Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread
- Thread starter OhWee
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- May 8, 2017
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So finally one of the biggest has been hit. Seems like it's a matter of time for others in that case. Patreon is just slow. Dating My Daughter will have it tough, Summertime Saga can change it pretty decently and Big Brother might be actually better without it. Sad it's all forced. Oh well...
- Oct 23, 2017
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So Dreams of Desire finally got hit. Hopefully the developer has some workaround, or some "anonymous" person drops some kind of mod that allows incest back on. The incest is honestly one of the biggest draws of the game, so removing it is going to kill a lot of interest. Now I'm worried for Summertime Saga as well. Patreon has been getting worse and worse towards certain content creators.
- May 8, 2017
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Dreams Of Desire can change it without a huge problems but Dating My Daughter might go down hard. I can't see a way to change it easily. Changing title to DMD is fine but how the hell MrDot could change relations when even step isn't allowed and players already know it's about dating your daughter.
- Aug 16, 2016
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I'll say it one more time. In January/February two new platforms for adult games will appear. One is made by a big company and one from the anonymous person. The creators will be able to choose which one will be better.
I only know about those two but after last events there could raise a few more sites.
I only know about those two but after last events there could raise a few more sites.
- May 8, 2017
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That's promising. It might be a solution but I honestly doubt the whole market will move there due to various reasons (mostly financial). It might be that industry will just adapt to these rules and incest won't be used anymore. We will see. It's a bummer cuz Patreon was really handy and as for now I didn't see any site that could offer the same quality as Patreon.
I wouldn't worry about incest related content. It was prominent years before Patreon was even a thing and it'll remain after.
- Oct 3, 2017
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Lawsuits regarding fictional incest in a game? I really dont think thats the case, I would say more likely would be that they dont hide adult content good enough, but thats also not really a thing, cant even search for that on their site. And also hiding it behind a Subscription wall counters that, which is one of the things I at least kinda get in regards of things Patreon wanted.
But this new step raises a few questions, did they actually check the game, or is it some person who thinks they are righteous and sets Patreon off to games that have any of their not wanted content?
Now I really hope those mentioned 2 Platforms work out, because you can write a game generic and someone might mod things back in, but then its well, written generic.
This point said by Lewdlabs covers it: "Changing the dialogue lines where the characters call each other by their family names, or say things that might imply this."
You cant really mod back in innuendos or hints when the whole scene does not build up to it anymore. (at least not with a few name changes)
Even if you dont particularly need incest, which I would say for myself (just think it can add more spice to the soup), you can easily say the whole concept of Dreams of Desire is forced content regarding sexual actions.
Because Patreon says in their Community Guidelines:"We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish content, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish content that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex."
Heck, wouldnt even call it hard to distinguish in this case. And they really wont take a "but its really only non-consensual in their dreams" explanation, as Lewdlabs already said they dont even care about the whole fiction thing. (but then again they care for the fiction when it is classifying itself as incest, basically means no loophole).
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- May 8, 2017
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Ofc it was and it will stay popular. But whole western industry is on Patreon now. Years before Patreon were really really bad for adult games and they were nothing in comparison to these days when it comes to number and complexity of games. Incest was strong but wasn't even half as strong as it is now so Patreon might strongly affect proportions of different fetishes on a whole market.
That is the moment where he should just tell Patreon to fuck off and take his game elswhere. Even setting up donations or something. But not, he'll just be cave in to insane demands. I hope his patrons boycott him in response.
And before someone starts with sob stories about how this is their income and so on, I DO NOT CARE. What I care is that people are so desperate to keep their e-begging shekels that they simply will do whatever it takes, throwing their fanbase under the bus if so needed. And this is true for most Patreon devs anyway. People who've grown complacent with milking for as long as they can for maximized profits, that have no respect for the people giving them money or passion for their product. This just makes it undeniable.
And I know I'll get a lot of shit for this post, but it's what I believe and devs in general have done very little to change my mind. People will keep defending and defending because they're so starved for whatever little content these devs promise on delivering if you keep supporting. But let's see how long until the bubble bursts as Patreon will keep trying to limit more and more the creative freedom of adult game developers, because it's certainly NOT stopping at incest and "ambiguously non consensual" stuff, but people's despair in clinging to the platform is making them willfully blind to this.
EDIT - An edit real quick, I reread his post and he's left it ambiguous if he'll change this game. So I apologize and take back what could refer to Lewdlabs specifically in the post above, as the last thing I want is jump to conclusions. But I still feel the statement above does stand true for the majority of the current patreon environment.
And before someone starts with sob stories about how this is their income and so on, I DO NOT CARE. What I care is that people are so desperate to keep their e-begging shekels that they simply will do whatever it takes, throwing their fanbase under the bus if so needed. And this is true for most Patreon devs anyway. People who've grown complacent with milking for as long as they can for maximized profits, that have no respect for the people giving them money or passion for their product. This just makes it undeniable.
And I know I'll get a lot of shit for this post, but it's what I believe and devs in general have done very little to change my mind. People will keep defending and defending because they're so starved for whatever little content these devs promise on delivering if you keep supporting. But let's see how long until the bubble bursts as Patreon will keep trying to limit more and more the creative freedom of adult game developers, because it's certainly NOT stopping at incest and "ambiguously non consensual" stuff, but people's despair in clinging to the platform is making them willfully blind to this.
EDIT - An edit real quick, I reread his post and he's left it ambiguous if he'll change this game. So I apologize and take back what could refer to Lewdlabs specifically in the post above, as the last thing I want is jump to conclusions. But I still feel the statement above does stand true for the majority of the current patreon environment.
I will bite the bait but please do wake me up when passion and respect can pay the bills.
- Oct 3, 2017
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Posted by
EDIT - An edit real quick, I reread his post and he's left it ambiguous if he'll change this game. So I apologize and take back what could refer to Lewdlabs specifically in the post above, as the last thing I want is jump to conclusions. But I still feel the statement above does stand true for the majority of the current patreon environment.[/QUOTE]
I reread it again myself, and for me its pretty clear that he changes things and what, by this information. (or stop the production entirely, and hell who wants that.)
im talking about this information:
So this forces me to either change some of the game or stop production entirely.
The deadline is the last day of November.
So in order to be able to continue working on Dreams of Desire, and be able to finish what I have started with it, I'm changing a few things about the game.
The list of changes are the following:
You must be registered to see the links
(somehow my reply didnt work or I did a whoopsie.)EDIT - An edit real quick, I reread his post and he's left it ambiguous if he'll change this game. So I apologize and take back what could refer to Lewdlabs specifically in the post above, as the last thing I want is jump to conclusions. But I still feel the statement above does stand true for the majority of the current patreon environment.[/QUOTE]
I reread it again myself, and for me its pretty clear that he changes things and what, by this information. (or stop the production entirely, and hell who wants that.)
im talking about this information:
So this forces me to either change some of the game or stop production entirely.
The deadline is the last day of November.
So in order to be able to continue working on Dreams of Desire, and be able to finish what I have started with it, I'm changing a few things about the game.
The list of changes are the following:
- Adding an intro scene, where it is explained that the characters are not related.
- Changing the dialogue lines where the characters call each other by their family names, or say things that might imply this.
Maybe. As I said I mostly wanted to avoid jumping at the guy because Lewdlab has been pretty open about this stuff and has been doing a great job at keeping other devs and the community informed. I'm just giving the benefit of the doubt, as he may try patching the content back in through a patch released elsewhere, or even offering a download of the uncensored game outside of Patreon.
Something similar to what some steam people do basically.
I feel the general content and tone of my post will already be controversial enough (though to me it's baffling it is), so I just wanted to set aside any arguing about how Lewdlab specifically will react from my main point, for the time being
- Jun 2, 2017
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All my game i played is for Incest mainly or Straight Shota....Patreon just lost a big client and i hope the creator will continue with incest but will loss money. Battle of the bulges is not on patreon and he is doing good. I hope the others will do the same
- May 8, 2017
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In my opinion you're falsely presuming that dev is creating a game out of passion and for his playerbase. I don't know any dev on Patreon like that. In fact mainstream industry works the same way. On Patreon nowadays it's pretty easy to notice that incest is obviously a marketing tool for most devs now. If devs were true to themselves and their own ideas whole market would be much more diverse.
It's not Patreon who pays their bills, it's their supporters.
That's how respect can help paying the bills. Lewdlab will lose supporters, but he's big enough it won't matter that much. Smaller devs will simply die out if faced with the same issue.
And Patreon can just change the rules of what is acceptable again as soon as they want. This is not a reliable way to pay the bills.
Patreon should not, and will not, be sustainable form of income in the long run. I'm amazed people are still fiercely defending it can be. People who were making it big should have tried to make their livelihood and game production as independent of it as they could, even before this change of rules. Other platforms for user content creation already give us a pretty ugly track record of changing the rules on the fly, of pulling the rug from behind its content creators with little explanation or way to dialogue. Youtube is probably the most egreigous example of this.
Somehow people's perception of Patreon morphed from a tip jar, a donation system, to a day job where you have any kind of security. It is not. And it will bite anyone who wasn't at least somewhat prepared to deal with this.
The passion part is probably true for a lot of people. I still think most people at least enjoy working with porn and want their work to be popular for both recognition and money. Nothing wrong with that. Still, better not to talk about passion devs may or may not have.
So let's talk business instead. Porn games, especially our current crowdfunding-based environment, makes the developer very dependent on keeping their userbase happy with their game. This isn't true only for crowdfunding, porn games are a niche market. Even in Japan, where the industry is big, there have been cases of big-name companies that shrunk or even went broke because of a perceived betrayal of their fanbase. Elf is probably the most famous example.
So, if the dev start cutting content their supporters subscribed in for to appease Patreon, they'll lose those supporters. And as you said, Incest is popular, that's the reason so many use it in their games. Also while we're focusing on incest, let's not forget stuff with questionable consensuality also falls under their new guidelines, and that's also a huge public if we take all the specific fetishes under that umbrella (mind control, rape, most of the time corruption and ntr also).
This is why not thinking of their playerbase will probably bite devs, especially small ones, in the ass if that's how they decide to move forward.
Just one thing, I have something to attend to right now. Won't log in for a couple hours. Anyone can reply to my posts if they wish to discuss and I will answer as soon as I get back.
But Patreon is what allows an easy access for both the dev and the supporters for the exchange of money. Convenience is the biggest barrier for people donating and the problem with straight donations is their inconsistency which makes planning ahead difficult.
Patreon solves both by making donations be monthly which is convenient for users that would like to keep supporting an ongoing project while also giving an estimate "salary" for the main dev so he can make plans ahead of time.
If it will work in the long run, despite its changes, is irrelevant, it's what is best available for everyone involved for now.
- May 8, 2017
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I don't agree with Japan and Elf situation as in my opinion it's much more complex than Patreon's guideline issue. Japan has a real gaming industry and our western one can be called as such only because of lack of a proper term. It's totally different model of distribution and it's highly dependable on both Patreon and monthly patrons. You are right ofc that playerbase will bite devs to some extent and it might be serious for individual devs but not for a whole market as players have nowhere to go as well as devs. Devs will adapt into something within rules and people will take it as they won't find anything else of the same quality. That's just one of the possibilities ofc and I find it rather likely to happen. You're right about other fetishes as well (not NTR - it can be easily consensual). If that was all about incest it wouldn't really bother me as it's specified. Non-consensual is what bothers me as it's such a term you can use to ban anything in adult games. Next year will probably show how far they go with these guidelines. In this pace it might take them years to remove all incest games. They could easily hit all biggest devs (DoD, DMD,BB,SS) at same time and look at the other panicking devs.