow adult content, and as stated in Paypals Guidelines:


"We permit U.S.-only transactions for certain sexually oriented physical goods that are physically delivered to the customer. Videos, DVDs, and magazines are examples of physical goods"

"
We don’t permit PayPal account holders to buy or sell:

• Sexually oriented digital goods or content delivered through a digital medium. Downloadable pictures or videos and website subscriptions are examples of digital goods.
• Sexually oriented goods or services that involve, or appear to involve, minors.
• Services whose purpose is to facilitate meetings for sexually oriented activities.

Which means Patreon wouldnt be able to allow any of those "sexually oriented digital goods", but as stated above, they made a deal.

Anyway, Makersupport is out as an alternative if they follow through with their guidelines, as thats too pure for anyone out there, really. A probably appropriate guess is that they want to take more of the Youtube creator refugees that are fed up with Youtube's shenanigans regarding ads and monetarisation. But even those probably think those guidelines are too prude.

 

[DarthSeduction]

So, not like there was the biggest hope for it, but MakerSupport seems to be out completly as any alternative. Not sure if they really just overnight changed the guidelines but those are the ones found now.

Adult Content
A limited subset of adult content is permitted, while the vast majority of adult content is not permitted. The following content is not permitted in any case:

• Pornography:
  • Photos, videos, or audio including real people or depicted characters engaging in sexual acts
• Sexual services:
  • Prostitution
  • Escort services
  • Adult webcam shows
• Content including themes of bestiality, incest, rape, or exploitation of children

If content falls into any of the above categories, it may not be posted on MakerSupport in any capacity. Additionally, the creation of such content cannot be funded through MakerSupport, even if the content is not posted directly on MakerSupport itself.

On the other hand, we do permit some adult content. In these limited cases, the content should typically be marked as NSFW when posted on MakerSupport. Profiles posting this content should be marked as NSFW as well.

The following content is permitted in most cases:

• Cartoon depictions of scantily clad, but not nude, characters
• Depictions of nudity within a very clearly artistic context:
  • Historical paintings
• Informative content about rape or child exploitation
  • Survivor stories
  • Crime statistics
  • Efforts to raise awareness
• Writing including sexual topics, as long as they don't include themes of bestiality, incest, rape, or child exploitation:
  • 50 Shades of Grey

To summarize, any content, even written or audio, has to be the most pure vanilla fantasy ever, in the audio case you cant even use real people engaging in sexual acts (not sure how you even check that). Also lovely that they allow "Cartoon depictions of scantily clad, but not nude, characters". Theres basically more to see in most apps for bad cash grab games or anime. If they follow that through its not even an alternative for people that just dont like Patreon.

So the hope continues, especially with most creators just complying to everything. May be a time to not just shoot down every proposal about an alternative, even when creator might not get the amount right away that they did before. Or supporter might pay slightly more because of those high risk processors, the alternative to that might be it all vanishing.

I get it when it comes to money, but a few % more for the chance of survival for what you like might be worth it. Now, if people refuse alternatives out of reasons as "no different payment tiers" for example, then my understanding runs thin. But as always it has to crash extremly badly first, even worse then now. Which of course is humanity's specialty, acting later.

It wasn't a complete surprise as stripe has a no porn policy, someone mentioned it prior to DS talking to them last month. Might have been in the sticky thread in development though.

 

[DarthSeduction]

If their payment system does not allow adult content and they find that they are allowing, they will have their account blocked. That is the main reason that Patreon are doing that. They prefer to loose some of the creator rather than had the accounts blocked or have to change their fees.

And you can't even use separated payments system for each type of content because the companies are very specific what they do t allow.

We have used payza because they dont have problems with that and they are reliable. Just the fees are too high, but is better than nothing.

I can say that our website can support and is almost equal to Patreon speaking in functionalities.

There is some minor things that is not implemented yet but are being released this week.

Your point about separate payment processors is true, but it would have been simple to create a separate URL for adult content and then do it that way. Patreon simply didn't want to cater to adult content at all. It's a shame we still live in such a repressed society, but, nothing we can do except move on to a new method.

 

[przewodo]

Your point about separate payment processors is true, but it would have been simple to create a separate URL for adult content and then do it that way. Patreon simply didn't want to cater to adult content at all. It's a shame we still live in such a repressed society, but, nothing we can do except move on to a new method.

I totally agree with you. Just think about. if Patreon wanted to allow this type of content they just needed to clone their website, integrate with other payment system and thats it. This is an extreme easy thing to do since they have money and the system already developed.

 

[gamersglory]

Patreon's problem is that there at the behest of VC's and other investors as well as Paypal and Stripe. Their investors and their payment processors don't want anything to do with adult smut and things that are dirty.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Patreon's problem is that there at the behest of VC's and other investors as well as Paypal and Stripe. Their investors and their payment processors don't want anything to do with adult smut and things that are dirty.

See, that's not really true. Their investors aren't saints. The probability that they don't jack off to Ayn Rand is so low that it's not worth mentioning. The problem isn't them, its their perception of us. If we as a society came together in support of smut, companies would be climbing over one another to peddle in it. But because we treat it like a taboo they do too.

 

[Delmach]

See, that's not really true. Their investors aren't saints. The probability that they don't jack off to Ayn Rand is so low that it's not worth mentioning. The problem isn't them, its their perception of us. If we as a society came together in support of smut, companies would be climbing over one another to peddle in it. But because we treat it like a taboo they do too.

Yarp, that pretty much sums it up. Its about everyone wanting it and not many admitting, which makes the natural things slightly to medium taboo and the "maybe a bit weirder things" extremly taboo. Solution, maybe not be blatant about it if you are not the person for that, but at least dont lie about not consuming porn (or being a sexual creature, like every human more or less). But meh, as if people would stop lying.

Oh and the payment processors would love the money, its barely a moral factor, thats a no doubter. Its that lying about everything thing that screws society in that part, again. Which leads to "bad" publicity, to chargebacks, to the high risk procedure with adult content, and so on. Which also screws with not even real content because people like to hyperbole.

Im still hopeful, as said before, because there is money to be made, which sadly/luckily means there will be enough people trying to get a piece of the cake.

 

[gamersglory]

Patreon's problem is that there at the behest of VC's and other investors as well as Paypal and Stripe. Their investors and their payment processors don't want anything to do with adult smut and things that are dirty.

That's what I meant was public perception. No company that I know of want's to be perceived as "Smut peddlers" It's bad PR. I'm sure that when word got back to the VC's that invested in Patreon about the PayPal thing they pressured Patreon to follow suit

 

[przewodo]

Ok, let me ask this: what you guys think that must be changed on adultpledge.com (ignore payzabecause this i know that have to change) to be a good place?

 

[DSSAlex]

Once you have a few more creators signed up you should make the front page more backer facing. Maybe a highlighted project and a mission statement.

The explore page should probably be sorted into different tags. I'd also add some functionality for backers to pin specific tags so they'll get new content with those tags highlighted for them.