Patreon Is Hardening Their 'Adult Content' Guidelines. Discussion Thread

[anne O'nymous]

Alright, English is not my natural language and my skills are certainly worse than I want to believe, so I can be wrong. But reading this let me with the feeling that the community is safe.
I mean, he past is time swinging between, "we don't want porn", and, "the adult content will stay permit". By example, take what he said about the actual content versus the new rules. He started by reminding that the rules say "no incest porn", then he added that anyway there's no such thing. I can't imagine a single second that he don't know who's the first adult content creator on his site and that his game have a lot of incest (it's almost the only sexual content actually). Same, I can't imagine that he don't know that there's a game formerly named "Dating my Daughter" in the top 50 of the donations, or that the team don't reported to him the enormous number of times the word "incest" was found.

So, for me, he's trying to comply between two opposites positions that normally can't coexist. And that's why he just can't be precise about what "pornography" mean. More or less he defined it as "live/real content", but without restriction to this sole content. I understand that both creators and ourselves fear for the future, but I think that we see the problem from the wrong side.
He just can't be more clear than that because what's behind "adult content" don't mean the same for us than for the good christian he also talk to. Take the movie Dead Pool by example, I don't remember it as a porno, still it's a movie for adults... As long as he stay vague about the definition of "pornography", puritans will think that there isn't sexual content in Patreon, and that's we all want... And like the content is now always behind paywall, they'll not see it.

Stay clean seen from the outside, and people will imagine what suits them. For me, it's his goal and what he tried to explain... just hope that I understood correctly and not messed while reading between the lines.

 

[Ignazzio]

It seems like they're trying hard to improve their image so they're strongly against those 4 fetishes he mentioned. But it seems it won't affect in-game content whatsaever. Still, hard time for incest games it seems so. It's adorable how he's saying that they're against porn but respect their porn devs and won't do them any harm.

 

[pystudios]

I think there is a confusion here... from what I've read, NTR is something from the asian/japanese culture and it's usually a situation where you're forced due to blackmail, the need to survive or even life threatening situations to have a loved one doing a sexual act (usually without his/her and your will) while you watch, or even being restrained yourself (even your loved one too) so you cannot intervene. It's something that usually creates anger, desperation (due to the fact that you're rendered powerless because you cannot intervene), shock, fear, a psychological trauma to both the one that watches and the one being watched.
In the western culture and even in the newly asian/japanese times NTR has been watered down due to restriction so that looks more like cuckolding and there lies the confusion. NTR IS NOT CUCKOLDING. Cuckolding is done willingly... you simply like to see a loved one doing a sexual act while you watch and the loved one is also doing this willingly... and this excites the watcher, gives him/her pleasure and allows to have a quicker and/or more powerful orgasm.

It's abnormal unlike incest which happens in nature with all social animals and most other animals as well but cockholding or NTR happening in the animal kingdom would mean some serious mental abnormalities happening, Perhaps some toxic waste spill???

 

[pystudios]

I just can't understand the criteria they use to categorize incest as "hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex".

It was either badly worded (as others already stated) or their "Trust and Safety Team" is highly biased.

It is worded correctly, "...incest that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex..." so incest in a fictional story has to be consensual. Now in another sentence that was contradictory, as long as it did not glorify the act it may be allowed in fiction.
Note underage minors cannot consent, neither can adults who have been drugged or under some mind control.

 

[pystudios]

ebay did a cleaning up of their website several years ago. For a long time they were selling used panties and all sorts of things then first made the seller state that items were washed for ebay rules and that worked for a couple of years then an all out ban. Now I have to buy my used panties on Craigslist! lol btw ebay's value went down after they did the ban.

 

[Ignazzio]

It's abnormal unlike incest which happens in nature with all social animals and most other animals as well but cockholding or NTR happening in the animal kingdom would mean some serious mental abnormalities happening, Perhaps some toxic waste spill???

We're not animals and even among them it's not something standard in a bigger group. It cannot be compared to simple jealousy which is NTR as incest has legal, cultural and biological issues within. NTR among animals isn't any abnormality cuz it doesn't exist as their feelings are less complex than ours when it comes to sexuality. It's not a thread for this topic.
I wonder if they will create something stricter in a future regarding their rules. Even if you won't look for those games, there are so many of them with so many obvious titles that it might again gather attention at some point. If Patreon was my main income I wouldn't feel so sure as an incest dev now. Market has to evolve and I wonder how it's gonna look in 2-3 years.

 

[aliscad]

They got nothing to do or something?
Yeah right, all them hypocrites think they are too good to have anything to do with evil..... pff.
Yeah, they don't need to satify their fetish in form of arts, they are doing it in real life. lol

 

[TheAnointedOne]

Irredeemable is back:

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[pystudios]

We're not animals and even among them it's not something standard in a bigger group. It cannot be compared to simple jealousy which is NTR as incest has legal, cultural and biological issues within. NTR among animals isn't any abnormality cuz it doesn't exist as their feelings are less complex than ours when it comes to sexuality. It's not a thread for this topic.
I wonder if they will create something stricter in a future regarding their rules. Even if you won't look for those games, there are so many of them with so many obvious titles that it might again gather attention at some point. If Patreon was my main income I wouldn't feel so sure as an incest dev now. Market has to evolve and I wonder how it's gonna look in 2-3 years.

Oh but we are animals and just as it is ridiculous to think of a silver back gorilla wanting another silver back to come and fuck his colony of females while he watches so is it for most of us "human animals" to think of it as anything other than ridiculous. It's abnormality is the same among both animals and humans animals alike regardless of emotions which some speculate that we humans are the only animals with emotional capabilities, I do not believe such as even in lower level primates social bonds are held for decades as well as in oceanic mammals that are social like whales and dolphins.

 

[Shenz]

This comes from the Dev of zum Damenhaus received via Email

On the 17th October 2017 Patreon updated their community guideline for the adult content creators:

You must be registered to see the links

Since I am one of such, I took some time to investigate and observe some on-goings. Don't worry, it will all be fine in the end.

First off, to the new guideline itself:
It's a heavy victim of todays political correctness, as it is filled with contradictoriness and self-protection.

And this is what's going on, in my eyes:
I can imagine that Patreon gets pressured from somewhere and I don't want to da any speculation from where it may come.

Yes, a few adult oriented Patreon sites are currently 'under review'. This time is used for the Patreon team and the creator to make the public page more accessible, meaning explicit adult themes isn't the first thing people should see here (like I said: contradictory). Having them censored in a common or natural way is (appearently) still okay.

The important part is that no game's content will be cencored in any way! It's only the public presentation!
Furthermore I am sure that no creators will get banned!

I hope I don't go too far yet, but everything I came to know so far, assumes this conjecture. I'll update this post, if something critical happen.



Some of you may know Eromancer - Malise and the Machine.

To be fair, I didn't play their game, but this project got in the radar of the "Trust and Safety Team."

Yesterday their Patreon page got up again. They explained that they "had to make changes to our public content". Meaning they removed links to NSFW sites, their blog / Tumblr and even a link to a demo of their game.

I don't want to review their post, so you just might want to read it for yourself:

You must be registered to see the links

The main reason I decided to give a spontanous statment to this topic:
I want to take other creators impoverishment fear!

Like so many, including me, patreon is our only / our biggest income source, and we don't want to get this removed, since the result could be we living on the streets. I know, this is a bit exaggurated, but deep inside our project means everything to us. And we beg Patreon to not taking it away.

Now I am sure: They won't!
They will do everything to keep your project alive! Not only because they get a share from it, rather because they created a platform for other creators to live from what they like to do.

For it Patreon may be our main income; but it is also theirs!



At final I'd like to provide some tips if you are also a creator of adult content:

• renounce explicit images at your main page (or censor them accordingly)
• give a warning that you create NSFW content, even though anybody who comes to your side actually should know that
• avoid certain keywords in your posts. Like these, starting with Be, In, Ra, Ne or Lo. How many of them you completed right?
• I assume linking to your own blog / tumlr or whatever should actually still be okay. Insert a warning here where this will lead the viewer, if appropiate

Allright, that's all I have for you.

To all creators: Don't be afraid, and fight for that what you love!

To all patrons: Drawn ficional porn is not illigal! Means, that nobody will take away your way of relaxation!

To political correctness: You try to censor us? Well, cencor this: FUCK YOU!



Whoever you are, I wish you only the best!
random Crow

 

[Pantisocrat]

Animals don't do bondage, role-play or like a million other things, either, because they lack the intellectual and emotional sophistication to develop a sexual palette that broad. Who gives a rat's ass how animals fuck? There's no aspect of my life where that's any kind of criterion for me.

 

[Ignazzio]

Oh but we are animals and just as it is ridiculous to think of a silver back gorilla wanting another silver back to come and fuck his colony of females while he watches so is it for most of us "human animals" to think of it as anything other than ridiculous. It's abnormality is the same among both animals and humans animals alike regardless of emotions which some speculate that we humans are the only animals with emotional capabilities, I do not believe such as even in lower level primates social bonds are held for decades as well as in oceanic mammals that are social like whales and dolphins.

Dude, you're talking about voyeurism not NTR. NTR as a fetish doesn't exist in real life. You can't be a fan of NTR in real life as you cannot observe unwilliingly sexual behaviour of your gf/wife and like it and you cannot observe behavour of other couples. Incest in real life isn't a fetish as well but only rare sexual disorder. Tons of internet fetishes don't exist in real world and you shouldn't look for them to support your ideas. All your descriptions are voyeuristic. This fetish exist indeed in human society. Stop off-top here.
"Like so many, including me, patreon is our only / our biggest income source, and we don't want to get this removed, since the result could be we living on the streets. I know, this is a bit exaggurated, but deep inside our project means everything to us. And we beg Patreon to not taking it away. "
It sounds dramatic. Wonder if people would try to sue Patreon if there were mass-bans.

 

[markus T]

I personally think patreon handled this all wrong. I understand their reasons but when they decided that they were going to start enforcing this new policy ( well not really new...just never enforced), they should have started with warnings and listed exactly what needed changed with the pages instead of dishing out suspensions right away.
I think they were pretty inconsistent with how the reviews were handled, some went rather fast while others were hammered harder and took alot longer, costing the dev lots of pledges...like irredeemable and others. just my thoughts on it.

 

[Ignazzio]

From

You must be registered to see the links

patreon page:
"Here is the excerpt from the message sent to me from their staff regarding the new guidelines:

"To clarify, if there is an optional feature in which a character could engage in incestual or non-consensual activities, then the player would still have a chance to view and interact with content that is considered to be a violation of the guidelines.

If this feature were to be removed from your game so that there is no mention/depiction of incestual or non-consensual activities, then it would fall within our guidelines. This extends to all content on your creator page, direct links that lead to this type of content, and other platforms showcasing work funded through your Patreon. "

As I expected, the features that were not allowed must be removed. The changes in my game will not be reverted. The creators who have not removed their disallowed content are not safe from a suspension or ban.

Thank you for your understanding. The situation is out of my control."
If it's official message from Patreon then he's right about dev not being safe. Communicational mess

 

[markus T]

Patreon will end up shooting their selves in the foot in the end once the devs start looking for an alternative to patreon.

 

[xןʞ]

3Diddly gonna end up snitching on every other dev once his pledges take a nosedive due to removing all the stuff from his game and no other dev does yet doesn't get in further trouble, that seems like an obvious thing that will happen.

 

[Ignazzio]

3Diddly gonna end up snitching on every other dev once his pledges take a nosedive due to removing all the stuff from his game and no other dev does yet doesn't get in further trouble, that seems like an obvious thing that will happen.

Quite possible. He's not the only one but he's taking it further than other people. But if this message from Patreon is real they have some serious problem with their communication as it would mean mass ban on every incest game out there. And I have no reason to think he's lying to us. But at least it would clarify that they consider even concensual incest banable.

 

[monkeybird69]

What the fuck does it matter?!? We are taking about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS! They have no family since they AREN'T REAL! Just put in a disclaimer and they can't say shit about the content. Read the laws/rules on their site and find a backdoor/loophole to their fucking stupid bullshit. There is always a way around retards... just jingle some shiny keys.

 

[pystudios]

Dude, you're talking about voyeurism not NTR. NTR as a fetish doesn't exist in real life. You can't be a fan of NTR in real life as you cannot observe unwilliingly sexual behaviour of your gf/wife and like it and you cannot observe behavour of other couples. Incest in real life isn't a fetish as well but only rare sexual disorder. Tons of internet fetishes don't exist in real world and you shouldn't look for them to support your ideas. All your descriptions are voyeuristic. This fetish exist indeed in human society. Stop off-top here.
"Like so many, including me, patreon is our only / our biggest income source, and we don't want to get this removed, since the result could be we living on the streets. I know, this is a bit exaggurated, but deep inside our project means everything to us. And we beg Patreon to not taking it away. "
It sounds dramatic. Wonder if people would try to sue Patreon if there were mass-bans.

Incest is not a disorder as again it happens almost in all species naturally unlike voyeurism/NTR which is a disorder. No matter if it is happening in real life or is fictitious.

 

[Ignazzio]

What the fuck does it matter?!? We are taking about FICTIONAL CHARACTERS! They have no family since they AREN'T REAL! Just put in a disclaimer and they can't say shit about the content. Read the laws/rules on their site and find a backdoor/loophole to their fucking stupid bullshit. There is always a way around retards... just jingle some shiny keys.

Political correctness isn't the most friendly thing for porn. In my opinion it's just a matter of time for them to make these rules even more strict. It might be annoying as hell to look for a loopholes:/

Incest is not a disorder as again it happens almost in all species naturally unlike voyeurism/NTR which is a disorder. No matter if it is happening in real life or is fictitious.

You're mixing emotions with reality. It is a disorder and for such it would require psychological therapy in many countries. It's just how it is. Science is a bitch. You have clearly no idea what is voyeurism and NTR if you think they are the same and disorder in their context makes no sense. Stop with this offtop here. We won't agree regardless of what I will say